SIDE NOTE RE CATHOLICS: Some of the nicest people I have known are Catholics, and many of the nicest ones in twi and ex-twi for me (then and now) had been raised Catholics. Judging from "you can tell a tree by its fruit" logic, it seems to me that Catholics are doing things truly right. That's one of the reasons I became a Catholic. I find Catholics are the ones in the world who care more about living as the Lord directs.
My Bible knowledge: I ras raised going to a Unitarian church, and there were only sermons on living nicely, nothing Bible. At home on Christmas and Easter, Dad would read the Bible (without commentary) So I trusted the Bible was true, but had no history with it, other than reading it, so I was prime gullible candidate for the "explanations" pandered by twi.
And because I was raised to simply believe what was written in the Bible, it never occurred to me that someone would use it for their own personal gain.
SIDE NOTE RE CATHOLICS: Some of the nicest people I have known are Catholics, and many of the nicest ones in twi and ex-twi for me (then and now) had been raised Catholics. Judging from "you can tell a tree by its fruit" logic, it seems to me that Catholics are doing things truly right. That's one of the reasons I became a Catholic. I find Catholics are the ones in the world who care more about living as the Lord directs.
(snip)
I just stuck to answering the question.
I've met a number of quality Christians since then, many of them Catholics.
I won't agree with them on doctrine, but I have no problem working side-by-side with
them, providing I'm not required to call myself Catholic or agree with them doctrinally.
The ones I met at the parish and school I grew up with, however, are pretty fossilized.
That's the reason the adjoining parish is getting all the active Catholics from the
neighborhood- they're a Franciscan parish and have been getting things done for decades.
There's a cheerful feel to church there (compared to the other) and the laity are busy
doing things-like feeding the hungry and so on. They're also the reason I was feeling
positive when I heard Bergoglio was now the new Pope. He's justified all the good impressions
people have had, and I think he's the best thing to happen to the Catholic church in decades-
and that includes Pope John Paul II whom I also like.
My story is a little different from WordWolf's, although we had similar upbringing (RC in a practicing RC family).
I, also, had not read the Bible. Catholic services include three Scripture readings (an OT section, something from an epistle, and then something from the Gospels). OCCASIONALLY, the sermon would actually involve some exegesis of those verses, though, usually, the sermon was more about general topics and barely touched on the prescribed readings for the day. SO...my knowledge of the Bible was so limited, I just assumed that Catholic doctrine coincided with it.
I was witnessed to while in graduate school. I attended the campus RC church, being involved in the lay ministry and choir. A couple of students asked me if I wished to attend a Bible fellowship. My feeling was, things are going well in my life; maybe it's time to learn about the Bible. :)
The fundamentalist aspect of The Way appealed to my scientific mind (and still does). So, I abandoned RC doctrine years ago, and haven't turned back.
As for what seems to be a side thread going here, I know wonderful Catholics, wonderful Mormons, wonderful Hindus, wonderful Jehovah's Witnesses, and wonderful Way (and ex-Way) folks. I don't agree with most of them on doctrine, but I consider them friends. (I've also met Catholics, Mormons, Hindus, JWs and Wayfers who are total jerks.)
Quite a lot I think. I grew up Catholic (didn't everybody) and I always believed the bible was the word of God. Growing up my grandparents (thank you) instilled a set of values and a sense of believing, in God and the bible and it stuck with me through my adulesence. I read the word, but not so much because of what the catholics taught me. I would turn to it for enlightenment and understanding and I think it helped me get through the dark periods in my life.
As far as PFAL rocking my boat? If you mean turning it upside down, no not really! It made a lot of sense to me, and it seemed to line up with my own beliefs. The catholics never really taught the bible. It rarely came up in mass as I remember it. Looking back now, once I renounced my religion face to face with a priest because I told him I felt I had to be released from the catholic faith, if only I had the sense to not sign that card, I would have been alright.
I hope you will suffer through a round about way explanation of what was my bible knowledge previous to way days..
my dad died when I was in something like the 8th grade. One day I was looking through some old material in his desk in the basement.. among which was a Holy Bible (which was so old that the cover had rotted off).
I had no idea what I was reading.. the new testament was missing, except for a page that claimed it was a Masonic Lodge version.. of *something*.
The still readable pages were probably from Leviticus. I read about cutting up birds.. disembowling goats and cattle.. for a while, I wondered if my dad was involved in some kind of satanic worship or something..
Before I took the class, they told me I had to have a KJV, so I went to the second hand store and bought this big old clunky book table kind of thing. It was really sort of beautiful in its own way.
................It went over like a fart in Sunday School.
I had hardly read the bible before pfal. I think it had huge impact that VP treated the bible like it was a legal document. Chapter and verse. Rightly divided. I'm not saying he was 100% correct. I'm saying that by treating the bible like a rule book, he revealed a lot, not only about the bible but about his critics as well. Most Christians DO treat the bible as an aid to devotion. Personally, I think he made a better case for JCING than his critics did for JCIG.
I used to have a fascination about catholics before twi. There was just something about them. One time when I was in elementary school I walked past a catholic elementary school and they were having outdoor gym class or something. They were doing some kind of relay and in order to complete the relay, each kid had to get on their knees and bow to a nun before running back to wherever. I thought it was kind of strange. I had several friends who were catholic, but none of them ever invited me to mass or talked about being catholic.
I was Witnessed to in IL....and signed up pretty quickly.
My point in writing this topic was to find out if people were "Into" the bible before they signed up for PFAL........And my guess was correct, based on responses....we weren't.
It was easy to get into the "system" of TWI and learn what they taught as biblical truth. I certainly had nothing to compare it to. For all I knew, they were right in what they taught. And the One time I did question something and was using the Young's Concordance to show my Class instructor (Cause didn't they say look it up for yourselves? Make it your own?) and the response I got was, Dr.W. had done extensive research with far more biblical texts has gotten back to the original. So, I thought, well, I really don't know anything about the bible and here are all these guys who "Really" know the bible.
The amazing new products address a need: prepare food better, perhaps. We needed to know The Lord and be able to read The Bible. We may not need a vegematic to slice, dice and chop food because there are other ways to get the same result. And we certainly did not need to be lured into a cult. I am thankful for the Bible, but so very sorry it came with so much hurt and dirt.
Steve Hill, a wonderful evangelist who recently passed away, spoke about how, when he was first coming to know The Lord, he was introduced to a group that spoke a lot of Bible, but was filled with hypocrisy because they didn't live it (drugs and sex instead of holiness), so he left that bunch because it didn't make sense, and ended up with some sound Christians, and he was able to do much for The Lord.
It makes me cry to think of how many wonderful people wasted that call of God upon them because all the hurt and dirt clouded us up. To me. It is so very sad.
I knew more than most did....that's not bragging, is it. But what I learned was correct and taught by the minister of my church when I was young. In NYC in those days, you could be released from school at 2 o'clock (1 hour early) to go to religious education. Our church was only 2 blocks from school so we went. If you were in 7th or 8th grade, the minister taught the class. He instilled all kinds of knowledge, ethics, and other necessary Christian things. We were in a fundamental Dutch Reformed Church.
I may not have learned a lot of Bible, but I did learn a lot of 1st century church. People took care of one another. The Minister lacked for nothing. When one of the members of the Consistory (local governing body) noticed that his car was looking shoddy, he spoke to the rest of the Consistory privately and in a few months they provided a brand new car for him. They sold the old one and paid the balance on the new one out of their own pockets....not the church offerings. It wasn't demanded, in fact, it was a total surprise. As long as the other auto worked, there was no reason to dispose of it.
Yes, and all can be yours now for the low low price of $75.00, then, each month you can receive our publication of tw mazazine, for $9.95 and we will send you our subscription of the latest stuff hot off the press for only $49.95 that you can pay the doorman on your WAY OUT after each Sunday Night Fellowship. And always, give over and above, it's the abundant life you know.
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waysider
I knew very little about the Bible other than the basic Sunday school sort of things.
What state where you in when you got witnessed to? I was in FellowLaborers of Ohio in the mid 1970's.
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WordWolf
At the time.....
I had been raised in the Roman Catholic Church, in a churched-up Roman Catholic family.
And when I say that, I mean I had been an altar boy, my brother had been an altar boy
and then a commentator, and my father had been a commentator and a Eucharistic Minister.
I went to a parochial (Catholic) school, where I had gotten A's in Religion class,
and completed my confirmation.
A few years later, I left Catholicism, because I had questions concerning the big
subjects (life, death), and I was fully persuaded the Roman Catholic church didn't
have any real answers on the subject. I had seen far too many people flub far easier
questions on far too many occasions to think they'd have any kind of shot hitting a
much harder target when I actually cared about the answers.
Based on my indoctrination in school, I erroneously believed that, if the Roman Catholic
Church didn't have the answers I needed, NO Christians did. So, rather than look for other
Christians to see if ANY of them could answer my questions, I turned my back on Christianity
entirely. I was completely convinced there was a Creator God- I considered too much of
existence to be too well designed to have developed from chaos- but convinced myself fully
that conventional churches (including Judaism, Islam, etc) didn't have any answers, nor
did any of their holy books (especially the Bible- I believed that the RCC based their
stuff on the Bible, I was persuaded they lacked the answers, therefore I concluded that
the Bible lacked the answers, too. In hindsight, the errors in my reasoning are plainly
obvious.)
So, I knew OF the Bible, had never really read it, and had ZERO respect for it at the time.
The idea that the Bible COULD have relevance to people in the present was ridiculous to me
and I considered that line of thinking foolish. Naturally, it would really take something
monumental to get me to reconsider that conviction, and the results of that consideration,
naturally, would determine the direction of my life for at least the next few years-
and I knew that at the time, too.
So, before twi, I knew LESS than nothing, because what I THOUGHT I knew was misinformation,
error. The idea of me walking into a church seemed foolish to me.
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Kit Sober
SIDE NOTE RE CATHOLICS: Some of the nicest people I have known are Catholics, and many of the nicest ones in twi and ex-twi for me (then and now) had been raised Catholics. Judging from "you can tell a tree by its fruit" logic, it seems to me that Catholics are doing things truly right. That's one of the reasons I became a Catholic. I find Catholics are the ones in the world who care more about living as the Lord directs.
My Bible knowledge: I ras raised going to a Unitarian church, and there were only sermons on living nicely, nothing Bible. At home on Christmas and Easter, Dad would read the Bible (without commentary) So I trusted the Bible was true, but had no history with it, other than reading it, so I was prime gullible candidate for the "explanations" pandered by twi.
And because I was raised to simply believe what was written in the Bible, it never occurred to me that someone would use it for their own personal gain.
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WordWolf
I just stuck to answering the question.
I've met a number of quality Christians since then, many of them Catholics.
I won't agree with them on doctrine, but I have no problem working side-by-side with
them, providing I'm not required to call myself Catholic or agree with them doctrinally.
The ones I met at the parish and school I grew up with, however, are pretty fossilized.
That's the reason the adjoining parish is getting all the active Catholics from the
neighborhood- they're a Franciscan parish and have been getting things done for decades.
There's a cheerful feel to church there (compared to the other) and the laity are busy
doing things-like feeding the hungry and so on. They're also the reason I was feeling
positive when I heard Bergoglio was now the new Pope. He's justified all the good impressions
people have had, and I think he's the best thing to happen to the Catholic church in decades-
and that includes Pope John Paul II whom I also like.
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GeorgeStGeorge
My story is a little different from WordWolf's, although we had similar upbringing (RC in a practicing RC family).
I, also, had not read the Bible. Catholic services include three Scripture readings (an OT section, something from an epistle, and then something from the Gospels). OCCASIONALLY, the sermon would actually involve some exegesis of those verses, though, usually, the sermon was more about general topics and barely touched on the prescribed readings for the day. SO...my knowledge of the Bible was so limited, I just assumed that Catholic doctrine coincided with it.
I was witnessed to while in graduate school. I attended the campus RC church, being involved in the lay ministry and choir. A couple of students asked me if I wished to attend a Bible fellowship. My feeling was, things are going well in my life; maybe it's time to learn about the Bible. :)
The fundamentalist aspect of The Way appealed to my scientific mind (and still does). So, I abandoned RC doctrine years ago, and haven't turned back.
As for what seems to be a side thread going here, I know wonderful Catholics, wonderful Mormons, wonderful Hindus, wonderful Jehovah's Witnesses, and wonderful Way (and ex-Way) folks. I don't agree with most of them on doctrine, but I consider them friends. (I've also met Catholics, Mormons, Hindus, JWs and Wayfers who are total jerks.)
George
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Human without the bean
Quite a lot I think. I grew up Catholic (didn't everybody) and I always believed the bible was the word of God. Growing up my grandparents (thank you) instilled a set of values and a sense of believing, in God and the bible and it stuck with me through my adulesence. I read the word, but not so much because of what the catholics taught me. I would turn to it for enlightenment and understanding and I think it helped me get through the dark periods in my life.
As far as PFAL rocking my boat? If you mean turning it upside down, no not really! It made a lot of sense to me, and it seemed to line up with my own beliefs. The catholics never really taught the bible. It rarely came up in mass as I remember it. Looking back now, once I renounced my religion face to face with a priest because I told him I felt I had to be released from the catholic faith, if only I had the sense to not sign that card, I would have been alright.
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Ham
I hope you will suffer through a round about way explanation of what was my bible knowledge previous to way days..
my dad died when I was in something like the 8th grade. One day I was looking through some old material in his desk in the basement.. among which was a Holy Bible (which was so old that the cover had rotted off).
I had no idea what I was reading.. the new testament was missing, except for a page that claimed it was a Masonic Lodge version.. of *something*.
The still readable pages were probably from Leviticus. I read about cutting up birds.. disembowling goats and cattle.. for a while, I wondered if my dad was involved in some kind of satanic worship or something..
Sorry, no. It was just.. the Bible.
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waysider
Before I took the class, they told me I had to have a KJV, so I went to the second hand store and bought this big old clunky book table kind of thing. It was really sort of beautiful in its own way.
................It went over like a fart in Sunday School.
It looked just like this....
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mA3JlpgWbl6f21AKph3lCYA.jpg
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johniam
I had hardly read the bible before pfal. I think it had huge impact that VP treated the bible like it was a legal document. Chapter and verse. Rightly divided. I'm not saying he was 100% correct. I'm saying that by treating the bible like a rule book, he revealed a lot, not only about the bible but about his critics as well. Most Christians DO treat the bible as an aid to devotion. Personally, I think he made a better case for JCING than his critics did for JCIG.
I used to have a fascination about catholics before twi. There was just something about them. One time when I was in elementary school I walked past a catholic elementary school and they were having outdoor gym class or something. They were doing some kind of relay and in order to complete the relay, each kid had to get on their knees and bow to a nun before running back to wherever. I thought it was kind of strange. I had several friends who were catholic, but none of them ever invited me to mass or talked about being catholic.
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Ham
so then.. you were not exactly invited.. yourself.. either.
A long time ago. I was a guide to some, through a long, strange trip.. now, it would be nice if they could reciprocate.
It is asking, far, far, far, too much.
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excathedra
jesus christ is my lord and savior and he saves to the uttermost
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newlife
Thanks for your responses......
I was Witnessed to in IL....and signed up pretty quickly.
My point in writing this topic was to find out if people were "Into" the bible before they signed up for PFAL........And my guess was correct, based on responses....we weren't.
It was easy to get into the "system" of TWI and learn what they taught as biblical truth. I certainly had nothing to compare it to. For all I knew, they were right in what they taught. And the One time I did question something and was using the Young's Concordance to show my Class instructor (Cause didn't they say look it up for yourselves? Make it your own?) and the response I got was, Dr.W. had done extensive research with far more biblical texts has gotten back to the original. So, I thought, well, I really don't know anything about the bible and here are all these guys who "Really" know the bible.
Thanks for your responses.......
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waysider
PFAL was like one of those AMAZING! new products you see on TV that you never knew you needed until they told you so.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Hurry! Act now! ;)
George
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waysider
But, wait! There's more!........lot's more.
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Kit Sober
The amazing new products address a need: prepare food better, perhaps. We needed to know The Lord and be able to read The Bible. We may not need a vegematic to slice, dice and chop food because there are other ways to get the same result. And we certainly did not need to be lured into a cult. I am thankful for the Bible, but so very sorry it came with so much hurt and dirt.
Steve Hill, a wonderful evangelist who recently passed away, spoke about how, when he was first coming to know The Lord, he was introduced to a group that spoke a lot of Bible, but was filled with hypocrisy because they didn't live it (drugs and sex instead of holiness), so he left that bunch because it didn't make sense, and ended up with some sound Christians, and he was able to do much for The Lord.
It makes me cry to think of how many wonderful people wasted that call of God upon them because all the hurt and dirt clouded us up. To me. It is so very sad.
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krys
I knew more than most did....that's not bragging, is it. But what I learned was correct and taught by the minister of my church when I was young. In NYC in those days, you could be released from school at 2 o'clock (1 hour early) to go to religious education. Our church was only 2 blocks from school so we went. If you were in 7th or 8th grade, the minister taught the class. He instilled all kinds of knowledge, ethics, and other necessary Christian things. We were in a fundamental Dutch Reformed Church.
I may not have learned a lot of Bible, but I did learn a lot of 1st century church. People took care of one another. The Minister lacked for nothing. When one of the members of the Consistory (local governing body) noticed that his car was looking shoddy, he spoke to the rest of the Consistory privately and in a few months they provided a brand new car for him. They sold the old one and paid the balance on the new one out of their own pockets....not the church offerings. It wasn't demanded, in fact, it was a total surprise. As long as the other auto worked, there was no reason to dispose of it.
My home church put twi to shame.
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Human without the bean
Yes, and all can be yours now for the low low price of $75.00, then, each month you can receive our publication of tw mazazine, for $9.95 and we will send you our subscription of the latest stuff hot off the press for only $49.95 that you can pay the doorman on your WAY OUT after each Sunday Night Fellowship. And always, give over and above, it's the abundant life you know.
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outandabout
What? You had to pay the doorman?
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