I think, in his subtle way, Wierwille was setting us up for a lifestyle of dependency.
The question becomes......what is meant by "taught?" Does one need a teacher, a mentor, to advance thru life? If that's the implication of the wierwille statement, then his 'teaching' (cough, cough) ministry is the perfect fit for a lifetime student. But.....what about being self-taught? Or observation? Or book-reading? Or reading and re-reading the scriptures?
IMO.....wierwille's pfal was presented like basic arithmetic. Simple. Direct. Add and subtract....principles that have no variables. Wierwille's 2 + 2 will give the answer.
Yet, wierwille never factored in how one discerns hypocrisy, deception, or manipulation BY OBSERVATION. By discernment, one could LEARN what was behind the messaging, behind the curtain! Wierwille was NOT nearly as clever as he thought he was. What wierwille taught was NOT NEARLY AS IMPORTANT as what he did or how he lived. Sure, he held the bible high when he taught the Sunday Service.....BUT DID HE HOLD THE BIBLE HIGH when he exemplified the life of a drunkard? sexual predation? haughty pride? false humility? no genuine compassion?
Did wierwille really think that his cunning deception [look over here] as students of scripture, and growing into adulthood, would mask his little tricks a lifetime? Really? The scriptures speak of demonstrating God's power..... yet, why were all of wierwille's examples of "revelation/healing" in the past? With each passing year, discerning eyes WERE LEARNING that wierwille was a fraud.
Wierwille also referenced *learning has to come from outside the source seeking.* So, no matter what the old man was "teaching" us.....we were gaining wisdom and discernment with EACH PASSING YEAR. Eventually, [by 1978 for me] the wierwille mystique was in full view.....and I fully expected twi to move beyond "the starter kit of pfal" and beyond. You know, Buzz Lightyear stuff, spiritually speaking.
"You can't go beyond what you're taught."-----VPW (PFAL)
Ridiculous!
Great ideas don't come all wrapped in pretty paper with a colorful ribbon on top. They evolve. Some evolve quickly and some evolve slowly. Liken the process to a myriad of small streams, merging into a river. That's how it happens.
If we relied solely on what we were taught, mankind would still be limited to a vocabulary of "Ugh!".
I think, in his subtle way, Wierwille was setting us up for a lifestyle of dependency.
Don't be afraid to go exploring. Some of the little streams may have already gone dry but others might lead you to raging rivers.
ithink in his NOT so subtle way, he was setting people up for dependency.
The converse is that one can not go beyond what he learns. Learning is up to the learner to seek out opportunity. That's what you can't go beyond. Find the resource that will teach you the next thing you wish to learn. Be it a book, an experience/advencture or another teacher.VPwas all abvout we could not go beyond he would teach up. that's bogus.
ithink in his NOT so subtle way, he was setting people up for dependency.
The converse is that one can not go beyond what he learns. Learning is up to the learner to seek out opportunity. That's what you can't go beyond. Find the resource that will teach you the next thing you wish to learn. Be it a book, an experience/advencture or another teacher.VPwas all abvout we could not go beyond he would teach up. that's bogus.
To a degree,
I think it's true that SOME people never go beyond what they are taught.
So, if you teach them nonsense- give them catchphrases, cultural indoctrination, whatever-
and they will just spit back whatever you gave them. When the ex-twi, cgeer crowd began
pushing a God who wasn't all-knowing, we got supposed leaders and others all spitting
back the same catchphrases by rote, not evaluating what was taught. I see the same thing
sometimes with society-give people a catchy song and you don't need any evidence to back
yourself up.
For vpw,
this was very useful. Since he encouraged others to forsake all other sources of information
besides himself/twi, not going beyond what you are taught became
not going beyond what HE taught.
In fact, there's still people who believe that- we've even seen posters here claim the
only real innovation-like scientific discoveries and improvements-
can only be by Divine Revelation or by demonic involvement.
Nonsense- but it's lazy thinking and of a piece with what vpw taught.
Very self-serving, and, I imagine, a comfort to the intellectually lazy.
"You can't go beyond what you're taught."-----VPW (PFAL)
Awwww......the benefits of pontificating from the podium.
By re-writing twi history AND lecturing the way forward, wierwille was able to project the mystique of a "man of god." See, the young-ins weren't around when wierwille saw black snowstorms and walked in India......so re-written history was for the taking. And, sitting on his plateau of guru-ness, wierwille sat on his porch while hippie-types came to wayville for summer camp. And, filling his evenings with night owls and Drambuie-coffee, wierwille would stoke the fires of his greatness.
You see.....a teacher lives to teach. And, students need to learn. For wierwille, this class-based ministry structure was a match "made in heaven."
The only thing The Teacher needs [since his gig isn't subsidized by gov't grants].....is a repeat student. One who will keep coming back for class after class, night owl after night owl. And for that, they've got to be mesmerized by a moggish-mystique. Plus, they cannot OBSERVE him in action. That would give away the scam. Wierwille has to be seen as the perpetual teacher.
I actually agree with the statement that you can't go beyond what you're taught, but the belief comes with a very liberal understanding of the word "taught." If you are not taught (either by a person or by the necessity of circumstance/experience) to ask questions, question assumptions, and look at a bigger picture, then you're going to be stuck. The notion that you can't go beyond what you're taught carries within it the means to do exactly that. I would revise the statement to say the following: Unless you learn how to do it, you can't go beyond what others teach you.
Science goes beyond what scientists have been taught all the time, because scientists have been taught HOW to do it.
To me the phrase "you can't go beyond what you are taught" was and is an indoctrination statement. Of course you can go beyond what you were taught. People do it every day. The whole precept of higher education has people with doctorate degrees "advancing" their field of study beyond what their predecessors were able to, standing on their shoulders. There are advances in almost every major field of study annually.
Every advancement we have in our world was someone who refused to accept that they can't go beyond what they were taught and going farther. The houses we live in, the cars we drive, the computers we type on. The fact that we can even interact at all is due to someone "going beyond what they were taught".
Now maybe VP couldn't go beyond what he was taught. Maybe that's the reason for all the plagiarism. And yes there is an element of that statement that describes how bad habits or unchanging thought patterns can keep someone enslaved when they could walk free.
But go beyond what I'm taught? I sure hope I can, because I was taught some pretty messed up practices in TWI. It wasn't what was coming out of their mouths. It was what their actions taught me that was the most messed up.
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skyrider
The question becomes......what is meant by "taught?" Does one need a teacher, a mentor, to advance thru life? If that's the implication of the wierwille statement, then his 'teaching' (cough, cough) ministry is the perfect fit for a lifetime student. But.....what about being self-taught? Or observation? Or book-reading? Or reading and re-reading the scriptures?
IMO.....wierwille's pfal was presented like basic arithmetic. Simple. Direct. Add and subtract....principles that have no variables. Wierwille's 2 + 2 will give the answer.
Yet, wierwille never factored in how one discerns hypocrisy, deception, or manipulation BY OBSERVATION. By discernment, one could LEARN what was behind the messaging, behind the curtain! Wierwille was NOT nearly as clever as he thought he was. What wierwille taught was NOT NEARLY AS IMPORTANT as what he did or how he lived. Sure, he held the bible high when he taught the Sunday Service.....BUT DID HE HOLD THE BIBLE HIGH when he exemplified the life of a drunkard? sexual predation? haughty pride? false humility? no genuine compassion?
Did wierwille really think that his cunning deception [look over here] as students of scripture, and growing into adulthood, would mask his little tricks a lifetime? Really? The scriptures speak of demonstrating God's power..... yet, why were all of wierwille's examples of "revelation/healing" in the past? With each passing year, discerning eyes WERE LEARNING that wierwille was a fraud.
Wierwille also referenced *learning has to come from outside the source seeking.* So, no matter what the old man was "teaching" us.....we were gaining wisdom and discernment with EACH PASSING YEAR. Eventually, [by 1978 for me] the wierwille mystique was in full view.....and I fully expected twi to move beyond "the starter kit of pfal" and beyond. You know, Buzz Lightyear stuff, spiritually speaking.
It never happened.
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WordWolf
I think it began because vpw, as a student, was very LAZY.
He never saw knowledge as having value in itself, only as a commodity.
So, he never did any thinking for himself.
Look back at his entire history- it's the story of a person who
plagiarized, ripped off, and parroted the work of others.
He was incapable of original work because he never bothered to learn
things on more than a surface level- so he could only repeat back or
copy, never innovate. His idea of "innovation" was to make COSMETIC
CHANGES so something was the same but looked different.
So, vpw never went further than he was taught...until it came to
abusing authority, Scripture, or people. In those, he was able to break
new ground, as near as I can tell.
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Rocky
ithink in his NOT so subtle way, he was setting people up for dependency.
The converse is that one can not go beyond what he learns. Learning is up to the learner to seek out opportunity. That's what you can't go beyond. Find the resource that will teach you the next thing you wish to learn. Be it a book, an experience/advencture or another teacher.VPwas all abvout we could not go beyond he would teach up. that's bogus.
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Steve Lortz
Psalm 119:99
"I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation."
Love,
Steve
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WordWolf
To a degree,
I think it's true that SOME people never go beyond what they are taught.
So, if you teach them nonsense- give them catchphrases, cultural indoctrination, whatever-
and they will just spit back whatever you gave them. When the ex-twi, cgeer crowd began
pushing a God who wasn't all-knowing, we got supposed leaders and others all spitting
back the same catchphrases by rote, not evaluating what was taught. I see the same thing
sometimes with society-give people a catchy song and you don't need any evidence to back
yourself up.
For vpw,
this was very useful. Since he encouraged others to forsake all other sources of information
besides himself/twi, not going beyond what you are taught became
not going beyond what HE taught.
In fact, there's still people who believe that- we've even seen posters here claim the
only real innovation-like scientific discoveries and improvements-
can only be by Divine Revelation or by demonic involvement.
Nonsense- but it's lazy thinking and of a piece with what vpw taught.
Very self-serving, and, I imagine, a comfort to the intellectually lazy.
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skyrider
Awwww......the benefits of pontificating from the podium.
By re-writing twi history AND lecturing the way forward, wierwille was able to project the mystique of a "man of god." See, the young-ins weren't around when wierwille saw black snowstorms and walked in India......so re-written history was for the taking. And, sitting on his plateau of guru-ness, wierwille sat on his porch while hippie-types came to wayville for summer camp. And, filling his evenings with night owls and Drambuie-coffee, wierwille would stoke the fires of his greatness.
You see.....a teacher lives to teach. And, students need to learn. For wierwille, this class-based ministry structure was a match "made in heaven."
The only thing The Teacher needs [since his gig isn't subsidized by gov't grants].....is a repeat student. One who will keep coming back for class after class, night owl after night owl. And for that, they've got to be mesmerized by a moggish-mystique. Plus, they cannot OBSERVE him in action. That would give away the scam. Wierwille has to be seen as the perpetual teacher.
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chockfull
yeah, a scripture that Jesus probably had memorized by the time he went up before the elders, helping him to astound them.
More and more I see that in Christianity very few people model Jesus Christ.
Most people model sheep.
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Raf
I actually agree with the statement that you can't go beyond what you're taught, but the belief comes with a very liberal understanding of the word "taught." If you are not taught (either by a person or by the necessity of circumstance/experience) to ask questions, question assumptions, and look at a bigger picture, then you're going to be stuck. The notion that you can't go beyond what you're taught carries within it the means to do exactly that. I would revise the statement to say the following: Unless you learn how to do it, you can't go beyond what others teach you.
Science goes beyond what scientists have been taught all the time, because scientists have been taught HOW to do it.
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waysider
"Unless you learn how to do it, you can't go beyond what others teach you."
That's the purpose of higher education...learning how to learn.
Wierwille wanted us to "learn" via his system of learning.
The caveat, of course, was that he imposed himself upon us as The Teacher.
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skyrider
And.....that's where the CULT rubber meets the road.
Wierwille's "teaching ministry" embodied the pfal series and could NEVER be improved upon.
As the founding father of this "new light," no one could challenge, let along surpass, his
bedrock teachings of twi. In subtle twi-idolatry, wierwille was clothed with all of the
gift ministries.....apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, helps, & governments.
In true cult form, the "absent Christ" teaching fit perfectly into compartmentalizing the
infant stage of cult learning. Wierwille was their all-in-all.....pfal and beyond.
Of course, vpw gave lip service to the scriptures, but there is strong, sustainable evidence
that he didn't believe them. The scriptures were simply a springboard to HIS TEACHINGS....
a narcissist in every sense of its definition.
IMO.....wierwille could never adequately convey or teach spirit-revelation, because he had no
understanding of it.....he was passing off book-knowledge or plagiarized material, not heart
or experience. Gal. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it,
but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
.
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waysider
He repeated a lot of things he either didn't understand, himself, or misunderstood completely.
I don't think it bothered him to do that as long as people kept coming back for more.
He never really learned how to learn, he learned how to exploit the learning of others.
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waysider
2x
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Bolshevik
'Don't' go beyond what you are taught . . . is what was implied
"stay in your lane" . . . "the work has been done"
lazy . . . someone said
PFAL/WAP grad = BUM
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chockfull
To me the phrase "you can't go beyond what you are taught" was and is an indoctrination statement. Of course you can go beyond what you were taught. People do it every day. The whole precept of higher education has people with doctorate degrees "advancing" their field of study beyond what their predecessors were able to, standing on their shoulders. There are advances in almost every major field of study annually.
Every advancement we have in our world was someone who refused to accept that they can't go beyond what they were taught and going farther. The houses we live in, the cars we drive, the computers we type on. The fact that we can even interact at all is due to someone "going beyond what they were taught".
Now maybe VP couldn't go beyond what he was taught. Maybe that's the reason for all the plagiarism. And yes there is an element of that statement that describes how bad habits or unchanging thought patterns can keep someone enslaved when they could walk free.
But go beyond what I'm taught? I sure hope I can, because I was taught some pretty messed up practices in TWI. It wasn't what was coming out of their mouths. It was what their actions taught me that was the most messed up.
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