I once submitted a study I had done on my sonship rights to headquarters Naturally, the staff send a draft thanking me for the work I had done, but said the work done by whoever was what they approved of.
The work came out of a couple of years of studying the many teachings, classes, and books of research that I had been researching. I couldn't just follow what werewolf (my name for weirwille) was teaching and his corp was preaching without researching it for myself.
I more that I studied the more sceptical I became of twi. I never bite into the work coming down from the corp. I was sceptical of anything that werewolf handed to his clones and tried to cram down my throat. Werewolf wasn't the only one with the knowledge. In fact, he never really had any of his own, he copied it from others and passed it off as his own.
That's why the twi denied to look at the work. It was written without the plagiarist nuances from werewolf speak. No doubt.
Artists, dancers, authors, cartoonists, psychiatrists, architects, medical professionals, orchestra personnel, etc. had graduated from the corps program
and were moving back into their spheres of influence. All the joyous excitement and enthusiasm was erupting from deep within their souls. The simplicity
in Christ, not the machinery, was the real motion of devotion.
Surely twi was bigger than "just running classes" and in-house programs, right?
Surely upper ranks could see this window of opportunity might close if not perceived, right?
Surely they understood that people and the machinery were totally different aspects, right?
Nope.
What I was witnessing in 1982....I refused to believe.
With shallow breaths, Twi was dying before my eyes.
Sky, sorry that "leadership" didn't really get what you were aiming for, otherwise TWI might have turned out differently and possibly gotten some respect from mainline denominational Christianity.
i really can't tell what was right or wrong when it comes to speaking in tongues and other things when god would show you something. i think some of it comes down to god being god regardless of the devilishness if you will
i know i can tell what was right or wrong when it came to sexual anything goes
Sky, sorry that "leadership" didn't really get what you were aiming for, otherwise TWI might have turned out differently and possibly gotten some respect from mainline denominational Christianity.
Thanks Thomas........yeah, in hindsight it is interesting to think "what might have been" IF twi had taken this admonition 31 years ago.
Nearly every aspect of the cloning corps program runs against the grain of the One Body, members in particular. And, if its just for training
purposes only.......then why does the heavy-handedness exist year after year for corps grads who attend the corps meeting phone hookups?
The cloning does NOTHING but spit out rigid followers.
Why does no one ask "Where are the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers in twi?" Sure, Rosalie is the designated Chairwoman of the Board,
but how scripturally sound is THAT? Seriously. Have sound thinking ceased to exist in the belly of the cult?
The subtle irony of all this is.......the vaulted claim of "Christ in you" [pfal] has mostly disappeared from their Sunday teachings. That too jolts the
brain cells from twi's cult message of "WE have the word." With twi, it takes a cult village to contain a follower.
Why does no one ask "Where are the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers in twi?
I don't think there are any left at Box 328 in a certain town in OH, but if you read some of these posts, you can pick out a few of those gifts here at the cafe. The spirit energizes what it will where it can. I don't think there is anything holy out there.
We know that some day we'll all be judged, and I'm not going to get away squeaky clean...neither are you! However, some who are/were in authority positions will have so much more to answer for especially for the harm they may have caused to some of the brethren.
I don't understand how some folks are able to operate. In my locality, there exists almost an entire branch of "oldies" who have aligned themselves with one of the offshoots.
The "acting" branch coord. absolutely knows about the totality of the corruption in VP's and loy's time. Yet they preach the same old same old. How can one walk on 2 sides of the fence at the same time???
I don't understand how some folks are able to operate. In my locality, there exists almost an entire branch of "oldies" who have aligned themselves with one of the offshoots.
The "acting" branch coord. absolutely knows about the totality of the corruption in VP's and loy's time. Yet they preach the same old same old. How can one walk on 2 sides of the fence at the same time???
There has to be some element of being "the cheese" present or like in many offshoot cases the founders having too much time on their resume on TWI payroll for anyone else to hire them. So they have nothing else they can do. It's like LCM's demise. Despite all the bravado and bragging about "being able to manage a Fortune 500 company" from ministry experience, where he ended up working is in a part-time seasonal job slinging boxes at UPS. And after that some low profile menial job like the rest of the masses. These guys ego can't take that. And girls too.
And people are creatures of habit. Splinter leaders take advantage of this, highlight the sins of TWI, yet then take the people and put themselves in charge as the big cheese and do virtually the exact same things as they did in TWI. Yet now, somehow, because they are in charge, it is now "more loving" or "real" or "a genuine household". And the money flows in to them, instead of TWI. I see a handful of these types of groups around and the only distinguishing characteristic besides a continuation of Stepford wives behavior is what year they left TWI in, which tends to be the foundation around where they felt TWI stopped being "called of God" and turning bad somehow. As opposed to being wrong from the start, and admitting the possibility of being duped, and needing to take accountability for it and move in a direction walking away from the cult doctrine.
One of the BS detectors I use is to confront some of those guys with scripture. Or challenge them and see how they react. I have yet to see someone be humble and admit their faults and change. Many times I do this just to see what level of democracy is present, or how opposing ideas are tolerated. Basically every time I've seen it boil down to "well God called me to be in charge here, thus that is the reason and backup for my opinion being right". And it always leads to if you don't like it leave.
The reality is there is no real foundation spiritually except for that built on Jesus Christ the cornerstone of the building. But you have all these people building little outhouses all over the place none of which even have the remotest resemblance to being built upon Jesus Christ as the foundation. They are built on a new cult of personality and tradition that is comfortable. That's why splinter groups really don't have an influx of new members like even a local community church will.
TWI was and is a ministry founded on plagiarism and adultery as the two predominant practices. And a political climate complete with paranoia and slaughter of character that would almost rival a Hitler/Stalin regime. And some other ones, like a superiority complex born of what probably was mostly manufactured speaking in tongues. Always the elitist attitude. Never collaborative with mainstream Christianity. So always looking down on and denigrating brothers and sisters in Christ.
I would rather sit in my house, community, work with true friends and never lead anything again than continue to propagate and support that kind of leavened Pharisee doctrine that damages so many people's lives. Or to lie to myself and say if it's me in charge it will all be better.
But then again I have just a touch of self-respect left.
Mr. Garden once did a teaching on speaking in tongues that his branch coordinator thought was the best she'd ever heard and should be taught to the WC. The limb coordinator, later coordinator of the FWC, told her, "To TEACH the WC, you have BE WC."
It's like LCM's demise. Despite all the bravado and bragging about "being able to manage a Fortune 500 company" from ministry experience, where he ended up working is in a part-time seasonal job slinging boxes at UPS. And after that some low profile menial job like the rest of the masses. These guys ego can't take that. And girls too.
And people are creatures of habit. Splinter leaders take advantage of this, highlight the sins of TWI, yet then take the people and put themselves in charge as the big cheese and do virtually the exact same things as they did in TWI. Yet now, somehow, because they are in charge, it is now "more loving" or "real" or "a genuine household". And the money flows in to them, instead of TWI. I see a handful of these types of groups around and the only distinguishing characteristic besides a continuation of Stepford wives behavior is what year they left TWI in, which tends to be the foundation around where they felt TWI stopped being "called of God" and turning bad somehow. As opposed to being wrong from the start, and admitting the possibility of being duped, and needing to take accountability for it and move in a direction walking away from the cult doctrine.
One of the BS detectors I use is to confront some of those guys with scripture. Or challenge them and see how they react. I have yet to see someone be humble and admit their faults and change. Many times I do this just to see what level of democracy is present, or how opposing ideas are tolerated. Basically every time I've seen it boil down to "well God called me to be in charge here, thus that is the reason and backup for my opinion being right". And it always leads to if you don't like it leave.
The reality is there is no real foundation spiritually except for that built on Jesus Christ the cornerstone of the building. But you have all these people building little outhouses all over the place none of which even have the remotest resemblance to being built upon Jesus Christ as the foundation. They are built on a new cult of personality and tradition that is comfortable. That's why splinter groups really don't have an influx of new members like even a local community church will.
TWI was and is a ministry founded on plagiarism and adultery as the two predominant practices. And a political climate complete with paranoia and slaughter of character that would almost rival a Hitler/Stalin regime. And some other ones, like a superiority complex born of what probably was mostly manufactured speaking in tongues. Always the elitist attitude. Never collaborative with mainstream Christianity. So always looking down on and denigrating brothers and sisters in Christ.
I would rather sit in my house, community, work with true friends and never lead anything again than continue to propagate and support that kind of leavened Pharisee doctrine that damages so many people's lives. Or to lie to myself and say if it's me in charge it will all be better.
But then again I have just a touch of self-respect left.
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Human without the bean
I once submitted a study I had done on my sonship rights to headquarters Naturally, the staff send a draft thanking me for the work I had done, but said the work done by whoever was what they approved of.
The work came out of a couple of years of studying the many teachings, classes, and books of research that I had been researching. I couldn't just follow what werewolf (my name for weirwille) was teaching and his corp was preaching without researching it for myself.
I more that I studied the more sceptical I became of twi. I never bite into the work coming down from the corp. I was sceptical of anything that werewolf handed to his clones and tried to cram down my throat. Werewolf wasn't the only one with the knowledge. In fact, he never really had any of his own, he copied it from others and passed it off as his own.
That's why the twi denied to look at the work. It was written without the plagiarist nuances from werewolf speak. No doubt.
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excathedra
that was really nice, sky. i wish i had known that vince who i would like to slap the sheet out of lol
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skyrider
Yeah.....BUT it didn't stop the machinery and wierwille-doctrine.
Spiritual Blindness had pervaded the upper-tier of twi's leadership ranks as they marched in lockstep to the wierwille ideology.
Some of us SAW THE RED FLAGS in the late-70s and early-80s....and BEFORE the martindale presidency, but towns3nd, cumm!ns, geer,
rivenbark, and others were aggressively stoking the fires to keep the machine humming along.
And, then.....even though an exodus ensues in 1987, dozens of offshoot leaders arise TO BUILD THEIR OWN WIERWILLE-WANNABE WHIRLAJIG.
Will the insanity cease? Will the merry-go-round stop? Will another generation fall prey to new lions lying in wait to deceive?
Sometimes, I think that "speaking in tongues" and twi's skewing of God's true manifestations is a bewitching mechanism in and of itself.
See, if one can babble in an unknown language.....then, twi has "got to be right." Right?
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skyrider
The so-called "Word in Culture" was not to be.
Artists, dancers, authors, cartoonists, psychiatrists, architects, medical professionals, orchestra personnel, etc. had graduated from the corps program
and were moving back into their spheres of influence. All the joyous excitement and enthusiasm was erupting from deep within their souls. The simplicity
in Christ, not the machinery, was the real motion of devotion.
Surely twi was bigger than "just running classes" and in-house programs, right?
Surely upper ranks could see this window of opportunity might close if not perceived, right?
Surely they understood that people and the machinery were totally different aspects, right?
Nope.
What I was witnessing in 1982....I refused to believe.
With shallow breaths, Twi was dying before my eyes.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Sky, sorry that "leadership" didn't really get what you were aiming for, otherwise TWI might have turned out differently and possibly gotten some respect from mainline denominational Christianity.
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excathedra
i really can't tell what was right or wrong when it comes to speaking in tongues and other things when god would show you something. i think some of it comes down to god being god regardless of the devilishness if you will
i know i can tell what was right or wrong when it came to sexual anything goes
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skyrider
Thanks Thomas........yeah, in hindsight it is interesting to think "what might have been" IF twi had taken this admonition 31 years ago.
Nearly every aspect of the cloning corps program runs against the grain of the One Body, members in particular. And, if its just for training
purposes only.......then why does the heavy-handedness exist year after year for corps grads who attend the corps meeting phone hookups?
The cloning does NOTHING but spit out rigid followers.
Why does no one ask "Where are the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers in twi?" Sure, Rosalie is the designated Chairwoman of the Board,
but how scripturally sound is THAT? Seriously. Have sound thinking ceased to exist in the belly of the cult?
The subtle irony of all this is.......the vaulted claim of "Christ in you" [pfal] has mostly disappeared from their Sunday teachings. That too jolts the
brain cells from twi's cult message of "WE have the word." With twi, it takes a cult village to contain a follower.
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krys
I don't think there are any left at Box 328 in a certain town in OH, but if you read some of these posts, you can pick out a few of those gifts here at the cafe. The spirit energizes what it will where it can. I don't think there is anything holy out there.
We know that some day we'll all be judged, and I'm not going to get away squeaky clean...neither are you! However, some who are/were in authority positions will have so much more to answer for especially for the harm they may have caused to some of the brethren.
I don't understand how some folks are able to operate. In my locality, there exists almost an entire branch of "oldies" who have aligned themselves with one of the offshoots.
The "acting" branch coord. absolutely knows about the totality of the corruption in VP's and loy's time. Yet they preach the same old same old. How can one walk on 2 sides of the fence at the same time???
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skyrider
IF.......twi is the "true household of God" (cough, cough)...
And......God gave some apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to "the Church".....
Then.....two deductions follow: 1) twi would be the prime recipient of these gift ministries to the glory of God
or 2) twi is a false ministry and God is NOT bestowing His gift ministries to their man-made traditions.
It is our responsibility to discern the health of the tree by the quality of its fruit.
That's how we "judge" and discern the scriptural truth around us.
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waysider
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chockfull
There has to be some element of being "the cheese" present or like in many offshoot cases the founders having too much time on their resume on TWI payroll for anyone else to hire them. So they have nothing else they can do. It's like LCM's demise. Despite all the bravado and bragging about "being able to manage a Fortune 500 company" from ministry experience, where he ended up working is in a part-time seasonal job slinging boxes at UPS. And after that some low profile menial job like the rest of the masses. These guys ego can't take that. And girls too.
And people are creatures of habit. Splinter leaders take advantage of this, highlight the sins of TWI, yet then take the people and put themselves in charge as the big cheese and do virtually the exact same things as they did in TWI. Yet now, somehow, because they are in charge, it is now "more loving" or "real" or "a genuine household". And the money flows in to them, instead of TWI. I see a handful of these types of groups around and the only distinguishing characteristic besides a continuation of Stepford wives behavior is what year they left TWI in, which tends to be the foundation around where they felt TWI stopped being "called of God" and turning bad somehow. As opposed to being wrong from the start, and admitting the possibility of being duped, and needing to take accountability for it and move in a direction walking away from the cult doctrine.
One of the BS detectors I use is to confront some of those guys with scripture. Or challenge them and see how they react. I have yet to see someone be humble and admit their faults and change. Many times I do this just to see what level of democracy is present, or how opposing ideas are tolerated. Basically every time I've seen it boil down to "well God called me to be in charge here, thus that is the reason and backup for my opinion being right". And it always leads to if you don't like it leave.
The reality is there is no real foundation spiritually except for that built on Jesus Christ the cornerstone of the building. But you have all these people building little outhouses all over the place none of which even have the remotest resemblance to being built upon Jesus Christ as the foundation. They are built on a new cult of personality and tradition that is comfortable. That's why splinter groups really don't have an influx of new members like even a local community church will.
TWI was and is a ministry founded on plagiarism and adultery as the two predominant practices. And a political climate complete with paranoia and slaughter of character that would almost rival a Hitler/Stalin regime. And some other ones, like a superiority complex born of what probably was mostly manufactured speaking in tongues. Always the elitist attitude. Never collaborative with mainstream Christianity. So always looking down on and denigrating brothers and sisters in Christ.
I would rather sit in my house, community, work with true friends and never lead anything again than continue to propagate and support that kind of leavened Pharisee doctrine that damages so many people's lives. Or to lie to myself and say if it's me in charge it will all be better.
But then again I have just a touch of self-respect left.
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Watered Garden
Mr. Garden once did a teaching on speaking in tongues that his branch coordinator thought was the best she'd ever heard and should be taught to the WC. The limb coordinator, later coordinator of the FWC, told her, "To TEACH the WC, you have BE WC."
That was that.
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Twinky
And the teachers of the early WCs??
When did that stupid rule come in?
But of course, Mr Garden, being a mere hick from Galilee, had nothing to teach the Pharisees. :evildenk:/>
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skyrider
THIS.
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