Rosalie has been working on separating director responsibilities from officer responsibilities. Really, Wierwille was a$$ backwards for amassing all the responsibility in three positions. Up until Rosalie, director(formerly trustee) and officer responsibility were all handled by Prez. VP. and Sec/Treas. Rosalie explained her intentions to separate the roles several years ago at a cabinet meeting, where she had the region coordinators dialed in. She announced that she would do it a lot sooner than she has, so who knows why she has been going so slow.
What she told us was that the officers (Prez, VP, Sec/Treas) would handle the day to day business side of running TWI. The prez. would also have a seat on the BOD and remain a dual role. The board of dummies, on the other hand, would set the heart and direction TWI would take, but let the officers run it. Personally, I think she was getting too old to handle it all herself, though I doubt she has delegated any real authority with the titles.
When I was on the cabinet, the VPs and Sec/Treas were figure heads. They had a lot of responsibility, but no real authority w/o checking with Rosalie first.
Mittler and her fell out about something, I have no idea what, and was demoted as a result. She even had his office moved to the one in the warehouse, adjacent to the dining room. I understand that Platig had opinions and would voice them to Rosalie and would endeavor to discuss things with her, which is a no no. Rupp was sent down to Dayton to run the branch there, not sure if that was a punishment assignment or not, but I suspect it was.
Rosie, Rupp, and De Lisle are all on the BOD. Rosalie is both Prez and Chairman of the Board. Chairman Rosie. :rolleyes:/>
Mel Privette is Secretary Treasurer, and Tom Mullins is Vice President.
It's all insignificant. Rosalie still calls the shots, with Donna Martindale as her closet adviser. :knuddel:/>
Rosie knows nothing of how to delegate and manage effectively. She is the most inefficient, micro-manager I have seen.
Mittler and her fell out about something, I have no idea what, and was demoted as a result. She even had his office moved to the one in the warehouse, adjacent to the dining room. I understand that Platig had opinions and would voice them to Rosalie and would endeavor to discuss things with her, which is a no no. Rupp was sent down to Dayton to run the branch there, not sure if that was a punishment assignment or not, but I suspect it was.
Rosie, Rupp, and De Lisle are all on the BOD. Rosalie is both Prez and Chairman of the Board. Chairman Rosie. :rolleyes:/>/>
Mel Privette is Secretary Treasurer, and Tom Mullins is Vice President.
Mittler was demoted and stuck in that warehouse office? LOL
.....that 'temporary' windowless structure put there as a backroom office
during the transitional years when the OSC dining room was used for sunday services.
Mittler was demoted and stuck in that warehouse office? LOL
.....that 'temporary' windowless structure put there as a backroom office
during the transitional years when the OSC dining room was used for sunday services.
Platig gone.
Rupp gone.
Is DeLisle still on staff?
Where did he go?
I would assume DeLisle is still on staff, but I have no idea. They need him to run international outreach, so he is probably still there. Rupp is still a director, though he is also a branch coordinator in Dayton. Rosalie had this sort of thing in mind for the director position, that is, they could be directors and live elsewhere and not be consumed with ministry business the way the officers necessarily are.
Last I knew, Platig was a branch coordinator in Florida and working as a debt collector.
Yeah, sure.......one can easily be a Dayton Branch coordinator AND summoned to hq for directors' meetings,
BUT that's all just window-dressing posture. Everyone knows that Rosie and Donna run the joint.
I suppose it soothes the imagery and egos of these guys......but they were mostly props anyways.
Obviously, Rosie has pocketed the 'votes' of every decision ahead of time and anyone who dissents
knows that demotion, humiliation and shunning are just one fateful mistake away.
Wierwille did the same. Who really thinks that Ermal held any sway in Vic's trustee mtgs?
Martindale -- same thing. Both Rosie and Reynolds knew their place in the pecking order.
To me, it seems like Rosie is trying to gently demote the vprez guys and sec/tr.....after all,
twi wants to keep from hemorrhaging more leaders, and potential adversaries, if at all possible.
Good points.
I think it's funny she announced term limits on the BOD/officer positions and applies them to everyone but herself. What's it been now? 13, 14 years or so that she has been at the helm? That's not counting the time when she was the power behind the throne.
Enforcing the "no debt" policy upon unsuspecting members of the public, no less.
It's def. ironic.
On the other hand, the only think more boring than a Sunday teaching service is TWI's corporate laundry. At least with Craig you had some excitement and scandal. With Rosalie, all you get is granny trying to steer a 501c3 that doesn't actually contribute anything charitable to society.
I think it's funny she announced term limits on the BOD/officer positions and applies them to everyone but herself. What's it been now? 13, 14 years or so that she has been at the helm? That's not counting the time when she was the power behind the throne.
This is all so simple to sort through now, but I couldn't see it for the life of me while I was under that authority.
The separation of responsibilities is a very poor attempt at mimicking how real orgs run, including other non-profits. For example, a company's Board of Directors. These positions are NEVER what they are in TWI - they are usually staffed with retired CEO's from OTHER SUCCESSFUL COMPANIES IN THE SAME SPACE, or people who have accomplished something in business OUTSIDE the organization so that they have a basis for being able to bring advice in TO the organization. Seats on a normal board are filled with DIVERSITY. Meaning diversity of experience and opinion. And the chairman of the board, who is the position of power, rarely is the same position as the President. Only in cases where there is a founder of a company do you usually see that for the founder themselves. What this practice does is to keep the strategic direction of a company viable and instills a check and balance into the management of the company such that a crackpot can be contained, and officers can be voted out for a new strategic direction. There is NO SUCH CHECK AND BALANCE in TWI. Rosalie appoints puppets to the officer AND BOD positions, then lives like a dictator afraid of a coup, parading leaders up and down and replacing them. She tolerates NO opinion in addition to NO dissention. Any org where there is dictator power with someone not accountable to anyone else it's evil looking for an outlet.
It is NEVER (or almost never) the case where BOTH the Board AND the Corporate office of power resides with the same person. Where you see that it is a power play, pure and simple.
This is just another example of Rosalie's smoke and mirrors. She puts forth lies that basically go unquestioned by a majority of people. To replace supposedly the Board plus Officer power VP and Craig had she gives this logical common sense speech about balance of power and how it needs to be distributed. Then watch her actions - SHE HAS THE MIRROR IMAGE EXACT SAME POWER. Except for now needing to teach as much as VP and Craig, she can sit back and micromanage behind the scenes never really do a whole lot of anything herself at all. What does she do? She doesn't carry a teaching schedule. She presides over a myriad of meetings basically. And she micromanages. That's all she has time for - micromanagers are always oh so busy.
That organization will NEVER improve until someone grows the intestinal fortitude to oust the witch. And that won't happen until she's much closer to the grave than her cold black heart puts her currently. As Jesus stated, you can't put new wine in old wineskins.
Or in a more liberal modern translation, you can't develop a fresh new strategy with an old bag.
This is all so simple to sort through now, but I couldn't see it for the life of me while I was under that authority.
I started seeing it little by little when I was at HQ, but not fully until I was out a couple of years. Rosalie has essentially morphed a cult into a religion. It still functions a cult, but not to the same degree that it once did before the Allen lawsuit. TWI has become a preservation society, cloaked in pseudo corporate legitimacy.
At the cabinet meeting where she had the region coordinators dialed in to announce the split in director/officer functions, Rosie allowed a question and answer session. The question that were asked showed that most of the "top" leadership had no idea what she was doing, or how directors and officers function.
To further illustrate the checks and balances point, look at the history of Apple and Steve Jobs. Jobs was an innovator and the founder of Apple. Founded in 1976, Apple went public in 1980. Part of the process to go public includes the formation of a Board of Directors.
Next, check out the following paragraph from Wikipedia:
"In 1985 a power struggle developed between Jobs and CEO John Sculley, who had been hired two years earlier.[51] The Apple board of directors instructed Sculley to "contain" Jobs and limit his ability to launch expensive forays into untested products. Rather than submit to Sculley's direction, Jobs attempted to oust him from his leadership role at Apple. Sculley found out that Jobs had been attempting to organize a putsch and called a board meeting at which Apple's board of directors sided with Sculley and removed Jobs from his managerial duties.[49] Jobs resigned from Apple and founded NeXT Inc. the same year.[52]"
So Jobs, after founding a company, was fired from it by the BOD. Then he founded NeXT, then Pixar, and then the BOD of Apple hired him back as the CEO in 1997.
This is illustrative of a healthy company with a healthy Board of Directors. Anyone can see nowadays Apple's success. You don't have that kind of success without a BOD that has complete autonomy to make decisions that are strategically in the best interests of the company. This would include decisions like "Hey Mr. or Mrs. Chairman and President, since you took over the company has slipped into a 30% decline in revenue and customer base. So you're out, and we're going with a fresh person and idea".
That's the pattern of a healthy organization, BOD, and Officers.
Now, what about TWI? And what about this parade of VP's?
The BOD at TWI has NEVER had ANY autonomy. It has ALWAYS been a dictatorship. It basically is a figurehead group for the dictator to be able to promote their lieutenants up to a high position as a reward for being the perfect lap dog. Which is a carrot for whoever is going to smooch the bootie most effectively in the rest of the underlings. Best bootie smoocher = next VP. The pattern is the bootie smoocher gets promoted to a high position. Then they start to see in their new position of power and everyone smooching their bootie ways to make things better. This is the beginning of their downfall. They weren't put in that position to think, or to make things better. They were put in that position to smooch bootie, and to illustrate how it is done most effectively to the rest of the leadership group. So thus, veering from their unstated job description, they fail and are demoted to be replaced by a hungrier bootie smoocher.
This complete arrangement is a FAIL by any sense of the word. Biblical standards of leadership? FAIL. Modern working standards? FAIL. This is the blind leading the blind. All while looking down their nose at you promoting their "over 100 years of spiritual wisdom", and dreaming up ways they will screw you over if you cross them.
thus, veering from their unstated job description, they fail and are demoted to be replaced by a hungrier bootie smoocher.
Interesting point. I have an anecdote that illustrates the validity of what you are saying.
At HQ, department coordinators were responsible to have job descriptions on file for every position in their department, including their own position. When Rosalie first decided to come after me, when I was on the cabinet, I was attacked by proxy through one of the VP's. Basically, there was a long standing agreement for a department in my area to avoid the auditorium during advanced class sessions. This agreement predated me by at least a decade.
I show up to work on a Monday morning only to find myself in a heated confrontation with the proxy VP. I was told I was out to lunch spiritually because I did not organize people from that department and go to the PWA while class was in session to handle some minor clean up from a storm. Nevermind the cleanup was behind the auditorium and out of sight of the class.
Not one to back down, I asked VP how I was supposed to know I should violate this long standing, unwritten policy. He stated it was part of my job as cabinet to be "on top of things." I then asked him for my job description as cabinet, since they were required to keep descriptions for all their positions. I was told there were no job descriptions for cabinet positions and I was supposed to do what was needed. No matter that I was explicitly supposed to keep people away from the auditorium during sessions.
Basically, I was told there was no job description and my job was to smooch bootie. They keep the job purposefully vague so that on a whim Rosalie can arbitrarily pounce on whoever gets out of line, for whatever fabricated reason she can dream up at the time.
I can only imagine how much worse it is for the officer/director positions that report directly to her.
The BOD at TWI has NEVER had ANY autonomy. It has ALWAYS been a dictatorship. It basically is a figurehead group for the dictator to be able to promote their lieutenants up to a high position as a reward for being the perfect lap dog.
Wierwille structured twi's BOD for exactly that reason......NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
Even in pfal, wierwille scoffs at those directors in his first pastorate who told him not preach on tithing. What did wierwille do? He did it anyways! He defied their directives and was not going to be beholden to their counsel. Several examples are right there "hiding in plain sight" in pfal. Wierwille mocks biblical scholars and, supposedly, takes 3,000 (??) volumes of commentary to the local dump. And, he shows contempt for those spiritual men at the Oral Roberts Convention who, according to wierwille, couldn't help him speak in tongues. When wierwille told his stories, one is left with heaping judgement on directors, church leaders, scholars and siding with the "humble man" who simply was forging ahead to get answers.
After leaving Van Wert's church payroll in 1957, wierwille had a running start to incorporate The Way, Inc. Fifteen years of church boards was enough! Now, the 40-year old wierwille was going to run things HIS WAY......and boy did he ever! His first "board of directors" consists of a brother, a soft-spoken friend, and himself. This board seemed to have had very little function except non-profit legalize accountability and fund solicitations. By 1978, the second set of directors is wierwille's son, Don, and longtime right-hand man, Howard. See the alpha male pattern of board selections?
It is so obvious.....its outright laughable.
But, in my opinion, it wasn't the board of directors that was so destructive......it was the way corps program. Year after year, the grooming and indoctrination of "corporals, sergeants and lieutenants" amassed the formidable power of perception. Not real power, but the power of perception. Each one marching toward spiritual maturity......an ambiguous, fraudulent concept defined by "spiritual marine corps' hierarchy."
The perception of involvement, the perception of advancement......and yet, what was one accomplishing? Why were they consistently moving the goal posts?
The advanced class wasn't the end, but merely the beginning? The inrez corps program wasn't the end of training, but a lifetime of servitude to twi? Corps grads were to attend weekly corps meetings, report back and on a choke collar to leaderships' liking? Is there any wonder why statistics bear the fact that even church clergy step aside from authoritarian rule after 12-15 years? Whereas, twi was far more confining and restrictive.
What does one discover after 15-20 years in the wierwille camp? BETRAYAL. Wierwille deceived himself and was deceiving others. He was a traitor to spiritual growth and advancement. Things like "the way tree" and "the renewed mind" and "the law of believing" were used (and still are) to tweak the scriptures ever-so-slightly to divert one's path. The renewed mind renewing of one's mind to scriptural truths is perpetual growth. Not some petrified fixation on pfal. Deception, fraud, lies, plagairism, idolatry, etc........wierwille's legacy.
Twi's vice presidents have always been JUST ANOTHER FOLLOWER of the leader.
Like sled dogs, if you are not the leader.......every view is the same.
I show up to work on a Monday morning only to find myself in a heated confrontation with the proxy VP. I was told I was out to lunch spiritually because I did not organize people from that department and go to the PWA while class was in session to handle some minor clean up from a storm. Nevermind the cleanup was behind the auditorium and out of sight of the class.
Not one to back down, I asked VP how I was supposed to know I should violate this long standing, unwritten policy. He stated it was part of my job as cabinet to be "on top of things." I then asked him for my job description as cabinet, since they were required to keep descriptions for all their positions. I was told there were no job descriptions for cabinet positions and I was supposed to do what was needed. No matter that I was explicitly supposed to keep people away from the auditorium during sessions.
I wanted to highlight this again, as it REALLY EXPOSES a lot of how TWI leadership operates. I ran into this type of thing and modus operandi COUNTLESS TIMES. This is the way they operate, and it is destructive, manipulative, and dishonest. Think about how this unfolds. OldSkool is be-bopping along doing his job. Unbeknownst to him, he has unwittingly offended Rosalie. How? Usually through some display of individualism. So she sicks an attack dog on him. OS calls him a "proxy" VP.
OS is told he is "spiritually out to lunch" because basically he did not read the mind of the leader (head cheese - Rosalie) and do what they wanted without the leader making ANY effort to communicate what they wanted through any means - email, phone call, hallway conversation, note, covering it in a meeting, smoke signal, Bat signal, etc. Now any normal person would look at this expectation of mind-reading like it was from a person with severe mental limitations. However, we have Corps training with CP#1 - Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. Predatory TWI leaders use this principle ALL THE TIME to impose their will and ego upon underlings. AND WE ACCEPTED IT AS SANE AND LOGICAL. It is not. There is no promise of mind-reading abilities in the Bible. And no promise God makes in the Bible that you will increase your mind-reading abilities by becoming a bigger bootie smoocher. Yet that is what is being trained here.
What is the impact of this? People don't want to be "spiritually out to lunch". But there is no logical connection between their behavior and the attack of the attack dog. So basically it makes them afraid and unsure of themselves. In a managerial position it produces an unsurety that ANYTHING they are doing is spiritually sharp. It makes people second-guess themselves, be afraid, and be more compliant. It trains them to take it from a leader without ever questioning anything. Make no mistake though, if there is ANY resistance, questioning of the logic in the attack - they will come back harder and meaner. Eventually over time the person learns (not directly, but subconsciously) that the display of individualism brings about the attack, so they stop displaying individualism. This is the old classical conditioning of BF Skinner with the dog food dish and the bell. Ring a bell enough times when you're feeding a dog, and eventually the bell makes him salivate.
Do you see how manipulative, dishonest, and unhealthy being under authority like this is? Logically, if you want the d@mn branches picked up from the auditorium then send a note, ask someone in passing, telegraph, telephone, television. If you don't ask someone to do something, and it doesn't get done, then whose fault is that? Yours. If you want your group to think on their own to handle it, tell them that. Or confront your whole Cabinet on the types of things they need to watch for and stay on top of. Not singling out one person and using the incident to put your thumb on their head.
These types of dishonest and manipulative practices are practices of a cult. They are practices of a person abusing their power or spiritual authority. This is not Rosalie being lazy, or mistaken. This is an atmosphere and habitual practice of continually training lock-step behavior. If someone falls out of lock-step behavior, this is the tactic used to bring them back into line, make them afraid. Then all you really need is making an example of a person or two - with the demotion, firing, the bums rush, shunning, slander, and excommunication. And everyone else falls in line pretty quickly out of fear.
Now any normal person would look at this expectation of mind-reading like it was from a person with severe mental limitations. However, we have Corps training with CP#1 - Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. Predatory TWI leaders use this principle ALL THE TIME to impose their will and ego upon underlings. AND WE ACCEPTED IT AS SANE AND LOGICAL. It is not. There is no promise of mind-reading abilities in the Bible.
Ummm......could it be that wierwille's CP#1 was a mind-reading, bewitching from following truth? [Gal. 3:1]
The false teacher wierwille was perverting the gospel. I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
These types of dishonest and manipulative practices are practices of a cult. They are practices of a person abusing their power or spiritual authority. This is not Rosalie being lazy, or mistaken. This is an atmosphere and habitual practice of continually training lock-step behavior. If someone falls out of lock-step behavior, this is the tactic used to bring them back into line, make them afraid. Then all you really need is making an example of a person or two - with the demotion, firing, the bums rush, shunning, slander, and excommunication. And everyone else falls in line pretty quickly out of fear.
To make matters worse, it was the start of months of fighting and harassment. I didn't get back in line, I fought them tooth and nail. In the old days, the would have just booted me. But Rosalie is so afraid of being sued that they won't do that anymore, unless there are extreme circumstances. What I went through, instead of the bum's rush, was a steady, sustained effort to beat me into submission or make me snap so they could fire me. With each attack I resisted, another would follow - sometimes subtle, most times more intense than the last. Vice Prez. even caught me by surprise one morning and invited himself to my house for an impromptu meeting with me and my wife. At that meeting he tried very hard to pit my wife against me. That didn't work either, but I was appalled at just how devilish the attempt was.
I allowed the harassment to continue, documenting each time it happened, until I had a nice journal of evidence. Then I set a meeting with the lapdog VP and told them I was being harassed and this was my first step in notifying him that I was filing a harassment complaint against him and Rosalie.It all came to a grinding halt, grudgingly I might add. I had every intentions of filing a lawsuit against them if it continued, and I had a nice start with what I had documented. The Allen lawsuit has made them a toothless lion. Their lawyers have made them come up with a harassment policy and add it to their staff handbook. I simply used their system of redress that they have grudgingly been made to follow.
Chockfull is right. If you are afraid of them, and most are, then you will fall back in line with their insanity and run that much faster to seek their approval. In the end all a person becomes is enslaved to an abusive cult, run by abusive people. They crossed the line with me, and instead of cowering, I fought back. It was a twisted chess match, and what they really wanted was for me to snap so they could bum rush me and have it stand in court. Too bad I'm not as stupid as they thought and managed to turn it on them.
I am sure that my reputation amongst TWI has been trampled, and that the whispers of me and my family are completely slanderous. No matter. I have a good life now and am very happy with the direction I am headed. I don't even tell people I was involved with TWI, but only that I worked for a non-profit for a short while. :excl:
OS is told he is "spiritually out to lunch" because basically he did not read the mind of the leader (head cheese - Rosalie) and do what they wanted without the leader making ANY effort to communicate what they wanted through any means - email, phone call, hallway conversation, note, covering it in a meeting, smoke signal, Bat signal, etc. Now any normal person would look at this expectation of mind-reading like it was from a person with severe mental limitations. ...
BUT don't forget also that had OS (in this example, but there are many other such examples) used his own noggin and removed the branches or whatever, he would have been punished for that, for going outside his remit. Leaning to his own understanding / using his five senses / some other excuse. Use of common sense is not valued in TWI.
Basically, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
If you don't ask someone to do something, and it doesn't get done, then whose fault is that? Yours. If you want your group to think on their own to handle it, tell them that.
Now you really are joking. Think on their own??? :blink:/>
Mittler was demoted and stuck in that warehouse office? LOL
.....that 'temporary' windowless structure put there as a backroom office
during the transitional years when the OSC dining room was used for sunday services.
Platig gone.
Rupp gone.
Is DeLisle still on staff?
Where did he go?
Sky, you probably know this, but DL is the new President of the old cult. Â I wonder if he had to sell his soul to the Devil, to put his butt in the big chair.
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OldSkool
Rosalie has been working on separating director responsibilities from officer responsibilities. Really, Wierwille was a$$ backwards for amassing all the responsibility in three positions. Up until Rosalie, director(formerly trustee) and officer responsibility were all handled by Prez. VP. and Sec/Treas. Rosalie explained her intentions to separate the roles several years ago at a cabinet meeting, where she had the region coordinators dialed in. She announced that she would do it a lot sooner than she has, so who knows why she has been going so slow.
What she told us was that the officers (Prez, VP, Sec/Treas) would handle the day to day business side of running TWI. The prez. would also have a seat on the BOD and remain a dual role. The board of dummies, on the other hand, would set the heart and direction TWI would take, but let the officers run it. Personally, I think she was getting too old to handle it all herself, though I doubt she has delegated any real authority with the titles.
When I was on the cabinet, the VPs and Sec/Treas were figure heads. They had a lot of responsibility, but no real authority w/o checking with Rosalie first.
Mittler and her fell out about something, I have no idea what, and was demoted as a result. She even had his office moved to the one in the warehouse, adjacent to the dining room. I understand that Platig had opinions and would voice them to Rosalie and would endeavor to discuss things with her, which is a no no. Rupp was sent down to Dayton to run the branch there, not sure if that was a punishment assignment or not, but I suspect it was.
Rosie, Rupp, and De Lisle are all on the BOD. Rosalie is both Prez and Chairman of the Board. Chairman Rosie. :rolleyes:/>
Mel Privette is Secretary Treasurer, and Tom Mullins is Vice President.
It's all insignificant. Rosalie still calls the shots, with Donna Martindale as her closet adviser. :knuddel:/>
Rosie knows nothing of how to delegate and manage effectively. She is the most inefficient, micro-manager I have seen.
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Twinky
Exit door's getting a bit of use, then, LOL.
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skyrider
Mittler was demoted and stuck in that warehouse office? LOL
.....that 'temporary' windowless structure put there as a backroom office
during the transitional years when the OSC dining room was used for sunday services.
Platig gone.
Rupp gone.
Is DeLisle still on staff?
Where did he go?
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OldSkool
I would assume DeLisle is still on staff, but I have no idea. They need him to run international outreach, so he is probably still there. Rupp is still a director, though he is also a branch coordinator in Dayton. Rosalie had this sort of thing in mind for the director position, that is, they could be directors and live elsewhere and not be consumed with ministry business the way the officers necessarily are.
Last I knew, Platig was a branch coordinator in Florida and working as a debt collector.
DeLisle is still a director as well.
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skyrider
Yeah, sure.......one can easily be a Dayton Branch coordinator AND summoned to hq for directors' meetings,
BUT that's all just window-dressing posture. Everyone knows that Rosie and Donna run the joint.
I suppose it soothes the imagery and egos of these guys......but they were mostly props anyways.
Obviously, Rosie has pocketed the 'votes' of every decision ahead of time and anyone who dissents
knows that demotion, humiliation and shunning are just one fateful mistake away.
Wierwille did the same. Who really thinks that Ermal held any sway in Vic's trustee mtgs?
Martindale -- same thing. Both Rosie and Reynolds knew their place in the pecking order.
To me, it seems like Rosie is trying to gently demote the vprez guys and sec/tr.....after all,
twi wants to keep from hemorrhaging more leaders, and potential adversaries, if at all possible.
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OldSkool
Good points.
I think it's funny she announced term limits on the BOD/officer positions and applies them to everyone but herself. What's it been now? 13, 14 years or so that she has been at the helm? That's not counting the time when she was the power behind the throne.
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chockfull
Because unlike the story of Jezebel, there is no one to throw the witch over the wall. And no one holding the city hostage.
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WordWolf
That was worth repeating.
==================
As a more direct answer to the question,
it's old news, among POLITICAL POWER groups and power groups that rely on
violence and threat of force to stay in power,
that the leader must continually watch themself.
At the first sign of blood, the sharks circle the waters.
They know their underlings can be trusted no more than THEY could be,
and they sleep with one eye open, listening for gunshots and
worrying tomorrow will bring a day when they walk into their office
and someone else is sitting there and running things.
Rosa-lie knows she was sneaking, conniving and backstabbing, and snuck
into power that way. She was untrustworthy. She sees the world through
the eyes of all of that, and lives in a world where no one can be
trusted, where everyone will connive and backstab and sneak around
if they're not observed.
She may live with a lot of creature comforts, but that's ulcer territory.
Worse-if someone succeeds, she may lose all medical coverage and all support
from twi, and she's old, frail, and unsuited to actually work anywhere.
So, she lives trying to manage the FEAR hanging over her every minute
like the Sword of Damocles.
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Twinky
Now that's funny.
Enforcing the "no debt" policy upon unsuspecting members of the public, no less.
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OldSkool
It's def. ironic.
On the other hand, the only think more boring than a Sunday teaching service is TWI's corporate laundry. At least with Craig you had some excitement and scandal. With Rosalie, all you get is granny trying to steer a 501c3 that doesn't actually contribute anything charitable to society.
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chockfull
This is all so simple to sort through now, but I couldn't see it for the life of me while I was under that authority.
The separation of responsibilities is a very poor attempt at mimicking how real orgs run, including other non-profits. For example, a company's Board of Directors. These positions are NEVER what they are in TWI - they are usually staffed with retired CEO's from OTHER SUCCESSFUL COMPANIES IN THE SAME SPACE, or people who have accomplished something in business OUTSIDE the organization so that they have a basis for being able to bring advice in TO the organization. Seats on a normal board are filled with DIVERSITY. Meaning diversity of experience and opinion. And the chairman of the board, who is the position of power, rarely is the same position as the President. Only in cases where there is a founder of a company do you usually see that for the founder themselves. What this practice does is to keep the strategic direction of a company viable and instills a check and balance into the management of the company such that a crackpot can be contained, and officers can be voted out for a new strategic direction. There is NO SUCH CHECK AND BALANCE in TWI. Rosalie appoints puppets to the officer AND BOD positions, then lives like a dictator afraid of a coup, parading leaders up and down and replacing them. She tolerates NO opinion in addition to NO dissention. Any org where there is dictator power with someone not accountable to anyone else it's evil looking for an outlet.
It is NEVER (or almost never) the case where BOTH the Board AND the Corporate office of power resides with the same person. Where you see that it is a power play, pure and simple.
This is just another example of Rosalie's smoke and mirrors. She puts forth lies that basically go unquestioned by a majority of people. To replace supposedly the Board plus Officer power VP and Craig had she gives this logical common sense speech about balance of power and how it needs to be distributed. Then watch her actions - SHE HAS THE MIRROR IMAGE EXACT SAME POWER. Except for now needing to teach as much as VP and Craig, she can sit back and micromanage behind the scenes never really do a whole lot of anything herself at all. What does she do? She doesn't carry a teaching schedule. She presides over a myriad of meetings basically. And she micromanages. That's all she has time for - micromanagers are always oh so busy.
That organization will NEVER improve until someone grows the intestinal fortitude to oust the witch. And that won't happen until she's much closer to the grave than her cold black heart puts her currently. As Jesus stated, you can't put new wine in old wineskins.
Or in a more liberal modern translation, you can't develop a fresh new strategy with an old bag.
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OldSkool
I started seeing it little by little when I was at HQ, but not fully until I was out a couple of years. Rosalie has essentially morphed a cult into a religion. It still functions a cult, but not to the same degree that it once did before the Allen lawsuit. TWI has become a preservation society, cloaked in pseudo corporate legitimacy.
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OldSkool
At the cabinet meeting where she had the region coordinators dialed in to announce the split in director/officer functions, Rosie allowed a question and answer session. The question that were asked showed that most of the "top" leadership had no idea what she was doing, or how directors and officers function.
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chockfull
To further illustrate the checks and balances point, look at the history of Apple and Steve Jobs. Jobs was an innovator and the founder of Apple. Founded in 1976, Apple went public in 1980. Part of the process to go public includes the formation of a Board of Directors.
Next, check out the following paragraph from Wikipedia:
"In 1985 a power struggle developed between Jobs and CEO John Sculley, who had been hired two years earlier.[51] The Apple board of directors instructed Sculley to "contain" Jobs and limit his ability to launch expensive forays into untested products. Rather than submit to Sculley's direction, Jobs attempted to oust him from his leadership role at Apple. Sculley found out that Jobs had been attempting to organize a putsch and called a board meeting at which Apple's board of directors sided with Sculley and removed Jobs from his managerial duties.[49] Jobs resigned from Apple and founded NeXT Inc. the same year.[52]"
So Jobs, after founding a company, was fired from it by the BOD. Then he founded NeXT, then Pixar, and then the BOD of Apple hired him back as the CEO in 1997.
This is illustrative of a healthy company with a healthy Board of Directors. Anyone can see nowadays Apple's success. You don't have that kind of success without a BOD that has complete autonomy to make decisions that are strategically in the best interests of the company. This would include decisions like "Hey Mr. or Mrs. Chairman and President, since you took over the company has slipped into a 30% decline in revenue and customer base. So you're out, and we're going with a fresh person and idea".
That's the pattern of a healthy organization, BOD, and Officers.
Now, what about TWI? And what about this parade of VP's?
The BOD at TWI has NEVER had ANY autonomy. It has ALWAYS been a dictatorship. It basically is a figurehead group for the dictator to be able to promote their lieutenants up to a high position as a reward for being the perfect lap dog. Which is a carrot for whoever is going to smooch the bootie most effectively in the rest of the underlings. Best bootie smoocher = next VP. The pattern is the bootie smoocher gets promoted to a high position. Then they start to see in their new position of power and everyone smooching their bootie ways to make things better. This is the beginning of their downfall. They weren't put in that position to think, or to make things better. They were put in that position to smooch bootie, and to illustrate how it is done most effectively to the rest of the leadership group. So thus, veering from their unstated job description, they fail and are demoted to be replaced by a hungrier bootie smoocher.
This complete arrangement is a FAIL by any sense of the word. Biblical standards of leadership? FAIL. Modern working standards? FAIL. This is the blind leading the blind. All while looking down their nose at you promoting their "over 100 years of spiritual wisdom", and dreaming up ways they will screw you over if you cross them.
Rosalie as a CEO rides the short bus to school.
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OldSkool
Interesting point. I have an anecdote that illustrates the validity of what you are saying.
At HQ, department coordinators were responsible to have job descriptions on file for every position in their department, including their own position. When Rosalie first decided to come after me, when I was on the cabinet, I was attacked by proxy through one of the VP's. Basically, there was a long standing agreement for a department in my area to avoid the auditorium during advanced class sessions. This agreement predated me by at least a decade.
I show up to work on a Monday morning only to find myself in a heated confrontation with the proxy VP. I was told I was out to lunch spiritually because I did not organize people from that department and go to the PWA while class was in session to handle some minor clean up from a storm. Nevermind the cleanup was behind the auditorium and out of sight of the class.
Not one to back down, I asked VP how I was supposed to know I should violate this long standing, unwritten policy. He stated it was part of my job as cabinet to be "on top of things." I then asked him for my job description as cabinet, since they were required to keep descriptions for all their positions. I was told there were no job descriptions for cabinet positions and I was supposed to do what was needed. No matter that I was explicitly supposed to keep people away from the auditorium during sessions.
Basically, I was told there was no job description and my job was to smooch bootie. They keep the job purposefully vague so that on a whim Rosalie can arbitrarily pounce on whoever gets out of line, for whatever fabricated reason she can dream up at the time.
I can only imagine how much worse it is for the officer/director positions that report directly to her.
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skyrider
Wierwille structured twi's BOD for exactly that reason......NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
Even in pfal, wierwille scoffs at those directors in his first pastorate who told him not preach on tithing. What did wierwille do? He did it anyways! He defied their directives and was not going to be beholden to their counsel. Several examples are right there "hiding in plain sight" in pfal. Wierwille mocks biblical scholars and, supposedly, takes 3,000 (??) volumes of commentary to the local dump. And, he shows contempt for those spiritual men at the Oral Roberts Convention who, according to wierwille, couldn't help him speak in tongues. When wierwille told his stories, one is left with heaping judgement on directors, church leaders, scholars and siding with the "humble man" who simply was forging ahead to get answers.
After leaving Van Wert's church payroll in 1957, wierwille had a running start to incorporate The Way, Inc. Fifteen years of church boards was enough! Now, the 40-year old wierwille was going to run things HIS WAY......and boy did he ever! His first "board of directors" consists of a brother, a soft-spoken friend, and himself. This board seemed to have had very little function except non-profit legalize accountability and fund solicitations. By 1978, the second set of directors is wierwille's son, Don, and longtime right-hand man, Howard. See the alpha male pattern of board selections?
It is so obvious.....its outright laughable.
But, in my opinion, it wasn't the board of directors that was so destructive......it was the way corps program. Year after year, the grooming and indoctrination of "corporals, sergeants and lieutenants" amassed the formidable power of perception. Not real power, but the power of perception. Each one marching toward spiritual maturity......an ambiguous, fraudulent concept defined by "spiritual marine corps' hierarchy."
The perception of involvement, the perception of advancement......and yet, what was one accomplishing? Why were they consistently moving the goal posts?
The advanced class wasn't the end, but merely the beginning? The inrez corps program wasn't the end of training, but a lifetime of servitude to twi? Corps grads were to attend weekly corps meetings, report back and on a choke collar to leaderships' liking? Is there any wonder why statistics bear the fact that even church clergy step aside from authoritarian rule after 12-15 years? Whereas, twi was far more confining and restrictive.
What does one discover after 15-20 years in the wierwille camp? BETRAYAL. Wierwille deceived himself and was deceiving others. He was a traitor to spiritual growth and advancement. Things like "the way tree" and "the renewed mind" and "the law of believing" were used (and still are) to tweak the scriptures ever-so-slightly to divert one's path. The renewed mind renewing of one's mind to scriptural truths is perpetual growth. Not some petrified fixation on pfal. Deception, fraud, lies, plagairism, idolatry, etc........wierwille's legacy.
Twi's vice presidents have always been JUST ANOTHER FOLLOWER of the leader.
Like sled dogs, if you are not the leader.......every view is the same.
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chockfull
I wanted to highlight this again, as it REALLY EXPOSES a lot of how TWI leadership operates. I ran into this type of thing and modus operandi COUNTLESS TIMES. This is the way they operate, and it is destructive, manipulative, and dishonest. Think about how this unfolds. OldSkool is be-bopping along doing his job. Unbeknownst to him, he has unwittingly offended Rosalie. How? Usually through some display of individualism. So she sicks an attack dog on him. OS calls him a "proxy" VP.
OS is told he is "spiritually out to lunch" because basically he did not read the mind of the leader (head cheese - Rosalie) and do what they wanted without the leader making ANY effort to communicate what they wanted through any means - email, phone call, hallway conversation, note, covering it in a meeting, smoke signal, Bat signal, etc. Now any normal person would look at this expectation of mind-reading like it was from a person with severe mental limitations. However, we have Corps training with CP#1 - Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. Predatory TWI leaders use this principle ALL THE TIME to impose their will and ego upon underlings. AND WE ACCEPTED IT AS SANE AND LOGICAL. It is not. There is no promise of mind-reading abilities in the Bible. And no promise God makes in the Bible that you will increase your mind-reading abilities by becoming a bigger bootie smoocher. Yet that is what is being trained here.
What is the impact of this? People don't want to be "spiritually out to lunch". But there is no logical connection between their behavior and the attack of the attack dog. So basically it makes them afraid and unsure of themselves. In a managerial position it produces an unsurety that ANYTHING they are doing is spiritually sharp. It makes people second-guess themselves, be afraid, and be more compliant. It trains them to take it from a leader without ever questioning anything. Make no mistake though, if there is ANY resistance, questioning of the logic in the attack - they will come back harder and meaner. Eventually over time the person learns (not directly, but subconsciously) that the display of individualism brings about the attack, so they stop displaying individualism. This is the old classical conditioning of BF Skinner with the dog food dish and the bell. Ring a bell enough times when you're feeding a dog, and eventually the bell makes him salivate.
Do you see how manipulative, dishonest, and unhealthy being under authority like this is? Logically, if you want the d@mn branches picked up from the auditorium then send a note, ask someone in passing, telegraph, telephone, television. If you don't ask someone to do something, and it doesn't get done, then whose fault is that? Yours. If you want your group to think on their own to handle it, tell them that. Or confront your whole Cabinet on the types of things they need to watch for and stay on top of. Not singling out one person and using the incident to put your thumb on their head.
These types of dishonest and manipulative practices are practices of a cult. They are practices of a person abusing their power or spiritual authority. This is not Rosalie being lazy, or mistaken. This is an atmosphere and habitual practice of continually training lock-step behavior. If someone falls out of lock-step behavior, this is the tactic used to bring them back into line, make them afraid. Then all you really need is making an example of a person or two - with the demotion, firing, the bums rush, shunning, slander, and excommunication. And everyone else falls in line pretty quickly out of fear.
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skyrider
Ummm......could it be that wierwille's CP#1 was a mind-reading, bewitching from following truth? [Gal. 3:1]
The false teacher wierwille was perverting the gospel. I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
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OldSkool
To make matters worse, it was the start of months of fighting and harassment. I didn't get back in line, I fought them tooth and nail. In the old days, the would have just booted me. But Rosalie is so afraid of being sued that they won't do that anymore, unless there are extreme circumstances. What I went through, instead of the bum's rush, was a steady, sustained effort to beat me into submission or make me snap so they could fire me. With each attack I resisted, another would follow - sometimes subtle, most times more intense than the last. Vice Prez. even caught me by surprise one morning and invited himself to my house for an impromptu meeting with me and my wife. At that meeting he tried very hard to pit my wife against me. That didn't work either, but I was appalled at just how devilish the attempt was.
I allowed the harassment to continue, documenting each time it happened, until I had a nice journal of evidence. Then I set a meeting with the lapdog VP and told them I was being harassed and this was my first step in notifying him that I was filing a harassment complaint against him and Rosalie.It all came to a grinding halt, grudgingly I might add. I had every intentions of filing a lawsuit against them if it continued, and I had a nice start with what I had documented. The Allen lawsuit has made them a toothless lion. Their lawyers have made them come up with a harassment policy and add it to their staff handbook. I simply used their system of redress that they have grudgingly been made to follow.
Chockfull is right. If you are afraid of them, and most are, then you will fall back in line with their insanity and run that much faster to seek their approval. In the end all a person becomes is enslaved to an abusive cult, run by abusive people. They crossed the line with me, and instead of cowering, I fought back. It was a twisted chess match, and what they really wanted was for me to snap so they could bum rush me and have it stand in court. Too bad I'm not as stupid as they thought and managed to turn it on them.
I am sure that my reputation amongst TWI has been trampled, and that the whispers of me and my family are completely slanderous. No matter. I have a good life now and am very happy with the direction I am headed. I don't even tell people I was involved with TWI, but only that I worked for a non-profit for a short while. :excl:
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excathedra
forgive me, i'll read more later. you people are really wonderful
this grabbed my attention
not seeing any difference in the morph
thanks
when rosalie dies, who has she willed the way to? lol
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Twinky
BUT don't forget also that had OS (in this example, but there are many other such examples) used his own noggin and removed the branches or whatever, he would have been punished for that, for going outside his remit. Leaning to his own understanding / using his five senses / some other excuse. Use of common sense is not valued in TWI.
Basically, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Now you really are joking. Think on their own??? :blink:/>
Can't be allowing dangerous things like that!!
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waysider
I love a parade!!
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Patriot
So here's a question (maybe it should be a new topic).....
As LCM eventually was removed, can Rosie be removed? If so, how?
Maybe LCM just resigned amidst the scandal, pressure and lawsuit. But, if
Rosie did something illegal, or at least what the majority of BOD and Officers
disagreed with, could they collectively exile her?
Was there ever any coup attempt? From what I heard, many of the rank-and-file
followers were 'hoping' for things to get better.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, you probably know this, but DL is the new President of the old cult. Â I wonder if he had to sell his soul to the Devil, to put his butt in the big chair.
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