how long before someone declared some kind of impasse..
Raf.. how is it you can start a topic, and get 71 pages of responses.. I start one, and get less than a dozen responses, and generally less than three pages? I'm jealous..
well, no, not jealous.
Something HAD to get you on the trail here..
I had close to something like that happen in a political science class..
once, long ago..
before the u.s. citizens really had a REASON to worry about trade with China..
"well. we can't afford the blue ray thingy.. the cheap computer, etc.. except at wal*mart.."
that was their response.. forget unbridled pollution of a foreign land.. decimation of competition on a global scale..
my answer- don't BUY the damned thing.
you really don't have a logical or legitimate *need* to view old stinking movies in super high definition..
Oops. Busted. Was just trying to cool things down. I ran it past the other mods and gave them veto power. I was trying to cool down and let the other mods review things. I am not above the rules. If i cross the line, i expect to be held accountable. But that's why i cannot reprimand anyone on that thread.
my apologies. Just trying to cool things down.
It is true that there were no complaints, though, and I deliberately waited for chockfull to post again before the lockdown. It was never going to last more than a couple of hours.
The thread is reopened and the modcat5 post has been deleted.
I think participants on the thread can vouch for me that I never edited or chastised anyone while wearing the modhat.
I accept all guilt and the freedom that comes with that, Raf.
We've never met but I feel like I know you and I enjoy your thoughts and writing.
You're no slouch so you had to know, or might have suspected that if I was using my noodle I would never say "Chinese" without understanding what that might imply, in English anyway. But I wasn't trying to instigate anything. Really. Honest to jolly rogers.
If I can remember who mod-cat-in-a-hat is, or was, I might remember what I posted a few days ago. Whatever effect that might have on remembering something 40+ years ago, hard to say. But, it's kind of fun thinking about it. All.
Socks, you're not the one demanding I believe your story, so I do not demand answers that you are unwilling to provide. It's that simple. I have been chastised for not believing the story. In order to believe the story, I think I'm entitled to question its details. You're the only one with those details, so I am compelled to direct all questions to you.
If you do not wish to participate in that conversation, I have ZERO problem with that. But it needs to be understood that I am not merely dismissing your account or playing a doubting Thomas "I don't believe it because I don't wanna" kind of game. If I do not ask the questions, I do not show a willingness to find the answers. I AM willing. Quite willing.
Oops. Busted. Was just trying to cool things down. I ran it past the other mods and gave them veto power. I was trying to cool down and let the other mods review things. I am not above the rules. If i cross the line, i expect to be held accountable. But that's why i cannot reprimand anyone on that thread.
You are crossing the line on that other thread with the namecalling. I am responding and am not lilly white in that category. There is no reprimand that could be handed out on that thread that would not include your behavior as either the #1 or #2 offender.
my apologies. Just trying to cool things down.
It is true that there were no complaints, though, and I deliberately waited for chockfull to post again before the lockdown. It was never going to last more than a couple of hours.
Then cool yourself down just like everyone else has to do that participates. Walk away. The fact that you are "trying to cool things down" while also controlling not allowing others to post on the thread is an abuse of the mod power.
If the thread crosses the line on rules then it should be shut down by an uninvolved mod. You have a conflict of interest moderating that thread in any fashion.
I think participants on the thread can vouch for me that I never edited or chastised anyone while wearing the modhat.
As your opposing viewpoint I will vouch for you that you never edited or chastised anyone with your mod powers. And shutting down the thread and re-opening it, while violating a conflict of interest, in my opinion isn't an abuse that is of the magnitude where I would request your mod status be revoked.
But make no mistake, if I did see those other actions - editing or chastising while arguing, I would call for your mod status to be revoked.
I don't need proof, for me. I am the proof, of my own life. No one else would believe it anyway. I've never posted the really strange stuff here, in all these years. If that's difficult to swallow you'd get a reall kick out of the good stuff. :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Socks, really I feel the same way as you. My life itself is the proof to me. And my journey with the Father is pretty unbelievable too. However, I'm not as smart as you. I took the bait of someone calling me a liar and faker, and have been arguing with them.
So here's a story that was witnessed by nobody and is hard to believe, but happened once.
I was at the Adv. Class, and walking around in the dark in my room. We had bunk beds. I ran smack dab into the corner of the bunk bed at a walking pace, with the corner going into my eye socket. My hands went up to my eyes, and I felt the whole eye swelling up. I thought for sure I'd have a really nice shiner through the rest of the class. I prayed immediately, and thanked God in Jesus Christ name for helping my eye. I immediately felt the exact opposite of it swelling up. It shrunk up at about the same pace it swelled up. In about 20 seconds, I removed my hands and started blinking. After about 2 minutes, I went in the bathroom to assess the remaining damage. There was no remaining damage. There was no mark at all on my eye.
Now this little event is such a stupid little meaningless thing in a way. The healing happened there although it didn't happen in other circumstances that I would have thought to be much more opportune moments.
I don't have a story like you do regarding SIT and others understanding. I never experienced that.
What I do know, however, is the impact of the power of God working. I remember that stupid little healing incident decades later, in exact detail. Why? It was the power of God - it made that much of an impression.
Anyway, that's my accommodating your request for outlandish stories.
You are crossing the line on that other thread with the namecalling. I am responding and am not lilly white in that category. There is no reprimand that could be handed out on that thread that would not include your behavior as either the #1 or #2 offender.
I agree. I stand by what I did last night. I do not stand by my decision to do it myself instead of waiting for someone else.
Then cool yourself down just like everyone else has to do that participates. Walk away. The fact that you are "trying to cool things down" while also controlling not allowing others to post on the thread is an abuse of the mod power.
If the thread crosses the line on rules then it should be shut down by an uninvolved mod. You have a conflict of interest moderating that thread in any fashion.
I agree.
As your opposing viewpoint I will vouch for you that you never edited or chastised anyone with your mod powers. And shutting down the thread and re-opening it, while violating a conflict of interest, in my opinion isn't an abuse that is of the magnitude where I would request your mod status be revoked.
But make no mistake, if I did see those other actions - editing or chastising while arguing, I would call for your mod status to be revoked.
Sentence one: thank you. Sentence two: thank you, but I'm not sure I agree. I would not argue with mod status being revoked for that infraction. Up to the rest of the mods. Sentence three: I have reported posts when I felt it necessary, just as any other participant would. And I have left it to other mods to take appropriate action. But my threshold for revocation of mod status is lower than yours. So yes, you would be completely justified in calling for such a thing and grounds a lot less severe than what you describe, in my opinion.
So here's a story that was witnessed by nobody and is hard to believe, but happened once.
I was at the Adv. Class, and walking around in the dark in my room. We had bunk beds. I ran smack dab into the corner of the bunk bed at a walking pace, with the corner going into my eye socket. My hands went up to my eyes, and I felt the whole eye swelling up. I thought for sure I'd have a really nice shiner through the rest of the class. I prayed immediately, and thanked God in Jesus Christ name for helping my eye. I immediately felt the exact opposite of it swelling up. It shrunk up at about the same pace it swelled up. In about 20 seconds, I removed my hands and started blinking. After about 2 minutes, I went in the bathroom to assess the remaining damage. There was no remaining damage. There was no mark at all on my eye.
Now this little event is such a stupid little meaningless thing in a way. The healing happened there although it didn't happen in other circumstances that I would have thought to be much more opportune moments.
Then I'm happy for you, subject to that being a true story.
I have one I experienced involving rapid healing that I'm quite thankful
for experiencing. However, neither story or anecdote has anything to do
with the current subject.
I don't have a story like you do regarding SIT and others understanding. I never experienced that.
Then our stories represent veering off the main discussion.
No law against that, or against a thread completely changing in focus.
However, it should never be mistaken for staying on-topic.
Whether or not anyone ever produced an actual language during "modern SIT"
is completely a different topic from "has anyone ever received a miraculous
healing".
However, it seems to me you keep lumping them together and saying that one
has to believe BOTH or reject BOTH, which is patently an error.
What I do know, however, is the impact of the power of God working. I remember that stupid little healing incident decades later, in exact detail. Why? It was the power of God - it made that much of an impression.
Wonderful.
Which doesn't mean it has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not anyone
speaking with "modern SIT" has ever produced an actual language.
Anyway, that's my accommodating your request for outlandish stories.
Nobody requested "outlandish stories."
(If they did, I missed it-please quote and link.)
However,
if you're calling claims of people speaking in an actual, understood
language when claiming to SIT nowadays
"outlandish stories",
I'm coming to think you have something there.
Hey, I didn't go that far, but it seems you did.
Me, I think "outlandish" overstates things.
==================
In other news, can we just have this discussion on the other thread?
So yes, you would be completely justified in calling for such a thing and grounds a lot less severe than what you describe, in my opinion.
I do not feel your mod powers should be revoked. You have not abused those powers in general in my overall opinion. You explained the actions you took in a timely fashion, and corrected any action quickly that stemmed from a conflict of interest.
This is completely just my opinion, and paw and other mods are completely free to ignore my opinion, of course.
Raf you were over the line with accusations of a personal nature in the SIT thread. As you have publicly acknowledged you should have walked away a bit and cooled down. Mods are granted no special permissions when it comes to the rules. You didn't walk away, oh well. Since the original thread has been a long and ongoing discussion and also since it looks to me that the parties who could have been most offended by what you did apparently are willing to move on, Let's drop it. I will increase your Warn Status to make note of this offense.
I can confirm that ModCat5 did ask for assistance in how to cool things down, Since we do not monitor this place 24/7 his request went unread and he took what action he felt was warranted, partially at least to cool himself down. Moderators should NEVER use their abilities on threads where they are a primary participant. I looked through the moderator logs and do not find where he edited any posts of anybody else.
That said, please (everyone) abide by the rules. If you are getting heated, wait awhile and reread your post before submitting it.
Incidentally, I became a mod in 2006, LONG after GS started and, if I'm not mistaken, some time after the Mike wars. My specific purpose was making sure the site didn't run afoul of copyright and plagiarism laws and rules. Not a lawyer, but tried to develop a site policy that allows us to quote sources without going overboard and pasting entire articles.
I did try moderating a few politics threads at one point, but really struggled between participating and observing, so I ended up withdrawing from both: I stopped posting in politics, stopped moderating there, and haven't looked back.
I do not recall the last time I moderated anything before the last couple of months. There was a request for assistance with a few lengthy quotes, and I stepped in and moderated those in rather clear accordance with the fair use policy (still pinned to the top of the Open Forum) even though I blew my stack against the same poster as Raf. I did that with the full knowledge of other mods. Any one of us could have done it, but it was a specific infraction on unrelated threads that had nothing to do with our argument and was as clear a violation of a published policy as anyone could imagine. It was modcat5's turf.
This is the only time I've "abused" mod authority, and I have repeatedly said I think most people would agree with the decision to lock down the thread temporarily -- if another mod had done it. The conflict of interest was glaring and acting on my own was a colossal blunder. I continue to think if you separate the action from the actor, you can't really argue with the lockdown. In fact, a fair case can be made that it was long overdue.
My thanks to all, especially Chockfull, for understanding and putting it in perspective. And to the other mods: it won't happen again.
Recommended Posts
Ham
I was wondering.. I mean, 71 pages?
how long before someone declared some kind of impasse..
Raf.. how is it you can start a topic, and get 71 pages of responses.. I start one, and get less than a dozen responses, and generally less than three pages? I'm jealous..
well, no, not jealous.
Something HAD to get you on the trail here..
I had close to something like that happen in a political science class..
once, long ago..
before the u.s. citizens really had a REASON to worry about trade with China..
"well. we can't afford the blue ray thingy.. the cheap computer, etc.. except at wal*mart.."
that was their response.. forget unbridled pollution of a foreign land.. decimation of competition on a global scale..
my answer- don't BUY the damned thing.
you really don't have a logical or legitimate *need* to view old stinking movies in super high definition..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OperaBuff
Is Raf still modcat5?
http://www.greasespo...modcat5__st__20
If so, GSC has become some sort of weird psychological torturing device.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Wow.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
*elevator music playing*
*door closing, in five seconds.*
"ah, pluck the duck.."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
LOL
Oops. Busted. Was just trying to cool things down. I ran it past the other mods and gave them veto power. I was trying to cool down and let the other mods review things. I am not above the rules. If i cross the line, i expect to be held accountable. But that's why i cannot reprimand anyone on that thread.
my apologies. Just trying to cool things down.
It is true that there were no complaints, though, and I deliberately waited for chockfull to post again before the lockdown. It was never going to last more than a couple of hours.
The thread is reopened and the modcat5 post has been deleted.
I think participants on the thread can vouch for me that I never edited or chastised anyone while wearing the modhat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Raf, this is worker (ahem, poster) speaking..
why does the porridge bird lay his eggs in the air?
hmm. At least we can close B close schmoe on moderator Dan.
sowy..
at least when I go "tilt" I can amuse myself. Anyone else?
Edited by HamLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Your video will begin in 17 seconds.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Secret Squirrel
Enquiring Squirrels are waiting for the release of the Video on DVD, forget the blue ray thingy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Socks, I answered you on the SIT thread. I do not know what the consequences of my action will be.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
sheesh.. don't worry..
at least you didn't (potentially) violate FERPA or something..
that's professional suicide, in the circles I'm involved in..
but.. maybe the consequences would be to answer the question submitted to the President.
['][p
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
I accept all guilt and the freedom that comes with that, Raf.
We've never met but I feel like I know you and I enjoy your thoughts and writing.
You're no slouch so you had to know, or might have suspected that if I was using my noodle I would never say "Chinese" without understanding what that might imply, in English anyway. But I wasn't trying to instigate anything. Really. Honest to jolly rogers.
If I can remember who mod-cat-in-a-hat is, or was, I might remember what I posted a few days ago. Whatever effect that might have on remembering something 40+ years ago, hard to say. But, it's kind of fun thinking about it. All.
All in fun though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
What guilt?
Socks, you're not the one demanding I believe your story, so I do not demand answers that you are unwilling to provide. It's that simple. I have been chastised for not believing the story. In order to believe the story, I think I'm entitled to question its details. You're the only one with those details, so I am compelled to direct all questions to you.
If you do not wish to participate in that conversation, I have ZERO problem with that. But it needs to be understood that I am not merely dismissing your account or playing a doubting Thomas "I don't believe it because I don't wanna" kind of game. If I do not ask the questions, I do not show a willingness to find the answers. I AM willing. Quite willing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
You are crossing the line on that other thread with the namecalling. I am responding and am not lilly white in that category. There is no reprimand that could be handed out on that thread that would not include your behavior as either the #1 or #2 offender.
Then cool yourself down just like everyone else has to do that participates. Walk away. The fact that you are "trying to cool things down" while also controlling not allowing others to post on the thread is an abuse of the mod power.
If the thread crosses the line on rules then it should be shut down by an uninvolved mod. You have a conflict of interest moderating that thread in any fashion.
As your opposing viewpoint I will vouch for you that you never edited or chastised anyone with your mod powers. And shutting down the thread and re-opening it, while violating a conflict of interest, in my opinion isn't an abuse that is of the magnitude where I would request your mod status be revoked.
But make no mistake, if I did see those other actions - editing or chastising while arguing, I would call for your mod status to be revoked.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Socks, really I feel the same way as you. My life itself is the proof to me. And my journey with the Father is pretty unbelievable too. However, I'm not as smart as you. I took the bait of someone calling me a liar and faker, and have been arguing with them.
So here's a story that was witnessed by nobody and is hard to believe, but happened once.
I was at the Adv. Class, and walking around in the dark in my room. We had bunk beds. I ran smack dab into the corner of the bunk bed at a walking pace, with the corner going into my eye socket. My hands went up to my eyes, and I felt the whole eye swelling up. I thought for sure I'd have a really nice shiner through the rest of the class. I prayed immediately, and thanked God in Jesus Christ name for helping my eye. I immediately felt the exact opposite of it swelling up. It shrunk up at about the same pace it swelled up. In about 20 seconds, I removed my hands and started blinking. After about 2 minutes, I went in the bathroom to assess the remaining damage. There was no remaining damage. There was no mark at all on my eye.
Now this little event is such a stupid little meaningless thing in a way. The healing happened there although it didn't happen in other circumstances that I would have thought to be much more opportune moments.
I don't have a story like you do regarding SIT and others understanding. I never experienced that.
What I do know, however, is the impact of the power of God working. I remember that stupid little healing incident decades later, in exact detail. Why? It was the power of God - it made that much of an impression.
Anyway, that's my accommodating your request for outlandish stories.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
I agree. I stand by what I did last night. I do not stand by my decision to do it myself instead of waiting for someone else.
I agree.
Sentence one: thank you. Sentence two: thank you, but I'm not sure I agree. I would not argue with mod status being revoked for that infraction. Up to the rest of the mods. Sentence three: I have reported posts when I felt it necessary, just as any other participant would. And I have left it to other mods to take appropriate action. But my threshold for revocation of mod status is lower than yours. So yes, you would be completely justified in calling for such a thing and grounds a lot less severe than what you describe, in my opinion.
Edited by RafLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Then I'm happy for you, subject to that being a true story.
I have one I experienced involving rapid healing that I'm quite thankful
for experiencing. However, neither story or anecdote has anything to do
with the current subject.
Then our stories represent veering off the main discussion.
No law against that, or against a thread completely changing in focus.
However, it should never be mistaken for staying on-topic.
Whether or not anyone ever produced an actual language during "modern SIT"
is completely a different topic from "has anyone ever received a miraculous
healing".
However, it seems to me you keep lumping them together and saying that one
has to believe BOTH or reject BOTH, which is patently an error.
Wonderful.
Which doesn't mean it has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not anyone
speaking with "modern SIT" has ever produced an actual language.
Nobody requested "outlandish stories."
(If they did, I missed it-please quote and link.)
However,
if you're calling claims of people speaking in an actual, understood
language when claiming to SIT nowadays
"outlandish stories",
I'm coming to think you have something there.
Hey, I didn't go that far, but it seems you did.
Me, I think "outlandish" overstates things.
==================
In other news, can we just have this discussion on the other thread?
It's open and everything.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Socks asked for outlandish stories.
Read the flipping opening post. ;)
Edited by RafLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
*reviews the opening post*
*studies the end of the post*
So he did.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I do not feel your mod powers should be revoked. You have not abused those powers in general in my overall opinion. You explained the actions you took in a timely fashion, and corrected any action quickly that stemmed from a conflict of interest.
This is completely just my opinion, and paw and other mods are completely free to ignore my opinion, of course.
I call things how I see them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Considering all else, very kind of you to say.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
This thread was quickly derailed and no longer seems to be reflecting what Socks intended.
Socks, how would you like to handle it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Not sure, perhaps we could consider options.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Modgellan
alright, I looked over things.
Raf you were over the line with accusations of a personal nature in the SIT thread. As you have publicly acknowledged you should have walked away a bit and cooled down. Mods are granted no special permissions when it comes to the rules. You didn't walk away, oh well. Since the original thread has been a long and ongoing discussion and also since it looks to me that the parties who could have been most offended by what you did apparently are willing to move on, Let's drop it. I will increase your Warn Status to make note of this offense.
I can confirm that ModCat5 did ask for assistance in how to cool things down, Since we do not monitor this place 24/7 his request went unread and he took what action he felt was warranted, partially at least to cool himself down. Moderators should NEVER use their abilities on threads where they are a primary participant. I looked through the moderator logs and do not find where he edited any posts of anybody else.
That said, please (everyone) abide by the rules. If you are getting heated, wait awhile and reread your post before submitting it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Oh no! Not my Warn Status!
Will that go on my permanent record?
I'll never get into Morgan Prep now.
My mom's gonna be soooo mad.
***
Editing instead of a new post:
Incidentally, I became a mod in 2006, LONG after GS started and, if I'm not mistaken, some time after the Mike wars. My specific purpose was making sure the site didn't run afoul of copyright and plagiarism laws and rules. Not a lawyer, but tried to develop a site policy that allows us to quote sources without going overboard and pasting entire articles.
I did try moderating a few politics threads at one point, but really struggled between participating and observing, so I ended up withdrawing from both: I stopped posting in politics, stopped moderating there, and haven't looked back.
I do not recall the last time I moderated anything before the last couple of months. There was a request for assistance with a few lengthy quotes, and I stepped in and moderated those in rather clear accordance with the fair use policy (still pinned to the top of the Open Forum) even though I blew my stack against the same poster as Raf. I did that with the full knowledge of other mods. Any one of us could have done it, but it was a specific infraction on unrelated threads that had nothing to do with our argument and was as clear a violation of a published policy as anyone could imagine. It was modcat5's turf.
This is the only time I've "abused" mod authority, and I have repeatedly said I think most people would agree with the decision to lock down the thread temporarily -- if another mod had done it. The conflict of interest was glaring and acting on my own was a colossal blunder. I continue to think if you separate the action from the actor, you can't really argue with the lockdown. In fact, a fair case can be made that it was long overdue.
My thanks to all, especially Chockfull, for understanding and putting it in perspective. And to the other mods: it won't happen again.
Edited by RafLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.