Threats of Expulsion, Oh My

[skyrider]

When one discovered inconsistencies, weakness and flaws in a system......dozens more seem to pop up to verify it. In fact, it gets to the point where you don't have to go out of your way looking for them, they find you. And, so it was.....at the 1979 Corps Week.

And please understand why so many of my references are in the "corps genre"......nothing exposes wierwille AND twi more than being *up close and personal* [ie twi's "most spiritual" training].

Like so many things in twi, Corps Week was heralded as A unique time for the man of God, Dr. Wierwille, to be with his corps......and then, there was the REAL REASON. The corps provided the necessary work force ahead, and during, the rock of ages. Not just getting the tents up, but virtually everything. The OSC Warehouse became a full-scale operation of food storage, prep, and distribution center. Semi-trailers were parked on the west end to provide for frozen products and cold-storage. Forklifts were abuzz at 4:30am to move product to feed the masses.

Obviously, you can't have 18,000 - 22,000 people show up and not be ready to feed them.

Anyways........Corps Week wasn't really about wierwille imparting more *spiritual gems to corps*......it was MANDATORY WORK WEEK OR ELSE. The "or else" was the threat of expulsion. Yeah, if you didn't show up....they were going to throw your azz out. And, if you DO show up for corps week.....DON'T YOU DARE leave early and skip the roa. And, this was 1979.

Ummmm.....so, these kinds of inconsistencies and threats kept reinforcing in me that all of this mog-doctrine shenanigans were masking twi-servitude. Should I stay and try to change it? Could my life possibly make any difference in the whole scheme of things?

By 1979, there was this *silent, dogged resistance* to comply to wierwille's demands. And, rather than address some issues head-on.....wierwille reverted to thuggery and threats. Even vp's demeanor was different during corps week; he could sense the resistance. Yet, he could do nothing. His mask was slipping.

[Rocky]

Why did you stay in so long? I'll grant that I did not recognize Wierwille's less than godly dark side when I was in the corpse. I've tried to figure out why I didn't see it and all I can come up with is that I was young and naive. It also occurs to me that having spent a few years in military service, I had been conditioned to follow orders. Yet, I knew I didn't like following orders enough to make the military a career. But eventually, not long after turning 30, the light came on.

A confluence to events led me to realize twi wasn't what I originally understood it to be.

Among those things, while I was (finally) going to college in my late 20s, I was still interested in the Bible. I figured out that Wierwille had the whole concept of accountability bass-ackwards. He was the one, like Paul, who was supposed to be accountable to those who supported him. Instead, his "Way Tree" was all about adulation for the MOG. When I realized that, I was out of there.

Why did you stay when you had misgivings about him?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Rocky

[skyrider]

Why did you stay in so long? I'll grant that I did not recognize Wierwille's less than godly dark side when I was in the corpse. I've tried to figure out why I didn't see it and all I can come up with is that I was young and naive. It also occurs to me that having spent a few years in military service, I had been conditioned to follow orders. Yet, I knew I didn't like following orders enough to make the military a career. But eventually, not long after turning 30, the light came on.

A confluence to events led me to realize twi wasn't what I originally understood it to be.

Among those things, while I was (finally) going to college in my late 20s, I was still interested in the Bible. I figured out that Wierwille had the whole concept of accountability bass-ackwards. He was the one, like Paul, who was supposed to be accountable to those who supported him. Instead, his "Way Tree" was all about adulation for the MOG. When I realized that, I was out of there.

Why did you stay when you had misgivings about him?

That question, Why did you stay when you had misgivings about him? was one that simmered on the back burner of my mind while in-residence. And, one that deserves answered.....but I must admit, it was interwoven within the fabric of several complexities.

Interwoven Complexities:

1) Two years as a WOW Ambassador....and I'd seen several healings and small wonders.

2) At that time, the corps program did not equate to a lifetime of twi-servitude.

3) Biblical Research was bigger than wierwille.....bigger than twi, I thought.

4) Wierwille would soon fade in a few yrs, twi would move on....and so would I.

5) I found refuge in a few others, mostly 7th corps, who thought the same.

6) Made a pact with hq staff co-worker to help with other staffers struggling.

7) Was God wanting me to stay *within*.....to help unburden others?

8) My prayer was that God would show me when to leave.....and He did.

Perhaps, some of you wrestled with some of these?

[skyrider]

2) At that time, the corps program did not equate to a lifetime of twi-servitude.

Here's one example of that:

While in-residence, one Friday the corps coordinators separated all the men and women. The plan was to have men's and women's advances......like some 40 per branch, or so. Anyways, that day my Branch coordinator, Mike Tr@cy

taught us men regarding leadership, goals and fortitude.....and, one of the take-aways from his teaching, which I still remember to this day.....he wanted to be one of the next corps after graduation to gift ONE MILLION DOLLARS

to twi.

Yeah.....ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

See, wierwille had been on campus a few week prior and stated (the gist)......"Not all of you corps are going to be limb or branch leaders. Some of you will need to go into businesses and professions and serve God in that manner. And, someday, I [vpw] look forward to someone abundantly sharing one million dollars to twi." Yes, wierwille said as much......and, here, weeks later, a 7th corps guy was determined to go do just that.

The corps numbers were jumping so drastically at the time [300 per year] and Rome City campus was filling up as well.....that twi leadership were encouraging corps to go into businesses and professions after graduation. Sure, run a twig.....but don't count on being on twi's payroll.

At that time, the 7th corps was heralded at the most gifted, talented corps of them all. And, many of them took wierwille's statements......and after graduation, were gone.

[skyrider]

3) Biblical Research was bigger than wierwille.....bigger than twi, I thought.

Sure, wierwille bloviated about how much he worked the 'word' and all......but really??

In my mind, it was SO OBVIOUS that there was much more to biblical research than the sliver

of pfal. Anyone who owned a Companion Bible and perused the 197 Appendixes could see that

twi was only scratching the surface of WHAT OTHERS, BEFORE, HAD RESEARCHED.

Now, let me state for the record.......I believe that THIS was an unspoken truth: there were

many others pressing forward to research beyond wierwille's "findings."

The 7th corps man, D@n McC@unaghy went from corps graduation to get a PhD in one of Chicago's

theological seminaries. Some of his work appeared in those corps newsletters or GMIR...or

whatever that research outlet was called. Others too. Mike Gud0rf, 9th corps, went on to

further study and was commended, by twi, for doing so.

Of course, those in twi's research department had parameters, but.....if truth be told....

I believe that there were a few mavaricks in there as well. Christ_ph St__p didn't seem to

agree with twi-inclusiveness. By 1983-86, twi was moving into developing an Aramaic work

and furthering this work.

Lots of stuff.....the more I think about it, the more these memories come flooding back.

[Rocky]

Lots of stuff.....the more I think about it, the more these memories come flooding back.

That's probably a good idea, if you're using those memories and reflections to work through the personal issues the experience ultimately meant for you.

I've agreed with a lot of your more or less psychoanalytical parsing of the experiences, especially in the 9th corpse.

But 30 years is a long time to stick it out if you actually understood so early in your time in twi that Wierwille and the organization he built was so evil.

In one sense, we can look back with bitterness at the way Wierwille stole our youth from us. But if that's only as far as you get in re-evaluating

the memories, you might be keeping yourself locked up in that same box longer than necessary.

Do you believe yourself to have found a particular calling to minister to others with similar experiences in spiritually abusive organizations?

Or do you have other interests and passions for serving or contributing to society in other ways?

We're approaching 60 (if you're the same age as I am). You could possibly have another 30 or more years to do something for others.

I hope you can make the best of it.

[skyrider]

I hope you can make the best of it.

I am.

And you?

Life, family, business, home, neighbors, community.....lots of successes.

And, like so many have shared......there's so much more than posting on GS.

Obviously, I could expound on personal achievements and accomplishments, but this

forum is About the Way not me.

Hopefully, a few things I've shared has helped others to understand more scripture

and some of the snares of the evil one.

[skyrider]

But 30 years is a long time to stick it out....

Perhaps, it might be somewhat insightful to address this:

1) For me, it was not 30 years (in twi)

2) For me, I had major disagreement with Cgeer's paper (1986)

3) And, away from twi (with small children) during turbulence

4) And, kept a healthy skepticism in back pocket (vindication)

5) Helping others was more of my focus than twi-mandates

6) By 1993, more twi-legalism.....yet, I was far away

7) Twi was like a moving train....when was it best to jump off?

8) The scriptures are full of accounts of *discerning the times*

9) With wife, kids and others....when to best disentangle ourselves?

Quite frankly, I'd been pondering much of this in 1993....

and exited a few years later.

But really......my story is not that much different than those who jumped

into an offshoot for 10-15 years after twi. I have several friends who went

into the John Lynn-personal prophesy-momentus fiasco.....having to extricate

themselves from yet ANOTHER cult.

[chockfull]

That question, Why did you stay when you had misgivings about him? was one that simmered on the back burner of my mind while in-residence.

You know I think all of us had some element of this going on. Thinking back for me there were certain incidents which didn't tie together until later in my mind. Like foreshadowing in a plot.

I've struggled this like I'm sure many have - my personal morality in the midst of a cult.

For me the reason I didn't act sooner was I didn't know enough yet. I didn't know enough yet because people hid their evil deeds, thoughts, and designs from me for the most part. And it took a while to see through people's deception. And even when I did there's a consideration for the rest of the people involved.

In other words, the wolf was wearing sheep's clothing. So he looked like a sheep, talked like a sheep, acted like a sheep, except for that on certain mornings one of the other sheep is missing and the wolf had a larger grin on his face. Nobody expects the leader to prey upon the flock.

[chockfull]

But 30 years is a long time to stick it out if you actually understood so early in your time in twi that Wierwille and the organization he built was so evil.

I know this is to skyrider but I felt like answering from my experiences as there are many similarities.

I didn't understand the half of how evil it was until much later. Many things I'm still putting together now. Because people don't tell you their true intentions. But sure, like most, I'm certain that there was a time when I knew enough about the evil to leave but didn't leave. Due to my own personal commitment, due to trying to do the best for what I thought was the "household", and maybe a dozen other reasons. Actually the biggest reason is that when you are under their authority, you are at least a part under their influence.

In one sense, we can look back with bitterness at the way Wierwille stole our youth from us. But if that's only as far as you get in re-evaluating

the memories, you might be keeping yourself locked up in that same box longer than necessary.

In another sense, I can look back on this semi-judgmental application of "Release From Your Prisons" and make the observation that perhaps Wierwille stole more from you than you realize.

I have bitterness towards TWI for the years they stole from me. This is tempered by my claiming the promise in Joel 2:25 of the Lord restoring to me the years that the locust has eaten. But I can't claim that promise if I'm not realistic about the years. And I don't buy TWI's interpretation of the "root of bitterness" verse that they use to intimidate people they sin against and lord over and beat down.

The bitterness in my life over my path and the years makes the promise of God in the verse all the sweeter. even in foods bitter and sweet can combine to produce a dish with complex flavors that is better than either flavor alone. But only in life and spiritual things do we try and pretend that life is only sweet and that any negative experience you need to suppress and push down.

To me that is a tried and true recipe for giving yourself an ulcer and a nervous breakdown. And there is no way that is a prescription originated by God. God's voice is strength and encouragement to help you through the trials of life, not guidance to ignore them.

Do you believe yourself to have found a particular calling to minister to others with similar experiences in spiritually abusive organizations?

Not really. I just post on some message boards to talk with some kindred souls and others with different viewpoints. I think this whole "calling" thing was part of the manipulation used to gain control over my life. I think that is part of what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:32-37 when he instructs people not to make oaths like they did in the Old Testament but to just mean what they say when they say it.

Of course that makes some of the Corps verses about vowing vows and paying them a little how shall we say "wrongly divided" ???

Or do you have other interests and passions for serving or contributing to society in other ways?

No. I just intend on sitting in my basement for the next 30 years and writing a corollary to the book of Lamentations.

Can you sound any more condescending?

We're approaching 60 (if you're the same age as I am). You could possibly have another 30 or more years to do something for others.

I hope you can make the best of it.

Doin the best I can with what I've got.

Actually I think that's my new 2014 slogan.

[chockfull]

Why did you stay in so long? I'll grant that I did not recognize Wierwille's less than godly dark side when I was in the corpse. I've tried to figure out why I didn't see it and all I can come up with is that I was young and naive. It also occurs to me that having spent a few years in military service, I had been conditioned to follow orders. Yet, I knew I didn't like following orders enough to make the military a career. But eventually, not long after turning 30, the light came on.

I was young and naïve too. Actually I think that's part of the cult stuff. They focus energies on people under 25. Kids brains aren't fully developed then.

A confluence to events led me to realize twi wasn't what I originally understood it to be.

Me too. For some reason this is what it takes - a confluence of events.

Among those things, while I was (finally) going to college in my late 20s, I was still interested in the Bible. I figured out that Wierwille had the whole concept of accountability bass-ackwards. He was the one, like Paul, who was supposed to be accountable to those who supported him. Instead, his "Way Tree" was all about adulation for the MOG. When I realized that, I was out of there.

Cool. I had different "aha" moments that led to my departure. I did notice that once I got out of there I started seeing more of the evil for what it really was.

[Rocky]

Perhaps, it might be somewhat insightful to address this:

1) For me, it was not 30 years (in twi)

2) For me, I had major disagreement with Cgeer's paper (1986)

3) And, away from twi (with small children) during turbulence

4) And, kept a healthy skepticism in back pocket (vindication)

5) Helping others was more of my focus than twi-mandates

6) By 1993, more twi-legalism.....yet, I was far away

7) Twi was like a moving train....when was it best to jump off?

8) The scriptures are full of accounts of *discerning the times*

9) With wife, kids and others....when to best disentangle ourselves?

Quite frankly, I'd been pondering much of this in 1993....

and exited a few years later.

But really......my story is not that much different than those who jumped

into an offshoot for 10-15 years after twi. I have several friends who went

into the John Lynn-personal prophesy-momentus fiasco.....having to extricate

themselves from yet ANOTHER cult.

Yeah... I hear that. Last time I saw JAL in person was when my daughter was just a couple of months old... I was highly unimpressed.

I'm doing well. Have found a calling, in a way to positively impact my community. Hopefully I have a few more decades to make a difference. :)

[Rocky]

I know this is to skyrider but I felt like answering from my experiences as there are many similarities.

It was indeed to skyrider. Of course, it's wonderful that anyone can share here.

In another sense, I can look back on this semi-judgmental application of "Release From Your Prisons" and make the observation that perhaps Wierwille stole more from you than you realize.

He may have stolen more from me than I realize, but I've moved on and don't have much of a sense anymore about what I lost in the 12 years I was involved with twi. I've had other traumas in my life since, including divorce. I can count it a victory that despite a horrendous two years of litigation (that ended 15 years ago) I'm friends with both my-ex (who never was in twi, but now is a committed mormon) and the judge who finally got to sign the divorce decree.

I enjoy my life now. I feel like I've found my calling and it isn't in being subject to an emotionally abusive cult. I can say, however, that I draw on the experience in twi when I analyze situations, groups and public figures about whom I write. Anyway, enough about me.

Can you sound any more condescending?

Hmmm.... well, I can't say I've felt like I've gotten to know much about you from your posts, so I don't really know what to say to that comment other than I hope you didn't really take anything I wrote as personally addressed to you.

[WordWolf]

You may not have personally addressed it to him (or me), but it DID sound

like the one-post drive-by posters that still worship vpw's system and

want us to stop pointing out how it was based on lies and flaws. One of

their usual tactics is to say that-if we're still talking about all of it

and pointing out any negatives- that we're consumed by bitterness, spend

all our free time here, and accomplish nothing else in our lives beyond

what's posted here. You may not have intended to sound ANYTHING like

them or mean ANYTHING like that, but it sure sounded that way.

[waysider]

I was threatened with expulsion from a program once, for non-compliance to a demand that was ludicrous. My wife, at the time, was zealous for the program. I thought about pulling us both out of the program. Instead, I decided to conform to leaderships' demands and never told her about the incident. It only made matters worse because, then, she was puzzled by my change in attitude. I can't say much more than that without betraying confidentiality. Even with the best of plans, you just never know where life is going to lead you.

edit: The point I'm making here is that sometimes you do things you don't want to do (like stay in The Way) for someone else's happiness.

Edited January 30, 2014 by waysider

[chockfull]

It was indeed to skyrider. Of course, it's wonderful that anyone can share here.

do you know him outside of this forum?

He may have stolen more from me than I realize, but I've moved on and don't have much of a sense anymore about what I lost in the 12 years I was involved with twi. I've had other traumas in my life since, including divorce. I can count it a victory that despite a horrendous two years of litigation (that ended 15 years ago) I'm friends with both my-ex (who never was in twi, but now is a committed mormon) and the judge who finally got to sign the divorce decree.

I enjoy my life now. I feel like I've found my calling and it isn't in being subject to an emotionally abusive cult. I can say, however, that I draw on the experience in twi when I analyze situations, groups and public figures about whom I write. Anyway, enough about me.

that's great you are growing, moving forward and enjoying life. congrats on weathering those trials. I think we all draw on our experiences and are more wary of hucksters after twi.

Hmmm.... well, I can't say I've felt like I've gotten to know much about you from your posts, so I don't really know what to say to that comment other than I hope you didn't really take anything I wrote as personally addressed to you.

well stick around and read more of my posts if you have an inclination. some things I share others I keep private as we are in a public place here not a private conversation. you can't help getting to know people by reading what they write.

[chockfull]

I was threatened with expulsion from a program once, for non-compliance to a demand that was ludicrous. My wife, at the time, was zealous for the program. I thought about pulling us both out of the program. Instead, I decided to conform to leaderships' demands and never told her about the incident. It only made matters worse because, then, she was puzzled by my change in attitude. I can't say much more than that without betraying confidentiality. Even with the best of plans, you just never know where life is going to lead you.

this is actually a mind control tactic. make ludicrous small demands, then escalate any confrontation to demand compliance. they give you a choice not between your baseline and where you are now, but just a small incremental change that is easily justified as it's not that big a deal to warrant dying on a battlefield over. over time, the person is conditioned to cave in over small things. they are always afraid to bring anything up, even small things, because confrontation will be escalated. then you wake up 10 years down the road and don't know yourself anymore or what you've become. but some people never wake up. others wake up, know it's wrong, but go back to sleep because it's too hard to row upstream.

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Can you sound any more condescending?

Actually, I've heard Rocky sound a LOT more condescending. :)

Here, I thought he was being sympathetic.

George

[chockfull]

Actually, I've heard Rocky sound a LOT more condescending. :)/>

Here, I thought he was being sympathetic.

George

LOL. Is this a case where with sympathetic friends like that who needs enemies?

[Oakspear]

There are many reasons why people stay as long as they did, or who got out as soon as they did, and the differences are as many as there are ex-TWI-ers. Maybe it was a spouse who didn't see the problems, or other family members who were stuck in Waybrain. Perhaps it was a belief that "The Word" wasn't being taught "accurately" anywhere else. Sometimes it was a mindset that TWI could be changed from within.

In my years posting on GSC I noted a tendency for many of us to view those who got out after us as deluded; who were just blind to the error, the abuse and all the rest - how could they miss it? Of course we were involved before the crap hit the fan, or at least before it was obvious. Those of us who left when the lawsuit was announced couldn't understand why those who stuck it out stayed in. The folks who left after POP couldn't fathom why we were still wayfers. The people who got out in the seventies were amazed at the people who trudged along through the eighties, and so on. A lot of us thought that the moment we got out was the perfect time to jump ship!

[skyrider]

There are many reasons why people stay as long as they did, or who got out as soon as they did, and the differences are as many as there are ex-TWI-ers. Maybe it was a spouse who didn't see the problems, or other family members who were stuck in Waybrain. Perhaps it was a belief that "The Word" wasn't being taught "accurately" anywhere else. Sometimes it was a mindset that TWI could be changed from within.

In my years posting on GSC I noted a tendency for many of us to view those who got out after us as deluded; who were just blind to the error, the abuse and all the rest - how could they miss it? Of course we were involved before the crap hit the fan, or at least before it was obvious. Those of us who left when the lawsuit was announced couldn't understand why those who stuck it out stayed in. The folks who left after POP couldn't fathom why we were still wayfers. The people who got out in the seventies were amazed at the people who trudged along through the eighties, and so on. A lot of us thought that the moment we got out was the perfect time to jump ship!

Yes.......twi has ALWAYS been a revolving door.

Seems like Dr. EE H!ggins (1958?) wasn't all that impressed.

And really......there were REASONS why some never even took vpw's classes.

Some people could sense the manipulation and exploitation from observation.

[Rocky]

You may not have personally addressed it to him (or me), but it DID sound

like the one-post drive-by posters that still worship vpw's system and

want us to stop pointing out how it was based on lies and flaws. One of

their usual tactics is to say that-if we're still talking about all of it

and pointing out any negatives- that we're consumed by bitterness, spend

all our free time here, and accomplish nothing else in our lives beyond

what's posted here. You may not have intended to sound ANYTHING like

them or mean ANYTHING like that, but it sure sounded that way.

Nope, wasn't my point at all.

[excathedra]

No. I just intend on sitting in my basement for the next 30 years and writing a corollary to the book of Lamentations.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha big snort ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha can i join you? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha