I am wondering if Dr. G. R. is your instructor for this class. If so, I think he meets the criteria you set in your sentence, "The best teachers in theology help the student learn rather than teaching them a certain dogma." I have also found this to be the case with many other instructors at the University.
I remember writing my Theological Reflection paper, but I can't for the life of me remember what I wrote about. I'll have to recover the content of my crashed hard drive to pull it back up. I like your paper, and look forward to exploring some of these things with you over the next few years!
I am wondering if Dr. G. R. is your instructor for this class. If so, I think he meets the criteria you set in your sentence, "The best teachers in theology help the student learn rather than teaching them a certain dogma." I have also found this to be the case with many other instructors at the University.
I remember writing my Theological Reflection paper, but I can't for the life of me remember what I wrote about. I'll have to recover the content of my crashed hard drive to pull it back up. I like your paper, and look forward to exploring some of these things with you over the next few years!
Love,
Steve
Yes it is Dr. Robertson. I really enjoy his approach to theology and teaching. It is a breath of fresh air when compared to when I went to one of my undergrad colleges that was a fundamental baptist college.
That the bible fits like a hand in a glove, that "all nine all the time" was a practical reality, that "name it and claim it" was an acceptable and effective way to receive the blessings of God, etc., etc...
Things along those lines, Steve.
On rare occasions, I'll listen to an old Sunday Night Teaching by the Vicster and be amazed at his rhetorical skills.
Too bad he preached a lot of error and allowed evil to dominate in his life.
But the real tipping point was LCM claiming that God couldn't spit in my direction if I wasn't giving money above and beyond the tithe. At that moment I remember realizing, without the usual mental fog and anxiety that usually attended such thoughts, that TWI's priorities and practices weren't really biblical. The next day I began my organized withdrawal from the ministry.
That got me rethinking the doctrines I had internalized. I hung with the offshoots for a while, especially CES, but eventually that wore thin as well.
Then, on a whim, I picked up "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman and my world of othordoxy got rocked.
I called on God to help me in the name of Jesus Christ seven years BEFORE I ever heard of TWI and PFAL, and He started teaching me how to change the things that were in my heart. The first twig meeting I went to, the lady teaching was teaching on Philippians 4:6&7. It blew me away, because God had taught me the same thing experientially only a few months before. I decided to stick around and see what else I could learn. Wierwille preached a lot of things that were true, but what he taught and practiced was error. There were a lot of people at the twig level who were doing their best to love God and love His people, and God worked a lot through them.
Ask God to show you what He was doing for you back then, and be thankful for it. He'll show you what He's doing for you now, too! He blessed us in allowing us to escape from the bad things.
But the real tipping point was LCM claiming that God couldn't spit in my direction if I wasn't giving money above and beyond the tithe. At that moment I remember realizing, without the usual mental fog and anxiety that usually attended such thoughts, that TWI's priorities and practices weren't really biblical. The next day I began my organized withdrawal from the ministry.
That got me rethinking the doctrines I had internalized. I hung with the offshoots for a while, especially CES, but eventually that wore thin as well.
Then, on a whim, I picked up "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman and my world of othordoxy got rocked.
-JJ
I just hope you didn't stop your rethinking once you read Ehrman.
It's not uncommon- especially among people who more recently left groups like twi,
or among young people exposed to few ideas-
to come across a very different set of ideas, expressed cleverly,
then dogmatically embrace those with all the fervor of the previous ones.
That's just trading one set of dogmatic beliefs for another.
None of this means YOU did that, but it is possible, so I hope for your sake
Yeah, WordWolf, I'm laughing to myself after reading your post. That's basically what I did when I went to the offshoots and the Church of God, Abrahamic Faith. These days I spend much more time evaluating what people are selling, no matter what the source. I've found I enjoy the process and that it's really a lifelong effort.
Steve, I definitely agree that at the twig level there were some fine people doing wonderful things. That's probably why I hung out as long as I did.
Sorry, I thought this thread was dead. Yeah... Great convo... I would like to add that Ehrman's friendly counterpart is Daniel Wallance and I have a mentor, someone who went to class with them in Seminary studying under Bruce Medzker (can't promise)... That they both encourage diving in on your own even though they are two opposites in the topic of religion. I love the questioning!
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Steve Lortz
Nate,
I am wondering if Dr. G. R. is your instructor for this class. If so, I think he meets the criteria you set in your sentence, "The best teachers in theology help the student learn rather than teaching them a certain dogma." I have also found this to be the case with many other instructors at the University.
I remember writing my Theological Reflection paper, but I can't for the life of me remember what I wrote about. I'll have to recover the content of my crashed hard drive to pull it back up. I like your paper, and look forward to exploring some of these things with you over the next few years!
Love,
Steve
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Naten00
Yes it is Dr. Robertson. I really enjoy his approach to theology and teaching. It is a breath of fresh air when compared to when I went to one of my undergrad colleges that was a fundamental baptist college.
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JumpinJive
I started looking into textual criticism and the historical Jesus and that pretty much broke me of any orthodoxy I had left.
I have to admit though, it hung on for a long time and even now, some 25 years after leaving The Way, I sometimes find myself wishing it were true.
Oh well, live and learn.
-JJ
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Steve Lortz
Sometimes wishing what were true, JJ?
Love,
Steve
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JumpinJive
That the bible fits like a hand in a glove, that "all nine all the time" was a practical reality, that "name it and claim it" was an acceptable and effective way to receive the blessings of God, etc., etc...
Things along those lines, Steve.
On rare occasions, I'll listen to an old Sunday Night Teaching by the Vicster and be amazed at his rhetorical skills.
Too bad he preached a lot of error and allowed evil to dominate in his life.
-JJ
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JumpinJive
But the real tipping point was LCM claiming that God couldn't spit in my direction if I wasn't giving money above and beyond the tithe. At that moment I remember realizing, without the usual mental fog and anxiety that usually attended such thoughts, that TWI's priorities and practices weren't really biblical. The next day I began my organized withdrawal from the ministry.
That got me rethinking the doctrines I had internalized. I hung with the offshoots for a while, especially CES, but eventually that wore thin as well.
Then, on a whim, I picked up "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman and my world of othordoxy got rocked.
-JJ
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Steve Lortz
I called on God to help me in the name of Jesus Christ seven years BEFORE I ever heard of TWI and PFAL, and He started teaching me how to change the things that were in my heart. The first twig meeting I went to, the lady teaching was teaching on Philippians 4:6&7. It blew me away, because God had taught me the same thing experientially only a few months before. I decided to stick around and see what else I could learn. Wierwille preached a lot of things that were true, but what he taught and practiced was error. There were a lot of people at the twig level who were doing their best to love God and love His people, and God worked a lot through them.
Ask God to show you what He was doing for you back then, and be thankful for it. He'll show you what He's doing for you now, too! He blessed us in allowing us to escape from the bad things.
Love,
Steve
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WordWolf
I just hope you didn't stop your rethinking once you read Ehrman.
It's not uncommon- especially among people who more recently left groups like twi,
or among young people exposed to few ideas-
to come across a very different set of ideas, expressed cleverly,
then dogmatically embrace those with all the fervor of the previous ones.
That's just trading one set of dogmatic beliefs for another.
None of this means YOU did that, but it is possible, so I hope for your sake
you're putting more thought into this.
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JumpinJive
Good points, guys!
Yeah, WordWolf, I'm laughing to myself after reading your post. That's basically what I did when I went to the offshoots and the Church of God, Abrahamic Faith. These days I spend much more time evaluating what people are selling, no matter what the source. I've found I enjoy the process and that it's really a lifelong effort.
Steve, I definitely agree that at the twig level there were some fine people doing wonderful things. That's probably why I hung out as long as I did.
Hey, ya think we're helping Nate? :)
-JJ
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Naten00
Sorry, I thought this thread was dead. Yeah... Great convo... I would like to add that Ehrman's friendly counterpart is Daniel Wallance and I have a mentor, someone who went to class with them in Seminary studying under Bruce Medzker (can't promise)... That they both encourage diving in on your own even though they are two opposites in the topic of religion. I love the questioning!
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