LCM was dead against the 12 Steps and thought it was a cop-out. Devilish. And I carried that view, that the 12 steps was no good, for a long time.
One of the churches that I attend did a series on the 12 steps, from a spiritual perspective - release from our addiction to sin (sin in general, or some sin specifically; let the congregation take its pick ). At first I was against it. I posted something elsewhere in this forum and the responses I got made me change my mind. I think maybe the 12 steps can be very helpful, taken with the right attitude of self-reflection and a desire to beat the addiction - with the help of one's God.
And I'm quite certain that God is willing to work with anyone who truly desires release, whether with the assistance of 12 steps or in any other way.
Here's the link: Twelve Steps - ATW. I see you posted on it and note your post #63.
I know people who have been delivered in a church by praying. I know people who have gone to christian groups (small) and have been delivered. I, myself, did not have that experience. I went into recovery about 18 years and I am still there. (12 steps) 12 steps are biblical principles that one applies. God changed my life through it.
I do know there's a group called Celebrate Recovery which is christian but it also has the 12 steps.
If 12 steps do not appeal, then just trust God to lead you to the place He wants you to be.
If you want to hear more from me, don't hesitate. I'll pray for your answer.
Let the person who needs help check these guys out:
Passages Malibu
AA makes people constantly say, "I am a recovering alcoholic or drug addict." And every week they would sound as though they were in the perpetual state of hopelessness and always on the verge of failure. Passages Malibu looks for the ROOT cause and believes in a cure so one does not struggle their whole life. They believe you can be healed.
I also believe in complete healing and like the way they set things up. Although I have not been there, I have been to Alanon which did me no good and to Celebrate Recovery which was good only because I met real faith-filled people among the 12 step doers. I found that I cannot fix other people and had to work on me if I ever wanted to be free of the damages alcoholics/addicts have inflicted on me. I always tried to fix them. They have to fix themselves and me ~ myself. And that was the biggest thing I learned there. In TWI we were taught God first, others second and myself third and that is not true. You have to put your oxygen mask on first before you can help anyone. And helping someone and feeling responsible to FIX someone are two different things.
"World-Class Drug & Alcohol Addiction Treatment Center
Perched over the Pacific Ocean, our five magnificent estates elegantly stretch across ten acres of Malibu coastline, offering you the perfect setting to heal your body, mind, and spirit. For over ten years, Passages Malibu has stood out as a shining example of non-12-Step, luxury addiction treatment.
Inside the magnificent grounds at Passages, you’ll find the most comprehensive and sophisticated treatment programs in the world. When founders Chris and Pax Prentiss created this program in 2001, they began with one goal in mind - to create the world’s finest team of treatment professionals. Comprised of doctors, nurses, psychologists, family therapists, trainers, acupuncturists, and many others, ensuring your complete satisfaction from the day you check in until the day you graduate from our world-class drug rehab center."
Another book that won't cost a down payment on a house like Passages Malibu does is one by Dr. Gabor Mate' in it he discusses the root causes of addiction.
Much of the addiction is heredity. If you look carefully, those who are seriously addicted have others in the family who were also. Not necessarily the same substance, but it's there.
I've known a few people who have conquered an addiction without a 12 step program and were successful.
Anyone who has successfully quit smoking has done exactly that - - - wrestled an addiction into the ground without any 12 step program. Once I finally decided I was determines to quit....it took me 7 or 8 serious attempts and about 5 years before I was successful enough to string 30 nonsmoking days together. Once I got that far...the rest was reasonably easy.
edited to add:
If you look in your phone book you may find a few addiction specialist physicians. If you contact them, you may find a good place to start. Frequently physicians can and do make coming off the substance more comfortable and I am sure they will have a list of counselling centers listed for their patient's use. I'm sure if you contact one of them, you'll find what you're looking for.
I've never had a physical addiction to anything, but I have been diagnosed with the milder form of bipolar mood disorder, and I facilitate a consumer support group for National Alliance on Mental Illness that meets twice a month. I have a nephew who attends Celebrate Recovery from time-to-time and he was surprised one time when I went with him, and told the group that my hang-up was pride and that I struggle with the temptation to manipulate people. I said I had been clean since 1986 (the year I last deliberately manipulated anybody, while I was on Lightbearers).
Fellowshipping with other people who have been diagnosed with mental illnesses has led me to an awareness of what's called "dual diagnosis", where a person has an underlying mental illness, but has become addicted to one thing or another in an attempt at self-medication. I know I don't have the expertise to deal with physical addiction, but I also know that a person who has a dual diagnosis has to deal with both problems at the same time. If a person tries to deal with them one at a time, the problems will just lead back into each other.
A person who was involved with TWI may not have gone into it with a mental illness, but could very well have come out of the group with post traumatic stress disorder. I know my wife did.
all i can tell you is what my dad did. my dad started drinking heavy around 1968. by around 1970(iirc) he would come in from work and start downing 2-6packs of tall bud. after the tall bud he would drink a 5th of vodka. he did this every day until 1992 when my mom told him she was going to divorce him if he didnt stop drinking. he quit right then and hasnt drank again. yes he just up and quit. this is all the help i can offer. i have heard of other people just up and quiting.
all i can tell you is what my dad did. my dad started drinking heavy around 1968. by around 1970(iirc) he would come in from work and start downing 2-6packs of tall bud. after the tall bud he would drink a 5th of vodka. he did this every day until 1992 when my mom told him she was going to divorce him if he didnt stop drinking. he quit right then and hasnt drank again. yes he just up and quit. this is all the help i can offer. i have heard of other people just up and quiting.
In cases involving extreme addiction, there can be severe medical consequences from attempting this. I don't recommend it.
Recommended Posts
WordWolf
No.
I can only add what little I DO know.
Physical addictions have 3 parts, the physical part, the psychological part, and the social part.
(Other kinds skip the physical part.)
To overcome a physical addiction (usually to a chemical) is harder because the body is
accustomed to the substance and will protest its sudden absence. A professional should
be consulted on that one.
The psychological part is the person's mental dependency- on the behavior and the "reward"
of their brain's release of happy chemicals when they indulge their addiction.
(For example, a sex addict is addicted as much to the release of endorphins as anything
else.) They need to change their thinking. If a person reacted to stress by engaging
in a vice or addiction or addictive behavior, they need to rethink and find healthier
ways to react.
The social aspect means they need to restructure their lives to remove any and all
behavior that LED to and FED the addiction. I knew a guy that kicked an alcohol addiction-
then later started drinking again. What was he doing in his spare time when he was
"dry"? He hung out in the same bars he used to drink in. Surprise, surprise, he resumed
drinking eventually. You yourself, I believe, once said that someone who wants to
give up gambling doesn't switch from poker to slots- they leave the casino entirely.
Whatever solutions are used, if successful, will address at least the psychological
and social aspects in one form or another.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
I humbly ask you why not the 12 step program?
Yes, there are 12 step fan-boys in the program that reminded me of twi.
But there were some that were not.
I was in it for 30 days, and about 50 meetings.
But it took a few years to beat it in my mind and body.
Years before I didn't think about wanting a drink.
A long time till the intense uneasiness in me subsided.
The 12 steps are there to help you see the problem,
and to talk and hang out with others with the same problem.
The rest is you, and reclaiming yourself.
And whatever you may find beating an addiction.
I'm not promoting it, just asking cause you brought it up.
I'm always on your side, whatever you do.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
LCM was dead against the 12 Steps and thought it was a cop-out. Devilish. And I carried that view, that the 12 steps was no good, for a long time.
One of the churches that I attend did a series on the 12 steps, from a spiritual perspective - release from our addiction to sin (sin in general, or some sin specifically; let the congregation take its pick ). At first I was against it. I posted something elsewhere in this forum and the responses I got made me change my mind. I think maybe the 12 steps can be very helpful, taken with the right attitude of self-reflection and a desire to beat the addiction - with the help of one's God.
And I'm quite certain that God is willing to work with anyone who truly desires release, whether with the assistance of 12 steps or in any other way.
Here's the link: Twelve Steps - ATW. I see you posted on it and note your post #63.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
newlife
Hi All,
I know people who have been delivered in a church by praying. I know people who have gone to christian groups (small) and have been delivered. I, myself, did not have that experience. I went into recovery about 18 years and I am still there. (12 steps) 12 steps are biblical principles that one applies. God changed my life through it.
I do know there's a group called Celebrate Recovery which is christian but it also has the 12 steps.
If 12 steps do not appeal, then just trust God to lead you to the place He wants you to be.
If you want to hear more from me, don't hesitate. I'll pray for your answer.
Newlife
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
well, not so much God as we were taught, or some 'biblical principle'
more a greater power than you.....in you
that greater power is helped being with others who beat it
dumping it all on some god don't work
didn't for me anyway
being ready to not know what's next will happen
being unsure, even lost, 'till things open up
1 day at a time, 1 minute, 1 moment
to decide, "I'm not going to take a drink"
one will get tired of those moments
but if you keep it up
eventually
you won't be counting them any more
Edited by cmanLink to comment
Share on other sites
cman
more like a human principal
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seth R.
Rational Recovery, no meetings, no sponsors, no stupid steps, just a cheap book you can find a copy on Amazon or buy from their website.
https://rational.org/ You don't need to buy the book to get started just click "Crash Course On AVRT" that will give you the basics.
Any questions Email me
Have fun and be safe.
Seth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Let the person who needs help check these guys out:
Passages Malibu
AA makes people constantly say, "I am a recovering alcoholic or drug addict." And every week they would sound as though they were in the perpetual state of hopelessness and always on the verge of failure. Passages Malibu looks for the ROOT cause and believes in a cure so one does not struggle their whole life. They believe you can be healed.
I also believe in complete healing and like the way they set things up. Although I have not been there, I have been to Alanon which did me no good and to Celebrate Recovery which was good only because I met real faith-filled people among the 12 step doers. I found that I cannot fix other people and had to work on me if I ever wanted to be free of the damages alcoholics/addicts have inflicted on me. I always tried to fix them. They have to fix themselves and me ~ myself. And that was the biggest thing I learned there. In TWI we were taught God first, others second and myself third and that is not true. You have to put your oxygen mask on first before you can help anyone. And helping someone and feeling responsible to FIX someone are two different things.
I saw God work for those that pursued him.
http://www.passagesmalibu.com/home.html?kmas=3&kmca=MedIMP+-+OL5OCPAGEC4&kmag=p455y34l1qf2&kmmt=p&kmkw=passages+malibu
"World-Class Drug & Alcohol Addiction Treatment Center
Perched over the Pacific Ocean, our five magnificent estates elegantly stretch across ten acres of Malibu coastline, offering you the perfect setting to heal your body, mind, and spirit. For over ten years, Passages Malibu has stood out as a shining example of non-12-Step, luxury addiction treatment.
Inside the magnificent grounds at Passages, you’ll find the most comprehensive and sophisticated treatment programs in the world. When founders Chris and Pax Prentiss created this program in 2001, they began with one goal in mind - to create the world’s finest team of treatment professionals. Comprised of doctors, nurses, psychologists, family therapists, trainers, acupuncturists, and many others, ensuring your complete satisfaction from the day you check in until the day you graduate from our world-class drug rehab center."
Edited by Dot MatrixLink to comment
Share on other sites
Seth R.
Another book that won't cost a down payment on a house like Passages Malibu does is one by Dr. Gabor Mate' in it he discusses the root causes of addiction.
http://www.amazon.com/Realm-Hungry-Ghosts-Encounters-Addiction/dp/155643880X
Again any questions you can email me.
Seth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
the 12 steps can be boiled down to two
decide you have a problem and stop drinking
easier said then done in my experience
it can be done
if one decides to
there are thousands of reasons to drink
those thousands can't over run the decision to stop
unless you let it
it's down to you
no one else
not some external God to dump on
you are the God
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
btw, having trouble with alcohol or drugs or even religion is not a character flaw
but it's a problem so common that some of the help to beat it becomes a problem in itself
keeping that in mind
in time you see the baits and hooks of vices in your own life
different for each person
not so much 'perfectly', but for yourself, you can get a handle on it
and still live free from the cause and effect of more then just the targeted vice
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
Probably one of the biggest things I learned in aa,
was to stop fighting everybody and everything.
here are some non-12step programs by way of Wikipedia
all the info needed is there
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LifeRing_Secular_Recovery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderation_Management
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narconon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagans_In_Recovery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Organizations_for_Sobriety
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_Recovery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_For_Sobriety
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenikor_Foundation
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Much of the addiction is heredity. If you look carefully, those who are seriously addicted have others in the family who were also. Not necessarily the same substance, but it's there.
I've known a few people who have conquered an addiction without a 12 step program and were successful.
Anyone who has successfully quit smoking has done exactly that - - - wrestled an addiction into the ground without any 12 step program. Once I finally decided I was determines to quit....it took me 7 or 8 serious attempts and about 5 years before I was successful enough to string 30 nonsmoking days together. Once I got that far...the rest was reasonably easy.
edited to add:
If you look in your phone book you may find a few addiction specialist physicians. If you contact them, you may find a good place to start. Frequently physicians can and do make coming off the substance more comfortable and I am sure they will have a list of counselling centers listed for their patient's use. I'm sure if you contact one of them, you'll find what you're looking for.
Edited by krysLink to comment
Share on other sites
cman
one of the things that helped me in aa was
the help of having others to talk to who were experiencing the same type of situation
it helped me to not stay or go all introverted with my problems
if any soul could find that kind of help,it makes a big difference
similar to what many have found here at gsc
if you think your case is special-it is special, you are special
if you think you are alone-you are
surprisingly alone with many loners
your journey can be helped with some soul support
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Lortz
I've never had a physical addiction to anything, but I have been diagnosed with the milder form of bipolar mood disorder, and I facilitate a consumer support group for National Alliance on Mental Illness that meets twice a month. I have a nephew who attends Celebrate Recovery from time-to-time and he was surprised one time when I went with him, and told the group that my hang-up was pride and that I struggle with the temptation to manipulate people. I said I had been clean since 1986 (the year I last deliberately manipulated anybody, while I was on Lightbearers).
Fellowshipping with other people who have been diagnosed with mental illnesses has led me to an awareness of what's called "dual diagnosis", where a person has an underlying mental illness, but has become addicted to one thing or another in an attempt at self-medication. I know I don't have the expertise to deal with physical addiction, but I also know that a person who has a dual diagnosis has to deal with both problems at the same time. If a person tries to deal with them one at a time, the problems will just lead back into each other.
A person who was involved with TWI may not have gone into it with a mental illness, but could very well have come out of the group with post traumatic stress disorder. I know my wife did.
I hope this helps!
Love,
Steve
Edited by Steve LortzLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
whatever works for people is AOK with me as long as they don't push it as the only way
sincerely,
e
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
yeah....
some in aa are pushy, but not the majority that i know of
you can find the aa book online to download
i'm just saying what I've seen that worked for me
not exclusive to aa, that's for sure
more exclusive to me or others
i can only control my own mind (sometimes :) ) not anyone elses
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
thanks c, i don't even think i was referring to aa when i said that whatever works for someone is fine with me
by the way, i probably know more about aa than anyone here :)
love,
e
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shiftthis
all i can tell you is what my dad did. my dad started drinking heavy around 1968. by around 1970(iirc) he would come in from work and start downing 2-6packs of tall bud. after the tall bud he would drink a 5th of vodka. he did this every day until 1992 when my mom told him she was going to divorce him if he didnt stop drinking. he quit right then and hasnt drank again. yes he just up and quit. this is all the help i can offer. i have heard of other people just up and quiting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
In cases involving extreme addiction, there can be severe medical consequences from attempting this. I don't recommend it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
thank you for your reply, shiftthis
love your handle screen name whatever it's called
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.