Regarding rain - August is the rainiest month of the year in Ohio. So that's a great time for us all to be living in tents. It wasn't our negative believing - it was the weather.
I don't think wierwille ever claimed to be a prophet ? But yeah, I think a lot of the stuff mentioned was because their mindset was to never open up with or confess any negatives, which of course became hysterically fanatical...and just not feasible, at least in an honest way.
I don't think wierwille ever claimed to be a prophet ?
AFAIK, TECHNICALLY,
that is correct. I am not aware of vpw using the words "I am a prophet".
However, he worked very hard to INSINUATE it. In fact, if you go over all the
definitions he used/made up of the "gift ministries", he phrased them so as to
make them applicable to himself.
-teacher
He called himself "THE TEACHER" long before any of us ever heard of him, and
continued that until his death.
-evangelist
He said an evangelist didn't go out and win souls. He said an evangelist inspired
the flock and got them excited so that THEY would go out and win souls.
How CONVENIENT.
-pastor
All his talk of "my people" convinced others that he cared like a shepherd cares
for his flock, rather than how the farmer cares for the Thanksgiving turkey.
-apostle
The word means "sent one." He claimed it was "someone who brings 'new light' to his
generation. It may be old light, but to his generation, it's 'new light.' "
-prophet
"One who speaks for God." vpw expected his every utterance to be treated like it
came directly from God Almighty. He certainly expected to be treated as if he
spoke for God.
So, he claimed ONE of those titles openly- and that as the definitive one,
THE Teacher, not A Teacher.
Me, I think vpw wanted to call himself all 5, but was either too cowardly or
too clever to make an open claim. So, he INSINUATED it and let the young and naive
fill in the blanks.
But yeah, I think a lot of the stuff mentioned was because their mindset was to never open up with or confess any negatives, which of course became hysterically fanatical...and just not feasible, at least in an honest way.
"One who speaks for God." vpw expected his every utterance to be treated like it
came directly from God Almighty. He certainly expected to be treated as if he
spoke for God. So, he claimed ONE of those titles openly- and that as the definitive one,
THE Teacher, not A Teacher.
As far as everything that came out of his mouth, I thought that book "Lifelines" was rather egotistical, (even in my Way Brain) making a book about all the "great" one-liners he had said througout the years. And some of them weren't original (maybe most of them, I don't know) Example - "life in the fast lane" - from the Eagles song. (like we wouldn't know that).
He got much of his conspiracy babble from a group called Liberty Lobby and their newsletter, The Spotlight. Liberty Lobby was/is a white supremacist, anti-Semitic organization whose specialty is hate-inducing, Holocaust denial propaganda. He (VPW) then spouted the talking points as if he was receiving them by revelation from God. Remember the bicentennial takeover, etc?.....That's where it came from. This has been documented on the pages of GSC.
"One who speaks for God." vpw expected his every utterance to be treated like it
came directly from God Almighty. He certainly expected to be treated as if he
spoke for God.
Case in point; in "Advanced Class '79 VP said something to the effect that if you were tightly connected to God, you could tell someone to go get a bucket of water and it would be the Word (or was it the will) of God. Back in those days, none of us felt that we could approach the spirituality of Wierwille so the implication was, if HE told US to go get a bucket of water, it would be the Word of God. Many other leaders took this bird-brained approach to their leadership and treated their people the same way. As they say, "it rolls downhill".
So, he claimed ONE of those titles openly- and that as the definitive one,
THE Teacher, not A Teacher.
Me, I think vpw wanted to call himself all 5, but was either too cowardly or
too clever to make an open claim. So, he INSINUATED it and let the young and naive
fill in the blanks.
Yeah....what you said.
How does a lazy, plagiarizing rural preacher get to the place where adulation awaits and follows his every move? Well, he crafts out a persona, a myth. Then, he works to deceive......he connives and insulates himself from accountability.
IMO, wierwille studied the art of messaging (homiletics) and knew that crafting his image was task #1.
'The Teacher' sounded the best....since he had this stolen class from Leonard (in 1953). It lulled people in.
'The man of God' shtick worked good for this corps program and notched up the adulation, indoctrination factor.
'Father in the Word' was derived from vpw's teachings and, most notably, spoken by wierwille's enablers (lcm, geer).
In wierwille's travels, he'd picked up on the techniques of marketing. Whether he learned these deceptive tactics
from the world or the devil.....we may never know. But everything in twi was leveraged by wierwille's mystique.
He "seemed" to have aspects of those five gift ministries (noted by ww)......but standing outside with a skeptical
eye and scoring vpw on the merits of accountability and scripture, wierwille had NONE.
The Scriptures do NOT say that ye shall know them by their words and fair speeches (sermons).
The Scriptures SAY that ye shall know them by their fruit.
And.....wierwille's *fruit* was THE FRUIT OF THE FLESH.
How does a lazy, plagiarizing rural preacher get to the place where adulation awaits and follows his every move? Well, he crafts out a persona, a myth. Then, he works to deceive......he connives and insulates himself from accountability.
Substitute the word "house painter" for the word "preacher" in the above paragraph, and you have Adolf Hitler.
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excathedra
seriously! when i screw up which is a lot i'm at least willing to blame myself
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skyrider
At times, it didn't even have to be a screw up.....but rather, just wanting a different outcome.
Why were the people responsible *for the believing* and NOT the "man of god for our day and time?"
THE RAIN DURING CORPS WEEK.
With wierwille and martindale on stage......the hypocrisy of it all to blame the corps for not believing
to stop the rain. Why couldn't just wierwille believe to stop it? Or, at least.....the both of THEM?
They were the bigshots.....the super-jocks in this spiritual athletic thingy.
If wierwille believed it was God's will for the rain to stop....
And, since wierwille proclaimed that this "law of believing" worked with a mathematical exactness
and a scientific precision (blah, blah, blah)....
Then, he should have been able to believe to stop the rain, right?
The corps were blamed to distract them from connecting the dots!!!
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waysider
That's why I think the "I'm still here." quote is so funny.
Wierwille stepped up to the microphone on the main stage at Rock Of Ages and announced, "I'm still here."
Uh Huh....and so was the frickin' rain.
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excathedra
he should have been struck my lightning
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WordWolf
vpw was very experienced with "do as I say and not as I do",
and a complete stranger at LEADING BY EXAMPLE.
When it came to instructing, vpw took the easy way, the
"I'll tell you what you should do", rather than the more instructive
"I'll show you what you should do."
Hypocrites in general are very good at the former, and very poor
at the latter.
"Quit smoking and give the money to twi", vpw told some of the corps,
while continuing to support a smoking addiction.
etc, etc.
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skyrider
Yeah......and one corps week (1983 or so?) the rain kept pooling ON TOP of a section of the main tent
and rather than deal with the situation and announce for every corps person near THAT SECTION TO MOVE
the speaker up front [lcm or walter, ??] kept right on teaching.
The danger factor got intense.....a couple of guys got up on top of the tent and slit a hole in the tent
to let the water out. The bigshots were numb-brained a-holes. Several corps below could have been badly
hurt by this negligence.
And, yeah.......wierwille's "law of believing" ppfffffffffftttttttttttt
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Broken Arrow
Maybe he was.
It was Don Wierwille speaking during an ordination, of all things!
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outandabout
Regarding rain - August is the rainiest month of the year in Ohio. So that's a great time for us all to be living in tents. It wasn't our negative believing - it was the weather.
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Allan
I don't think wierwille ever claimed to be a prophet ? But yeah, I think a lot of the stuff mentioned was because their mindset was to never open up with or confess any negatives, which of course became hysterically fanatical...and just not feasible, at least in an honest way.
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WordWolf
AFAIK, TECHNICALLY,
that is correct. I am not aware of vpw using the words "I am a prophet".
However, he worked very hard to INSINUATE it. In fact, if you go over all the
definitions he used/made up of the "gift ministries", he phrased them so as to
make them applicable to himself.
-teacher
He called himself "THE TEACHER" long before any of us ever heard of him, and
continued that until his death.
-evangelist
He said an evangelist didn't go out and win souls. He said an evangelist inspired
the flock and got them excited so that THEY would go out and win souls.
How CONVENIENT.
-pastor
All his talk of "my people" convinced others that he cared like a shepherd cares
for his flock, rather than how the farmer cares for the Thanksgiving turkey.
-apostle
The word means "sent one." He claimed it was "someone who brings 'new light' to his
generation. It may be old light, but to his generation, it's 'new light.' "
-prophet
"One who speaks for God." vpw expected his every utterance to be treated like it
came directly from God Almighty. He certainly expected to be treated as if he
spoke for God.
So, he claimed ONE of those titles openly- and that as the definitive one,
THE Teacher, not A Teacher.
Me, I think vpw wanted to call himself all 5, but was either too cowardly or
too clever to make an open claim. So, he INSINUATED it and let the young and naive
fill in the blanks.
Sounds about right.
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outandabout
-prophet
"One who speaks for God." vpw expected his every utterance to be treated like it
came directly from God Almighty. He certainly expected to be treated as if he
spoke for God. So, he claimed ONE of those titles openly- and that as the definitive one,
THE Teacher, not A Teacher.
As far as everything that came out of his mouth, I thought that book "Lifelines" was rather egotistical, (even in my Way Brain) making a book about all the "great" one-liners he had said througout the years. And some of them weren't original (maybe most of them, I don't know) Example - "life in the fast lane" - from the Eagles song. (like we wouldn't know that).
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waysider
He got much of his conspiracy babble from a group called Liberty Lobby and their newsletter, The Spotlight. Liberty Lobby was/is a white supremacist, anti-Semitic organization whose specialty is hate-inducing, Holocaust denial propaganda. He (VPW) then spouted the talking points as if he was receiving them by revelation from God. Remember the bicentennial takeover, etc?.....That's where it came from. This has been documented on the pages of GSC.
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Broken Arrow
Case in point; in "Advanced Class '79 VP said something to the effect that if you were tightly connected to God, you could tell someone to go get a bucket of water and it would be the Word (or was it the will) of God. Back in those days, none of us felt that we could approach the spirituality of Wierwille so the implication was, if HE told US to go get a bucket of water, it would be the Word of God. Many other leaders took this bird-brained approach to their leadership and treated their people the same way. As they say, "it rolls downhill".
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skyrider
Yeah....what you said.
How does a lazy, plagiarizing rural preacher get to the place where adulation awaits and follows his every move? Well, he crafts out a persona, a myth. Then, he works to deceive......he connives and insulates himself from accountability.
IMO, wierwille studied the art of messaging (homiletics) and knew that crafting his image was task #1.
'The Teacher' sounded the best....since he had this stolen class from Leonard (in 1953). It lulled people in.
'The man of God' shtick worked good for this corps program and notched up the adulation, indoctrination factor.
'Father in the Word' was derived from vpw's teachings and, most notably, spoken by wierwille's enablers (lcm, geer).
In wierwille's travels, he'd picked up on the techniques of marketing. Whether he learned these deceptive tactics
from the world or the devil.....we may never know. But everything in twi was leveraged by wierwille's mystique.
He "seemed" to have aspects of those five gift ministries (noted by ww)......but standing outside with a skeptical
eye and scoring vpw on the merits of accountability and scripture, wierwille had NONE.
The Scriptures do NOT say that ye shall know them by their words and fair speeches (sermons).
The Scriptures SAY that ye shall know them by their fruit.
And.....wierwille's *fruit* was THE FRUIT OF THE FLESH.
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Broken Arrow
Substitute the word "house painter" for the word "preacher" in the above paragraph, and you have Adolf Hitler.
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