Strange, you folks want the dirty laundry. A Book. In order to write such a book means that one must be an entrusted person, a confidant, within the circle, someone who was faithful. Now that's all well and good for those of us who want to smell the dirty laundry but what about the person who "TRADES" their confidence for other reasons, such as "money". It dirties the concept of loyalty, friend or foe. Book writers are normally folks on the fringe, folks with a bit of knowledge but without the inner circle knowledge - that's a cheap tweet. Evil or good, I despise a breach in loyalty. Itchy ears.
Lots of jumbled assertions and accusations in that paragraph.
"you folks want the dirty laundry"...........nope. I want to dismantle the wierwille-mystique and the cult's power to "steal, kill and destroy" others.
"an entrusted person, a confidant".........how else would someone be privy to inside information?
"it dirties the concept of loyalty, friend or foe".......umm, MRAP have you ever read about the Apostle Paul, a Pharisee of the Pharisees?
"evil or good, I despise a breach in loyalty"...........wow, guess everyone who leaves a cult should cower and slink away, huh?
Since I started this thread.....let me repeat the gist (first post) of why write "a tell-all book"....
Secrets that could bust the wierwille-mystique once and for all?
Secrets that could enlighten the geer power-grab and fog years?
Secrets that could rattle the martindales and craig's buy-off?
Frankly, I could care less about hearing any more of wierwille/martindale/twi "dirty laundry"........who really cares to hear more about seducers and seductresses? about three-somes in Dayton motels, corps girls abused and/or raped in motor coaches? about Cabin 12 at camp gunnison and the set-up wherein corps coordinators made sure martindale was provided privacy and access to selected in-rez girls?
What about "the loyalty" to the faithful followers who think (cough, cough) that twi is legit? What about the craig martindale payoff.....the buy-out to silence him? How much was he given up front.......cash money, ira investment, insurance access, nice car, perks, stuff.........and THEN, $60,000 per year for life.
At $60,000 per year..............martindale has ALREADY received $900,000.
At this rate, .......in another 25 years.......add another $1,500,000.
Wonder if the newbie cult-followers understand that their ABS helps supply "retirement funds" to a sexual predator?
We know that martindale slithered away into the night to Toledo......to live in a twi-owned house. So, does craig STILL have this added perk? Does twi pay the property tax, electric, water and association fees? If so........WOW, that stretches that $60,000 even further. Then......does craig get access to Camp Gunnison? What are ALL the hidden perks that are skimmed from the cult's "abundant sharing" that pay for martindale's silence?
If I were in the twi-cult...............I would want to know this evil.
Then, and only then...................could I make an informed decision as to stay or not.
On Thursday, January 16, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Twinky said:
Course he won't. Anyway, anyone who posts here knows the gory details anyway.
All I want to hear from him is that he truly repents of the evil he has done, and the evil he has by his own actions propped up.
(His true repentance will be evident from his actions in humbly helping disadvantaged people in whatever community he finds himself.)
I still stand by this, my earlier post.
And I think that the tell-all stories from Pen, KK, Kristen Stewart, Sky, etc are a part of their own cleansing and a part of their repentance, and in large part a way to help communities (including online) understand and heal. I would like to think that in their own ways they are also active in helping the physical communities around them. There are many ways to do that, only some of which involve church- or religious-based activities.
What about "the loyalty" to the faithful followers who think (cough, cough) that twi is legit? What about the craig martindale payoff.....the buy-out to silence him? How much was he given up front.......cash money, ira investment, insurance access, nice car, perks, stuff.........and THEN, $60,000 per year for life.
At $60,000 per year..............martindale has ALREADY received $900,000.
At this rate, .......in another 25 years.......add another $1,500,000.
Wonder if the newbie cult-followers understand that their ABS helps supply "retirement funds" to a sexual predator?
We know that martindale slithered away into the night to Toledo......to live in a twi-owned house. So, does craig STILL have this added perk? Does twi pay the property tax, electric, water and association fees? If so........WOW, that stretches that $60,000 even further. Then......does craig get access to Camp Gunnison? What are ALL the hidden perks that are skimmed from the cult's "abundant sharing" that pay for martindale's silence?
If I were in the twi-cult...............I would want to know this evil.
Then, and only then...................could I make an informed decision as to stay or not.
ADD...........
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if martindale had a LIFETIME twi-issued credit card.........travel, gas expense, etc.
Martindale had access to twi's in-house medical doctor. Probably given twi-funded psychologist......as well.
And, probably..........twi funded their youngest daughter's college tuition.
Martindale worked stints at Bally's & UPS........to supplement his income.
Now, at age 68........if he draws monthly social security, say $2,400 per month = $28,800 a year
$60,000 + $28,800 = $ 88,800 PER YEAR for life.....................and all of the hidden perks.
Not too shabby for a guy who should have done prison time.
He won't get that much from social security. That's close to the maximum amount anyone can possibly receive. (Currently, the max is about $2600/month) In order to do that, he would have needed to earn the maximum amount for at least 35 years. (The current 35 year max is somewhere around $127,000 per year.) Most average recipients get somewhere around $1200-$1500 per month. In addition, he will have a tax liability if his individual annual income exceeds about $25,000 ($32,000 for joint filing). Aside from that, I totally get the point you are making.
Source: Those numbers are approximations of the amounts found on the official GVT. site.
TWI taught that believers receive only rewards at the bema. However, a part of Scripture they conveniently forget is where we all stand before the judgment seat of God. No hell-fire, our incorruptible seed guarantees that ... BUT I do know enough about God and His Word to know that there will be eternal justice for all the things they have done during this life that were done in secret. Nothing is secret from God ... they will pay when the time comes .. at the hand of God, not man. That is a comfort to me concerning not just TWI leadership, but others who have done wrong with no remorse.
On Thursday, January 16, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Twinky said:
Course he won't. Anyway, anyone who posts here knows the gory details anyway.
All I want to hear from him is that he truly repents of the evil he has done, and the evil he has by his own actions propped up.
(His true repentance will be evident from his actions in humbly helping disadvantaged people in whatever community he finds himself.)
I still stand by this, my earlier post.
And I think that the tell-all stories from Pen, KK, Kristen Stewart, Sky, etc are a part of their own cleansing and a part of their repentance, and in large part a way to help communities (including online) understand and heal. I would like to think that in their own ways they are also active in helping the physical communities around them. There are many ways to do that, only some of which involve church- or religious-based activities.
TWI taught that believers receive only rewards at the bema. However, a part of Scripture they conveniently forget is where we all stand before the judgment seat of God. No hell-fire, our incorruptible seed guarantees that ... BUT I do know enough about God and His Word to know that there will be eternal justice for all the things they have done during this life that were done in secret. Nothing is secret from God ... they will pay when the time comes .. at the hand of God, not man. That is a comfort to me concerning not just TWI leadership, but others who have done wrong with no remorse.
You have some good points there. If I may, I’d like to add a few comments. I don’t mean to derail this thread – and I know this is not the doctrinal forum – but as is often the case in About the Way forum – there are many issues to sort out involving our personal experiences and TWI’s convoluted doctrine and practice.
There are many paradoxes in the Bible and salvation is certainly one of them. Scripture does indicate that salvation is forever – yet – there are also passages that stress we are to persevere (or remain faithful) until the end. It is my opinion that some folks in TWI (at least while I was in it) focused more on the salvation-is-forever thing. And concerning some folks this may even have been to the detriment of a properly functioning conscience.
To be honest, I don’t really get into looking ahead to the judgement seat, eternal justice, etc. probably for no other reason than I’m more concerned about what I’m supposed to do right now. I don’t mean to come down on anyone’s hopes or theology – I just believe TWI had a way of getting followers to think more about the rewards and glory of heaven rather than responsibilities in the here and now. Like one leader encouraging me to spend what little money we had at a restaurant (of course it was our treat for him and his wife) while at an out-of-town TWI event – because Christ could come back at any time don’t you know.
For some reason this week I kept coming upon verses in the Old and New Testament that address false prophets, corrupt leaders, and developing discernment in such cases. In that regard, Grease Spot is a valuable resource for me. One of my favorite study Bibles is The Life Application Study Bible, NLT. In some ways rummaging through my personal experiences and mental baggage alongside Grease Spot forums is sort of like a life application study bible process.
I hope to see more people of note coming forward to spill the beans on TWI’s dark underbelly. Maybe not a “comforting” thought but in my humble opinion any exposing of its all-encompassing deceitfulness does wonders for untangling a wide assortment of TWI entanglements (emotional, intellectual, social, etc.). There is a certain amount of satisfaction that comes with discovering the cause of a problem. You realize that you are not the cause of the problem. You figure out that absorbing TWI’s doctrine and practice was the chewy caramel center (the cause) of the problem.
Not sure that I believe we only get rewards at the bema. There are rewards in this life too. Restoring the years that the locust has eaten isn't a promise for a future life or wherever - it may be, but it also means in this present life. Our lives should demonstrate God's faithfulness to His promises. Did God not reward Job's faithfulness openly, right there and then? Many OT examples. The gospels speak of this, too.
For myself, I think the reward of peace of mind, joy in God's love, enjoying the fellowship of like-minded Christian friends, are all part of our "now" reward. Nice is there is something later;meantime, I'll enjoy the rewards (fruit of the spirit) now.
Those frauds at TWI can't enjoy "fruit" rewards - their "rewards" are limited to Gal 5:19-21 only.
And I think that the tell-all stories from Pen, KK, Kristen Stewart Skedgell, Sky, etc are a part of their own cleansing and a part of their repentance, and in large part a way to help communities (including online) understand and heal. I would like to think that in their own ways they are also active in helping the physical communities around them. There are many ways to do that, only some of which involve church- or religious-based activities.
And I think that the tell-all stories from Pen, KK, Kristen Skedgell, Sky, etc are a part of their own cleansing and a part of their repentance, and in large part a way to help communities (including online) understand and heal. I would like to think that in their own ways they are also active in helping the physical communities around them. There are many ways to do that, only some of which involve church- or religious-based activities.
Twinky.......I don't regard telling my story as "a part of my repentance."
I regard this story, Insanity on Steroids......as a warning about cult manipulation and involvement.
Let's not forget that Linder was a willing henchman for his participation. He won't implicate himself by releasing a tell-all. I had several negative encounters with him while in is role as LCM's enforcer.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if martindale had a LIFETIME twi-issued credit card.........travel, gas expense, etc.
Martindale had access to twi's in-house medical doctor. Probably given twi-funded psychologist......as well.
And, probably..........twi funded their youngest daughter's college tuition.
Martindale worked stints at Bally's & UPS........to supplement his income.
Now, at age 68........if he draws monthly social security, say $2,400 per month = $28,800 a year
$60,000 + $28,800 = $ 88,800 PER YEAR for life.....................and all of the hidden perks.
Not too shabby for a guy who should have done prison time.
.
Wow! LCM does quite well for himself Sky. I think he should spend the rest of his life in prison for all the harm he did. I often wonder if he regrets the harm that he caused to so many innocent people.
TWI taught that believers receive only rewards at the bema. However, a part of Scripture they conveniently forget is where we all stand before the judgment seat of God. No hell-fire, our incorruptible seed guarantees that ... BUT I do know enough about God and His Word to know that there will be eternal justice for all the things they have done during this life that were done in secret. Nothing is secret from God ... they will pay when the time comes .. at the hand of God, not man. That is a comfort to me concerning not just TWI leadership, but others who have done wrong with no remorse.
I also take comfort in knowing that we will all be judged some day for our deeds, or misdeeds here on earth.
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waysider
Like Sonny Boy Williamson said:
Don't Start Me Talkin', I'll Tell Everything I Know.
Warning! Link contains "The Devil's Music".
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skyrider
Lots of jumbled assertions and accusations in that paragraph.
Since I started this thread.....let me repeat the gist (first post) of why write "a tell-all book"....
Secrets that could bust the wierwille-mystique once and for all?
Secrets that could enlighten the geer power-grab and fog years?
Secrets that could rattle the martindales and craig's buy-off?
Frankly, I could care less about hearing any more of wierwille/martindale/twi "dirty laundry"........who really cares to hear more about seducers and seductresses? about three-somes in Dayton motels, corps girls abused and/or raped in motor coaches? about Cabin 12 at camp gunnison and the set-up wherein corps coordinators made sure martindale was provided privacy and access to selected in-rez girls?
What about "the loyalty" to the faithful followers who think (cough, cough) that twi is legit? What about the craig martindale payoff.....the buy-out to silence him? How much was he given up front.......cash money, ira investment, insurance access, nice car, perks, stuff.........and THEN, $60,000 per year for life.
We know that martindale slithered away into the night to Toledo......to live in a twi-owned house. So, does craig STILL have this added perk? Does twi pay the property tax, electric, water and association fees? If so........WOW, that stretches that $60,000 even further. Then......does craig get access to Camp Gunnison? What are ALL the hidden perks that are skimmed from the cult's "abundant sharing" that pay for martindale's silence?
If I were in the twi-cult...............I would want to know this evil.
Then, and only then...................could I make an informed decision as to stay or not.
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T-Bone
love that, Waysider !!!!!
another revealing book would be great...it may inspire some other leadership to speak out
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Twinky
I still stand by this, my earlier post.
And I think that the tell-all stories from Pen, KK, Kristen Stewart, Sky, etc are a part of their own cleansing and a part of their repentance, and in large part a way to help communities (including online) understand and heal. I would like to think that in their own ways they are also active in helping the physical communities around them. There are many ways to do that, only some of which involve church- or religious-based activities.
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skyrider
ADD...........
.
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waysider
He won't get that much from social security. That's close to the maximum amount anyone can possibly receive. (Currently, the max is about $2600/month) In order to do that, he would have needed to earn the maximum amount for at least 35 years. (The current 35 year max is somewhere around $127,000 per year.) Most average recipients get somewhere around $1200-$1500 per month. In addition, he will have a tax liability if his individual annual income exceeds about $25,000 ($32,000 for joint filing). Aside from that, I totally get the point you are making.
Source: Those numbers are approximations of the amounts found on the official GVT. site.
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skyrider
Thanks waysider.....
Can't imagine how others, if they ever heard about this, would want to send abs-money to fund this....
Maybe this added information will help one more person decide to leave that cult.
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waysider
ABS=All B.S.
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higherground30
Exactly preach say it again
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DogLover
TWI taught that believers receive only rewards at the bema. However, a part of Scripture they conveniently forget is where we all stand before the judgment seat of God. No hell-fire, our incorruptible seed guarantees that ... BUT I do know enough about God and His Word to know that there will be eternal justice for all the things they have done during this life that were done in secret. Nothing is secret from God ... they will pay when the time comes .. at the hand of God, not man. That is a comfort to me concerning not just TWI leadership, but others who have done wrong with no remorse.
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Twinky
I still stand by this, my earlier post.
And I think that the tell-all stories from Pen, KK, Kristen Stewart, Sky, etc are a part of their own cleansing and a part of their repentance, and in large part a way to help communities (including online) understand and heal. I would like to think that in their own ways they are also active in helping the physical communities around them. There are many ways to do that, only some of which involve church- or religious-based activities.
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T-Bone
You have some good points there. If I may, I’d like to add a few comments. I don’t mean to derail this thread – and I know this is not the doctrinal forum – but as is often the case in About the Way forum – there are many issues to sort out involving our personal experiences and TWI’s convoluted doctrine and practice.
There are many paradoxes in the Bible and salvation is certainly one of them. Scripture does indicate that salvation is forever – yet – there are also passages that stress we are to persevere (or remain faithful) until the end. It is my opinion that some folks in TWI (at least while I was in it) focused more on the salvation-is-forever thing. And concerning some folks this may even have been to the detriment of a properly functioning conscience.
To be honest, I don’t really get into looking ahead to the judgement seat, eternal justice, etc. probably for no other reason than I’m more concerned about what I’m supposed to do right now. I don’t mean to come down on anyone’s hopes or theology – I just believe TWI had a way of getting followers to think more about the rewards and glory of heaven rather than responsibilities in the here and now. Like one leader encouraging me to spend what little money we had at a restaurant (of course it was our treat for him and his wife) while at an out-of-town TWI event – because Christ could come back at any time don’t you know.
For some reason this week I kept coming upon verses in the Old and New Testament that address false prophets, corrupt leaders, and developing discernment in such cases. In that regard, Grease Spot is a valuable resource for me. One of my favorite study Bibles is The Life Application Study Bible, NLT. In some ways rummaging through my personal experiences and mental baggage alongside Grease Spot forums is sort of like a life application study bible process.
I hope to see more people of note coming forward to spill the beans on TWI’s dark underbelly. Maybe not a “comforting” thought but in my humble opinion any exposing of its all-encompassing deceitfulness does wonders for untangling a wide assortment of TWI entanglements (emotional, intellectual, social, etc.). There is a certain amount of satisfaction that comes with discovering the cause of a problem. You realize that you are not the cause of the problem. You figure out that absorbing TWI’s doctrine and practice was the chewy caramel center (the cause) of the problem.
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Twinky
Not sure that I believe we only get rewards at the bema. There are rewards in this life too. Restoring the years that the locust has eaten isn't a promise for a future life or wherever - it may be, but it also means in this present life. Our lives should demonstrate God's faithfulness to His promises. Did God not reward Job's faithfulness openly, right there and then? Many OT examples. The gospels speak of this, too.
For myself, I think the reward of peace of mind, joy in God's love, enjoying the fellowship of like-minded Christian friends, are all part of our "now" reward. Nice is there is something later;meantime, I'll enjoy the rewards (fruit of the spirit) now.
Those frauds at TWI can't enjoy "fruit" rewards - their "rewards" are limited to Gal 5:19-21 only.
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Rocky
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skyrider
Twinky.......I don't regard telling my story as "a part of my repentance."
I regard this story, Insanity on Steroids......as a warning about cult manipulation and involvement.
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Longhunter
I don't know if LCM still receives funds, but I do know (thanks to voter registration) that he lives in a crappy apartment.
As for Linder, if he won't write you a book, maybe he'll tell you his story in a banjo ballad.
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Longhunter
Let's not forget that Linder was a willing henchman for his participation. He won't implicate himself by releasing a tell-all. I had several negative encounters with him while in is role as LCM's enforcer.
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JayDee
I saw that apartment too. Was under the impression he was living in a house purchased by twi and had a 65k annual income from them also???
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Grace Valerie Claire
Wow! LCM does quite well for himself Sky. I think he should spend the rest of his life in prison for all the harm he did. I often wonder if he regrets the harm that he caused to so many innocent people.
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Grace Valerie Claire
I also take comfort in knowing that we will all be judged some day for our deeds, or misdeeds here on earth.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Linder won't write a tell all book unless he is fired/ Marked and avoided
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chockfull
Or a movie remake
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