Much of his positive confession/law of believing material came from Kenyon. He may have mentioned Kenyon in passing but, I've never seen a formal citation to that effect. The interesting thing about the bookstore is that they sold extraneous materials, from time to time, but we were always encouraged to give Way materials priority and precedence to their study and accuracy. At one time (I believe the early 1980's) we were encouraged to study nothing but "The Blue Book". You may recall that, in one session of PFAL, Bullinger's book was used to "prove" that Bullinger and Wierwille had independently come to the same conclusion regarding four having been crucified with Christ. (Which, by the way, has long since proven to be flawed research, anyhow.)
Just for the record, I didn't say VPW didn't rip off Kenyon. Just that at least when I was in he promoted Kenyon's material. I don't want to get into a discussion about Four Crucified. But I've read a lot of research stating two and that stating four (Not TWI or offshoot stuff) and I still find Four makes more sense to me, so I don't totally agree with you there. But as you stated VPW's "research" is flawed and incomplete, I would give you that. On the other hand, I don't think it really matters that much either. Personally if I think about how often the Romans practiced crucifixion I would be surprised if there weren't a lot more than four crucified at the same time he was.
But I'm derailing the thread and I shouldn't.
The first time I was involved with TWI I wasn't given the option to bolt. They just sort of disappeared from my life. In reality, I came back briefly in the late 80s and basically I did bolt. But not as fast as I should have. I should have bolted when I walked in to HQ for the first time in 15 years and saw everyone dressed up in formal dress rather than Jeans and T-shirts which was the norm when I was first there.
"I should have bolted when I walked in to HQ for the first time in 15 years and saw everyone dressed up in formal dress rather than Jeans and T-shirts which was the norm when I was first there."
Yeah, it's funny how transitions that happen slowly seem to sneak by you.
One day I was wearing tie-dyed tee shirts and before I even noticed, I was wearing dress shirts and carrying a briefcase.
I never heard about Ken Barden.....But, I kind of heard various stories about that LEAD situation.
I suppose there are many stories and situations that I never heard about at the top. I, myself, was a lowly sometimes Leaf, sometimes TC who was always told I had a devil spirit hanging around or was possessed, however no one could help me at the time.......what happened to all that power they had???
I should of bolted when my parents presented me with some facts about TWI and I ignored them as being from the pit. I should of bolted when I lived in an apartment with believers and they said the towels were not hung correctly....huh??? Seriously???
I should of bolted when I didn't understand what they heck they were teaching, but said, Oh it must be me.
I think I was very naive at that age.....and I was really needing a family that loved and accepted me........I should have bolted~
"I should have bolted when I walked in to HQ for the first time in 15 years and saw everyone dressed up in formal dress rather than Jeans and T-shirts which was the norm when I was first there."
Yeah, it's funny how transitions that happen slowly seem to sneak by you.
One day I was wearing tie-dyed tee shirts and before I even noticed, I was wearing dress shirts and carrying a briefcase.
And you can imagine what they thought of me when I, along with my wife and several friends walked in wearing jeans and T-shirts and sat front Row center for the service. My second clue that should have led me to bolt earlier was the amazing amount of profanity in the teaching. Yeah, VPW did a little from time to time, but this teaching by LCM was filled with it.
And you can imagine what they thought of me when I, along with my wife and several friends walked in wearing jeans and T-shirts and sat front Row center for the service. My second clue that should have led me to bolt earlier was the amazing amount of profanity in the teaching. Yeah, VPW did a little from time to time, but this teaching by LCM was filled with it.
:offtopic:/> Is where I learned to swear so badly. Foul language by LCM in a Sunday night teaching was fairly normal; it was completely, completely, completely, normal in a Corps teaching. Don't know about "the Word," or application of scripture - but I surely learned a lot of offensive words.
... but I was too deeply in, by then.... :(
Shudda gone when they were so legalistic when putting on my first PFAL class!
I should have bolted when, in session #5, it was revealed to me that I had been duped into taking the class via "date and switch".
That's how my dad was brought into TWI.
My parents should have bolted after their children were treated badly for the umpteenth time.
I bolted at the right time. I was with my spouse and little brother. My spouse was taking their first class. It was embarrassing. My little brother left class after a week - disgusted. My spouse stuck with me and we spent most of our time during the breaks laughing about how creepy the instructors were acting and how homophobic they were (I mean - wow - some of the things they said). I'm so glad we stuck it out - the last day they made fun of the guy who had gone to every class but the last. He had brain cancer and seizures and it was a miracle he was even there. They laughed about him and how he didn't believe enough to be there. They even had a mini fellowship teaching about it.
That was it. The last straw in a long line of uncharitable behavior.
There is no defending that. I didn't want to. I'm glad I left then. There was no doubts.
We never really got to listen to the tapes with cm much. When we did my dad watched to it before hand and had his thumb on the mute or power button. I didn't realize cm cursed so much until he was gone and my mom told me about it.
1) After taking pfal, I attended a statewide meeting where it was trumpeted that Wierwille would be present. He entered from the back of the room, with two bodyguards one step behind, and taught a so-so teaching. The WOWs were all a-flutter, but quick frankly I was not impressed. Should have followed my gut instinct.
2) At my first roa in Lima, several individuals had had money and items stolen from their tents. This was my first experience of twi on a grand-scale......and, with this thievery, it was not even on par with church socials.
3) My first WOW year....and this WOW girl in the second family had major problems. She would scratch and claw at herself all through the night leaving her arms and legs in an ugly mess. It took months to get her off the WOW field and, hopefully, she got the psychological/physical help she desperately needed.
4) At Emporia, my first year in-residence......the College Division was a big deal at the time and, on occasion, were in attendance with the corps at certain meetings. Well, as life happens....I sit beside a College Division girl and really enjoyed being near her. Later, I walked her back to her dorm. We started spending more time together when that "self-structured" time was available......BUT SOON, it was told to me in certain terms that Corps should not be fraternizing with the College Division. See, the corps was to be the spiritual arm and the college students were more toward the business end. In other words, unequally yoked! Get it?!
5) The Caste System was EVERYWHERE in twi......and everyone was to stay in his lane.
Pfal grads: A filled vessel and a start
Int grads: Better...and improving
Adv. grads: Okay, now you can walk
WOWs: Yep, a year of service. Grow like crazy.
College Division: Good stuff. Put spiritual truths in work place
Corps: Committed to physically/mentally/spiritually serve
Clergy: Another level of recognition
Trustees: The Untouchables
I should have bolted a number of times......but was talked out of it.
Sky, I should have left after I finished the Class. I thought it was boring, from the first class , to the last session.
-- my college way home coordinator told me i should lie down and sleep and hold my limb leader
-- wierwille left bathroom door open at my college way home and turned around full monty when i walked by (had a big sheet eating grin on his ugly face)
-- when my college way home friends all went out and spent the night pheasant hunting on the motor bus in the dark
-- when ken barden died hitching back from LEAD
-- "uncle" harry grabbed my breasts and said, "oh, so young and firm"
-- wierwille told me he needs to heal me from my past sexual abuse
-- wieriwlle told me i had never been loved by a real man of god
-- finnegan tore me to shreads because he was under so much spiritual pressure
how am i doing? i got more :)
Exci, none of that S--t should have happened to you, or anyone else!!!
My parents should have bolted after their children were treated badly for the umpteenth time.
I bolted at the right time. I was with my spouse and little brother. My spouse was taking their first class. It was embarrassing. My little brother left class after a week - disgusted. My spouse stuck with me and we spent most of our time during the breaks laughing about how creepy the instructors were acting and how homophobic they were (I mean - wow - some of the things they said). I'm so glad we stuck it out - the last day they made fun of the guy who had gone to every class but the last. He had brain cancer and seizures and it was a miracle he was even there. They laughed about him and how he didn't believe enough to be there. They even had a mini fellowship teaching about it.
That was it. The last straw in a long line of uncharitable behavior.
There is no defending that. I didn't want to. I'm glad I left then. There was no doubts.
Nero, they sound like jerks to me! Laughing at someone with Brain Cancer, is pathetic!
I never heard about Ken Barden.....But, I kind of heard various stories about that LEAD situation.
I suppose there are many stories and situations that I never heard about at the top. I, myself, was a lowly sometimes Leaf, sometimes TC who was always told I had a devil spirit hanging around or was possessed, however no one could help me at the time.......what happened to all that power they had???
I should of bolted when my parents presented me with some facts about TWI and I ignored them as being from the pit. I should of bolted when I lived in an apartment with believers and they said the towels were not hung correctly....huh??? Seriously???
I should of bolted when I didn't understand what they heck they were teaching, but said, Oh it must be me.
I think I was very naive at that age.....and I was really needing a family that loved and accepted me........I should have bolted~
NL, I also was foolish as in my youth. I also wanted a family that loved me; I am glad we both got away from TWI!!
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excathedra
oh thank you
what have i got to frikkin lose?
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Keith
Just for the record, I didn't say VPW didn't rip off Kenyon. Just that at least when I was in he promoted Kenyon's material. I don't want to get into a discussion about Four Crucified. But I've read a lot of research stating two and that stating four (Not TWI or offshoot stuff) and I still find Four makes more sense to me, so I don't totally agree with you there. But as you stated VPW's "research" is flawed and incomplete, I would give you that. On the other hand, I don't think it really matters that much either. Personally if I think about how often the Romans practiced crucifixion I would be surprised if there weren't a lot more than four crucified at the same time he was.
But I'm derailing the thread and I shouldn't.
The first time I was involved with TWI I wasn't given the option to bolt. They just sort of disappeared from my life. In reality, I came back briefly in the late 80s and basically I did bolt. But not as fast as I should have. I should have bolted when I walked in to HQ for the first time in 15 years and saw everyone dressed up in formal dress rather than Jeans and T-shirts which was the norm when I was first there.
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waysider
"I should have bolted when I walked in to HQ for the first time in 15 years and saw everyone dressed up in formal dress rather than Jeans and T-shirts which was the norm when I was first there."
Yeah, it's funny how transitions that happen slowly seem to sneak by you.
One day I was wearing tie-dyed tee shirts and before I even noticed, I was wearing dress shirts and carrying a briefcase.
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newlife
I never heard about Ken Barden.....But, I kind of heard various stories about that LEAD situation.
I suppose there are many stories and situations that I never heard about at the top. I, myself, was a lowly sometimes Leaf, sometimes TC who was always told I had a devil spirit hanging around or was possessed, however no one could help me at the time.......what happened to all that power they had???
I should of bolted when my parents presented me with some facts about TWI and I ignored them as being from the pit. I should of bolted when I lived in an apartment with believers and they said the towels were not hung correctly....huh??? Seriously???
I should of bolted when I didn't understand what they heck they were teaching, but said, Oh it must be me.
I think I was very naive at that age.....and I was really needing a family that loved and accepted me........I should have bolted~
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Keith
And you can imagine what they thought of me when I, along with my wife and several friends walked in wearing jeans and T-shirts and sat front Row center for the service. My second clue that should have led me to bolt earlier was the amazing amount of profanity in the teaching. Yeah, VPW did a little from time to time, but this teaching by LCM was filled with it.
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Twinky
:offtopic:/> Is where I learned to swear so badly. Foul language by LCM in a Sunday night teaching was fairly normal; it was completely, completely, completely, normal in a Corps teaching. Don't know about "the Word," or application of scripture - but I surely learned a lot of offensive words.
... but I was too deeply in, by then.... :(
Shudda gone when they were so legalistic when putting on my first PFAL class!
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Keith
It's not that off topic. The rise in profanity should have have been clear indication that it was time to bolt.
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Nero
That's how my dad was brought into TWI.
My parents should have bolted after their children were treated badly for the umpteenth time.
I bolted at the right time. I was with my spouse and little brother. My spouse was taking their first class. It was embarrassing. My little brother left class after a week - disgusted. My spouse stuck with me and we spent most of our time during the breaks laughing about how creepy the instructors were acting and how homophobic they were (I mean - wow - some of the things they said). I'm so glad we stuck it out - the last day they made fun of the guy who had gone to every class but the last. He had brain cancer and seizures and it was a miracle he was even there. They laughed about him and how he didn't believe enough to be there. They even had a mini fellowship teaching about it.
That was it. The last straw in a long line of uncharitable behavior.
There is no defending that. I didn't want to. I'm glad I left then. There was no doubts.
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WordWolf
Callousness on behalf of leadership is a twi hallmark that began with vpw.
As for the cursing, vpw did it but usually behind closed doors, like with the corps in-residence.
lcm, however, cursed all the time in the 90s, and children were reported to have learned
to curse specifically FROM lcm.
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Nero
We never really got to listen to the tapes with cm much. When we did my dad watched to it before hand and had his thumb on the mute or power button. I didn't realize cm cursed so much until he was gone and my mom told me about it.
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Kit Sober
Cr@i!g M@rtin$ale kicked me out. So I am really grateful. I probably woulda stayed on and on.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, I should have left after I finished the Class. I thought it was boring, from the first class , to the last session.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Out, he said what to you??!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Kit, bingo!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Exci, none of that S--t should have happened to you, or anyone else!!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Nero, they sound like jerks to me! Laughing at someone with Brain Cancer, is pathetic!
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waysider
Date and switch...1972...45 years ago...TWI didn't simply *go bad* over time, it was a cesspool of deception from the beginning.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, I believe that! I took the class in 1978, and went WOW a month after I finished the Class. My WOW year sucked; I was happy to leave the field.
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Grace Valerie Claire
NL, I also was foolish as in my youth. I also wanted a family that loved me; I am glad we both got away from TWI!!
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