Some of you re-define the term, "Ignorance is bliss"! Especially when it comes to you who decide on what to keep posted on here. So, I see the cup 1/2 full and decide that my time with the way was well spent, and enjoyed the PFAL class and the truth in it, you label me as someone who doesn't agree with you and therefore WRONG! What makes you so correct? Can you please give me some Biblical truths that support your thinking?
So, you have fond memories of The Way and PFAL. Good for you. Many people do. I, too, have some fond memories of my time in The Way. No one is trying to take that away from you.
Here's some good stuff to chew on!
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Oh yeah, and some people who visit here spent many years at HQ, and your point of view is that it was wasted time. Wow, common sense tells suggests that any amount of time spent in someones life which exceeded a year is going to have a profound influence on them, and if they should "write it off" as "wasted", then that potion of their life was indeed a waste. To each their own if they so chose to, however I chose to think of those days as very blessed and God smiling!
Dr. may have gotten some of his info from other Ministers, but no-one put it all together like he did is a short succinct class called PFAF!
First of all, he wasn't a "Dr.". There is a ton of information on this site that deals with his fraudulent credentials. Furthermore, you are incorrect in saying that no one else "put it all together". The PFAL class, in its original form, was really a class that was "put together" by B.G. Leonard. Later he added entire sections of material by Stiles, Bullinger and others. Most of what he wrote was plagiarized from others. Some of it was copied word for word, line for line, page for page. If you need to see some examples of what I'm talking about, I or someone else would be glad to point you in the direction of said information.
So, I support Dr.'s teachings, it appears that those like my self are dwindling as even HQ itself has gotten far away from the foundational class. Some of you may find it quite compatible for you there now!
And look on the bright side hey! If you didn't have people like me, who would you have to challenge your thinking and logic? Who would get you to defend your ignorance and unbelief?
As it turns out, I rather enjoy having my thinking and logic challenged. It seems to evoke an antithesis of sorts for ignorance and unbelief.
Mostly what I see here is a few who never really "got it" at all and want to feel good about never changing their thinking to coincide with God's word.
What is the "it" that you assume I never got? You don't know me. You have no way of knowing whether or to what degree I changed my thinking to coincide with Way Theology. Is that what you mean by God's Word? I'm afraid you'll have to demonstrate how the two could be synonymous.
This explains a LOT about the direction humanity is moving today in the U.S.
Freedom of speech and agreement are two different things.
No one's freedom of speech is impinged, infringed or otherwise impeded on or by GS.
That is self evident or should be - the fact that your opinion showed up here Preacher, a response and reaction to both perceived and real difference of opinion - is proof that you were:
1. Free to speak
2. Spoke freely using the facility of GS.
So -
Your opinions are self perpetuated and self existing with or without the freedom to express them. You are free to produce them, have them and own them. They're yours. And you're clearly free to express them as you see fit. You did.
I do find it hiLARIOUS that this thread is titled that.
Secondly - your logic is askew, dear. You say that "you label me as someone who doesn't agree with you and therefore WRONG! "
Aside from right or wrong I do know that what would make you either isn't the result of my agreeing or disagreeing with you. To disagree with you a 1,000 times over and 70 times that, would not make you right if you were wrong, or vice versa.
* Agreement is a measurement. Think of it like a metric Preach'. Two things align to nn (some) degree. On face value that alignment doesn't produce a right or wrong value. Also - the fact that there's variance might be correct, in actual fact so if that's the case "disagreement" or agreement might be expected in certain things, in order to get to the correct result.
* Agreement doesn't mean that two or more things are the "same thing" - a fuzzy area for The Way in the theology over the years - agreement can never mean that two things are the same because that's impossible - if they were they wouldn't be two things, they'd be one. Ephesians refers to that, in relation to two becoming one "flesh", man and woman, Christ and the Church, and is called a "deep mystery", a profound "truth" as it were. In that way to aspire to an agreement on what people do or act or think or opinion-ate on isn't realistic and may not even be worthy of something as weighty as 'truth". In other words - so what? we agree or disagree. The ongoing effort to learn and know the 'truth" is a more worthy effort.
*On a practical level, in application, agreement of two people on a certain thought or idea (for instance) doesn't imply right/wrong values to that agreement - agreement is quantitative before it's qualitative - 2 + 2 = 4..........1 + 3 = 4. We have agreement in differences there but we have the same amount, "4", of.....something. What that is and if there's "agreement" in that something is a different thing, again. However would submit that Christian thought today often ignores the simple plain realities of life - that the totals, the results of many things can be arrived at using different methods. This is not a "worldly" or ungodly view either - it's seen in the history of the bible and God's workings with His creation and people. All points come together in Christ however - an interesting thing to ponder.
* In regards to "truth" or "truths" as you call them, I think we should accept some ground rules - I don't think you or my own experience constitutes "truth" in a universal way, in a way that's repeatable and consistent in the way that something like even a natural law is considered. ("gravity" is the usual whipping boy here) ... I mention that because yours and my own experience with the Way, the people and even the Word that was involved in being taught and how we received it, doesn't constitute something that has to be agreed on in the same way we agree on "Truth"......reason: human agency. The delivery system wasn't perfect 100 per cent of the time or consistently reliable and repeatable - it changed from person to person and year to year. Same with the medium of the "class" on film and written in books. Those things are less subject to variation but what they actuall are and were don't constitute something that "has" to be 'truth" and therefore agree upon -
* The material in PFAL - right or wrong? In your premise here it doesn't matter - not really. You can choose to believe it or not. Same as anyone else. Doesn't matter if we agree. Or that you disagree.
Hmmm, what else. Those "Biblical truths" - I'm not clear on what's got your goat in a twitch - Wayfers are just like ex Wayfers who are just like everyone else - a dik is a dik, with or without the Word. I don't care how "right" you are, VPW hisself used to say "I don't care if it's the truth of God's Word, I wouldn't believe it"....in PFAL. Remember that? If not, go find where he says it and what he's talking about. He meant that if you're an a-hole about being right you're not going to get anywhere with people. that some things can be so right yet be so wrong. * He also meant that if he didn't like something or think it was right, he didn't care if it was "God's Word" - Funny that he expressed it that way, but most people didn't notice or were snoozing at that point anyway. But that's in "PFAF" as you titled it, which I assume is the same class Not to worry, I can't type worth a hoot either.
Why is it important to you whether others agree with you or not? If you're sure of yourself and honest in your desire to help others, just do it. If I don't agree with it - big f-ing deal. Don't let that dissuade you.
He also meant that if he didn't like something or think it was right, he didn't care if it was "God's Word" - Funny that he expressed it that way, but most people didn't notice or were snoozing at that point anyway.
holy crapola i was snoozing, but i'm not surprised in the least
hey preacher, how do you "feel" about a preacher who uses his/her calling, position, what-have-you.... to sexually abuse naive followers? even at HEADQUARTERS !!!!!
the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple
There's a lot in the film version of 1967 that escaped the consciousness. I would not take the position of scrapping the doctrinal points verbatim because a great deal of it is in the Bible. And I'm sure Preach' here knows that many many of those who "took" PFAL didn't absorb it in it's entirety the first time. After a few dozen though it should be pretty well baked in, y'know?
Oh yeah, and some people who visit here spent many years at HQ, and your point of view is that it was wasted time.
Wasted time? Not entirely.. I'd have to throw away two children along with three grandchildren to call it wasted time.. what about you?
Maybe it is unrecoverable time.. gone past. Maybe it is time to *really* grow up and DO SOMETHING. Anything.. what? Perhaps it depends on the individual.. I'd say what I did if you are really interested.
I get the impression that you think that everyone's time was actually as wonderbar as yours was, or if it wasn't it was because we were lacking somehow. Same old blame the victim stuff that ran like a thick red thread through TWI. You insult people and whine in the same post. Boy does that bring back memories of TWI leadership.
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waysider
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year2027
nothing first
thanks Preacher
Mr Preacher I sorry I broke your Freedom of Speech
it was not planed I just do not agree with your views
I guss you broke mine too but does make right
so we are both wrong
with love of nothing and holy kiss of something from Roy
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socks
Quack.
This explains a LOT about the direction humanity is moving today in the U.S.
Freedom of speech and agreement are two different things.
No one's freedom of speech is impinged, infringed or otherwise impeded on or by GS.
That is self evident or should be - the fact that your opinion showed up here Preacher, a response and reaction to both perceived and real difference of opinion - is proof that you were:
1. Free to speak
2. Spoke freely using the facility of GS.
So -
Your opinions are self perpetuated and self existing with or without the freedom to express them. You are free to produce them, have them and own them. They're yours. And you're clearly free to express them as you see fit. You did.
I do find it hiLARIOUS that this thread is titled that.
Secondly - your logic is askew, dear. You say that "you label me as someone who doesn't agree with you and therefore WRONG! "
Aside from right or wrong I do know that what would make you either isn't the result of my agreeing or disagreeing with you. To disagree with you a 1,000 times over and 70 times that, would not make you right if you were wrong, or vice versa.
* Agreement is a measurement. Think of it like a metric Preach'. Two things align to nn (some) degree. On face value that alignment doesn't produce a right or wrong value. Also - the fact that there's variance might be correct, in actual fact so if that's the case "disagreement" or agreement might be expected in certain things, in order to get to the correct result.
* Agreement doesn't mean that two or more things are the "same thing" - a fuzzy area for The Way in the theology over the years - agreement can never mean that two things are the same because that's impossible - if they were they wouldn't be two things, they'd be one. Ephesians refers to that, in relation to two becoming one "flesh", man and woman, Christ and the Church, and is called a "deep mystery", a profound "truth" as it were. In that way to aspire to an agreement on what people do or act or think or opinion-ate on isn't realistic and may not even be worthy of something as weighty as 'truth". In other words - so what? we agree or disagree. The ongoing effort to learn and know the 'truth" is a more worthy effort.
*On a practical level, in application, agreement of two people on a certain thought or idea (for instance) doesn't imply right/wrong values to that agreement - agreement is quantitative before it's qualitative - 2 + 2 = 4..........1 + 3 = 4. We have agreement in differences there but we have the same amount, "4", of.....something. What that is and if there's "agreement" in that something is a different thing, again. However would submit that Christian thought today often ignores the simple plain realities of life - that the totals, the results of many things can be arrived at using different methods. This is not a "worldly" or ungodly view either - it's seen in the history of the bible and God's workings with His creation and people. All points come together in Christ however - an interesting thing to ponder.
* In regards to "truth" or "truths" as you call them, I think we should accept some ground rules - I don't think you or my own experience constitutes "truth" in a universal way, in a way that's repeatable and consistent in the way that something like even a natural law is considered. ("gravity" is the usual whipping boy here) ... I mention that because yours and my own experience with the Way, the people and even the Word that was involved in being taught and how we received it, doesn't constitute something that has to be agreed on in the same way we agree on "Truth"......reason: human agency. The delivery system wasn't perfect 100 per cent of the time or consistently reliable and repeatable - it changed from person to person and year to year. Same with the medium of the "class" on film and written in books. Those things are less subject to variation but what they actuall are and were don't constitute something that "has" to be 'truth" and therefore agree upon -
* The material in PFAL - right or wrong? In your premise here it doesn't matter - not really. You can choose to believe it or not. Same as anyone else. Doesn't matter if we agree. Or that you disagree.
Hmmm, what else. Those "Biblical truths" - I'm not clear on what's got your goat in a twitch - Wayfers are just like ex Wayfers who are just like everyone else - a dik is a dik, with or without the Word. I don't care how "right" you are, VPW hisself used to say "I don't care if it's the truth of God's Word, I wouldn't believe it"....in PFAL. Remember that? If not, go find where he says it and what he's talking about. He meant that if you're an a-hole about being right you're not going to get anywhere with people. that some things can be so right yet be so wrong. * He also meant that if he didn't like something or think it was right, he didn't care if it was "God's Word" - Funny that he expressed it that way, but most people didn't notice or were snoozing at that point anyway. But that's in "PFAF" as you titled it, which I assume is the same class Not to worry, I can't type worth a hoot either.
Why is it important to you whether others agree with you or not? If you're sure of yourself and honest in your desire to help others, just do it. If I don't agree with it - big f-ing deal. Don't let that dissuade you.
*
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excathedra
grace is bliss but that's beside the point
holy crapola i was snoozing, but i'm not surprised in the leasthey preacher, how do you "feel" about a preacher who uses his/her calling, position, what-have-you.... to sexually abuse naive followers? even at HEADQUARTERS !!!!!
now that i agree with even if it took me a while
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socks
It's there, sitting like a duh-! :dance:/>
There's a lot in the film version of 1967 that escaped the consciousness. I would not take the position of scrapping the doctrinal points verbatim because a great deal of it is in the Bible. And I'm sure Preach' here knows that many many of those who "took" PFAL didn't absorb it in it's entirety the first time. After a few dozen though it should be pretty well baked in, y'know?
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Ham
I dunno. It's like bees in your head, you can't explain them, but there they are..
sowy.
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Ham
Wasted time? Not entirely.. I'd have to throw away two children along with three grandchildren to call it wasted time.. what about you?
Maybe it is unrecoverable time.. gone past. Maybe it is time to *really* grow up and DO SOMETHING. Anything.. what? Perhaps it depends on the individual.. I'd say what I did if you are really interested.
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Bramble
I get the impression that you think that everyone's time was actually as wonderbar as yours was, or if it wasn't it was because we were lacking somehow. Same old blame the victim stuff that ran like a thick red thread through TWI. You insult people and whine in the same post. Boy does that bring back memories of TWI leadership.
You learned well, grasshoppa.
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