I don't believe rejection of the trinity is a 'new' or 'recent' thing ?! One only has to look at the Jehovah witnesses and their beginnings and even go back as far as the 1600's with a large movement called Seekers.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seekers is an interesting read.
During PFAL, Wierwille goes into one of his homiletic rants and says, regarding Christ's return, "He's coming back as Lord God Almighty!" I think it's in session #5 but I'm not sure. That was in 1967. As class instructors in the 1970's, we were explicitly instructed to gloss over that section in the teaching and to assure the class (but only if asked) that Wierwille was NOT a trinitarian. I don't know if that helps answer the question.
Thank-you for your replys. It sounds like he was trinitarian and with influence from Lamsa, and maybe others he did change his belief.
And I do remember that in the PFAL class. I remember the first time I heard it, I was surprised, and it did want to question him and his teaching, but like usual, I let it go.....and the class instructor did say it was in error.
Wordwolf, I think you included the word "not" in error when you said that "we know he was originally "not" a trinitarian.....did you mean to say that???
Thank-you for your replys. It sounds like he was trinitarian and with influence from Lamsa, and maybe others he did change his belief.
And I do remember that in the PFAL class. I remember the first time I heard it, I was surprised, and it did want to question him and his teaching, but like usual, I let it go.....and the class instructor did say it was in error.
Wordwolf, I think you included the word "not" in error when you said that "we know he was originally "not" a trinitarian.....did you mean to say that???
Thanks everyone, I think this confirms it to me.
Yes, I made a typo.
We know he was NOT originally a Trinitarian because we have seen documents
where he used a Trinitarian formula long before he met Lamsa and Leonard.
Between Lamsa and Leonard, he had to POVs that differed from the standard
I don't know about extrapolating all that from his teachings, but the info I heard directly from Mrs. W was that early on they didn't understand the trinity or accept it because it didn't make sense to them so they held it in abeyance (like avoiding teaching topics on it) until later when he wrote the book on it and started teaching on it more openly.
With what I know about vp's penchant for plagiarism, I wouldn't be so sure he wrote it.
I don't know about extrapolating all that from his teachings, but the info I heard directly from Mrs. W was that early on they didn't understand the trinity or accept it because it didn't make sense to them so they held it in abeyance (like avoiding teaching topics on it) until later when he wrote the book on it and started teaching on it more openly.
Speaking of Lamsa's influence...perhaps some of you know that he inspired VP to produce an "Aramaic N.T." In 1979 a working copy was printed in paperback. Then a hardcopy was printed in 1983. It was not for sale to the general public or even in The Way Bookstore as far as I know, but copies were around in-house.
Just to clarify: this publication is NOT the interlinear that was published in 1988. This is a N.T. that was printed in-house in the Estrangelo script with NO English translation in it.
I used to have a paperback copy but I don't any longer.
If anyone here has a copy of either the paperback or the hardcover, would you please send me a message or an email?
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Allan
I don't believe rejection of the trinity is a 'new' or 'recent' thing ?! One only has to look at the Jehovah witnesses and their beginnings and even go back as far as the 1600's with a large movement called Seekers.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seekers is an interesting read.
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WordWolf
The short answer: we don't know for certain, but I think so.
The longer answer:
We can say with confidence that vpw was a lazy and indifferent plagiarist.
We do know that he originally was not a Trinitarian because we've even seen
old correspondence of his that included a Trinitarian salutation in the letter.
Obviously, sometime after that, he changed what he thought and taught.
We do know that he basically cobbled together collections of thoughts of other
men and presented them-even when he didn't fully understand them.
(Rare exceptions seem to include his "God Almighty is ok with orgies" thing.)
We do know that Lamsa was not a Trinitarian. We know that vpw interacted with
Lamsa in person before his change in doctrine. We know that vpw ripped off some of Lamsa's
stuff and part of his style.
So, it seems to me the evidence all points in that direction.
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waysider
During PFAL, Wierwille goes into one of his homiletic rants and says, regarding Christ's return, "He's coming back as Lord God Almighty!" I think it's in session #5 but I'm not sure. That was in 1967. As class instructors in the 1970's, we were explicitly instructed to gloss over that section in the teaching and to assure the class (but only if asked) that Wierwille was NOT a trinitarian. I don't know if that helps answer the question.
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newlife
Thank-you for your replys. It sounds like he was trinitarian and with influence from Lamsa, and maybe others he did change his belief.
And I do remember that in the PFAL class. I remember the first time I heard it, I was surprised, and it did want to question him and his teaching, but like usual, I let it go.....and the class instructor did say it was in error.
Wordwolf, I think you included the word "not" in error when you said that "we know he was originally "not" a trinitarian.....did you mean to say that???
Thanks everyone, I think this confirms it to me.
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WordWolf
Yes, I made a typo.
We know he was NOT originally a Trinitarian because we have seen documents
where he used a Trinitarian formula long before he met Lamsa and Leonard.
Between Lamsa and Leonard, he had to POVs that differed from the standard
POV concerning the Trinity.
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chockfull
I don't know about extrapolating all that from his teachings, but the info I heard directly from Mrs. W was that early on they didn't understand the trinity or accept it because it didn't make sense to them so they held it in abeyance (like avoiding teaching topics on it) until later when he wrote the book on it and started teaching on it more openly.
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krys
With what I know about vp's penchant for plagiarism, I wouldn't be so sure he wrote it.
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penworks
Speaking of Lamsa's influence...perhaps some of you know that he inspired VP to produce an "Aramaic N.T." In 1979 a working copy was printed in paperback. Then a hardcopy was printed in 1983. It was not for sale to the general public or even in The Way Bookstore as far as I know, but copies were around in-house.
Just to clarify: this publication is NOT the interlinear that was published in 1988. This is a N.T. that was printed in-house in the Estrangelo script with NO English translation in it.
I used to have a paperback copy but I don't any longer.
If anyone here has a copy of either the paperback or the hardcover, would you please send me a message or an email?
Thanks!
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