Wierwille's Need-Basis Doctrine: Illegal

[skyrider]

In my search for information, I came across this thread: Rosalie's Retirement Plan

and Oldskool's post brought to mind wierwille's need-basis teachings.

Yep, it's called getting shafted. It amazes me how they can ignore obvious scripture such as the laborer is worth of his hire and then turn around and pay as little as absolutely possible. They at least did away with the need basis crap because it's illegal.

FROM THE ONSET......wierwille set-up his employee-salary plan on an ILLEGAL basis. Apparently the IRS did not take a favorable view to twi's "need-basis" setup. Ouch. So, all those years of lauding Rhoda as twi's example of living on a need-basis, the essence and right-ness of it.......it gets smacked down as ILLEGAL.

I suppose it shouldn't, but it never ceases to amaze me HOW MANY THINGS WIERWILLE DID THAT WERE OFF-KILTER.....ie con, scam, coercion. Rhoda was the first secretary hired by twi on a full-time basis and wierwille pays her the least amount that he could. But then.....makes a grand teaching on his "wisdom." Yep, here this single Mennonite woman needed a job and wierwille pays her bare minimum......and she can play the piano as well. Lordy be, what a blessing.....and her example is a cornerstone of twi's salary payment plan.

Sure, I could understand how twi struggled 1957-1967, or whatever......but then, wierwille NEVER saw the discrepancy in this need-basis plan. And further, that he BUILT A DOCTRINE around it. Call it spiritual, herald it from the brc podium, laud it as a cornerstone.......BUT the irs steps in and, BOOM, it was illegal.

And, the frustrating thing for me is.......THIS was another one of the things that had me scratching my head during my interim year at hq AND subsequent years on staff. At the time, one of my wife's coworkers, 10th corps grad had requested MUCH MORE NEED than we had. Whenever we visited them in St. Marys at their apartment, they would show us another piece of new furniture that they'd just bought. And, sure.....maybe his wife's mother was sending them money for extras, I don't know. The thing that was concerting to me was this "need-basis" salary doctrine in twi. Even then, in early 1982......I strongly suspected it was based on a faulty foundation.

Again.....it only validates my critical thinking patterns back then.

And, here's the kicker......Wierwille died at the *right* time.

1) Wierwille died before an onslaught of questions on his doctrine and teachings.

2) He died shortly after the IRS audit and changes were coming to twi.

3) He died before allegations of sexual predation came storming to the forefront.

4) He died and Geer dutifully did everything to prolong wierwille adulation, legacy.

5) He died of cancer and upper-leaders kept dissenters from "law of believing" questions.

6) He died in isolation, solitude....instilling more "mystique" and adulation.

7) He died.....see, in "giving his eye and life for the outreach of God's word."

8) He died.....a *martyr* and his legacy, as such, lives on.

[waysider]

Needs-basis doctrine was nothing more than a device The Way used to rationalize their exploitation practices.

[WordWolf]

Needs-basis doctrine was nothing more than a device The Way used to rationalize their exploitation practices.

vpw's conception seemed to be to exploit whoever and whatever he could,

construct a veneer that pretended to be Christian and display it whenever anyone

checked, and when possible, codify the exploitation into a formal program.

"Needs-basis doctrine", "plurality giving", charging people to go wow,

charging people above costs to go into the corps, etc.

If the tithe is considered exploitative, the idea of giving everything above your

immediate need should be considered doubly so. After all, if you've determined you

only need NOW 20% of your net pay, and you "abundantly shared" 80%, and an emergency

arose beyond your 20%, what would twi say? Would they give some back and offer what

assistance they could (even if it's just "sit with a loved one while we wait for them

to come out of a coma"), or would they condemn you with a platitude about poor

stewardship and refuse to hand back even a penny of what you THOUGHT you didn't need?

"There's no need to save for the future or invest- give it to twi and have treasures

in heaven."

[waysider]

"There's no need to save for the future or invest- give it to twi and have treasures

in heaven."

That's pretty near an exact quote from Harry (He's not MY uncle) Wierwille.

Edited February 12, 2014 by waysider

[skyrider]

vpw's conception seemed to be to exploit whoever and whatever he could,

construct a veneer that pretended to be Christian and display it whenever anyone

checked, and when possible, codify the exploitation into a formal program.

"Needs-basis doctrine", "plurality giving", charging people to go wow,

charging people above costs to go into the corps, etc.

If the tithe is considered exploitative, the idea of giving everything above your

immediate need should be considered doubly so. After all, if you've determined you

only need NOW 20% of your net pay, and you "abundantly shared" 80%, and an emergency

arose beyond your 20%, what would twi say? Would they give some back and offer what

assistance they could (even if it's just "sit with a loved one while we wait for them

to come out of a coma"), or would they condemn you with a platitude about poor

stewardship and refuse to hand back even a penny of what you THOUGHT you didn't need?

"There's no need to save for the future or invest- give it to twi and have treasures

in heaven."

WW....."Would twi give some back if absolutely needed" WAS a subject that came up

during one of martindale's corps meetings. After lots of scoffing, scolding and even

to consider such a ludicrous, devilish thought, martindale utilized this poignant attack

on the ministry as a launching point to annihilate any further consideration.

Needless to say, THAT was never brought before the trustees again......AND the corps

couple who had broached the subject exited rather quickly.

So, according to twi.....if you've got ANY plurality, give, give, give.

BUT....if you EVER have a need, then go to God.

<_<

[WordWolf]

WW....."Would twi give some back if absolutely needed" WAS a subject that came up

during one of martindale's corps meetings. After lots of scoffing, scolding and even

to consider such a ludicrous, devilish thought, martindale utilized this poignant attack

on the ministry as a launching point to annihilate any further consideration.

Needless to say, THAT was never brought before the trustees again......AND the corps

couple who had broached the subject exited rather quickly.

So, according to twi.....if you've got ANY plurality, give, give, give.

BUT....if you EVER have a need, then go to God.

<_</>

So, according to twi,

twi believers are REQUIRED to give more than 10% of their income,

and is SUPPOSED to give anything not part of an immediate need rather than save it-

because twi has to be supported/supplied by its people,

which is why it goes to its people- and puts the squeeze on them.

twi, on the other hand,

is NOT required to financially help people, even by giving back a fraction of

what the person SHOULD have saved, but gave twi anyway,

and will condemn anyone who suggests such a thing.

twi'ers, in need, are to turn to God, or sometimes to family outside of twi

who were to be spurned unless there was a need-

but never to turn to twi with a single material need.

twi, as a rule, does not give back for material needs, period.

If any of you reading this are still in twi, this is a reminder that twi

considers your financial existence as being there to give them money,

and you are NOT to invest or save for retirement or other things.

"They will work until they die."

[skyrider]

twi, on the other hand,

is NOT required to financially help people.....

Again, the tiresome, DOUBLE-STANDARD treatment....

1) The ruling class claims to "have the verd"....the pleebs MUST believe to pay for it.

2) The elitists claim obedience to God....the pleebs must SHOW obedience to leaders.

3) The directors always have their hand out....but don't you dare ask for a hand up.

4) VPW always claimed God was his sufficiency....yet stayed on church payroll till 1957.

5) Fleecing the wayfers is twi's one-trick-pony......its the only show they have $$$$

.

Edited February 13, 2014 by skyrider

[Tzaia]

But then again we were exhorted to "get our wants and needs parallel" in the "class". That is one thing I took away from that class and used anytime someone felt a need to extort what was mine. As in - you don't "need" this anymore, with me saying that yeah, but I want it.

[Steve Lortz]

Hiya, Tzaia! Good to see you still around and kickin'!

Love,

Steve

[Twinky]

What they "forgot" was that the gathering of abundance was to prepare for lean times. Some paid for Levites and their families in OT times. But in NT times, abundance was gathered so that it could be shared with those in need ... those [ordinary believers] who were experiencing famine; others who were in need because of illness, imprisonment, or widowhood. Of the disciples and apostles who remained in Jerusalem, do we hear of them claiming to be entitled to a tithe or any other money? No!

I should be interested to know whether LCM still "abundantly shares" or even tithes to any organisation, and whether he lives on a "need" basis only, from whatever his income stream now is, and gives all the rest to some religious organisation of his choice...or enforced upon him. Does he drive a ratty old car? Wear clothes that are passed down from who knows how many other people? Have the burden of enforced journeys on a regular basis, and enforced (and chargeable) attendance at events where he hears the same old thing again and again?

The whole bloody show took away any "joy of giving."

But then, that's par for the course. Which took away all the "joy of living."

[Watered Garden]

Shortly before our exit, LCM carried the "needs basis" one step further by deciding that no one "needed" to own a home. WC (as I understand it, never having reached that exalted position) were told to sell their homes or get de-WC'd. LCM stated on a Sunday night teaching that he had never owned a home in his life and it hadn't hurt him a bit. Of course, he went from his parents to the jock dorm at UK to WC to king of the hill so it didn't matter.

I was always a bit shocked when granted the privilege of visiting a limb coordinator's home. They lived in mansions compared to us. But I guess there was some justification or other that they "needed" a fabulous place to live in order to host events or something.

[WordWolf]

Shortly before our exit, LCM carried the "needs basis" one step further by deciding that no one "needed" to own a home. WC (as I understand it, never having reached that exalted position) were told to sell their homes or get de-WC'd.

And, having "made income" from the sale of the house, were expected to give

15% to 20% directly to twi as "abundant sharing."

LCM stated on a Sunday night teaching that he had never owned a home in his life and it hadn't hurt him a bit. Of course, he went from his parents to the jock dorm at UK to WC to king of the hill so it didn't matter.

lcm had no idea that he HAD no idea how people lived.

He didn't even remember how college students lived.

We know that because, when he was put in charge of sending WOWs out,

he sent off the first group early in the morning ON AN EMPTY STOMACH.

He saved the organization the cost of feeding them

"because he wasn't really much of a breakfast person."

Honestly, in college, finding food is a big deal no matter what form

the food took, so a recent college grad should still remember that as

a priority. You have people scheduled for a day of a lot of walking

(cardio points), and you're not thinking the people need some kind of meal

before getting to work? That's ridiculous- even if it's a light meal,

they need SOMETHING.

Yes- lcm went from living off his parents to living directly at college,

to living directly at HQ. lcm never lived on his own, and never held down

a job. lcm always lived off someone else, and had no idea what it meant to

own a home or even be in charge of an apartment, for that matter.

And he was lecturing those who HAD about homes and apartments, when he'd

never been responsible for either. It was as sensible as getting marriage

counseling from him.

I was always a bit shocked when granted the privilege of visiting a limb coordinator's home. They lived in mansions compared to us. But I guess there was some justification or other that they "needed" a fabulous place to live in order to host events or something.

twi creatively reinterpreted anything at hand to make it look like

that was supposed to be how it was. You lived in semi-poverty and gave

away your savings, while the LC's lived off your savings and lived in

really nice homes owned by twi (and thus tax-exempt.) On the other hand,

the LC's were shocked when they suddenly had to move out because they

weren't bowing prostrate before lcm's or rfr's image, and suddenly they

realized THEY had no savings EITHER despite having had the money

to do so.

[skyrider]

twi creatively reinterpreted anything at hand to make it look like

that was supposed to be how it was. You lived in semi-poverty and gave

away your savings, while the LC's lived off your savings and lived in

really nice homes owned by twi (and thus tax-exempt.) On the other hand,

the LC's were shocked when they suddenly had to move out because they

weren't bowing prostrate before lcm's or rfr's image, and suddenly they

realized THEY had no savings EITHER despite having had the money

to do so.

As a former limb coordinator, I would like to qualify some of the above statements.

1) Yes, there were some really nice limb homes in the late 70s and early 80s.

More specifically, those limb homes in New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Indiana, Texas and Florida

come to mind. Sure there are probably others, like California.....but I don't really know for sure.

It was during these *expansion years* where some cities had 2 or 3 branches of fellowships.....or

18-25 twigs.....with weekend events, coffeehouse entertainment, way homes, etc. that made these limbs

mini-headquarters for each state [as it should be, rather than centrally-controlled from Ohio].

2) This period of the "big limb homes" was scaled way back after 1989....[da fog years].

With some 80% of corps and followers leaving twi......the belt was tightened to a new reality.

3) With regards to LCs "living off others' savings"......well, that's not accurate.

As limb coordinators, my wife and I were designated a *needs-basis salary* just like all other staff.

No special favors. Sure, we were reimbursed for out-of-pocket expenditures related to a petty cash fund,

which by the way was a measly $300. If we had a need to spend more than $300 [like say, reservations for

a ministry event at a hotel or conference center].....then, this expenditure had to be cleared thru the

region coordinators.

4) By the early 90s, most limb homes were the average three-bedroom homes in an average neighborhood.

In fact, when martindale announced for all corps to be full-time staff.....he mandated that corps live

in apartments or small homes [for families]. He also mandated that limb homes did NOT need a guest room

for when leadership traveled into your city. They would just have to get a hotel/motel room.

5) When we decided to exit twi......we were NOT SHOCKED by the sudden reality of *paying our own way*

or anything of the sort. Again, at our limb home.....we were NOT living above and beyond anything that

others in our area were living. During THIS TIME FRAME......the big limb homes were a thing of the past.

6) What was so challenging when we exited....was the gut-wrenching reality that TWI DID EVERYTHING THEY

COULD TO STRIP US OF ANY SUPPORT OR NETWORK. Region coordinators and corps banded together to mark/avoid

us and lie about our decades of good works. Of course, they smeared our good name and that the devil was

at work in our lives...ie, we were possessed. (hahahaha) It is SO AMAZING how twi-followers are such

gullible schlubs and don't have a thought they can call their own.

7) We had no real savings BECAUSE twi adamantly frowned on padding one's savings account. According to

this cult......you need to "believe God to meet your need" NOT MONEY.

There was nothing quite like being in, and getting out, of this twi-light zone. :smilie_kool_aid:/>

.

Edited April 21, 2014 by skyrider

[Watered Garden]

The luxurious limb home to which I referred was in North Carolina. We lived in NC 1990-1993. The same home was used by the Greenes and then the Moynihans. I do recall that it may have been a rental, but it was huge for two people to be rattling around in. They had a guest room with a register set up and were quite proud to show the guests where the register had been signed by LCM.

[excathedra]

a guest registry lol

--

7) He died.....see, in "giving his eye and life for the outreach of God's word."

that's even funnier. that eyeball. he should have left it behind so we could kick it around a little or ask it some questions

may i burn in hell

both those eyes were dead even before he got the new dead one

[skyrider]

The luxurious limb home to which I referred was in North Carolina. We lived in NC 1990-1993. The same home was used by the Greenes and then the Moynihans. I do recall that it may have been a rental, but it was huge for two people to be rattling around in. They had a guest room with a register set up and were quite proud to show the guests where the register had been signed by LCM.

Yes, there were some really nice limb homes.

My point in posting was to add clarity to the limb home/limb coordinator reference.

Many of these bigger limb homes......the REGION COORDINATORS resided there.

Back then......places like New Orleans had like 24 twigs, and growing.

The Region men were the big-wigs on the field......not the limb guys.

Most all region men were arrogant yes-men and bullies.

Ever notice how many limb guys cut ties and headed into secular work?

Of course, there is a huge difference to what was back in twi's heyday and the mid-90s to now.

[Broken Arrow]

I was always a bit shocked when granted the privilege of visiting a limb coordinator's home. They lived in mansions compared to us. But I guess there was some justification or other that they "needed" a fabulous place to live in order to host events or something.

The Idaho Limb home in Boise was pretty luxurious and the state didn't officially have enough people to really qualify as a Limb. One day, we corps were granted the "privilege" of spending a "State Corps Weekend" at the home of the Limb Coordinator's home. We were told that it was actually "our" home. We got to spend the entire weekend working on the house and yard of the LC. Of course, it wasn't just the LC's, it was all of ours. It just so happened that the LC's family was the only one that lived in it. That and a couple of staff members. Idaho was pretty spread out so it took Corps that was not in Boise many hours to drive there. In my case, it was a 9 hour drive one way. I was a WOW and I worked at McDonald's. By God, I'd better be there though.

The Limb at Georgia wasn't exactly a shack either, though we never had to do anything as ridiculous as the Idaho thing. Granted, this was in the early 80's.

[Broken Arrow]

5) He died of cancer and upper-leaders kept dissenters from "law of believing" questions.

Let's not forget that according to Wierwille's teaching cancer was a devil spirit. So Wierwille died of cancer but he was also the Man of God for our day and time and God taught him the Word directly. So, what's the case here, did Wierwille get possessed? If he did, how did his mind get so unrenewed? Or was Wierwille's teaching wrong. If it was, then how could God have been wrong when he taught Wierwille the Word? And, if he was wrong in this teaching, What else was he wrong about?

[waysider]

Don and Harry W. both died of cancer, too. And now John L has cancer, as well. So much for the greatness of the Advanced Class.

[skyrider]

The Limb at Georgia wasn't exactly a shack either, though we never had to do anything as ridiculous as the Idaho thing. Granted, this was in the early 80's.

Yeah....the early 80's when everything in twi was going off the rails.

....when wierwille was about to put the skunk pelt on martindale.

....when the need-basis doctrine in twi was running amuck.

....when planes, motor coaches and Harley were signature statements.

....when predatory elements were a conduit in twi's machinery.

....when *name tag recognition* was at its apex adulation.

[excathedra]

what a frikkin privilege to work on YOUR home even though you lived 9 hours from it lol

the true need-basis doctrine certainly was illegal -- it was wierwille's need to hump, even rape, young women