There will be no second book, no accounts of the Word moving over the hippies and free love group. Why not?
Why doesn't Rosie and Co. want to publish volume II? Surely, someone in Way Publications could cut-and-paste a sanitized version of wierwille's accomplishments from 1962-1985? I mean, think about it......
1) The filming of the pfal class with details of furniture rental and burning retinas
2) Schmoozing with young bucks and hippies to bring love-ins on grassy knolls in western O-hi-ooo
3) Adjoining the Way West and Way East under one big, money-making tent....TWI
4) Ratcheting up the leadership and cloning with the Way Corps program
5) Moving the corps program to Emporia, KS......a town that never embraced the cult
6) Buying "Sleepy Hollow" on a handshake and setting up camp along the Gunnison river
7) The Family Corps gets a place of its own at Rome City, Indiana
8) LEAD Outdoor Academy and climbing rocks to spiritual heights
9) PFAL '77 .....and the re-making of a class that never was
10) Ministry Events -- Living Victoriously, Passing the Mantle, Sound Out '84
11) Wierwille's Last Teachings and is a martyr in the eyes of cult followers
12) Legacy: A ministry in tatters, offshoots, and exposed for all the world to see
Who wouldn't want to author these highlights in volume II?
Why isn't the talent pool at twi rushing to do this?
I don't really doubt that he studied there. The point is, how long....and what degree did he receive? Obviously he never received any degree otherwise it would have been on a wall behind some glass in his office or coach. As a matter of fact, I studied there myself! Yes I did! I spent 2 weeks during a summer studying hand bells for my former church. But I did study there!! Same with him - - who knows what or for how long. Means nothing.!!!
Mmm...raises an interesting scenario. What if there had been no Corps? VPW's influence would have been weaker, yes, that's a good thing, IMO. Maybe his little cult would have been a bigger flop and not hurt so many people. On the other hand, hurting even one person was one person too many.
Perhaps some of us want to think over this question: would the world would be a better place if twi had not existed at all? Or perhaps it does no good to raise hypothetical questions like that. The fact is we're stuck with what happened. We're tasked with sorting out the good from the bad and the ugly.
Cheers!
Pen, interesting question, would the world have been better off without TWI?? Would we have been better off if we had not gotten involved with TWI?? Wow, good questions!!!
If someone starts a program, 12 people enter it, and 1 person washes out,
we figure the problem was with the 1 person.
If someone starts a program, 12 people enter it, and 12 people wash out,
we figure the problem obviously is with the program.
That means it goes back to who planned the program and who executed
the program.
With the so-called zero corps, those are both the same person-wierwille.
He came up with a concept and executed it, then later discovered he had
no idea what he was doing and it was blowing up in his face.
So he blamed everyone else and closed it up for the moment.
He had much more success with the wow program because so little was
expected of wierwille, and all the hard work was isolated away from him.
People busted their tails all over the US after a few pep talks from him,
and locals were there to help them when there were problems.
That's why the wow program worked when the corps program imploded the
first time around.
WW, the WOW program may have worked for some; but not for others. I knew a lot of WOWs who left before their year(s)ended. I think for most of us, it was a rough year; I know it was for me.
On 6/30/2017 at 6:13 AM, Grace Valerie Claire said:
Pen, interesting question, would the world have been better off without TWI?? Would we have been better off if we had not gotten involved with TWI?? Wow, good questions!!!
Well, as I said before, the reality is that TWI did and still does exist. Each of us had a different sort of experience, which is not news, but I think it is important to remember that fact.
For help in sorting out what happened, I suggest this resource: http://icsahome.com.
I have given a couple of presentations at ICSA conferences and folks find my memoir helpful, too.
...Same with the B.G. Leonard foundational class. Wierwille heads to Calgary, Alberta.....and this class changes his life. Light bulbs go off!! This is class-based multi-level marketing scheme at the end of the rainbow.
So... if we can "blame" the "Zero" corps, can we also "blame" BG Leonard?
After reading Mrs. Wierwille's book twice (yeah, I know....it was a grind) and hundreds of threads on Waydale/GS..... I am convinced that vpw was flying by the seat of his pants. For years, vic was on the lookout for an inflection point whereadulation intersected cash flow.
Wierwille was in a constant search for overnight look-at-me success....ie the spiritual lottery....(snip)
Great point Skyrider - makes me think over a lot of things...
If growth of the ministry was truly of God (along the lines of Acts 2:47 - the LORD ADDED to the church daily...) then why the heavy emphasis on PFAL and all things wierwille in the way corps program? Cuz it seems like the main focus of my corps training was to develop good sales reps and marketing wizards for PFAL - yeah a smattering of Bible stuff thrown in the mix - just for maintaining appearances I suppose - but looking back I think we were all pigeonholed into a small handful of categories that actively sold the wierwille myth or served in some capacity that maintained / supported the wierwille myth...I don't believe the Lord would add anything to an abusive predatory cult....not bless it, validate it or encourage people to join it...of course that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
if God was truly giving the increase I tend to think there would be more of a need to adequately train qualified people to manage a "supernaturally " booming "business" (to be pastors, administrators, counselors, etc. - ya know - what accredited seminaries do)....looking back I think corps training was more about enshrining wierwille as some great one and reminding folks to keep that money rolling in!
== == == ==
Maybe a little off topic here - but I do get it - with any popular product or service in high demand you've gotta get the word out there that it's your business's mission to provide that to customers...but like house cleaning or yard maintenance - you don't really need to sell a lot of working couples on the idea that they should hire someone to do that for them - just need to persuade them why they should hire YOU to do that....
but with wierwille it was a devious marketing scheme - by "reinventing" God, the Bible and the Christian life - mold it into some marketable product and service - since in his mind there was nothing popular or in high demand that he could make a buck off of at the time. So he settled on something that took little time, intelligence, money or effort - plagiarize or hijack the work of others (I use "hijack" in reference to wierwille seizing control of the Jesus movement).
Did wierwille's "reinvention" work? For me it did - or more accurately his con worked on me...my "reconstituted concept" of God, the Bible and the Christian life (courtesy of The Way International's thorough indoctrination process) was a "manageable God" similar to a genie-in-the-lamp who was subject to frequent mood swings....and granted, it was sort of finicky - you had to rub the lamp just right - believe and not just mental assent to it - believe- ya know, just like Luke Skywalker would do in using the Force....make sure you check on what mood wierwille....uhm ...I mean God is in ...yes that's it - check with wierwille on what mood God is in - usually you can gather that by how much the man of God and/or acting prez of TWI berates you over how spiritually deficient you were in handling a particular situation,
also have your needs and wants shaped like a parallelogram ....timing is essential too - (begin music for the 5th Dimension's tune "Age of Nefarious" and start singing ) "when the moonshine (or Drambuie - if you can afford it) is in the 7th house" (that's the way corps chalet log cabin in the way woods )....say "Beetlejuice" 3 times and close with the benediction "when it comes to the turd" - I mean "the word " - (wierwille's word on what the Bible says, that is....ok "turd" same thing) I have no friends" ...
So let's review how we're going to spread the turd - uhm - I mean "the word"
now I'm not being facetious here - over my span of involvement with TWI, leadership taught basic sales tactics - they may have varied a little or were re-packaged differently but they all revolved around PFAL - tell them what PFAL did for you - (so what if you have to fabricate, exaggerate, or embellish a little - or allude to some celebrity who would have taken the class but didn't because they thought it was too good to be true) ;
there were suggestions on how to probe a person to smoke out anything you could latch onto in your sales pitch; and we were never encouraged to actually give them any real answers so that they would feel satisfied and - God forbid - walk away....
Nope - but I do recall a lot of reminders that I keep my focus on whetting their appetite for the stuff in PFAL; find a weakness, deficiency, a need, a desire, a goal....anything ! and tell them how the class will help them take care of that; if you're unable to figure out what they need or want - then "create" a problem for them - with some statements like:
"Oh so you think you really know God, huh? What if I told you there's a way to know him even better and that you could even receive direct revelation from him."
Or
"You think you know the Bible pretty good, huh? Well, did you know there were 4 crucified with Jesus? I can tell you how I found that out and a bunch of other startling truths that most Christians today don't know about."
or
"Tired of not having your prayers answered? Tired of living a life that is not abundant ? You know, they don't teach how to tap into the power of God in seminaries or the churches! Come to my Twig tonight and bring your check book. I'll fill you in on the greatest secret in the world today" (alright - I didn't say the part about "bring you check book" but I was sure "believing" they would bring their check book or cash and be ready to pay for the class that night - and in considering my dismal sales record I guess I wasn't "believing" for most of my career in sales)
== == == ==
So bringing it back to "inflection point".......To start a business you need to find your niche and get the word out about your ability to provide that product or service....i think wierwille's dream WAS that inflection point - to receive the recognition AND money he felt he deserved...and an easy way of going about that was by redirecting any young impressionable folks in search of something ( I think THAT was his niche* ) - he put up a little detour sign - redirecting them right down the road to the intersection of wierwille adulation and their purse strings.
* Note on niche - i can only imagine how wierwille figured out his niche if he used a typical find-your-niche checklist:
1.identify your interests and passions: money, sex and power…check !
2.identify problems you can solve: find ways to exploit impressionable youths…check !
3.research the competition: plagiarizing material and hijacking a customer base…check !
4.determine the profitability of your niche - calculate the benefit or return on investment (ROI) by dividing it by the cost of the investment, usually expressed as a percentage or ratio: selling stolen goods is 100 % profitable…check !
5.test your idea: zero corps failed…if at first the indoctrination process does not succeed, try and try again…check !
Speaking only for myself, I don't mind when threads go off on tangents...as long as the tangents aren't meant to deliberately change the topic. I think we've all seen our share of those. But having a little peripheral fun? I'm cool with it.
BTW: In the U.S., we say "bug" off. (Like when you chase away a pesky mosquito or something.) Close enough for me, though.
Waysider, a "bog" is a very slangy none-too-posh term for a toilet. Lavatory. That thing you put turds down.
["Bog off" is a rather rude way of telling someone to go away. It's rather more offensive than telling someone to "bug off" or even to "bug(ger) off."]
Heh, my Corps bros (also internationals) had a lot of fun on one occasion teaching Brit/Commonwealth slang to unsuspecting Americans. There are some words ...that you just don't use in polite society. Found out about it when someone came to me and said, "R and P say that this expression means..." and they watched my eyes grow wide and my jaw drop. "Hmm," said this person. "I didn't think it meant what they said it did."
Waysider, a "bog" is a very slangy none-too-posh term for a toilet. Lavatory. That thing you put turds down.
["Bog off" is a rather rude way of telling someone to go away. It's rather more offensive than telling someone to "bug off" or even to "bug(ger) off."]
Oh, O.K. Our equivalent would be ".pizz off".
Edited by waysider edit for auto censor. The zz should be ss.
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WordWolf
vpw had no experience whatsoever with leadership programs, whether in-residence or not. vpw had no experience whatsoever with the military, not even ROTC, Reserves, nor the National Guard. vpw clai
Twinky
Naw... let's just blame the thief. The zero teacher.
Twinky
Didn't you mean feces-ious?
skyrider
Why doesn't Rosie and Co. want to publish volume II? Surely, someone in Way Publications could cut-and-paste a sanitized version of wierwille's accomplishments from 1962-1985? I mean, think about it......
1) The filming of the pfal class with details of furniture rental and burning retinas
2) Schmoozing with young bucks and hippies to bring love-ins on grassy knolls in western O-hi-ooo
3) Adjoining the Way West and Way East under one big, money-making tent....TWI
4) Ratcheting up the leadership and cloning with the Way Corps program
5) Moving the corps program to Emporia, KS......a town that never embraced the cult
6) Buying "Sleepy Hollow" on a handshake and setting up camp along the Gunnison river
7) The Family Corps gets a place of its own at Rome City, Indiana
8) LEAD Outdoor Academy and climbing rocks to spiritual heights
9) PFAL '77 .....and the re-making of a class that never was
10) Ministry Events -- Living Victoriously, Passing the Mantle, Sound Out '84
11) Wierwille's Last Teachings and is a martyr in the eyes of cult followers
12) Legacy: A ministry in tatters, offshoots, and exposed for all the world to see
Who wouldn't want to author these highlights in volume II?
Why isn't the talent pool at twi rushing to do this?
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Ham
I'm glad you've learned to laugh..
I suppose the situation is so comical, one can't really help oneself..
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
wish John Juddes would explore that subject
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GeorgeStGeorge
Raf is a journalist...
George
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krys
I don't really doubt that he studied there. The point is, how long....and what degree did he receive? Obviously he never received any degree otherwise it would have been on a wall behind some glass in his office or coach. As a matter of fact, I studied there myself! Yes I did! I spent 2 weeks during a summer studying hand bells for my former church. But I did study there!! Same with him - - who knows what or for how long. Means nothing.!!!
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Ham
There are now FERPA issues to deal with..
FOI might not be enough to ply personal information out of any institution, even if the said subject is long past dead.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Pen, interesting question, would the world have been better off without TWI?? Would we have been better off if we had not gotten involved with TWI?? Wow, good questions!!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Thomas, that is a good question. But, I am thankful that TWI opened my eyes to the beauty of God; I will be forever grateful for that.
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, the WOW program may have worked for some; but not for others. I knew a lot of WOWs who left before their year(s)ended. I think for most of us, it was a rough year; I know it was for me.
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penworks
Well, as I said before, the reality is that TWI did and still does exist. Each of us had a different sort of experience, which is not news, but I think it is important to remember that fact.
For help in sorting out what happened, I suggest this resource: http://icsahome.com.
I have given a couple of presentations at ICSA conferences and folks find my memoir helpful, too.
Cheers,
Charlene
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Twinky
So... if we can "blame" the "Zero" corps, can we also "blame" BG Leonard?
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Twinky
Naw... let's just blame the thief. The zero teacher.
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T-Bone
Great point Skyrider - makes me think over a lot of things...
If growth of the ministry was truly of God (along the lines of Acts 2:47 - the LORD ADDED to the church daily...) then why the heavy emphasis on PFAL and all things wierwille in the way corps program? Cuz it seems like the main focus of my corps training was to develop good sales reps and marketing wizards for PFAL - yeah a smattering of Bible stuff thrown in the mix - just for maintaining appearances I suppose - but looking back I think we were all pigeonholed into a small handful of categories that actively sold the wierwille myth or served in some capacity that maintained / supported the wierwille myth...I don't believe the Lord would add anything to an abusive predatory cult....not bless it, validate it or encourage people to join it...of course that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
if God was truly giving the increase I tend to think there would be more of a need to adequately train qualified people to manage a "supernaturally " booming "business" (to be pastors, administrators, counselors, etc. - ya know - what accredited seminaries do)....looking back I think corps training was more about enshrining wierwille as some great one and reminding folks to keep that money rolling in!
== == == ==
Maybe a little off topic here - but I do get it - with any popular product or service in high demand you've gotta get the word out there that it's your business's mission to provide that to customers...but like house cleaning or yard maintenance - you don't really need to sell a lot of working couples on the idea that they should hire someone to do that for them - just need to persuade them why they should hire YOU to do that....
but with wierwille it was a devious marketing scheme - by "reinventing" God, the Bible and the Christian life - mold it into some marketable product and service - since in his mind there was nothing popular or in high demand that he could make a buck off of at the time. So he settled on something that took little time, intelligence, money or effort - plagiarize or hijack the work of others (I use "hijack" in reference to wierwille seizing control of the Jesus movement).
Did wierwille's "reinvention" work? For me it did - or more accurately his con worked on me...my "reconstituted concept" of God, the Bible and the Christian life (courtesy of The Way International's thorough indoctrination process) was a "manageable God" similar to a genie-in-the-lamp who was subject to frequent mood swings....and granted, it was sort of finicky - you had to rub the lamp just right - believe and not just mental assent to it - believe- ya know, just like Luke Skywalker would do in using the Force....make sure you check on what mood wierwille....uhm ...I mean God is in ...yes that's it - check with wierwille on what mood God is in - usually you can gather that by how much the man of God and/or acting prez of TWI berates you over how spiritually deficient you were in handling a particular situation,
also have your needs and wants shaped like a parallelogram ....timing is essential too - (begin music for the 5th Dimension's tune "Age of Nefarious" and start singing ) "when the moonshine (or Drambuie - if you can afford it) is in the 7th house" (that's the way corps chalet log cabin in the way woods )....say "Beetlejuice" 3 times and close with the benediction "when it comes to the turd" - I mean "the word " - (wierwille's word on what the Bible says, that is....ok "turd" same thing) I have no friends" ...
So let's review how we're going to spread the turd - uhm - I mean "the word"
now I'm not being facetious here - over my span of involvement with TWI, leadership taught basic sales tactics - they may have varied a little or were re-packaged differently but they all revolved around PFAL - tell them what PFAL did for you - (so what if you have to fabricate, exaggerate, or embellish a little - or allude to some celebrity who would have taken the class but didn't because they thought it was too good to be true) ;
there were suggestions on how to probe a person to smoke out anything you could latch onto in your sales pitch; and we were never encouraged to actually give them any real answers so that they would feel satisfied and - God forbid - walk away....
Nope - but I do recall a lot of reminders that I keep my focus on whetting their appetite for the stuff in PFAL; find a weakness, deficiency, a need, a desire, a goal....anything ! and tell them how the class will help them take care of that; if you're unable to figure out what they need or want - then "create" a problem for them - with some statements like:
"Oh so you think you really know God, huh? What if I told you there's a way to know him even better and that you could even receive direct revelation from him."
Or
"You think you know the Bible pretty good, huh? Well, did you know there were 4 crucified with Jesus? I can tell you how I found that out and a bunch of other startling truths that most Christians today don't know about."
or
"Tired of not having your prayers answered? Tired of living a life that is not abundant ? You know, they don't teach how to tap into the power of God in seminaries or the churches! Come to my Twig tonight and bring your check book. I'll fill you in on the greatest secret in the world today" (alright - I didn't say the part about "bring you check book" but I was sure "believing" they would bring their check book or cash and be ready to pay for the class that night - and in considering my dismal sales record I guess I wasn't "believing" for most of my career in sales)
== == == ==
So bringing it back to "inflection point".......To start a business you need to find your niche and get the word out about your ability to provide that product or service....i think wierwille's dream WAS that inflection point - to receive the recognition AND money he felt he deserved...and an easy way of going about that was by redirecting any young impressionable folks in search of something ( I think THAT was his niche * ) - he put up a little detour sign - redirecting them right down the road to the intersection of wierwille adulation and their purse strings.
* Note on niche - i can only imagine how wierwille figured out his niche if he used a typical find-your-niche checklist:
1. identify your interests and passions: money, sex and power…check !
2. identify problems you can solve: find ways to exploit impressionable youths…check !
3. research the competition: plagiarizing material and hijacking a customer base…check !
4. determine the profitability of your niche - calculate the benefit or return on investment (ROI) by dividing it by the cost of the investment, usually expressed as a percentage or ratio: selling stolen goods is 100 % profitable…check !
5. test your idea: zero corps failed…if at first the indoctrination process does not succeed, try and try again…check !
Edited by T-BoneClarity and bonus features
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Twinky
Didn't you mean feces-ious?
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, how punny of you!!
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T-Bone
oh snap - you funny girl !
well, a turd to the wise is sufficient...or some proverb like that
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Twinky
"Turd of wisdom"? Turd of knowledge?
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Twinky
Very sorry for derailing your thread, Sky. You can tell T-Bone and me to "bog off" if you like.
(Does that trans-a-late into American?)
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waysider
Speaking only for myself, I don't mind when threads go off on tangents...as long as the tangents aren't meant to deliberately change the topic. I think we've all seen our share of those. But having a little peripheral fun? I'm cool with it.
BTW: In the U.S., we say "bug" off. (Like when you chase away a pesky mosquito or something.) Close enough for me, though.
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Twinky
Waysider, a "bog" is a very slangy none-too-posh term for a toilet. Lavatory. That thing you put turds down.
["Bog off" is a rather rude way of telling someone to go away. It's rather more offensive than telling someone to "bug off" or even to "bug(ger) off."]
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Twinky
Heh, my Corps bros (also internationals) had a lot of fun on one occasion teaching Brit/Commonwealth slang to unsuspecting Americans. There are some words ...that you just don't use in polite society. Found out about it when someone came to me and said, "R and P say that this expression means..." and they watched my eyes grow wide and my jaw drop. "Hmm," said this person. "I didn't think it meant what they said it did."
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Twinky
And now back to our regularly scheduled program, "The Ceroc Teacher." Oh sorry, the Zero Teacher.
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waysider
Oh, O.K. Our equivalent would be ".pizz off".
Edited by waysideredit for auto censor. The zz should be ss.
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Twinky
Yeah, but probably a bit ruder. Coarser.
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