Richie DeBartolo, bassist for Joyful Noise, played in a band in Vegas after JN broke up. I never heard any negative stuff about that. Did he get trashed at corps night ever? Robert Schuller (sp) the guy with the crystal palace in CA took pfal. Was that before he was famous?
Richie DeBartolo, bassist for Joyful Noise, played in a band in Vegas after JN broke up. I never heard any negative stuff about that. Did he get trashed at corps night ever?
Not that I recall......but then, that's not really all that unusual.
The guys who took the most verbal trashing from wierwille or martindale
were the Region/Limb coordinators who dissented. Obviously, these leaders
had to be publically ostracized by the mogs.....to set a precedent for others
who might be tempted to follow suit.
Musicians were, oftentimes, given a pass and could simply slip out the side door.
Even the clergy musicians didn't have the clout that a Region/Limb guy had to initiate
an exodus in his own state or region. That's why, I believe, that wierwille knew it
was "wise" to shuffle these guys around every three years so that they didn't build a
reputation and support in the area that would be hard to topple.
Richie DeBartolo, bassist for Joyful Noise, played in a band in Vegas after JN broke up. I never heard any negative stuff about that. Did he get trashed at corps night ever? Robert Schuller (sp) the guy with the crystal palace in CA took pfal. Was that before he was famous?
To my knowledge neither Schuller nor Peale took PFAL, but Wierwille utilized some of their material for the class, even Watchman Nee's Sit, Walk, Stand, borrowing their teachings without citations.
To my knowledge neither Schuller nor Peale took PFAL, but Wierwille utilized some of their material for the class, even Watchman Nee's Sit, Walk, Stand, borrowing their teachings without citations. :smilie_kool_aid:/>
There were often stories about a friend-of-a-friend knowing THIS famous person
or THAT theologian took pfal, joined and quit, or had a direct encounter with
vpw. vpw himself told the story about Normal Vincent Peale, where he claimed
vpw was present at a meeting where Peale claimed to have seen a dead relative
ghost down along with the choir, and said so at the pulpit. According to vpw,
he confronted Peale afterwards on "the Bible says the dead are dead", and Peale
responded by saying he didn't care what the Bible says, he saw them with his
own eyes. (vpw told the story at the mainstage of ROA 79, but it was an earlier
ROA where he gave the name of who he supposedly confronted.) According to vpw,
the man's organization frequently taught such things in its newsletter
(which is Guideposts, but vpw never gave the name).
(That is, ghosts of the dead visiting the living and watching over them...)
Then again, since he didn't drop the name while claiming that part, it should not
be a surprise I can't find any reference to Peale ever saying such things.
Probably was never such a reference in any newsletter, nor such an incident.
Few nowadays would be surprised to discover vpw completely manufacturing an incident
while preaching, and denigrating a Christian leader or leaders in the process.
That's all I've heard about Peale, nothing about him taking pfal.
About Schuller supposedly taking pfal or being involved in twi, I've heard nothing
and such claims sound ridiculous. From the time pfal supposedly began onward,
Schuller was a bigger fish than vpw, consistently.
The only way I'd buy Schuller ever taking it was if vpw had actually marketed pfal
for pastors like Leonard did- which vpw did not, he wanted to use it to build a
congregation of his own, not enhance the congregations of others. IF that had
happened, then PERHAPS Schuller MIGHT have taken it and left- providing Schuller
actually ever HEARD of vpw at the time. By the time vpw had met the hippies,
Schuller already had built entirely new church structures to house his congregation-
all in CALIFORNIA. (Before the internet, Schuller would never have HEARD of
a junior league pastor in the middle of Ohio, let alone left California and his
congregation to sit through his classes.) The more information I look at on
Schuller, the more ridiculous it seems. It's remotely possible they attended
some big conference together like the one where he met Stiles, but other than
only thing in common is Peale and Schuller were RCA(Reformed Church in America) while Wierwille was E&R(Evangelical and German Reformed which became UCC/United Church of Christ) being Zwinglian/Calvinist, nothing else
I had heard that Kenneth Copeland and/or his wife Gloria had taken PFAL. It seemed reasonable to me, as a lot of Copeland's teachings (especially on Christian prosperity) were very similar to VPW's. Of course, now it seems more likely that both men drew on common sources... :)
Even though it was necessary to get all the info out about the plagiarism, and the rocking motion in the coach (and other places) and the other negative and evil things that have come out on these and other boards, I frequently felt a bit embarrassed about it, since I knew his kids would be reading it, and who wants to read that kind of junk about your parents?.
It seems to me that, in 1994 when LCM led twi did the debt purge, the homo purge, and later the unproductive evil purge, that they all foolishly thought that..."now that we've "cleaned up the ministry" and gotten rid of the "bad people" God can once again bless the ministry and we'll see huge outreach and show the world what the "power of God" can accomplish".
I guess they haven't come up with a plan b just yet.
It seems to me that, in 1994 when LCM led twi did the debt purge, the homo purge, and later the unproductive evil purge, that they all foolishly thought that..."now that we've "cleaned up the ministry" and gotten rid of the "bad people" God can once again bless the ministry and we'll see huge outreach and show the world what the "power of God" can accomplish".
I guess they haven't come up with a plan b just yet.
Breaking News
There is no Plan B.
Just keep the trains running on time and hope they don't jump the track.
I had heard that Kenneth Copeland and/or his wife Gloria had taken PFAL. It seemed reasonable to me, as a lot of Copeland's teachings (especially on Christian prosperity) were very similar to VPW's. Of course, now it seems more likely that both men drew on common sources... :)/>
George
Kenyon's Word-Faith stuff was plagiarized freely by a lot of people.
if wierwille's twi were so incredible, why did all of his children leave the org except don after his death?
And Don needed the incredible coincidence of twi shelling out for an entire freaking college
to keep him in. What a coincidence that twi suddenly wanted an educational institution
just as someone who wanted a degree in Education was on his way out-
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Tzaia
The wise ones never stepped in. The smart ones got the heck out quickly. Then there's us'ems. Not sure what to make of that.
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skyrider
Yeah.....I think many of us'ems were good-hearted and spent a lot of time
giving to others. We gave twi leadership every benefit of a doubt UNTIL
the evil & corruption at the root could no longer be rationalized away.
BOTH FEET OUT.....and loving the wide open spaces.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
that's how you do the hokey pokey
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johniam
Richie DeBartolo, bassist for Joyful Noise, played in a band in Vegas after JN broke up. I never heard any negative stuff about that. Did he get trashed at corps night ever? Robert Schuller (sp) the guy with the crystal palace in CA took pfal. Was that before he was famous?
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skyrider
Not that I recall......but then, that's not really all that unusual.
The guys who took the most verbal trashing from wierwille or martindale
were the Region/Limb coordinators who dissented. Obviously, these leaders
had to be publically ostracized by the mogs.....to set a precedent for others
who might be tempted to follow suit.
Musicians were, oftentimes, given a pass and could simply slip out the side door.
Even the clergy musicians didn't have the clout that a Region/Limb guy had to initiate
an exodus in his own state or region. That's why, I believe, that wierwille knew it
was "wise" to shuffle these guys around every three years so that they didn't build a
reputation and support in the area that would be hard to topple.
YMMV
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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WordWolf
There were often stories about a friend-of-a-friend knowing THIS famous person
or THAT theologian took pfal, joined and quit, or had a direct encounter with
vpw. vpw himself told the story about Normal Vincent Peale, where he claimed
vpw was present at a meeting where Peale claimed to have seen a dead relative
ghost down along with the choir, and said so at the pulpit. According to vpw,
he confronted Peale afterwards on "the Bible says the dead are dead", and Peale
responded by saying he didn't care what the Bible says, he saw them with his
own eyes. (vpw told the story at the mainstage of ROA 79, but it was an earlier
ROA where he gave the name of who he supposedly confronted.) According to vpw,
the man's organization frequently taught such things in its newsletter
(which is Guideposts, but vpw never gave the name).
(That is, ghosts of the dead visiting the living and watching over them...)
Then again, since he didn't drop the name while claiming that part, it should not
be a surprise I can't find any reference to Peale ever saying such things.
Probably was never such a reference in any newsletter, nor such an incident.
Few nowadays would be surprised to discover vpw completely manufacturing an incident
while preaching, and denigrating a Christian leader or leaders in the process.
That's all I've heard about Peale, nothing about him taking pfal.
About Schuller supposedly taking pfal or being involved in twi, I've heard nothing
and such claims sound ridiculous. From the time pfal supposedly began onward,
Schuller was a bigger fish than vpw, consistently.
The only way I'd buy Schuller ever taking it was if vpw had actually marketed pfal
for pastors like Leonard did- which vpw did not, he wanted to use it to build a
congregation of his own, not enhance the congregations of others. IF that had
happened, then PERHAPS Schuller MIGHT have taken it and left- providing Schuller
actually ever HEARD of vpw at the time. By the time vpw had met the hippies,
Schuller already had built entirely new church structures to house his congregation-
all in CALIFORNIA. (Before the internet, Schuller would never have HEARD of
a junior league pastor in the middle of Ohio, let alone left California and his
congregation to sit through his classes.) The more information I look at on
Schuller, the more ridiculous it seems. It's remotely possible they attended
some big conference together like the one where he met Stiles, but other than
that, further claims are silly.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
only thing in common is Peale and Schuller were RCA(Reformed Church in America) while Wierwille was E&R(Evangelical and German Reformed which became UCC/United Church of Christ) being Zwinglian/Calvinist, nothing else
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GeorgeStGeorge
I had heard that Kenneth Copeland and/or his wife Gloria had taken PFAL. It seemed reasonable to me, as a lot of Copeland's teachings (especially on Christian prosperity) were very similar to VPW's. Of course, now it seems more likely that both men drew on common sources... :)
George
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chockfull
if wierwille's twi were so incredible, why did all of his children leave the org except don after his death?
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krys
Even though it was necessary to get all the info out about the plagiarism, and the rocking motion in the coach (and other places) and the other negative and evil things that have come out on these and other boards, I frequently felt a bit embarrassed about it, since I knew his kids would be reading it, and who wants to read that kind of junk about your parents?.
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johniam
They were forced out by the same 'A hulls' that forced many of us out. Didn't Rosalie mark and avoid one of her kids?
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johniam
It seems to me that, in 1994 when LCM led twi did the debt purge, the homo purge, and later the unproductive evil purge, that they all foolishly thought that..."now that we've "cleaned up the ministry" and gotten rid of the "bad people" God can once again bless the ministry and we'll see huge outreach and show the world what the "power of God" can accomplish".
I guess they haven't come up with a plan b just yet.
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waysider
Breaking News
There is no Plan B.
Just keep the trains running on time and hope they don't jump the track.
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WordWolf
Kenyon's Word-Faith stuff was plagiarized freely by a lot of people.
And Don needed the incredible coincidence of twi shelling out for an entire freaking college
to keep him in. What a coincidence that twi suddenly wanted an educational institution
just as someone who wanted a degree in Education was on his way out-
yet was someone vpw wanted to keep IN.
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