Tired of the lecturing...

[skyrider]

As twi classes and programs dwindle to a halt.....I cannot help but wonder if advanced class grads and corps are TIRED OF THE LECTURING.

It's one thing, with initial involvement, to be optimistic about the group's 'mission statement' and help in that cause.......but, with each passing year of involvement, one sees the hypocrisy and favoritism and double-standards. Then, more and more, when weighed in the balance of scriptures the perception of this great divide widens. Twi is NOT the ministry (cough, cough) that it purports to be. The "teachings" are simply a subtle form of LECTURING and indoctrinating.

If their deeds don't follow their words.......its hypocrisy.

If prevailing deeds don't follow prevailing words......its hypocrisy.

If "its good for thee, but not for me".....its two-faced hypocrisy.

Are the adults tired of the charades yet? I think so. More and more evidence seems to suggest that local fellowships are STAYING local.

Maybe, they can no longer afford to travel to hq's sunday teaching services with the economy crawling along? That may be a part of it.

But....when coupled with 1)boring and 2)lecture.....I tend to think that staying away from hq is what many are doing.

Sure, they may not be voicing in clear terms their dissent and displeasure......BUT THEIR ACTIONS ARE UNMISTAKABLE.

Didn't vpw used to quote that poem......"I'd rather SEE a sermon, than HEAR one any day."

....."I'd rather one would WALK with me, than merely POINT the way."

[Galen]

As twi classes and programs dwindle to a halt.....I cannot help but wonder if advanced class grads and corps are TIRED OF THE LECTURING. ...

Classes have been ran in my area. More classes are being planned.

[skyrider]

Classes have been ran in my area. More classes are being planned.

Does anyone stick around after the class is over?

[skyrider]

The foundational class, run by good-hearted folk, far from hq is one thing......

The corps program, an indoctrination process to vpw and twi-servitude, is quite another.....

So, what's the inrez corps numbers? Are these numbers still in single digits?

[Galen]

Does anyone stick around after the class is over?

Of what I see, about half.

The foundational class, run by good-hearted folk, far from hq is one thing......

The corps program, an indoctrination process to vpw and twi-servitude, is quite another.....

So, what's the inrez corps numbers? Are these numbers still in single digits?

I do not know.

In the 70s, I did not care what the corpse did.

I don't care what the corpse does today.

I doubt I will care in the future.

:)

[skyrider]

Of what I see, about half.

I do not know.

In the 70s, I did not care what the corpse did.

I don't care what the corpse does today.

I doubt I will care in the future.

:)/>

Galen.....thanks for your candid response.

I know of many who view this as you do.

For me, I just don't see how people can compartmentalize "good in pfal"

and "evil exploitation in twi's corps program."

Wierwille 'authored' both.....

[waysider]

I tend to see Corps participation as a sort of barometer for The Way's health. Right now, the weather forecast looks rather dismal. Boo Hoo... I'm so sad.

[Galen]

Galen.....thanks for your candid response.

I know of many who view this as you do.

For me, I just don't see how people can compartmentalize "good in pfal"

and "evil exploitation in twi's corps program."

Wierwille 'authored' both.....

In my very limited exposure, I would have to say that Way Ministry Followers come in two primary flavors, or groups.

A- people who have been loving, helpful and who seemed to be very authentic in ministering for God. The group A people have been wonderful. I have enjoyed knowing them and all of my dealing with them.

B- people who have not been loving; nor helpful; and who I suspect were motivated out of pride or power trips. Group B people, well, there have only been a few instances where being around them was pleasant. We have always had to keep our 'guard up' around them. There have been many cases, in my life, where people from this group have been very hateful, and have tried to take advantage of me and others in the fellowship.

In my experience, these two groups [A and B] have basically encompassed the vast majority of Way Ministry followers.

I have voiced this opinion many times on this forum previously.

This has been my observation, since I first began attending Way fellowships. Fellowships are comprised of these two groups.

I have generally learned to spot them quickly. Fortunately group B people will tell, you right up front that they are in this group.

People you suspect of being in group A, nearly always prove themselves to be from group A [loving, kind, helpful and authentic].

Likewise people who tell you they are in group B eventually prove themselves have the characteristics of group B.

We hang out mostly with group A people.

I am sure that you know who the group B people are.

[skyrider]

In my very limited exposure, I would have to say that Way Ministry Followers come in two primary flavors, or groups.

A- people who have been loving, helpful and who seemed to be very authentic in ministering for God. The group A people have been wonderful. I have enjoyed knowing them and all of my dealing with them.

B- people who have not been loving; nor helpful; and who I suspect were motivated out of pride or power trips. Group B people, well, there have only been a few instances where being around them was pleasant. We have always had to keep our 'guard up' around them. There have been many cases, in my life, where people from this group have been very hateful, and have tried to take advantage of me and others in the fellowship.

In my experience, these two groups [A and B] have basically encompassed the vast majority of Way Ministry followers.

I have voiced this opinion many times on this forum previously.

This has been my observation, since I first began attending Way fellowships. Fellowships are comprised of these two groups.

I have generally learned to spot them quickly. Fortunately group B people will tell, you right up front that they are in this group.

People you suspect of being in group A, nearly always prove themselves to be from group A [loving, kind, helpful and authentic].

Likewise people who tell you they are in group B eventually prove themselves have the characteristics of group B.

We hang out mostly with group A people.

I am sure that you know who the group B people are.

In a broad-stroke simplification of two groups [A and B].......I have posted many times that twi had many good-hearted, loving, good Samaritan-types

of people. And further, I found these people on the field, the WOW program, and EVEN SOME in the corps and on staff.

But, you're right Galen. I do know WHO belongs in group B......wierwille, geer, martindale, rivenbark, towns-nd, lynn, cumm!ns, etc.

The haughty and prideful are easy to spot.

[Galen]

I have never met: VP Wierwille, geer, rivenbark, townsend, lynn, or cumm!ns.

I assume that most of them would fit into Group B.

I did meet Martindale once, he was clearly a jerk during the 2 minutes that I was in his presence.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Galen

[Allan]

I have never met: VP Wierwille, geer, rivenbark, townsend, lynn, or cumm!ns.

I assume that most of them would fit into Group B.

I did meet Martindale once, he was clearly a jerk during the 2 minutes that I was in his presence.

So a question here...Is it possible for, say, yourself Galen, to think of someone or others who are in the category Á' classification ( in your mind ) to be absolutely known to be 'B'grade as*hol#$ in someone elses ?

Edited April 21, 2013 by Allan

[waysider]

So a question here...Is it possible for, say, yourself Galen, to think of someone or others who are in the category Á' classification ( in your mind ) to be absolutely known to be 'B'grade as*hol#$ in someone elses ?

Absolutely. Opinions can and do vary all across the board. I think, though, that behavior trumps opinion on these matters. You may be of the opinion that someone is a class A yet their behavior reveals them to be a class B. I'm just sayin'.

[Allan]

totally agree waysider ...friends to some...despisers to others !!

[WordWolf]

(snip)

In the 70s, I did not care what the corpse did.

I don't care what the corpse does today.

I doubt I will care in the future.

:)/>

I think it's worth mentioning that you were a "special case" in twi for 2 reasons.

1) vpw tended to leave the military alone and not ride them.

(I think it went alone with him sucking up to the rich- he saw both as having

a certain "cachet" and he wanted them happy. So, he saw most people as tools and

assets to employ, and he saw the rich and the military as more prestigious tools and

assets to employ.

2) As a result of you being in the Navy and deploying to different locations,

the corps often found it a lot of work to keep track of you and often refused to

bother. That's why you had to nag them to get materials to run classes and so on

when in their areas- they foisted you off on other people. In responsible Christian

organizations, several people would have checked in to make sure you were ok.

In twi, the passive-aggressive thing is in effect, so everybody said you were someone

else's problem. Sorta makes you feel like Pontius Pilate's reviewing your requests,

I suppose.

So,

the corps were lighter on you than on others.

When they could find you.

And they saw you as more trouble than you were worth.

In short, a freaking good plan to minimize harassment from twi's hierarchy if one

insists on dealing with it. I wish you'd done it intentionally, but the results

were the same.

[Galen]

Absolutely. Opinions can and do vary all across the board. I think, though, that behavior trumps opinion on these matters. You may be of the opinion that someone is a class A yet their behavior reveals them to be a class B. I'm just sayin'.

Not really.

A ring-knocker is a ring-knocker.

[Allan]

A case in point Galen...I believe you have 'friends' that you probs think are 'nice''great' cat. A people, yet ask twinky or myself what we think of them THROUGH THEIR ACTIONS (past and present )and we would tell a differn't story.I mean, we lived with these people, I'm related to some of these people, so really I guess I'm saying, you don't genosko them...no offence ! I guess maybe if hundreds of people came to the same conclusion about someone it would be more objective ? but then thousands thought Hitler was the bees knees...so maybe it's best to not categorize people at all ??!! interesting topic though....

[waysider]

Let's try it this way....You can't judge a book by lookin' at the cover.

[skyrider]

I think it's worth mentioning that you were a "special case" in twi for 2 reasons.

1) vpw tended to leave the military alone and not ride them.

(I think it went alone with him sucking up to the rich- he saw both as having

a certain "cachet" and he wanted them happy. So, he saw most people as tools and

assets to employ, and he saw the rich and the military as more prestigious tools and

assets to employ.

2) As a result of you being in the Navy and deploying to different locations,

the corps often found it a lot of work to keep track of you and often refused to

bother. That's why you had to nag them to get materials to run classes and so on

....

Yes....the military fit into a special category.

Through the years, I had WOW and Corps assignments near Air Force bases and helped with some

of these guys to take pfal and other classes. It was ALWAYS very challenging to work around

their schedules. The military had their own chain-of-command to report to....and, as it should

be, twi leadership took a back seat.

So, yeah.....Galen has a unique perspective of twi. He seems to loathe twi leadership, but loves

the vehicle (stolen class) that gave him a ride. Quite a dichotomy!

[Allan]

Yes....the military fit into a special category.

Through the years, I had WOW and Corps assignments near Air Force bases and helped with some

of these guys to take pfal and other classes. It was ALWAYS very challenging to work around

their schedules. The military had their own chain-of-command to report to....and, as it should

be, twi leadership took a back seat.

So, yeah.....Galen has a unique perspective of twi. He seems to loathe twi leadership, but loves

the vehicle (stolen class) that gave him a ride. Quite a dichotomy!

Actually, the twi of today reminds me a bit of Al Queida. No real leader in charge, so one has a smattering of rag tag bunches of cells run by former or aspiring leadership with no real direction. A trickle of good intentioned new people that must at some point commit to the 'greater cause' and totally submit to their superiors. All the good people that have listened to Gods'call have gone, seen the light, overcome fear and vamoosed ! Yet you still have some people who have not been able to do the God 'thing' without the confines of twi, so return and pick up where they left off and do their best to convince themselves that it's not all that bad. A bit like we were told by 'leadership' when we left, "you and your spouse are going to have to wake up every morning and lie to yourselves and your kids" ...what a joke

[OldSkool]

A bit like we were told by 'leadership' when we left, "you and your spouse are going to have to wake up every morning and lie to yourselves and your kids" ...what a joke

What a horrible thing to say to someone. But at least you don't have to wake up and lie to yourselves about the way international.

[Allan]

What a horrible thing to say to someone. But at least you don't have to wake up and lie to yourselves about the way international. :nono5:/>

Oh that was some of the 'nicer' things lol. Me and twinky have got some stories ;) But when you've got an oirishman who fancied himself as the next mogfodat you're gonna have issues hahahaha

[johniam]

quote:

In a broad-stroke simplification of two groups [A and B].......I have posted many times that twi had many good-hearted, loving, good Samaritan-types

of people. And further, I found these people on the field, the WOW program, and EVEN SOME in the corps and on staff.

But, you're right Galen. I do know WHO belongs in group B......wierwille, geer, martindale, rivenbark, towns-nd, lynn, cumm!ns, etc.

The haughty and prideful are easy to spot.

Anything is easy to spot if you're on a witch hunt!

I've seen and been around Walter Cummins a few times in the last 2 years. He is not haughty nor prideful.

You're the last person who should accuse OTHER people of "broad-stroke simplification".

[skyrider]

Anything is easy to spot if you're on a witch hunt!

I've seen and been around Walter Cummins a few times in the last 2 years. He is not haughty nor prideful.

You're the last person who should accuse OTHER people of "broad-stroke simplification".

Well.....perhaps, there's a better word for someone [i.e. cumm!ns] who was in such lockstep loyalty to wierwille

that he would NOT consider Schoenhe!t's research on adultery [or other research that contradicted vp's "interpretation

of the verd." Adultery and/or sexual predation was wierwille's "secret doctrine" that caused a wave of destruction

throughout twi and mandated to the next mog [martyfail].....and Walter was blind to this????? Or, was he covering for

the legacy of a dead wierwille???

Too prideful to consider that wierwille might be "off the word."??

Or, prideful that vpw had taught him and he would stand for the wierwille doctrine?

All those years cumm!ns taught us *corps night*......and he couldn't even discern THE SIN OF ADULTERY IN TWI

even when a research paper is handed to him, and men like Ralph & JAL are dealing with a boatload of women who've

fallen prey to these mogs.

Is walter still pushing twi's doctrine, John?

Yeah, that's what I thought....and that's why

you jumped in to defend him.

<_<

[WordWolf]

I don't think that's haughty or prideful.

I think it's intellectually cowardly.

Now, most of the other people on the list were haughty and prideful.

(Those still living still are, too.)

[johniam]

Like I said, anything is "easy to spot" if you're on a witch hunt.