In retrospect it was obvious they didn't really care about the people involved, just how it would reflect on "the ministry". I look back in amazement that one of us idiot WOW's wasn't injured or worse when they sent us naive, untrained kids in to "confront" your hometown right in the middle of that mess.
There were people at the local levels and in the close knit groups that cared about you, without a doubt. But, for the most part, the organization, itself, didn't give a rat's azz about anything outside of its own interests. Some people, after all these years, still can't seem to wrap their heads around that reality. These forums help bring that reality out of the shadows and into the stark nakedness of the light of day.
There were WOWs who were injured or worse. At the top of TWI it was kept hush hush.
I was thinking about that just a day or two ago. How in the world did we WOWS consent to being sent to God knows where with people we'd never met, with a pittance of money.....
Chances are some zealot talked us into it. It was status to a leader if they produced alot of WOWs out of their area. They didn't give a damn what happened to us once we went.
Think about this.......what if there were no GreaseSpot Forums to comment?
What if.....there were just opposing articles of twi-doctrine?
What if, after leaving twi, you didn't have this wide-range source of opposition to twi?
Do others' comments, reflections, insights, and experiences aid your recovery?
Or, do these discussions appear to be rude and bitter and hyperbole?
Just was wondering.......after reading this article Reader Comments
.
Great post Skyrider, I followed your link from the Old Threads thread . I enjoyed that article from the NY Times - thanks. The Internet is a double-edged sword and takes vigilance and discernment to cut thru the BS; on the flip side, it’s a handy super highway of useful information. Grease Spot is like penicillin that fights the debilitating mindset of TWI’s diseased doctrine and practice.
There’s a lot more to what happens at Grease Spot than just folks expressing their opinions, experiences, etc., along with whatever mood they’re in. I think we bring something in our hearts when we come to Grease Spot – something that is seeking validation…resolution…explanation….or whatever. When I come across a post that resonates with some issue or experience that I’ve had – then ba-da-bing there’s some healing…validation…something is satisfied.
A few years ago I got on this big kick - reading up on conspiracy theories of JFK’s assassination. Never gave it much thought at the time it happened – I think I was in the sixth grade. But years later when they released the horrific Zapruder film footage showing JFK’s head snapping back, it was forever burned into my young mind. So now as an adult reading some of these conspiracy theories – I wouldn’t put much stock in any theory that ignored the simple physics of a human head being forced backward by a bullet from a shooter positioned somewhere forward of the victim. We may never be able to unravel all the mysterious details of JFK’s assassination – but I will always think there was a conspiracy - of at least two people – maybe one on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository and someone else who was forward of the president’s motorcade. Although I grant you there may be some evidence to indicate Colonel Mustard did it with the lead pipe from the Grassy Knoll.
Just like my opinion on the JFK thing mentioned above, my view of TWI is biased – based on personal experiences. I left TWI long before coming to Grease Spot. But it was so validating to come here…so healing….so satisfying…to read posts about others having similar experiences…similar doubts, fears, frustrations, realizations, etc. …I would read a post and think hey, I thought that too - I wasn’t so stupid after all…I had a similar experience reading Penworks’ Undertow – several times she had made a statement along the lines of feeling like she was not spiritual enough to understand a situation or what was going on. That describes my feelings for most of my 12 years in TWI. I’m glad I’m out and I’m glad there’s Grease Spot.
Yep.....back in 1999, I had a long phone conversation with Paul and heard the details. And, sent him a box
with five-years of explicit corps meeting notes and quotes of lcm --- to help with the lawsuit against twi.
.....<snip>
These corps notes were NOT just random, sketchy, drooled-on notes......scribbled during martindale corps-indoctrinated meetings.
Craig's sister, kerry.....corps grad in tulsa......in former life, a paralegal, could type 135-140 words/minute and would sit during corps meetings and, type word-for-word that came from her brother's "teachings." He was "the mog" dontchaknow. Then, these notes were photocopied and she handed me these corps notes week after week. So,........anyways, four of those five years worth of notes I sent to Paul were transcribed in every sense of that word.
Now, picture this.........imagine that the allen lawsuit would have gone to court. And, paul allen's lawyer stood up and read verbatim from those corps notes.....to give the court Exhibit A, B, and C of this cult, its indoctrination, and cult-predatory influence over paul and f3rn allen. Craig would have heard HIS OWN WORDS read back to him and incriminate him...........his own corps teachings transcribed by his sister.
These corps notes were NOT just random, sketchy, drooled-on notes......scribbled during martindale corps-indoctrinated meetings.
Craig's sister, kerry.....corps grad in tulsa......in former life, a paralegal, could type 135-140 words/minute and would sit during corps meetings and, type word-for-word that came from her brother's "teachings." He was "the mog" dontchaknow. Then, these notes were photocopied and she handed me these corps notes week after week. So,........anyways, four of those five years worth of notes I sent to Paul were transcribed in every sense of that word.
Now, picture this.........imagine that the allen lawsuit would have gone to court. And, paul allen's lawyer stood up and read verbatim from those corps notes.....to give the court Exhibit A, B, and C of this cult, its indoctrination, and cult-predatory influence over paul and f3rn allen. Craig would have heard HIS OWN WORDS read back to him and incriminate him...........his own corps teachings transcribed by his sister.
If there were no GS then there would be one less resource for people to recover from the negative impact of the Way International.
One of my relatives has a rare disease, OT - tremors. There are only a handful of people diagnosed with this disease across the world. She had great deliverance over the course of the last couple years when these folks got together and shared their stories, they even had a retreat. Hearing similar stories helped her to adjust to her disease, feel not alone, and since the two meetings she talks about them a great deal. Just seeing another human adjust to the condition and live a 'normal' life helped her so much.
Like her, we who have experienced TWI also have a rare disease. I will be the first to admit I am damaged from it. The experiences there have affected aspects of my entire life into today. There aren't many people in public that can relate to me regarding this experience. it affects a lot in my life. I could ignore, that, suppress that, or admit it and heal and adjust. But admit it or not, my 'normal' life is a lot like my relative trying to adjust.
To me the real heroes of The Way International experience are not the ones in lofty places, with condescending attitudes, being installed with pomp and ceremony into the highest offices of the organization that is growing less relevant every year. Not those who bury their heads in the sand, "thinking no evil" like the 3 monkey statue shows. Not those who use others to advance themselves. Not the enablers.
No, the real heroes of The Way International are found on these pages. Those who tell the truth. Those who expose the lies, the control, the manipulation. Those who share real life drama about escape and adjustment. Those who say what everyone is thinking in the audience but are afraid to express to anyone - yes the STS sucks. Like every Way production. Boring, read teachings, whitewashed messages, all lies. The truth is what happens behind closed doors, where they are meeting out of fear.
If you want to see a real hero from the Way experience, go look in the mirror. It's you. You survived. You told the truth. You, my friends on Greasespot, are the true heroes, not the moral midget being installed as President or any of his Pharisee buddies. Or any of the various hucksters selling versions of lies for their own profit.
You are the true heroes. Even if you're damaged like me.
Think about this.......what if there were no GreaseSpot Forums to comment?
What if.....there were just opposing articles of twi-doctrine?
What if, after leaving twi, you didn't have this wide-range source of opposition to twi?
Do others' comments, reflections, insights, and experiences aid your recovery?
Or, do these discussions appear to be rude and bitter and hyperbole?
Just was wondering.......after reading this article Reader Comments
.
I think GSC is a wonderful place to vent, and try to understand what happened to us during our time in TWI. However, a few people come on and post some really nasty stuff. If someone wants to disagree with me, that is fine. I can deal with it. But some people anger me when they go out of their way to .... other people off, or make nasty personal comments. We all adults, let's act like it. And so ends Grace's Sermon for the day!
Skyrider, this may need another thread, but I would like to know about the deprogramming you went through. What did they tell you? Was it true? Did it sink in? How did you get out and come back to twi? Did anything good come out of it, or was your commitment to twi increased?
Yes, I would like to know also. Unless of course, it is something you would rather not discuss.
There were people at the local levels and in the close knit groups that cared about you, without a doubt. But, for the most part, the organization, itself, didn't give a rat's azz about anything outside of its own interests. Some people, after all these years, still can't seem to wrap their heads around that reality. These forums help bring that reality out of the shadows and into the stark nakedness of the light of day.
For sure Waysider. I had no idea of all the nasty stuff that some of the leadership did. I thought VPW, and Craig were true men of God for example. It wasn't until I came to the GSC, that I learned the whole truth. TWI was far more twisted, and perverted than I knew. And some of the women have shared their experiences with VPW, and other leaders. Some of their stories made me cry; how could anyone mistreat people that way. But, sometimes the posts make me laugh, or think. The GSC is helping me process my time in TWI.
There were WOWs who were injured or worse. At the top of TWI it was kept hush hush.
I was thinking about that just a day or two ago. How in the world did we WOWS consent to being sent to God knows where with people we'd never met, with a pittance of money.....
Chances are some zealot talked us into it. It was status to a leader if they produced alot of WOWs out of their area. They didn't give a damn what happened to us once we went.
For sure!! My WOW year was horrible; I was so happy when my year was up. I know some people had good WOW years. But most of the people I know who went, hated it.
Great post Skyrider, I followed your link from the Old Threads thread . I enjoyed that article from the NY Times - thanks. The Internet is a double-edged sword and takes vigilance and discernment to cut thru the BS; on the flip side, it’s a handy super highway of useful information. Grease Spot is like penicillin that fights the debilitating mindset of TWI’s diseased doctrine and practice.
There’s a lot more to what happens at Grease Spot than just folks expressing their opinions, experiences, etc., along with whatever mood they’re in. I think we bring something in our hearts when we come to Grease Spot – something that is seeking validation…resolution…explanation….or whatever. When I come across a post that resonates with some issue or experience that I’ve had – then ba-da-bing there’s some healing…validation…something is satisfied.
A few years ago I got on this big kick - reading up on conspiracy theories of JFK’s assassination. Never gave it much thought at the time it happened – I think I was in the sixth grade. But years later when they released the horrific Zapruder film footage showing JFK’s head snapping back, it was forever burned into my young mind. So now as an adult reading some of these conspiracy theories – I wouldn’t put much stock in any theory that ignored the simple physics of a human head being forced backward by a bullet from a shooter positioned somewhere forward of the victim. We may never be able to unravel all the mysterious details of JFK’s assassination – but I will always think there was a conspiracy - of at least two people – maybe one on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository and someone else who was forward of the president’s motorcade. Although I grant you there may be some evidence to indicate Colonel Mustard did it with the lead pipe from the Grassy Knoll.
Just like my opinion on the JFK thing mentioned above, my view of TWI is biased – based on personal experiences. I left TWI long before coming to Grease Spot. But it was so validating to come here…so healing….so satisfying…to read posts about others having similar experiences…similar doubts, fears, frustrations, realizations, etc. …I would read a post and think hey, I thought that too - I wasn’t so stupid after all…I had a similar experience reading Penworks’ Undertow – several times she had made a statement along the lines of feeling like she was not spiritual enough to understand a situation or what was going on. That describes my feelings for most of my 12 years in TWI. I’m glad I’m out and I’m glad there’s Grease Spot.
Yes!!! I too am glad to be out, and I am glad to post at the GSC.
If there were no GS then there would be one less resource for people to recover from the negative impact of the Way International.
One of my relatives has a rare disease, OT - tremors. There are only a handful of people diagnosed with this disease across the world. She had great deliverance over the course of the last couple years when these folks got together and shared their stories, they even had a retreat. Hearing similar stories helped her to adjust to her disease, feel not alone, and since the two meetings she talks about them a great deal. Just seeing another human adjust to the condition and live a 'normal' life helped her so much.
Like her, we who have experienced TWI also have a rare disease. I will be the first to admit I am damaged from it. The experiences there have affected aspects of my entire life into today. There aren't many people in public that can relate to me regarding this experience. it affects a lot in my life. I could ignore, that, suppress that, or admit it and heal and adjust. But admit it or not, my 'normal' life is a lot like my relative trying to adjust.
To me the real heroes of The Way International experience are not the ones in lofty places, with condescending attitudes, being installed with pomp and ceremony into the highest offices of the organization that is growing less relevant every year. Not those who bury their heads in the sand, "thinking no evil" like the 3 monkey statue shows. Not those who use others to advance themselves. Not the enablers.
No, the real heroes of The Way International are found on these pages. Those who tell the truth. Those who expose the lies, the control, the manipulation. Those who share real life drama about escape and adjustment. Those who say what everyone is thinking in the audience but are afraid to express to anyone - yes the STS sucks. Like every Way production. Boring, read teachings, whitewashed messages, all lies. The truth is what happens behind closed doors, where they are meeting out of fear.
If you want to see a real hero from the Way experience, go look in the mirror. It's you. You survived. You told the truth. You, my friends on Greasespot, are the true heroes, not the moral midget being installed as President or any of his Pharisee buddies. Or any of the various hucksters selling versions of lies for their own profit.
You are the true heroes. Even if you're damaged like me.
What a great post!! Thanks for posting this. It is so true!!
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chockfull
If there were no GS then there would be one less resource for people to recover from the negative impact of the Way International. One of my relatives has a rare disease, OT - tremors. There
skyrider
More Details On This: These corps notes were NOT just random, sketchy, drooled-on notes......scribbled during martindale corps-indoctrinated meetings. Craig's sister, kerry.....corp
skyrider
Wierwille's twi was structured with NO OPEN DIALOGUE. Wierwille's pfal was cunningly calculated to AVOID ANY QUESTIONING. Wierwille's adv class was devised with REPETITIVE, POSITIVE FEEDBACK. Wierw
skyrider
JJ --- check pm
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Twinky
I'd like to know too, Skyrider. Please do start a thread.
VPW did tell some horror stories about deprogramming...but who knows how believable those stories were?
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JavaJane
Thanks, Sky.
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skyrider
Yes, I plan to share my deprogramming story......
When I first sat down to compile my 10 day deprogramming episode at Wanda Wierwille's typewriter, the result was 36 pages.
During this kidnapping and detainment, each day began with confrontation and I categorized and pegged these associations to
memory each and every day. So, rather than having a muddled mess.....I was able to document and memorize 10-days worth of
details after escape.
In reading thru my report, wierwille was astounded that I had documented all this detail. No one before me had ever been
able to give such detail of the names, places, deprogrammers, ex-twiers involved, books used to refute twi, etc.
Much like how HCW came forth with the L.E.A.D. accident and details leading up to the corps girl's death......if recounted
in full, it stirs hundreds of memories and scores of questions. This deprogramming episode changed the trajectory of my life.
And, I plan to tell it. But not right now.
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Oakspear
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waysider
There were people at the local levels and in the close knit groups that cared about you, without a doubt. But, for the most part, the organization, itself, didn't give a rat's azz about anything outside of its own interests. Some people, after all these years, still can't seem to wrap their heads around that reality. These forums help bring that reality out of the shadows and into the stark nakedness of the light of day.
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outandabout
Oak -
There were WOWs who were injured or worse. At the top of TWI it was kept hush hush.
I was thinking about that just a day or two ago. How in the world did we WOWS consent to being sent to God knows where with people we'd never met, with a pittance of money.....
Chances are some zealot talked us into it. It was status to a leader if they produced alot of WOWs out of their area. They didn't give a damn what happened to us once we went.
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T-Bone
Great post Skyrider, I followed your link from the Old Threads thread
. I enjoyed that article from the NY Times - thanks. The Internet is a double-edged sword and takes vigilance and discernment to cut thru the BS; on the flip side, it’s a handy super highway of useful information. Grease Spot is like penicillin that fights the debilitating mindset of TWI’s diseased doctrine and practice.
There’s a lot more to what happens at Grease Spot than just folks expressing their opinions, experiences, etc., along with whatever mood they’re in. I think we bring something in our hearts when we come to Grease Spot – something that is seeking validation…resolution…explanation….or whatever. When I come across a post that resonates with some issue or experience that I’ve had – then ba-da-bing there’s some healing…validation…something is satisfied.
A few years ago I got on this big kick - reading up on conspiracy theories of JFK’s assassination. Never gave it much thought at the time it happened – I think I was in the sixth grade. But years later when they released the horrific Zapruder film footage showing JFK’s head snapping back, it was forever burned into my young mind. So now as an adult reading some of these conspiracy theories – I wouldn’t put much stock in any theory that ignored the simple physics of a human head being forced backward by a bullet from a shooter positioned somewhere forward of the victim. We may never be able to unravel all the mysterious details of JFK’s assassination – but I will always think there was a conspiracy - of at least two people – maybe one on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository and someone else who was forward of the president’s motorcade. Although I grant you there may be some evidence to indicate Colonel Mustard did it with the lead pipe from the Grassy Knoll.
Just like my opinion on the JFK thing mentioned above, my view of TWI is biased – based on personal experiences. I left TWI long before coming to Grease Spot. But it was so validating to come here…so healing….so satisfying…to read posts about others having similar experiences…similar doubts, fears, frustrations, realizations, etc. …I would read a post and think hey, I thought that too - I wasn’t so stupid after all…I had a similar experience reading Penworks’ Undertow – several times she had made a statement along the lines of feeling like she was not spiritual enough to understand a situation or what was going on. That describes my feelings for most of my 12 years in TWI. I’m glad I’m out and I’m glad there’s Grease Spot.
Edited by T-Boneaccuracy & clarity
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Rocky
Great article at the NYTimes.
I believe the ground rules here and that moderators oversee the forums make a HUGE difference.
Trancechat failed largely because it was not moderated and there was no way to know who was posting under what user names.
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skyrider
More Details On This:
These corps notes were NOT just random, sketchy, drooled-on notes......scribbled during martindale corps-indoctrinated meetings.
Craig's sister, kerry.....corps grad in tulsa......in former life, a paralegal, could type 135-140 words/minute and would sit during corps meetings and, type word-for-word that came from her brother's "teachings." He was "the mog" dontchaknow.
Then, these notes were photocopied and she handed me these corps notes week after week. So,........anyways, four of those five years worth of notes I sent to Paul were transcribed in every sense of that word.
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Rocky
More of the exquisite irony.
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chockfull
If there were no GS then there would be one less resource for people to recover from the negative impact of the Way International.
One of my relatives has a rare disease, OT - tremors. There are only a handful of people diagnosed with this disease across the world. She had great deliverance over the course of the last couple years when these folks got together and shared their stories, they even had a retreat. Hearing similar stories helped her to adjust to her disease, feel not alone, and since the two meetings she talks about them a great deal. Just seeing another human adjust to the condition and live a 'normal' life helped her so much.
Like her, we who have experienced TWI also have a rare disease. I will be the first to admit I am damaged from it. The experiences there have affected aspects of my entire life into today. There aren't many people in public that can relate to me regarding this experience. it affects a lot in my life. I could ignore, that, suppress that, or admit it and heal and adjust. But admit it or not, my 'normal' life is a lot like my relative trying to adjust.
To me the real heroes of The Way International experience are not the ones in lofty places, with condescending attitudes, being installed with pomp and ceremony into the highest offices of the organization that is growing less relevant every year. Not those who bury their heads in the sand, "thinking no evil" like the 3 monkey statue shows. Not those who use others to advance themselves. Not the enablers.
No, the real heroes of The Way International are found on these pages. Those who tell the truth. Those who expose the lies, the control, the manipulation. Those who share real life drama about escape and adjustment. Those who say what everyone is thinking in the audience but are afraid to express to anyone - yes the STS sucks. Like every Way production. Boring, read teachings, whitewashed messages, all lies. The truth is what happens behind closed doors, where they are meeting out of fear.
If you want to see a real hero from the Way experience, go look in the mirror. It's you. You survived. You told the truth. You, my friends on Greasespot, are the true heroes, not the moral midget being installed as President or any of his Pharisee buddies. Or any of the various hucksters selling versions of lies for their own profit.
You are the true heroes. Even if you're damaged like me.
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Twinky
I hear ya, chocky. Absolutely.
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krys
I believe we have something in common. I think I'll stand over here it it's all the same to you guys.
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Grace Valerie Claire
I think GSC is a wonderful place to vent, and try to understand what happened to us during our time in TWI. However, a few people come on and post some really nasty stuff. If someone wants to disagree with me, that is fine. I can deal with it. But some people anger me when they go out of their way to .... other people off, or make nasty personal comments. We all adults, let's act like it. And so ends Grace's Sermon for the day!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Yes, I would like to know also. Unless of course, it is something you would rather not discuss.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, you are so right!! I would love to hear about anyone's deprogramming, if he or she would like to share it.
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Grace Valerie Claire
That's fine; it is your story to tell. But I would love to read it.
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Grace Valerie Claire
For sure Waysider. I had no idea of all the nasty stuff that some of the leadership did. I thought VPW, and Craig were true men of God for example. It wasn't until I came to the GSC, that I learned the whole truth. TWI was far more twisted, and perverted than I knew. And some of the women have shared their experiences with VPW, and other leaders. Some of their stories made me cry; how could anyone mistreat people that way. But, sometimes the posts make me laugh, or think. The GSC is helping me process my time in TWI.
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Grace Valerie Claire
For sure!! My WOW year was horrible; I was so happy when my year was up. I know some people had good WOW years. But most of the people I know who went, hated it.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Yes!!! I too am glad to be out, and I am glad to post at the GSC.
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Grace Valerie Claire
What a great post!! Thanks for posting this. It is so true!!
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Rocky
Did you yet find the threads where Skyrider told that story?
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Grace Valerie Claire
No, I am still learning how to find the threads. I'm sure I will find it in time.
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