Wayfers are known for plastic smiles and vacant stares.
Wayfers pride themselves on having "no fear". Fear is an emotion.
By denying that they feel fear, are they in the process blocking out, or desensitizing feeling of other emotions as well?
Yeah.....they "claim" to have no fear and yet, are stifled by it. Heck, many are AFRAID
to buck twi's ridiculous mandates or ask questions without retribution. Nice prison.
The control methods of cults:
Many academics and observers of cult phenomena, such as psychologist Philip G. Zimbardo of Stanford, agree on four criteria to define a cult. The first is behavior control, i.e., monitoring of where you go and what you do. The second is information control, such as discouraging members from reading criticism of the group. The third is thought control, placing sharp limits on doctrinal questioning. The fourth is emotional control—using humiliation or guilt. Yet at times these traits can also be detected within mainstream faiths. So I would add two more categories: financial control and extreme leadership.
"By denying that they feel fear, are they in the process blocking out, or desensitizing feeling of other emotions as well?"
In my opinion the answer is "yes". When a close friend of mine died, I was castigated for wanting to mourn. Instead, I was *advised* to immediately (within a week) take the Dealing With The Adversary class so I could move on to more important (ministry) business. Emotions serve a very real and functional place in one's life. By denying that function, The Way was usurping our individual personalities, programming us to a life of conformity.
Might individuals in the Way be confusing suppressing emotion with managing emotion?
Absolutely. We were specifically taught, in classes such as The Renewed Mind and Dealing With The Adversary, to ignore our emotions and, instead, replace them with canned verbiage and phrases. That was a large part of the concept behind retemory cards......Feeling depressed? No problem. Simply ignore the very real chemical imbalances in your brain and recite card #47 a few times....If that doesn't work, it must be your own fault for not believing, not speaking in tongues enough, not abundantly sharing enough, not studying the word enough, etc.
I felt fear plenty of times.....and I had to swallow it and pretend because it was fear of them. I don't think I'm the only one. Usually it was worst when a leader type would say..."I want to see you after the meeting". There are other things that would set it off too. One of my friends used to worry herself sick, or nearly so, if she let herself think about whether she was doing whatever it was that she was supposed to be doing well enough.....did she meet the standard.
I felt fear plenty of times.....and I had to swallow it and pretend because it was fear of them. I don't think I'm the only one. Usually it was worst when a leader type would say..."I want to see you after the meeting". There are other things that would set it off too. One of my friends used to worry herself sick, or nearly so, if she let herself think about whether she was doing whatever it was that she was supposed to be doing well enough.....did she meet the standard.
That's what bullying does to you. They were masters of the art.
"By denying that they feel fear, are they in the process blocking out, or desensitizing feeling of other emotions as well?"
In my opinion the answer is "yes". When a close friend of mine died, I was castigated for wanting to mourn. Instead, I was *advised* to immediately (within a week) take the Dealing With The Adversary class so I could move on to more important (ministry) business. Emotions serve a very real and functional place in one's life. By denying that function, The Way was usurping our individual personalities, programming us to a life of conformity.
I had a similar experience when a relative died. (There's no need for sadness when this life will be forgotten in eternity.)
Emotion is considered weakness. (Unless it's "spiritual anger").
Might individuals in the Way be confusing suppressing emotion with managing emotion?
John 11:35
Jesus wept.
Gotta ignore those Gospels, you know. Bad example Jesus was showing. The man was said to
have "compassion" on strangers, and wept with grief and/or similar emotions- which he
was allowed to feel.
In twi, the only thing allowed to BE felt was ANGER. vpw and lcm exemplified anger to
face-to-face audiences, with vpw teaching lcm how to do it, and lcm codifying it by
coining the phrase "spiritual anger" to justify yelling at others rather than controlling
his mind and feeling the anger but not letting it control him.
Yeah it wasn't a good teaching until someone raised their voice.
The yelling could be a bad experience. Most people understand that. In "the world", expressing anger as was down in the Way is frowned upon.
It was much harder to tolerate the silence. No reaction to stimuli. Staring off into space for hours followed by witnessing smiles and then some yelling while holding a bible.
But the silence was the worst. IMO.
Yelling at a wayfer has little effect. They don't seem to have any emotion, what do they feel? Are their internal senses completely gone?
It takes a conscious effort to suppress one's emotions on a continuous basis. That's why the struggle for likemindedness is endless and largely futile.
It takes a conscious effort to suppress one's emotions on a continuous basis. That's why the struggle for likemindedness is endless and largely futile.
Hmmm, so many good observations here, and yes, I would agree it's LARGELY futile, but they get enough people to stick around to support their small little cliquish offshoots.
I still remember back in 1991 or 1992 when I first attended the local offshoot, after being out of the mix since 1981. I remember going to this guys house and a whole string of kids coming out of the house, about 8 of them, all in line, leaving, like little zombies. They had been at a sleepover. I said hello to them and a couple of them just threw me blank stares and trudged on. I mean, that was WEIRD. So weird I still shudder at that mental image to this day.
I was going to say that regarding waysiders comment, that suppressing ones emotions is possible until real life hits them in the face. Case in point one of the longtime local offshooters, actually one hell of a nice guy, his son is in county jail on first degree murder charges after he went on a senseless stabbing frenzy in a local dance bar a couple of years ago. It hasn't gone to trial yet, but it will be high profile when it does. His dad is paying for a decent defense attorney (there goes his retirement fund) and his son's defense attorney has been quoted as saying, "This is a guy who was raised in church, and goes to church 3 times a week and teaches a youth ministry) okay... It's not exactly a church, and the "youth" ministry is just a bunch of wayfer kids, but I digress..
I saw all the "bigshots" from that local fellowship walking out of the courtroom on TV Sunday morning on the news,and I'm really wondering if this HUGE HORRIBLE tragedy is going to wake them up or affect them at all. I can't imagine what his defense will be. But I'm really wondering if this is going to crack the pretend world they live in, or if they will just go on in their little bubble.
Funny how the emotion Anger was acceptable - even desirable, as it showed how "spiritual" you are. As long as you were angry at the "right" things, like the sloppiness of the Household. Not at the injustice of the world, or the latest war, or suchlike. Oh no.
But emotions like Joy, Happiness, Sorrow, Remorse, Excitement - were all dismissed. Unless it was the Joy of serving in some way task like dishroom, event set-up, snow clearance,etc. These are of course to be enjoyed without question. But the Joy of living in a beautiful sunshiny day, or just smelling the flowers...you must have something better to do!
My Corps sis was allowed to go someplace (Florida?) for her grandfather's funeral - as long as she took someone from HQ with her.
Another Corps sis was not allowed to go to her sister's wedding (somewhere nearer than Florida). She'd have plenty of opportunity to see her sis and her new husband when she'd finished her in rez training. (In retrospect - yeah right, sure she would.)
Great witness, huh? Even Jesus took time to go to a wedding; and there's no indication he went because he was related or even friends with the wedding party - it seems more the cultural thing of inviting the whole village.
Wow Twinky, your post reminded me of a couple of memories. Sigh.
I remember when I was first taking PFAL when I was, what 17 or 18 years old. One of the guys in our local fellowship popped in at the beginning, before the class started, and the woman who was "under-shepherding" me was mad at him because he was going out of state to visit his mother, because his father had just died. She told me he should stick around and be with his brothers and sisters HERE. I was so confused by that. Hardly anybody went up to console the guy. I wanted to but felt it was wrong. What an example!
Not so long after that, my "twig" leader, a young lady, told me that she doesn't believe there should be any social security for old people because everybody should plan and save for their retirement. That troubled me too, but I accepted it as gospel and repeated it to my dad. So my Unchristian, mean dad said to me, "Sombody has GOT to be telling you these things because I KNOW you and I KNOW you are not that cold hearted." Wow, that stopped me in my tracks.
Skip ahead to around 1997 or so when I was attending a local fellowship from a local offshoot. Some how we got around to talking about plane crashes (there may have been one in the news) and I mentioned that’s why I don’t like flying. Well boy o boy I got jumped on for that. They ALL told me all I had to do was take out my bible and start reading. I just stared at them in stunned disbelief. What were these people, freaking ZOMBIES? Like they would really do that.
A year later, the “leader” of that fellowship told me that she had been to Scottland, and they learned things about “fear” In other words it’s okay to be afraid if you are in a plane that’s crashing. Wow. She had to go to Scotland to learn that?
I’m just shaking my head it took me so long to wake up, but in a way it was a good experience. I really have my BS antennas up on the occasion I do attend a real church now. But I gotta tell you, in a REAL church I don’t hear half as much BS as I do in the wayfer offshoots.
Oh, by the way, on the Jesus wedding thing, I heard some TV preacher say he thinks it was one of the apostles wedding. He pointed out how he came to that conclusion, but I forget. But he didn't choose the apostles til later right? Okay, now I'm confused and getting
Hmmm, so many good observations here, and yes, I would agree it's LARGELY futile, but they get enough people to stick around to support their small little cliquish offshoots.
I still remember back in 1991 or 1992 when I first attended the local offshoot, after being out of the mix since 1981. I remember going to this guys house and a whole string of kids coming out of the house, about 8 of them, all in line, leaving, like little zombies. They had been at a sleepover. I said hello to them and a couple of them just threw me blank stares and trudged on. I mean, that was WEIRD. So weird I still shudder at that mental image to this day.
I was going to say that regarding waysiders comment, that suppressing ones emotions is possible until real life hits them in the face. Case in point one of the longtime local offshooters, actually one hell of a nice guy, his son is in county jail on first degree murder charges after he went on a senseless stabbing frenzy in a local dance bar a couple of years ago. It hasn't gone to trial yet, but it will be high profile when it does. His dad is paying for a decent defense attorney (there goes his retirement fund) and his son's defense attorney has been quoted as saying, "This is a guy who was raised in church, and goes to church 3 times a week and teaches a youth ministry) okay... It's not exactly a church, and the "youth" ministry is just a bunch of wayfer kids, but I digress..
I saw all the "bigshots" from that local fellowship walking out of the courtroom on TV Sunday morning on the news,and I'm really wondering if this HUGE HORRIBLE tragedy is going to wake them up or affect them at all. I can't imagine what his defense will be. But I'm really wondering if this is going to crack the pretend world they live in, or if they will just go on in their little bubble.
vpw never actually FELT the emotions the same way normal people feel them.
Sociopaths don't. vpw, more often, found emotions as TOOLS to be used to
get people to feel and think the way he wanted them to. That's why he
learned to FAKE them and to deliver a PERFORMANCE.
Think about it-we've seen accounts of people having a casual chat with
him, him turning, screaming at someone for a moment, then INSTANTLY
chatting casually as if the screaming didn't happen. Even an actor
who does that needs a moment to come back to the calm self- since the
actor feels the emotions to a degree when faking them. Only someone
not feeling the emotions could switch between displays of them like
channels on a television. vpw saw that as a useful skill to cultivate-
so he did. It didn't fool the people closest to him, but young,
naive hippies, they were fooled when he didn't let them see the man
behind the curtain.
vpw didn't feel healthy emotions- but, like any bully, he felt frustration
when things didn't go his way, and, like any bully, he lashed out.
LOTS of people saw him do that for little or no reason. lcm DOCUMENTED it
in his book PRAISING vpw. lcm learned to do all of that FROM vpw.
As someone from a jock subculture, lcm was perfect for grooming to be
heartless that way- don't feel any pain or compassion- there's no
crying in baseball and no compassion on the field. You can be loud
and boisterous all you want, and be a two-fisted partier and a
jock-type guy. That's it. So lcm buried everything except that.
Between lcm and vpw, twi all learned to do that as well- with some
leaders imitating them, and some local leaders NOT- and being
punished for it... The rank-and-file were taught it as well,
with some swallowing it and some not. The handful who ALWAYS
swallowed it seem to still be twi'ers, or ex-twi'ers who still teach
vpw never actually FELT the emotions the same way normal people feel them.
Sociopaths don't. vpw, more often, found emotions as TOOLS to be used to
get people to feel and think the way he wanted them to. That's why he
learned to FAKE them and to deliver a PERFORMANCE.
The handful who ALWAYS
swallowed it seem to still be twi'ers, or ex-twi'ers who still teach
that the vpw way was THE path.
These are very interesting revelations. In some cases I do believe that some people (the father of this guy that got in trouble for instance)are not so rigid in Wierwille's belief, but just have to much of a comfort zone built up there. I know he didn't go along with certain things they did, like paying 25,000 bucks for Geers class, but when I asked him why he didn't leave, he told me he needed those people.
I am guessing that partly because so much of his life and family has been devoted to this "way culture" and group, where else would he go? I don't know. I think it would have been better had he gone to some other church. Let his kids get an idea of REAL outreach and REAL ministries. Not an endless parade of classes and the only "outreach" their "ministry" does trying to get 3 new people so they can run another class.
But yeah, you described the offshooters pretty well. I still shake my head at their beliefs, when all it takes is a cursory glance at the bible to refute them. ie: when I left they were still teaching that God WAS NOT responsible for the flood, the devil was, and the angel of death (Passover) was really a devil spirit.. Don't talk to Jesus that could prove to be fatal...I wonder if they still teach that Mary was not a virgin when she gave birth to Christ? But, again, I digress (as Sophia used to say on golden girls) :offtopic:/>/>
Hi exie!! I will, I just emailed you with the story and a hello. (I forget how to do a private topic) I know I was thinking about you too. I miss your ha ha ha ha ha ha ha stuff. :lol:/> Okay I'll get out now please excuse me. This is an interesting thread and I don't mean to disrupt it!
Funny how the emotion Anger was acceptable - even desirable, as it showed how "spiritual" you are.
One's spirituality was considered in direct proportion to how loud and angry they could sound during a teaching. We would walk away from those teachings saying, "Wow! He really 'nailed' it"!
the troubling part about this, at least to me, is how the Bots (generally speaking) would welcome a Government which would march "heretics" and "unbelievers" into death camps and such. Surely they would wash their feet in the blood of the wicked..
has this particular mindset changed in any way? If it has, I will retract my words.
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krys
Like Stepford folks?
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skyrider
Yeah.....they "claim" to have no fear and yet, are stifled by it. Heck, many are AFRAID
to buck twi's ridiculous mandates or ask questions without retribution. Nice prison.
The control methods of cults:
The full article is here --- Untoward Secrecy
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Bolshevik
Interesting, thanks Skyrider.
I'm wondering if there are unintended effects of the "no-fear doctrine" on the individual's mind?
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waysider
"By denying that they feel fear, are they in the process blocking out, or desensitizing feeling of other emotions as well?"
In my opinion the answer is "yes". When a close friend of mine died, I was castigated for wanting to mourn. Instead, I was *advised* to immediately (within a week) take the Dealing With The Adversary class so I could move on to more important (ministry) business. Emotions serve a very real and functional place in one's life. By denying that function, The Way was usurping our individual personalities, programming us to a life of conformity.
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Bolshevik
I had a similar experience when a relative died. (There's no need for sadness when this life will be forgotten in eternity.)
Emotion is considered weakness. (Unless it's "spiritual anger").
Might individuals in the Way be confusing suppressing emotion with managing emotion?
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waysider
Absolutely. We were specifically taught, in classes such as The Renewed Mind and Dealing With The Adversary, to ignore our emotions and, instead, replace them with canned verbiage and phrases. That was a large part of the concept behind retemory cards......Feeling depressed? No problem. Simply ignore the very real chemical imbalances in your brain and recite card #47 a few times....If that doesn't work, it must be your own fault for not believing, not speaking in tongues enough, not abundantly sharing enough, not studying the word enough, etc.
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krys
I felt fear plenty of times.....and I had to swallow it and pretend because it was fear of them. I don't think I'm the only one. Usually it was worst when a leader type would say..."I want to see you after the meeting". There are other things that would set it off too. One of my friends used to worry herself sick, or nearly so, if she let herself think about whether she was doing whatever it was that she was supposed to be doing well enough.....did she meet the standard.
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waysider
That's what bullying does to you. They were masters of the art.
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WordWolf
John 11:35
Jesus wept.
Gotta ignore those Gospels, you know. Bad example Jesus was showing. The man was said to
have "compassion" on strangers, and wept with grief and/or similar emotions- which he
was allowed to feel.
In twi, the only thing allowed to BE felt was ANGER. vpw and lcm exemplified anger to
face-to-face audiences, with vpw teaching lcm how to do it, and lcm codifying it by
coining the phrase "spiritual anger" to justify yelling at others rather than controlling
his mind and feeling the anger but not letting it control him.
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Bolshevik
Yeah it wasn't a good teaching until someone raised their voice.
The yelling could be a bad experience. Most people understand that. In "the world", expressing anger as was down in the Way is frowned upon.
It was much harder to tolerate the silence. No reaction to stimuli. Staring off into space for hours followed by witnessing smiles and then some yelling while holding a bible.
But the silence was the worst. IMO.
Yelling at a wayfer has little effect. They don't seem to have any emotion, what do they feel? Are their internal senses completely gone?
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waysider
It takes a conscious effort to suppress one's emotions on a continuous basis. That's why the struggle for likemindedness is endless and largely futile.
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RottieGrrrl
Hmmm, so many good observations here, and yes, I would agree it's LARGELY futile, but they get enough people to stick around to support their small little cliquish offshoots.
I still remember back in 1991 or 1992 when I first attended the local offshoot, after being out of the mix since 1981. I remember going to this guys house and a whole string of kids coming out of the house, about 8 of them, all in line, leaving, like little zombies. They had been at a sleepover. I said hello to them and a couple of them just threw me blank stares and trudged on. I mean, that was WEIRD. So weird I still shudder at that mental image to this day.
I was going to say that regarding waysiders comment, that suppressing ones emotions is possible until real life hits them in the face. Case in point one of the longtime local offshooters, actually one hell of a nice guy, his son is in county jail on first degree murder charges after he went on a senseless stabbing frenzy in a local dance bar a couple of years ago. It hasn't gone to trial yet, but it will be high profile when it does. His dad is paying for a decent defense attorney (there goes his retirement fund) and his son's defense attorney has been quoted as saying, "This is a guy who was raised in church, and goes to church 3 times a week and teaches a youth ministry) okay... It's not exactly a church, and the "youth" ministry is just a bunch of wayfer kids, but I digress..
I saw all the "bigshots" from that local fellowship walking out of the courtroom on TV Sunday morning on the news,and I'm really wondering if this HUGE HORRIBLE tragedy is going to wake them up or affect them at all. I can't imagine what his defense will be. But I'm really wondering if this is going to crack the pretend world they live in, or if they will just go on in their little bubble.
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Twinky
Funny how the emotion Anger was acceptable - even desirable, as it showed how "spiritual" you are. As long as you were angry at the "right" things, like the sloppiness of the Household. Not at the injustice of the world, or the latest war, or suchlike. Oh no.
But emotions like Joy, Happiness, Sorrow, Remorse, Excitement - were all dismissed. Unless it was the Joy of serving in some way task like dishroom, event set-up, snow clearance,etc. These are of course to be enjoyed without question. But the Joy of living in a beautiful sunshiny day, or just smelling the flowers...you must have something better to do!
My Corps sis was allowed to go someplace (Florida?) for her grandfather's funeral - as long as she took someone from HQ with her.
Another Corps sis was not allowed to go to her sister's wedding (somewhere nearer than Florida). She'd have plenty of opportunity to see her sis and her new husband when she'd finished her in rez training. (In retrospect - yeah right, sure she would.)
Great witness, huh? Even Jesus took time to go to a wedding; and there's no indication he went because he was related or even friends with the wedding party - it seems more the cultural thing of inviting the whole village.
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RottieGrrrl
Wow Twinky, your post reminded me of a couple of memories. Sigh.
I remember when I was first taking PFAL when I was, what 17 or 18 years old. One of the guys in our local fellowship popped in at the beginning, before the class started, and the woman who was "under-shepherding" me was mad at him because he was going out of state to visit his mother, because his father had just died. She told me he should stick around and be with his brothers and sisters HERE. I was so confused by that. Hardly anybody went up to console the guy. I wanted to but felt it was wrong. What an example!
Not so long after that, my "twig" leader, a young lady, told me that she doesn't believe there should be any social security for old people because everybody should plan and save for their retirement. That troubled me too, but I accepted it as gospel and repeated it to my dad. So my Unchristian, mean dad said to me, "Sombody has GOT to be telling you these things because I KNOW you and I KNOW you are not that cold hearted." Wow, that stopped me in my tracks.
Skip ahead to around 1997 or so when I was attending a local fellowship from a local offshoot. Some how we got around to talking about plane crashes (there may have been one in the news) and I mentioned that’s why I don’t like flying. Well boy o boy I got jumped on for that. They ALL told me all I had to do was take out my bible and start reading. I just stared at them in stunned disbelief. What were these people, freaking ZOMBIES? Like they would really do that.
A year later, the “leader” of that fellowship told me that she had been to Scottland, and they learned things about “fear” In other words it’s okay to be afraid if you are in a plane that’s crashing. Wow. She had to go to Scotland to learn that?
I’m just shaking my head it took me so long to wake up, but in a way it was a good experience. I really have my BS antennas up on the occasion I do attend a real church now. But I gotta tell you, in a REAL church I don’t hear half as much BS as I do in the wayfer offshoots.
Oh, by the way, on the Jesus wedding thing, I heard some TV preacher say he thinks it was one of the apostles wedding. He pointed out how he came to that conclusion, but I forget. But he didn't choose the apostles til later right? Okay, now I'm confused and getting
Sorry!
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WordWolf
vpw never actually FELT the emotions the same way normal people feel them.
Sociopaths don't. vpw, more often, found emotions as TOOLS to be used to
get people to feel and think the way he wanted them to. That's why he
learned to FAKE them and to deliver a PERFORMANCE.
Think about it-we've seen accounts of people having a casual chat with
him, him turning, screaming at someone for a moment, then INSTANTLY
chatting casually as if the screaming didn't happen. Even an actor
who does that needs a moment to come back to the calm self- since the
actor feels the emotions to a degree when faking them. Only someone
not feeling the emotions could switch between displays of them like
channels on a television. vpw saw that as a useful skill to cultivate-
so he did. It didn't fool the people closest to him, but young,
naive hippies, they were fooled when he didn't let them see the man
behind the curtain.
vpw didn't feel healthy emotions- but, like any bully, he felt frustration
when things didn't go his way, and, like any bully, he lashed out.
LOTS of people saw him do that for little or no reason. lcm DOCUMENTED it
in his book PRAISING vpw. lcm learned to do all of that FROM vpw.
As someone from a jock subculture, lcm was perfect for grooming to be
heartless that way- don't feel any pain or compassion- there's no
crying in baseball and no compassion on the field. You can be loud
and boisterous all you want, and be a two-fisted partier and a
jock-type guy. That's it. So lcm buried everything except that.
Between lcm and vpw, twi all learned to do that as well- with some
leaders imitating them, and some local leaders NOT- and being
punished for it... The rank-and-file were taught it as well,
with some swallowing it and some not. The handful who ALWAYS
swallowed it seem to still be twi'ers, or ex-twi'ers who still teach
that the vpw way was THE path.
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RottieGrrrl
These are very interesting revelations. In some cases I do believe that some people (the father of this guy that got in trouble for instance)are not so rigid in Wierwille's belief, but just have to much of a comfort zone built up there. I know he didn't go along with certain things they did, like paying 25,000 bucks for Geers class, but when I asked him why he didn't leave, he told me he needed those people.
I am guessing that partly because so much of his life and family has been devoted to this "way culture" and group, where else would he go? I don't know. I think it would have been better had he gone to some other church. Let his kids get an idea of REAL outreach and REAL ministries. Not an endless parade of classes and the only "outreach" their "ministry" does trying to get 3 new people so they can run another class.
But yeah, you described the offshooters pretty well. I still shake my head at their beliefs, when all it takes is a cursory glance at the bible to refute them. ie: when I left they were still teaching that God WAS NOT responsible for the flood, the devil was, and the angel of death (Passover) was really a devil spirit.. Don't talk to Jesus that could prove to be fatal...I wonder if they still teach that Mary was not a virgin when she gave birth to Christ? But, again, I digress (as Sophia used to say on golden girls) :offtopic:/>/>
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Bolshevik
If someone is suppressing emotions/feelings . . . they're denying information about themselves and the environment to their mind, no?
Would this be an altered perception? A lost ability?
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excathedra
rottiebabygirl hi!
i hope you can keep us updated about this tragic court case
--
i felt that when i was in the motorcoach staring into these dead eyes, not even knowing how i got into that "position"
--
i can tell you, one does suppress emotions when having been sexually abused as a child and so on....
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RottieGrrrl
Hi exie!! I will, I just emailed you with the story and a hello. (I forget how to do a private topic) I know I was thinking about you too. I miss your ha ha ha ha ha ha ha stuff. :lol:/> Okay I'll get out now please excuse me. This is an interesting thread and I don't mean to disrupt it!
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Broken Arrow
I would predict the latter.
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Broken Arrow
One's spirituality was considered in direct proportion to how loud and angry they could sound during a teaching. We would walk away from those teachings saying, "Wow! He really 'nailed' it"!
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outandabout
Yeah, yell and scream at people, that sure is doing I Cor. 13. "Love is patient, love is kind" etc. Maybe the screamers should have read some of that.
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Twinky
Outie...I thought "love" was all about confronting weakness and being spiritually angry about it? :unsure:/>
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Ham
the troubling part about this, at least to me, is how the Bots (generally speaking) would welcome a Government which would march "heretics" and "unbelievers" into death camps and such. Surely they would wash their feet in the blood of the wicked..
has this particular mindset changed in any way? If it has, I will retract my words.
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