couples got pregnant got abortions then couldn't take it anymore and wanted to keep baby. so they had to go LOA (leave of absence) and then looked down upon for lack of commitment. then didn't come back to family corps and were DFAC (dropped from active corps) then were looked upon as sheet on the field then then then
hopefully they know they did the beautiful right thing. one's mind gets twisted with all the pressure too sad
Well, I don't post much any more but I had to get in on this one.
The TWI "dating" policy was absolutely absurd. I can't imagine a lousier way to show the love of Christ to someone than telling them they have to take a Bible class to go out for coffee or whatever.
Just...I can't really think of anything specific to say.
And the Spouse Corps thing? Had a former in-law go through that and instantly develop a "WE, the Way Corps" attitude that made me want to smack her in the mouth.
I know some wonderful people who are FLO and WC grads and I thank God for their lives. But the program (FLO) itself...sheesh, there were good times, but I am pleased to say I never took a whole lotta organic fertilizer off anyone. And the best thing I got out of FLO? Why, Mr. Garden, of course!
After *lots* of faithful service, I asked local clergy to marry my wife and I. They said "after she takes the class". Well, she took the class and they still wouldn't do it. We got married by a Universal Life minister". 28 years ago. Still together. My daughter did her first wedding service as a Universal Life minister two weeks ago. The circle is complete. Without TWI.
Doing your laundry together was about as close as you could get to an actual date. I mean, you couldn't really do normal stuff, like go out to dinner and a movie or go to a club (no alcohol rule). And, there was the obligatory night twig at 10PM and the midnight curfew. Except, one time, we were "ordered" to go out on dates, one Saturday night. We were encouraged to double date and, of course, the curfew and alcohol restrictions were still in effect. I was 25 years old fer cryin' out loud! What the hell was I thinking, letting them treat me like an eighth grader?
One time when there was a youth advance and I was forbidden to go because I was over 30, Mr. Garden and I took off on a day trip to Athens and Hocking Counties. He decided not to go because I wouldn't be there, bless him, and we had a blast. I felt like I was playing hookey from life! He drove my little Toyota up and down hills and around curves at what seemed like breakneck speeds, we ate out in a real restaurant, and stayed out late.
I was in MS as a Corps Grad, and was in a meeting where the Branch Leader's wife was ranting about two WOWs who got into a relationship and female WOW got pregnant. The two wanted to get married and keep the baby. BL wife was ranting how that was unacceptable because female WOW was apprentice Corps and she should get an abortion, dump her lover and still go into the Corps.
Even though I was Way-brained, I was wondering about what was so terrible about two people in love who wanted to keep their baby. Just shows how perverse the standards of TWI were. No common decency or respect for life or of people's own free will.
I was in MS as a Corps Grad, and was in a meeting where the Branch Leader's wife was ranting about two WOWs who got into a relationship and female WOW got pregnant. The two wanted to get married and keep the baby. BL wife was ranting how that was unacceptable because female WOW was apprentice Corps and she should get an abortion, dump her lover and still go into the Corps.
Even though I was Way-brained, I was wondering about what was so terrible about two people in love who wanted to keep their baby. Just shows how perverse the standards of TWI were. No common decency or respect for life or of people's own free will.
In real Christian groups,
this would be seen as a no-brainer.
A couple fooled around, and there's a baby on the way.
What should they do?
Duh-they get married and raise the child.
You'd get odd looks suggesting there were other options.
And the idea that it would be BETTER to have an abortion and end the
relationship because they were supposed to enter a program- or stay in
a program- of the group would get everyone to stare at you as if you'd
lost your mind-which they'd suspect happened if you said that.
I was in MS as a Corps Grad, and was in a meeting where the Branch Leader's wife was ranting about two WOWs who got into a relationship and female WOW got pregnant. The two wanted to get married and keep the baby. BL wife was ranting how that was unacceptable because female WOW was apprentice Corps and she should get an abortion, dump her lover and still go into the Corps.
Even though I was Way-brained, I was wondering about what was so terrible about two people in love who wanted to keep their baby. Just shows how perverse the standards of TWI were. No common decency or respect for life or of people's own free will.
I was counseled at HQ that my wife should have a late term abortion because health problems were detected during the ultrasound. My son is alive, well, and healthy. Goes to show how sick TWI really is.
I was counseled at HQ that my wife should have a late term abortion because health problems were detected during the ultrasound. My son is alive, well, and healthy. Goes to show how sick TWI really is.
I can hear it coming now - - there is almost always a raging discussion over this topic- - but I'm gonna say it anyway!
Who the hell are "we" to decide for somebody else what they should do governing one of the most important decisions of their lives! Why should somebody tell somebody else to abort their late or early term *foetus* because 2 years ago they swore allegiance to the corps - - or having been graduated out of the corps only 2 years ago...it's not their turn yet to start a family!
I can only speak for myself but, when I became involved with The Way, I felt like I was a part of something bigger than myself. Maybe that partially explains why we allowed them to subject us to unreasonable social criteria. It was a way of rationalizing the sacrifice of our own happiness for the good of the group.
I dated a fellow believer in high school (late 90s). I remember when at the advanced class together one of our friends got really sick and had to go to the hospital. She had tears in her eyes and I put my arm around her to try and console her. That was enough to earn a stern talking to the next day, we were there to hear the word, not be physical... wtf?? [if they only knew what we did when they were not looking!]
We went off to different colleges, grew a bit apart, and I was kind of a jerk. I regret how it ended. My next girlfriend was not in The Way and I was strongly encouraged to bring her to fellowship. After bringing her to one she pretty much told me "you are in a cult" and really helped bring all my doubts to the surface, and helped me to leave.
My "believer" girlfriend was there for me at a really hard point in my life though, we both had our doubts about The Way and talked about it a few times. I know she no longer attends either as she married outside of the organization.
Anyway, thought I would share those examples of dating in The Way and how they contributed to members leaving.
When I first was introduced to TWI, I could date anyone, though at that time I knew no one woman personally in the Corps that wasn't already married. I had no trouble getting dates. When I got to the Advanced Class level in '86, I could still date whomever I wanted but began to suspect that single Corps women were not available, at least to me. I also began to see the teaching that TWI believers only marry TWI believers. When I went into the Corps, I was flat told only to date other Corps women in my apprentice year or in residence, but I couldn't marry while in the Corps program. I did see how this was not working out...for the women. As time progressed, it seemed there were many more women than men in the Corps program. The math wasn't adding up. It was fine for me to date any in the program, but found out later that it was discouraged for me to date a single woman Corps grad, making those women having men even less available. When I left the Corps program, I was chastised, marked and avoided, and I could date no one in TWI. So I dated ex-believers. To my discouragement, many of the ex-believer women required I belong to their off-shoot. I decided to just enter society again and married my current wife Debbie in February 2000. Granted, Debbie, who was looking for a home church, an myself decided to get with Christian Family Fellowship. They had no rules on who to marry so long as she was a Christian woman, per the Bible. John Shroyer and Jeff Rath married us. Later, my beliefs did not line completely up with the old Wierwille teachings and we parted ways amicably. We have joined a mainline Christian Church, and yes, occasionally cringe at teachings they give, but have decided that no one ministry has all the truth. We simply go by the foundational belief that Jesus is the Son of God, Lord and Savior, died for our sins, and was raised from the dead. Not too many from the old Way will fellowship with us anymore. We have moved on, and know all these differences will be ironed out by God in the end, and really hold no ill will. There is no point to that. We sure would like to fellowship with them again, the same as when I was first introduced into the Way, before it became so legalistic.
I was in MS as a Corps Grad, and was in a meeting where the Branch Leader's wife was ranting about two WOWs who got into a relationship and female WOW got pregnant. The two wanted to get married and keep the baby. BL wife was ranting how that was unacceptable because female WOW was apprentice Corps and she should get an abortion, dump her lover and still go into the Corps.
Even though I was Way-brained, I was wondering about what was so terrible about two people in love who wanted to keep their baby. Just shows how perverse the standards of TWI were. No common decency or respect for life or of people's own free will.
That happened to me as wow / app corpes. State leaders step in and let you know that there are only two choices...you either keep your commitment to god and destroy the parasitical cells or you turn our back on him and against the ministry who taught you the greatness of gods word. God or your unborn child....i chose,...you never really get over it :(
Thanks way sider n out n about....i guess it was kind of new and fresh because after nearly thirty years just last week i finally told some follks, my daughter one of them ,here about some of it....still couldnt admit it waas me...just shariing the scriptures used to force people into decisions they wouldn't normally make.
I am still married to the fellow I dated in twi. But I look back and it wasn't dating...not really. You attended twi functions together. You volunteered to work together at events. You analyzed logically whether the person was suitable for you to move the word with....ie how many classes adv. class corpses...wow years ...etc.what did your twig leader area color n state leader think. If you didn't have their blessing, it was a no go because one certainly didn't wish to be unequally yoked.
Personal feelings tended to be secondary, IMO. Not to mention there was rarely money to just go to dinner or a movie to simply enjoy one another's company lol.
I think many of us were surprised when we left twi and the facade fell away to find that out that you had nothing in common with your life partner.
For some reason I am reminded of a couple who had been living together for a year or so got into TWI and registered for a class requiring a hotel stay. The leader involved (ordained, WC, LC etc.) wouldn't let them stay in the same room together as they were not married and he was "taking a stand" against sexual impropriety. The couple naturally concluded that how these people act is different than what they say, and was never to be seen again.
Moral of the story?
The higher you go in TWI, the more likely you are to run into a leader with the IQ of a small soap dish, as those qualities are promoted, and this causes more attrition to TWI which counteracts any of their good acts. And the group shrinks.
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Eagle
When I first was introduced to TWI, I could date anyone, though at that time I knew no one woman personally in the Corps that wasn't already married. I had no trouble getting dates. When I got to the
chockfull
For some reason I am reminded of a couple who had been living together for a year or so got into TWI and registered for a class requiring a hotel stay. The leader involved (ordained, WC, LC etc.) wou
excathedra
couples got pregnant got abortions then couldn't take it anymore and wanted to keep baby. so they had to go LOA (leave of absence) and then looked down upon for lack of commitment. then didn't come back to family corps and were DFAC (dropped from active corps) then were looked upon as sheet on the field then then then
hopefully they know they did the beautiful right thing. one's mind gets twisted with all the pressure too sad
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waysider
Just like the green card says, "Increases harmony in the home".
:(
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Watered Garden
Well, I don't post much any more but I had to get in on this one.
The TWI "dating" policy was absolutely absurd. I can't imagine a lousier way to show the love of Christ to someone than telling them they have to take a Bible class to go out for coffee or whatever.
Just...I can't really think of anything specific to say.
And the Spouse Corps thing? Had a former in-law go through that and instantly develop a "WE, the Way Corps" attitude that made me want to smack her in the mouth.
I know some wonderful people who are FLO and WC grads and I thank God for their lives. But the program (FLO) itself...sheesh, there were good times, but I am pleased to say I never took a whole lotta organic fertilizer off anyone. And the best thing I got out of FLO? Why, Mr. Garden, of course!
Sorry for the rambling. A little tired today.
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Jim
Yeah. Been there, done that.
After *lots* of faithful service, I asked local clergy to marry my wife and I. They said "after she takes the class". Well, she took the class and they still wouldn't do it. We got married by a Universal Life minister". 28 years ago. Still together. My daughter did her first wedding service as a Universal Life minister two weeks ago. The circle is complete. Without TWI.
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waysider
Dating in FLO (FellowLaborers of Ohio)
Heh!
Doing your laundry together was about as close as you could get to an actual date. I mean, you couldn't really do normal stuff, like go out to dinner and a movie or go to a club (no alcohol rule). And, there was the obligatory night twig at 10PM and the midnight curfew. Except, one time, we were "ordered" to go out on dates, one Saturday night. We were encouraged to double date and, of course, the curfew and alcohol restrictions were still in effect. I was 25 years old fer cryin' out loud! What the hell was I thinking, letting them treat me like an eighth grader?
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Watered Garden
Wasn't that weird?
One time when there was a youth advance and I was forbidden to go because I was over 30, Mr. Garden and I took off on a day trip to Athens and Hocking Counties. He decided not to go because I wouldn't be there, bless him, and we had a blast. I felt like I was playing hookey from life! He drove my little Toyota up and down hills and around curves at what seemed like breakneck speeds, we ate out in a real restaurant, and stayed out late.
Such fun!
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outandabout
I was in MS as a Corps Grad, and was in a meeting where the Branch Leader's wife was ranting about two WOWs who got into a relationship and female WOW got pregnant. The two wanted to get married and keep the baby. BL wife was ranting how that was unacceptable because female WOW was apprentice Corps and she should get an abortion, dump her lover and still go into the Corps.
Even though I was Way-brained, I was wondering about what was so terrible about two people in love who wanted to keep their baby. Just shows how perverse the standards of TWI were. No common decency or respect for life or of people's own free will.
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excathedra
that was sadly too common outie
did the damn BL wife have kids
makes me sick really sick
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outandabout
Strangely enough, she never got pregnant. Karma's a bitch.
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WordWolf
In real Christian groups,
this would be seen as a no-brainer.
A couple fooled around, and there's a baby on the way.
What should they do?
Duh-they get married and raise the child.
You'd get odd looks suggesting there were other options.
And the idea that it would be BETTER to have an abortion and end the
relationship because they were supposed to enter a program- or stay in
a program- of the group would get everyone to stare at you as if you'd
lost your mind-which they'd suspect happened if you said that.
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OldSkool
I was counseled at HQ that my wife should have a late term abortion because health problems were detected during the ultrasound. My son is alive, well, and healthy. Goes to show how sick TWI really is.
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outandabout
Good for you for not listening to those d1psh1ts.
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krys
I can hear it coming now - - there is almost always a raging discussion over this topic- - but I'm gonna say it anyway!
Who the hell are "we" to decide for somebody else what they should do governing one of the most important decisions of their lives! Why should somebody tell somebody else to abort their late or early term *foetus* because 2 years ago they swore allegiance to the corps - - or having been graduated out of the corps only 2 years ago...it's not their turn yet to start a family!
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waysider
I can only speak for myself but, when I became involved with The Way, I felt like I was a part of something bigger than myself. Maybe that partially explains why we allowed them to subject us to unreasonable social criteria. It was a way of rationalizing the sacrifice of our own happiness for the good of the group.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Removed.... by request. The info points to a specific individual.
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antiscenekid
I dated a fellow believer in high school (late 90s). I remember when at the advanced class together one of our friends got really sick and had to go to the hospital. She had tears in her eyes and I put my arm around her to try and console her. That was enough to earn a stern talking to the next day, we were there to hear the word, not be physical... wtf?? [if they only knew what we did when they were not looking!]
We went off to different colleges, grew a bit apart, and I was kind of a jerk. I regret how it ended. My next girlfriend was not in The Way and I was strongly encouraged to bring her to fellowship. After bringing her to one she pretty much told me "you are in a cult" and really helped bring all my doubts to the surface, and helped me to leave.
My "believer" girlfriend was there for me at a really hard point in my life though, we both had our doubts about The Way and talked about it a few times. I know she no longer attends either as she married outside of the organization.
Anyway, thought I would share those examples of dating in The Way and how they contributed to members leaving.
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waysider
Thanks, antiscenekid. I'm glad it worked out alright.
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OldSkool
TWI spends a lot of effort recruiting and then follows with just as much effort to make people leave. Genius, no?
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Eagle
When I first was introduced to TWI, I could date anyone, though at that time I knew no one woman personally in the Corps that wasn't already married. I had no trouble getting dates. When I got to the Advanced Class level in '86, I could still date whomever I wanted but began to suspect that single Corps women were not available, at least to me. I also began to see the teaching that TWI believers only marry TWI believers. When I went into the Corps, I was flat told only to date other Corps women in my apprentice year or in residence, but I couldn't marry while in the Corps program. I did see how this was not working out...for the women. As time progressed, it seemed there were many more women than men in the Corps program. The math wasn't adding up. It was fine for me to date any in the program, but found out later that it was discouraged for me to date a single woman Corps grad, making those women having men even less available. When I left the Corps program, I was chastised, marked and avoided, and I could date no one in TWI. So I dated ex-believers. To my discouragement, many of the ex-believer women required I belong to their off-shoot. I decided to just enter society again and married my current wife Debbie in February 2000. Granted, Debbie, who was looking for a home church, an myself decided to get with Christian Family Fellowship. They had no rules on who to marry so long as she was a Christian woman, per the Bible. John Shroyer and Jeff Rath married us. Later, my beliefs did not line completely up with the old Wierwille teachings and we parted ways amicably. We have joined a mainline Christian Church, and yes, occasionally cringe at teachings they give, but have decided that no one ministry has all the truth. We simply go by the foundational belief that Jesus is the Son of God, Lord and Savior, died for our sins, and was raised from the dead. Not too many from the old Way will fellowship with us anymore. We have moved on, and know all these differences will be ironed out by God in the end, and really hold no ill will. There is no point to that. We sure would like to fellowship with them again, the same as when I was first introduced into the Way, before it became so legalistic.
Eagle
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rascal
That happened to me as wow / app corpes. State leaders step in and let you know that there are only two choices...you either keep your commitment to god and destroy the parasitical cells or you turn our back on him and against the ministry who taught you the greatness of gods word. God or your unborn child....i chose,...you never really get over it :(
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waysider
I'm so sorry, Rascal. Sometimes this stuff just burns me up.
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outandabout
I'm sorry too, Rascal. It wasn't your fault.
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rascal
Thanks way sider n out n about....i guess it was kind of new and fresh because after nearly thirty years just last week i finally told some follks, my daughter one of them ,here about some of it....still couldnt admit it waas me...just shariing the scriptures used to force people into decisions they wouldn't normally make.
I am still married to the fellow I dated in twi. But I look back and it wasn't dating...not really. You attended twi functions together. You volunteered to work together at events. You analyzed logically whether the person was suitable for you to move the word with....ie how many classes adv. class corpses...wow years ...etc.what did your twig leader area color n state leader think. If you didn't have their blessing, it was a no go because one certainly didn't wish to be unequally yoked.
Personal feelings tended to be secondary, IMO. Not to mention there was rarely money to just go to dinner or a movie to simply enjoy one another's company lol.
I think many of us were surprised when we left twi and the facade fell away to find that out that you had nothing in common with your life partner.
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chockfull
For some reason I am reminded of a couple who had been living together for a year or so got into TWI and registered for a class requiring a hotel stay. The leader involved (ordained, WC, LC etc.) wouldn't let them stay in the same room together as they were not married and he was "taking a stand" against sexual impropriety. The couple naturally concluded that how these people act is different than what they say, and was never to be seen again.
Moral of the story?
The higher you go in TWI, the more likely you are to run into a leader with the IQ of a small soap dish, as those qualities are promoted, and this causes more attrition to TWI which counteracts any of their good acts. And the group shrinks.
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