Victor Barnard

[Rocky]

Do any of you remember Victor Barnard, Way Corps 14.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/24835377/investigators-maidens-of-river-road

http://www.startribune.com/local/255322011.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/24910720/pine-county-attorney-reviews-case-against-alleged-cult-leader

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/25250672/alleged-cult-leader-victor-barnard-charged-sexual-assault

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/clip/10055698/victor-barnard-manhunt

[Rocky]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/minnesota-cult-leader-charged-59-sexual-abuse-counts-maidens-article-1.1758703

http://www.wsp.wa.gov/information/releases/2014_archive/mr041614b.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/16/victor-arden-barnard_n_5161313.html

[Rocky]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2606160/Minister-fringe-sect-sexually-abused-10-handpicked-underage-maidens-isolated-camp-nearly-decade.html

[Modgellan]

Here are links to several of the other older discussions about this predator:

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/20312-river-road-fellowship-in-finlayson-minnesota/

AND:

http://www.greasespo...shared-it-here/

AND: http://www.greasespo...20477-my-story/

[Broken Arrow]

Do any of you remember Victor Barnard, Way Corps 14.

Not that it really matters, but I'm pretty sure Barnard was WC12. He was once used as an example of how someone could start home-based fellowships. In another group setting, I saw him confront leaders about how they conducted themselves publicly around women. I felt very sorry for his wife who was also present.

[WordWolf]

I am sooo very glad for you Dave that you walked that day.

Those things started bad and ended up worse As part of coming out of Momentus I confronted V.B. about bringing us into a movement that freely mixed the Bible and New Age mind games. And I told him that momentus style fellowship led to many things that were bad through the misconception that everything that came out of a person's mouth was of God, no matter how nasty.

Many of those prophecies of Pharis did not end up coming true, even though they were very substantial. When I shared mine with my Grandfather along with my then wife, all he said was, "Jeff, you have to be careful with prophecies, they don't all come from God." or something like that. And many did not come true.

Four years ago, V.B. was letting folks call him "The Word in th Flesh."

It went from bad to incredibly worse.

Among the last things that I heard from River Road Fellowship under Barnard's lead was:

1. The Lord was going to come back in 2005.

2. Barnard admitted several times in front of the whole church that, "If people only knew what I did in the ministry I'd be sent to prison." Of course in classic "cult of personality" style most just took this to mean that Barnard was brave and not to mean that he was twisted and paranoid.

3. It was o.k. for several of the young and unattached girls to vow vows of celibate bridehood to Barnard. One of them came to Twig and said verbatim, "I'm married to the Christ in Victor." IMO he was bitter at his real wife. For most of the women including my ex-wife it was normal to express envy (in a kind manner I suppose) towards Victor's ten maidens.

and

4. He was having his most trusted followers working on a system of protecting him against the inevitable physical threats to his life that he faced constantly. When they kicked me out I was plenty angry too, but I never threatened him beyond saying that I would kick his azz (figuratively speaking) and saying that I would literally mock him, and I said it to his face.

(edited for grammar)

(added in editing)

Yeah, some "haven" for ex-twiers. If they want to go from the frying pan to the fire I suppose.

I've been thinking about excellence for a while. It's not that I have any excellence to boast of that I can think of, but I'm happy to say that my conscience is clear as it pertains to TWI and my former splinter group. But I know that for myself that boasting about my own excellence is often followed by me being put in a place with more humility. I like when relearning this lesson is easy, but some of the times where it has been hard for me to relearn this make for some petty fun stories.

I've been aware from my early days with TWI that it was common for Wierwille and Martindale to boast of their own excellence. And I was aware to that one of the methods of teaching people and leading them was to convince their followers of their own excellence. These people seemed to become committed followers IMO. And of course I remember Wierwille controlling people by telling them that they would be nothing without him. Martindale's own big mouth about the Greasespot statement was calculated IMO to play once again on their own perceived debt to TWI and this perception of excellence that was part of the bread and butter of TWI control, and the related sentiment of, without us you will be nothing, as well.

But the thing is, that while my former splinter group puffed people up in the same manner, I was often pointing out that for their own perception of excellence that they were in reality only mediocre or even comical. They did not seem to like this! But as I was trying to keep them in a healthier form of reality than the one that Barnard was leading them into, I fear I only managed to earn his hatred.

I can tell you all, that after a while it was kind of sad in this respect. I found bursting their bubble became like shooting fish in a barrel, I mean all too easy. But every darn time Barnard would tell them how great he was, or convince them once again how great they were and how bad I was. It was easy to take them down a notch, but they would over and over again climb to the great heights that Barnard convinced them to live in. That is as long as they in every respect give him the preeminence of course. Once one of his thugs and his wife brought Barnard a loaf of bread and a bottle of wine, and Barnard reproved them for bringing him the bread and the wine, because as the Apostle, Barnard provided the "bread and the wine." You see, he told them they were stepping out of line because of Barnard's exalted position. This same thug moved my wife and son out of my house and told me that I was no longer welcome at fellowship until this shameful situation was resolved.

I think that Barnard teaches people to be just as harmfully and stupidly exalted as he is. That is as long as they remember to kiss his butt in almost every way. Otherwise he will be willing to destroy what he himself built in them and made them.

Now I find that seeing TWI perceptions of excellence for what they really are. Those perceptions of excellence that are built on the same perceptions of excellence that Wierwille led people into tend to not be the reality. They are just unrealistic because what they were in truth was one of Wierwille's main carrots in his manipulation of people. Of course the "stick" that went along with the "carrot" sometimes came out as people being told that without them they would end up as "greasespots" or some such thing.

Sometimes now I have to remind myself that the easy thing, to take them down a notch, is just a reflex on my part. I remind myself to think and pray. Reflexes sometimes backfire and can do more harm than good.

In order to maintain their self-deception my former splinter group had to destroy anyone that had an opinion different that the leader. Not just myself, but before I left their were five divorces among the believers. I remember another man who was willing to stand up to Barnard. Even though nobody was foolish enough to say to him that Barnard was the cause of his divorce he knew darn well who moved his wife to file for divorce. This happened about a year before I was kicked out I think. I'm sad that until after my expulsion I never really talked to this man to hear what they did to him. He told me later that he cried every night of his night security job for about one year during and after his divorce.

All the while Barnard was saying things to the believers like the locals were blessed by God just because we were around. and the youngest seem easiest to believe the false estimations of themselves that Barnard has taught them.

The young believers are programed to believe that Barnard has made them world-beaters. But Barnard is best at crushing people whose lives are in his control.

Once I saw him lying on his back in a new tent that let him look up at the stars through a nylon mesh. Two married women lied next to him with their heads on either shoulder. And the two gals' husbands had to stand there and watch this. One was the wife of the thug who moved my wife out of my house and the other was the wife of the man whose oldest daughter came to twig and said,"I'm married to the Christ in Victor." This man's wife was the one who told him that Barnard was his daughters' real father, being their father in the Word and all. Of course for some stange reason both men didn't seem to mind what happened to me. All they have to do IMO is to continue to let Barnard castrate them. But then Barnard is sure to let each one know that they are somebody now, thanks to him of course. IMO this is strictly undeserved excellence. But they sure seem to be willing to believe they are big men now, thanks to Barnard rescuing them from the Way Internationals mistakes, and being as he bills himself as Wierwille's true son.

With everybody's experiences being different in TWI it seems to me that maybe some of us might be willing to go on the record with experiences that fit this category. In TWI these things did not happen to me, even though some of the bad doctrines and counsel were definitely a factor in the times that I was a jerk. I'm attempting to go beyond the scope of any jerk-ness that I can recall committing and speak directly to deliberate cruelty and violations of basic human dignities. For me, these experiences relate directly to "River Road Fellowship" led by Victor Barnard.

Before they kicked me out I was trying to talk to my wife in order to get her to see things my way. After a while it was clear that everything that I told my wife in the privacy of my own house was being reported to leadership. After a while it got to the point where I could just tell her anything and within a day or two leadership would call a meeting in an attempt to deal with it. Sometimes I would talk to her in the evening and first thing the very next morning a teacher dealt with these things. It could have been quite maddening except that I already had seen enough to be certain that these scum-buckets were willing to do absolutely anything to mess with my head.Intimidation was the norm at these meetings. It's not that I felt intimidated by these thugs, I felt my family was under assault. So for the most part I kept a straight face and dealt with it.

Under these circumstances in a small communal fellowship they are capable of putting an intense amount of pressure on an individual. For me, every stare, every inference concerning my issues with the fellowship, and every slight just seemed to add pressure that built up over time. when I was under the influence of such intense pressure they would often try to provoke me into doing something stupid. When they realized that I was just playing with them as far as just watching them react to the things that I would tell my wife in privacy they tried to get me to accuse them of using electronic eves-dropping devices. As I considered my wife capable and willing of repeating everything that I told her in privacy I never responded to the provocation of wild accusations concerning eves-dropping. But I knew that they were willing to eves-drop if it suited them.

When my splinter group owned their camp they invited a minister named Art Katz from Minnesota down for a visit. I participated in an evening of scriptural discussion with them. After the night was over Art and his friend went back to their romm and discussed their evening in privacy. When one of the men came to tell Barnard that from his room (which was right over Katz's room in the housing) that he could hear everything that Katz and his friend said Barnard told him to go listen to everything they said. It may have been that this man was directly over Katz's friend's room, I'm not certain about that point.

So for me, I already know what they are. It is just a simple question of how far they are willing to go in their violations of basic human dignities.

I want people who may be thinking of visiting them to know these things.

(a little added in editing)

Dear Watered Garden,

Barnard is a 14th Corps grad who says of himself that he is a true son of Wierwille. Since I came to the Greasespot I have come to see considerable irony in this view of his.

After a while of living under the gun like that, I sometimes wondered if it was my problem or theirs.

To the best of my ability I've dealt with my problems, but their problems have still hurt me an awful lot. I'm sooo glad for the Greasespot Cafe!

I think that this is a very relevant thread Groucho, thank you.

My former splinter group leader, Victor Barnard took every opportunity that I can recall to emphasize his ownership over mens' wives and children ala Wierwille for sure. So even though I have no proof that he ever took it into a sexual relationship, Barnard's secrecy, paranoia, and manic belief that all men will bow to him along with him taking every opportunity that I can remember to emphasize to all the men his ownership of their wives and children means that I can relate to TWI.

To be honest, my ex-wife's behavior does leave a little question mark in my mind though.

I can only imagine how bad it must be for the men that Wierwille cuckolded however. Dealing with a questionmark is hard enough for me.

I wish that these men would find the courage to share and add their testimony to the Greasespot cafe. I am sure that they would find support. I think that they might find something to fight for aggain too. Even King David had one wife given to another man by wicked men. I think God can heal them. It may not be easy though. I wish them all the best.

PEACE,

JEFF

In my former splinter group (River Road Fellowship as led by V. Barnard) we did the whole, "We are a whole world unto ourselves, isolated in a rural area" thing and it $ucked bigtime.

Every perception of truth was tightly controlled by the supposed Apostle.

It seemed to me like over time things just got more and more warped. Eventually it was heresy to even question such "apostolic" blunders as him teaching the Lord would return in 1997, 2000, uh er...2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, and even the latest that I've heard on the grapevine 2011. Not to mention the oppressive atmosphere which led to such unfortunate things as teenage girls announcing in fellowship that,"I am married to the Christ in Victor."

So while they constantly congradulate themselves among themselves it seems pretty obvious to me that they only grew more dangerous and absurd as time went on. And I really don't think they'd openly come around GSC to state their case either, but they'd say it was because of all they "unbelief" here at GSC I'm sure. But I am certain it is because that even though they imagine themselves to be winners that they would simply be confronted for what they really are.

I feel justified in my concerns for Caleb and his fellows.

[Rocky]

Not that it really matters, but I'm pretty sure Barnard was WC12. He was once used as an example of how someone could start home-based fellowships. In another group setting, I saw him confront leaders about how they conducted themselves publicly around women. I felt very sorry for his wife who was also present.

Right, it doesn't particularly matter to me, but Kark Kahler says he and Barnard were in the same corps.

Karl has spoken on the phone with Minnesota Public Radio and

Fox 9 reporter Tom Lyden.

[RottieGrrrl]

Interesting link Rocky

Fox 9 reporter Tom Lyden.

I see The Way and Wierwille's fine legacy live on. Sheesh. Thank goodness I'm no longer associated with any offshoot of this group. I'd be ashamed of it's history. And yeah, this guy sounds like a cross between David Koresh and Warren Jeffs.

Edited April 18, 2014 by RottieGrrrl

[cc ray]

I knew Victor from Rush City. Once he started promoting momentus - our differences became evident. In a last ditch effort, I asked him to help my now ex, then husband. Turns out V was impressed with my ex hubby - that he had the guts to have girlfriends, and drink, and drugs, and unethical money dealings. It was clearly my fault for not being a good christian woman that he HAD to do all those things. I tried to get folks here to quit, and find a real church. Some did, some did not. V actually told my ex, he wanted to go to strip clubs too, but was too afraid of getting caught. He should have kept that in mind, and kept it in his pants! When my kid not yet 3 trys to comfort me saying not to worry, dad was just drunk, he would be home in a few days....proof...total wake up call... I needed out! It only took 6 months for the divorce to go through start to finish - in Minnesota, very very fast. My new life started November 1996.

If anyone knows his whereabouts, turn in him.

If you can't....tell me, and I will turn him in.

An after thought here, when they were just getting into personal prophecy, I was there, it was his wife that was to be the apostle....not him! How did that change? Guess another reason he didn't want me around.

Edited April 18, 2014 by cc ray

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Hi folks...haven't been here for quite awhile. The Barnard issue drew me back out of curiosity.

I listened to the Fox news report regarding Barnard and how he came out of TWI...As the Fox news reporter referred to VPW as Dr Victor Wier-wile, I couldn't help but chuckle...and it's only fitting that TWI has finally found it's proper definition in it's historical context as a "cult of adultery" LOL!

Edited April 18, 2014 by GrouchoMarxJr

[Twinky]

My thoughts exactly, Groucho.

[RottieGrrrl]

I saw the news report too, and while I did laugh at the same things you did, Groucho (Wiere-WHILE and the CULTure of adultery) I found it rather annoying that the news reporters rather dismissed the adultery in "The Way" as between "consenting" adults. That was their words, wasn't it?

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Yes...They actually downplayed TWI's adultery a bit because they claimed it was between consenting adults...Actually there were many children who were abused in TWI...both sexually and in other ways. If you ever spent any time at Rome City and witnessed the way kids were treated...it sends shivers down my spine today when I think about it.

[Rocky]

Yes...They actually downplayed TWI's adultery a bit because they claimed it was between consenting adults...Actually there were many children who were abused in TWI...both sexually and in other ways. If you ever spent any time at Rome City and witnessed the way kids were treated...it sends shivers down my spine today when I think about it.

Karl nailed it in quotes in this story.

[Rocky]

Having both a daughter and a granddaughter, here's how I feel about Victor Barnard...

[excathedra]

this is just too f'ing weird the 19 yr old over-achiever so-to-speak, mom who is mentally ill, then he gets in the way. then he becomes the man of god who can't hurt girls by having sex with them because well he is the man of god

it's just beyond horrific. if only we had been able to get wierwille before the bastud loser died

i feel many splinter nutcases are guilty - not necessarily of raping young girls - but definitely raping minds just like father in the word

--

ps. if karl was 12th and this guy was 14th, they would have worked side by side

--

i'm s till freaked out about this

[Steve Lortz]

this is just too f'ing weird the 19 yr old over-achiever so-to-speak, mom who is mentally ill, then he gets in the way. then he becomes the man of god who can't hurt girls by having sex with them because well he is the man of god

it's just beyond horrific. if only we had been able to get wierwille before the bastud loser died

i feel many splinter nutcases are guilty - not necessarily of raping young girls - but definitely raping minds just like father in the word

--

ps. if karl was 12th and this guy was 14th, they would have worked side by side

--

i'm s till freaked out about this

Me too...

Love,

Steve

[Modgellan]

For those who asked, it has been confirmed both Karl and Barnard were 14th Corps,

[cc ray]

My ex....has a habbit of lying to the state about money for child support, hiding it in either his girlfriend's or his wife' name (i.e his company cuts them checks for his money). Victor may be doing the same thing. I found a business in Spokane in Steph's name (not sure if it is the same Steph), but my ex taught Victor well in the aspect of do as you damn well please, hide the money. I wonder if cops follow the money that will lead them to capture this guy. Also, I wonder if the names of the people supporting him were published....well if folks at my work knew someone there was hiding a pervert - the pressure would be turned up!

[excathedra]

thanks for your insightful post, cc

[excathedra]

is there a post missing from karl k

[Yanagisawa]

http://redemptionpictures.com/2014/02/28/bill-gothard-homeschool-cult/

These guys all have the same playbook.

[Allan]

http://redemptionpictures.com/2014/02/28/bill-gothard-homeschool-cult/

These guys all have the same playbook.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Allan

[Modgellan]

Here is the actual legal complaint and charges. Scroll past thelegal terminology of the 59 counts if you want,, and read the Statement of Probable Cause towards the bottom.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/218969646/Barnard-Complaint

[cc ray]

After reading the entire document....Why did it take 2 years to issue a warrant? WTF?