The grandiosity I perceive in Mike's writing focuses on language and then the self. This had something or nothing to do with free will but he ran out of time.
I can give you more context.
In the setup, I said that the forum I wrote that for was devoted to free will discussions. The biology of the human decision process comes up often.
Someone posted an article about AA that was critical of it's use of the word "disease" when working with addiction, which seem to be a loss of free will or control.
I told them it was worse that that and that "allergy" was also used. But these words did NOT indicate a naivete in the mechanics of recovery AA sponsored. The words objected too were simply archaic and rural.
The part on the "self" was a secular way of discussing delicate issues with my free-will academic friends. The delicate subject was how AA handled words like possession and oppression. That's devil spirits for those with the ability to look at things spiritually. The sharp AA members understand that if they chose a close enough "higher power."
But the academics choke on the those words and ideas, just like some here do. So I thought I'd transliterate for them with that wording on fractured and partial "selves," some of which are not quite human, but devils. The AA organization specializes in helping people who have hit rock bottom. My egghead audience was very familiar with the lack of definition and stability of what is commonly meant by "self."
Twinky had asked about the spiritual aspects of AA. I wanted to assure her and all others interested that their secular and archaic vocabulary should be totally forgiven, because the ideas in their texts are solid.
They get right in the faces of devils once in a while and they are able to do it in a secular enough way that works often for atheists and agnostics.
"I was very surprised, suspicious, freaked out .. to find that this is the subject of the current term's teachings at one of the churches that I attend. But this sermon series is about the 12 steps on our road to spiritual recovery and our increasing dependence on God ... weaning ourselves off addiction to ego, self-centredness, and material obsessions (whatever they may be, including use of oil - fuel, plastics, etc).
Rohr, a Franciscan friar, posits that we are all addicted. But for all of us, our addiction is to sin, and we love to sin, it's an illness in us. He posits using the Twelve Steps to overcome our addiction to sin and self.
Here is one version of the Christian 12 steps:
The Christian 12 Step program and Biblical Principles, as used in Christian Rehab Centers for faith based 12 Step recovery programs around the world.
STEP ONE is about recognizing our brokenness
We admitted we were powerless over the effects of our separation from God – that our lives had become unmanageable
I know nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out
(ROMANS 7:18)
STEP TWO is about the birth of faith in us
Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
(PHILLIPIANS 2:13)
STEP THREE involves a decision to let God be in charge of our lives
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – which is your spiritual worship.
(ROMANS 12:1)
STEP FOUR involves self-examination
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord.
(LAMANTATIONS 3:40)
STEP FIVE is the discipline of confession
Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed
(JAMES 5:16)
STEP SIX is an inner transformation sometimes called repentance
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up
(JAMES 4:10)
STEP SEVEN involves the transformation or purification of our character
Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
(1JOHN 1:9)
STEP EIGHT involves examining our relationships and preparing ourselves to make amends
Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
(LUKE 6:31)
STEP NINE is the discipline of making amends
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
(MATTHEW 5:23-24)
STEP TEN is about maintaining progress in recovery
Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall.
(1 CORINTHIANS 10:12)
STEP ELEVEN involves the spiritual disciplines of prayer and meditation
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly.
(COLOSSIANS 3:16)
STEP TWELVE is about ministry
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, as you also may be tempted.
(GALATIANS 6:1)
So, while it may be interesting to discuss the AA 12 Steps programme, the real thing we need to be discussing is the 12 steps we need to take in our own spiritual recovery: our addiction to self, ego, self-centredness, and material obsessions and possessions (things), or even people.
For some here, it may mean considering our addiction to heresies, to false teachings, whether from TWI, or Roman Catholicism, or any other religious teaching.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and the God and creator of the universe.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and Jesus Christ, in all his sacrifice and glory.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and living our lives in a spiritual manner, bearing witness to God in our words and our actions.
As well as getting rid of ego and self-centredness, we need to examine ourselves and get rid of "nameable" things: hurt, jealousy, lack of forgiveness, thoughts of revenge, living in the past. We need to stop vaunting our own intellectual prowess (vaunting our knowledge above God). We need to stop being greedy, hoarding, and chasing money, etc (all of which show lack of dependence on God's provision).
All of these, and many other things, can become "gods" to us, obsessions that get in the way of a true, living, spiritual reality.
Instead, we need to consider who God says he is, and to try to deepen our own understanding of Him. This will involve our intellectual abilities - but always bring those back to understanding who and what God is, and what God requires of us. It involves our physical abilities - using what we have to do, to take actions in line with what God wants. That is what "being meek to the Word" means.
The 12 steps, whether Rohr's Christian version, or AA's, or Drug Awareness, or any other entity's version, are only tools to help us on our spiritual journey. Too much debate on them, and the exact meaning of the words expressing the steps, veers off into an intellectual curiosity that distracts from actually paying attention and doing what those steps express, which is getting past our selves and into the freedom of our dependence on God.
There is a page in the Advanced Class syllabus that lists specific devil spirits that are responsible for various conditions. The spirit of Leviathan is listed as the spirit responsible for alcoholism.
So, this is where it gets really messy.
Wierwille was the epitome of several of the spirits listed on that page.
It presents a grave dilemma.
1. Were we following a man who was possessed?
2. Why didn't anyone get revelation of this via Discerning of Spirits?
3. Was he simply wrong about this subject ?
If he was wrong about this, he could have been wrong about anything and everything, hence the dilemma.
Please note: I attacked the methodology, not the man.
I fail to see the symbolism of using Leviathan, a sea serpent, in connection with alcoholism. Leviathan alludes to water and chaos, such as in multiple stories in Genesis.
Spirit of Dionysus might make more sense. I think Noah got hammered one night. Maybe he was cabrewing.
Maybe someone could enlighten us on the reasoning.
"I was very surprised, suspicious, freaked out .. to find that this is the subject of the current term's teachings at one of the churches that I attend. But this sermon series is about the 12 steps on our road to spiritual recovery and our increasing dependence on God ... weaning ourselves off addiction to ego, self-centredness, and material obsessions (whatever they may be, including use of oil - fuel, plastics, etc).
Rohr, a Franciscan friar, posits that we are all addicted. But for all of us, our addiction is to sin, and we love to sin, it's an illness in us. He posits using the Twelve Steps to overcome our addiction to sin and self.
Here is one version of the Christian 12 steps:
The Christian 12 Step program and Biblical Principles, as used in Christian Rehab Centers for faith based 12 Step recovery programs around the world.
STEP ONE is about recognizing our brokenness
We admitted we were powerless over the effects of our separation from God – that our lives had become unmanageable
I know nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out
(ROMANS 7:18)
STEP TWO is about the birth of faith in us
Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
(PHILLIPIANS 2:13)
STEP THREE involves a decision to let God be in charge of our lives
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – which is your spiritual worship.
(ROMANS 12:1)
STEP FOUR involves self-examination
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord.
(LAMANTATIONS 3:40)
STEP FIVE is the discipline of confession
Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed
(JAMES 5:16)
STEP SIX is an inner transformation sometimes called repentance
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up
(JAMES 4:10)
STEP SEVEN involves the transformation or purification of our character
Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
(1JOHN 1:9)
STEP EIGHT involves examining our relationships and preparing ourselves to make amends
Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
(LUKE 6:31)
STEP NINE is the discipline of making amends
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
(MATTHEW 5:23-24)
STEP TEN is about maintaining progress in recovery
Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall.
(1 CORINTHIANS 10:12)
STEP ELEVEN involves the spiritual disciplines of prayer and meditation
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly.
(COLOSSIANS 3:16)
STEP TWELVE is about ministry
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, as you also may be tempted.
(GALATIANS 6:1)
So, while it may be interesting to discuss the AA 12 Steps programme, the real thing we need to be discussing is the 12 steps we need to take in our own spiritual recovery: our addiction to self, ego, self-centredness, and material obsessions and possessions (things), or even people.
For some here, it may mean considering our addiction to heresies, to false teachings, whether from TWI, or Roman Catholicism, or any other religious teaching.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and the God and creator of the universe.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and Jesus Christ, in all his sacrifice and glory.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and living our lives in a spiritual manner, bearing witness to God in our words and our actions.
As well as getting rid of ego and self-centredness, we need to examine ourselves and get rid of "nameable" things: hurt, jealousy, lack of forgiveness, thoughts of revenge, living in the past. We need to stop vaunting our own intellectual prowess (vaunting our knowledge above God). We need to stop being greedy, hoarding, and chasing money, etc (all of which show lack of dependence on God's provision).
All of these, and many other things, can become "gods" to us, obsessions that get in the way of a true, living, spiritual reality.
Instead, we need to consider who God says he is, and to try to deepen our own understanding of Him. This will involve our intellectual abilities - but always bring those back to understanding who and what God is, and what God requires of us. It involves our physical abilities - using what we have to do, to take actions in line with what God wants. That is what "being meek to the Word" means.
The 12 steps, whether Rohr's Christian version, or AA's, or Drug Awareness, or any other entity's version, are only tools to help us on our spiritual journey. Too much debate on them, and the exact meaning of the words expressing the steps, veers off into an intellectual curiosity that distracts from actually paying attention and doing what those steps express, which is getting past our selves and into the freedom of our dependence on God.
Great post Twinky and a great follow up to your thread-starter-post! I'm saving this stuff in a file.
Yes, This, as well as the revelation manifestation definitions, is a cut and paste from another source that I don't recall at the moment. It's been documented here for anyone so inclined to investigate.
Ethanol initially burns blue. Due to incomplete combustion the color changes to yellow, have more energy transitions now available, more wavelengths.
Methanol burns blue better. But drinking that will cause you blindness, due to the formation of formic acid, which should be obvious. Same acid as in ant bites - an Ant-acid.
Many animals and insects get drunk. Humans due seem to hold their liquor better than the rest, due to a 10 million year old gene that allows us to break it down better. Other genes seem to be involved that discourage the urge to stop drinking, maybe like overeating. Some have hypothesized that being able to consume alcohol for their calories gave humans an evolutionary advantage.
Admitting you are worthless and need a higher power and apologize for whatever and grab your friends along. The twelve step program looks like something enabling people to open themselves up to another predator.
Twinky phenomenal post highlighting the potential spiritual power in the 12 steps and the alignment to scripture and all of the delivering content in avoiding addiction.
Of course these programs being man made are flawed exploited and twisted like any other truth based lists. People sure love lists that is for sure lol. Numerology and addiction recovery. Who knew the correlation?
In the setup, I said that the forum I wrote that for was devoted to free will discussions. The biology of the human decision process comes up often.
Someone posted an article about AA that was critical of it's use of the word "disease" when working with addiction, which seem to be a loss of free will or control.
I told them it was worse that that and that "allergy" was also used. But these words did NOT indicate a naivete in the mechanics of recovery AA sponsored. The words objected too were simply archaic and rural.
The part on the "self" was a secular way of discussing delicate issues with my free-will academic friends. The delicate subject was how AA handled words like possession and oppression. That's devil spirits for those with the ability to look at things spiritually. The sharp AA members understand that if they chose a close enough "higher power."
But the academics choke on the those words and ideas, just like some here do. So I thought I'd transliterate for them with that wording on fractured and partial "selves," some of which are not quite human, but devils. The AA organization specializes in helping people who have hit rock bottom. My egghead audience was very familiar with the lack of definition and stability of what is commonly meant by "self."
Twinky had asked about the spiritual aspects of AA. I wanted to assure her and all others interested that their secular and archaic vocabulary should be totally forgiven, because the ideas in their texts are solid.
They get right in the faces of devils once in a while and they are able to do it in a secular enough way that works often for atheists and agnostics.
As per the Advanced Class, it supposedly causes an insatiable thirst in those it possesses.
I'm hoping your comment was tongue-in-cheek. I'm hoping we're well past taking the PFLAP advanced class as anything at all approaching a legitimate authority on truth.
I'm hoping your comment was tongue-in-cheek. I'm hoping we're well past taking the PFLAP advanced class as anything at all approaching a legitimate authority on truth.
Don't know if this person is trying to quote Thomas Hobbes at some point. "perversion of justice"
Read it while you can. The adversary is trying hard to take down this 30 year old website.
I read the link. I'm not sure I see the connection between Hobbes and what he's trying to say unless he's trying to convey a similarity in the centralization of absolute power.
"Read it while you can. The adversary is trying hard to take down this 30 year old website."
No fears. I've committed the entirety of it to floppy.
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chockfull
In many ways AA has done a work that TWI was and is too lazy to ever do anything close to. They have taken a specific category of people with special needs and dedicated resources to helping them. T
damurf
I had a pretty bad drinking problem when I was with TWI, I tried several things to get a handle on it but to no avail. I did have a Limb coordinator even suggest that I go to AA. After leaving TWI I s
OldSkool
My uncle has been in AA for around 30 years. It saved his life. He has lived a very productive life since he sobered up and has helped many people be sponsoring them in AA. I have nothing but praise f
waysider
You tell me. Did he?
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waysider
Can't argue with that.
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Bolshevik
Take some time to drink on it?
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Mike
I can give you more context.
In the setup, I said that the forum I wrote that for was devoted to free will discussions. The biology of the human decision process comes up often.
Someone posted an article about AA that was critical of it's use of the word "disease" when working with addiction, which seem to be a loss of free will or control.
I told them it was worse that that and that "allergy" was also used. But these words did NOT indicate a naivete in the mechanics of recovery AA sponsored. The words objected too were simply archaic and rural.
The part on the "self" was a secular way of discussing delicate issues with my free-will academic friends. The delicate subject was how AA handled words like possession and oppression. That's devil spirits for those with the ability to look at things spiritually. The sharp AA members understand that if they chose a close enough "higher power."
But the academics choke on the those words and ideas, just like some here do. So I thought I'd transliterate for them with that wording on fractured and partial "selves," some of which are not quite human, but devils. The AA organization specializes in helping people who have hit rock bottom. My egghead audience was very familiar with the lack of definition and stability of what is commonly meant by "self."
Twinky had asked about the spiritual aspects of AA. I wanted to assure her and all others interested that their secular and archaic vocabulary should be totally forgiven, because the ideas in their texts are solid.
They get right in the faces of devils once in a while and they are able to do it in a secular enough way that works often for atheists and agnostics.
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Twinky
Actually, this is what I asked about:
"I was very surprised, suspicious, freaked out .. to find that this is the subject of the current term's teachings at one of the churches that I attend. But this sermon series is about the 12 steps on our road to spiritual recovery and our increasing dependence on God ... weaning ourselves off addiction to ego, self-centredness, and material obsessions (whatever they may be, including use of oil - fuel, plastics, etc).
"The sermon series is based on a book called Breathing Underwater by Richard Rohr"
Rohr, a Franciscan friar, posits that we are all addicted. But for all of us, our addiction is to sin, and we love to sin, it's an illness in us. He posits using the Twelve Steps to overcome our addiction to sin and self.
Here is one version of the Christian 12 steps:
The Christian 12 Step program and Biblical Principles, as used in Christian Rehab Centers for faith based 12 Step recovery programs around the world.
STEP ONE is about recognizing our brokenness
We admitted we were powerless over the effects of our separation from God – that our lives had become unmanageable
I know nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out
(ROMANS 7:18)
STEP TWO is about the birth of faith in us
Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
(PHILLIPIANS 2:13)
STEP THREE involves a decision to let God be in charge of our lives
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – which is your spiritual worship.
(ROMANS 12:1)
STEP FOUR involves self-examination
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord.
(LAMANTATIONS 3:40)
STEP FIVE is the discipline of confession
Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed
(JAMES 5:16)
STEP SIX is an inner transformation sometimes called repentance
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up
(JAMES 4:10)
STEP SEVEN involves the transformation or purification of our character
Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
(1JOHN 1:9)
STEP EIGHT involves examining our relationships and preparing ourselves to make amends
Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
(LUKE 6:31)
STEP NINE is the discipline of making amends
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
(MATTHEW 5:23-24)
STEP TEN is about maintaining progress in recovery
Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall.
(1 CORINTHIANS 10:12)
STEP ELEVEN involves the spiritual disciplines of prayer and meditation
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly.
(COLOSSIANS 3:16)
STEP TWELVE is about ministry
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, as you also may be tempted.
(GALATIANS 6:1)
So, while it may be interesting to discuss the AA 12 Steps programme, the real thing we need to be discussing is the 12 steps we need to take in our own spiritual recovery: our addiction to self, ego, self-centredness, and material obsessions and possessions (things), or even people.
For some here, it may mean considering our addiction to heresies, to false teachings, whether from TWI, or Roman Catholicism, or any other religious teaching.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and the God and creator of the universe.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and Jesus Christ, in all his sacrifice and glory.
--We specifically need to consider our own addiction to anything or anyone that gets between us and living our lives in a spiritual manner, bearing witness to God in our words and our actions.
As well as getting rid of ego and self-centredness, we need to examine ourselves and get rid of "nameable" things: hurt, jealousy, lack of forgiveness, thoughts of revenge, living in the past. We need to stop vaunting our own intellectual prowess (vaunting our knowledge above God). We need to stop being greedy, hoarding, and chasing money, etc (all of which show lack of dependence on God's provision).
All of these, and many other things, can become "gods" to us, obsessions that get in the way of a true, living, spiritual reality.
Instead, we need to consider who God says he is, and to try to deepen our own understanding of Him. This will involve our intellectual abilities - but always bring those back to understanding who and what God is, and what God requires of us. It involves our physical abilities - using what we have to do, to take actions in line with what God wants. That is what "being meek to the Word" means.
The 12 steps, whether Rohr's Christian version, or AA's, or Drug Awareness, or any other entity's version, are only tools to help us on our spiritual journey. Too much debate on them, and the exact meaning of the words expressing the steps, veers off into an intellectual curiosity that distracts from actually paying attention and doing what those steps express, which is getting past our selves and into the freedom of our dependence on God.
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Bolshevik
So is there a specific devil spirit for alcohol?
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waysider
There is a page in the Advanced Class syllabus that lists specific devil spirits that are responsible for various conditions. The spirit of Leviathan is listed as the spirit responsible for alcoholism.
So, this is where it gets really messy.
Wierwille was the epitome of several of the spirits listed on that page.
It presents a grave dilemma.
1. Were we following a man who was possessed?
2. Why didn't anyone get revelation of this via Discerning of Spirits?
3. Was he simply wrong about this subject ?
If he was wrong about this, he could have been wrong about anything and everything, hence the dilemma.
Please note: I attacked the methodology, not the man.
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Bolshevik
I fail to see the symbolism of using Leviathan, a sea serpent, in connection with alcoholism. Leviathan alludes to water and chaos, such as in multiple stories in Genesis.
Spirit of Dionysus might make more sense. I think Noah got hammered one night. Maybe he was cabrewing.
Maybe someone could enlighten us on the reasoning.
Edited by Bolshevikarchaic use of spelling
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waysider
There's supposed to be reasoning?
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Bolshevik
https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Leviathan-Jezebel-Athaliah/dp/0578530341
Did VPW borrow it from somewhere?
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Bolshevik
https://www.gotquestions.org/leviathan-spirit.html
Nothing about alcohol. Water shows up.
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T-Bone
Great post Twinky and a great follow up to your thread-starter-post! I'm saving this stuff in a file.
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Twinky
Thanks, TBone.
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waysider
Yes, This, as well as the revelation manifestation definitions, is a cut and paste from another source that I don't recall at the moment. It's been documented here for anyone so inclined to investigate.
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Bolshevik
The search function needs a drink.
Ethanol initially burns blue. Due to incomplete combustion the color changes to yellow, have more energy transitions now available, more wavelengths.
Methanol burns blue better. But drinking that will cause you blindness, due to the formation of formic acid, which should be obvious. Same acid as in ant bites - an Ant-acid.
Many animals and insects get drunk. Humans due seem to hold their liquor better than the rest, due to a 10 million year old gene that allows us to break it down better. Other genes seem to be involved that discourage the urge to stop drinking, maybe like overeating. Some have hypothesized that being able to consume alcohol for their calories gave humans an evolutionary advantage.
Admitting you are worthless and need a higher power and apologize for whatever and grab your friends along. The twelve step program looks like something enabling people to open themselves up to another predator.
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chockfull
Twinky phenomenal post highlighting the potential spiritual power in the 12 steps and the alignment to scripture and all of the delivering content in avoiding addiction.
Of course these programs being man made are flawed exploited and twisted like any other truth based lists. People sure love lists that is for sure lol. Numerology and addiction recovery. Who knew the correlation?
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Bolshevik
Spirits - 'cause transliterate
But why Leviathan?
Are you suggesting devil spirits are partial entities?
Edited by Bolshevikrewriting from the original
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waysider
As per the Advanced Class, it supposedly causes an insatiable thirst in those it possesses.
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Bolshevik
I'm assuming if he plagiarized there was at one time a better explanation.
Pinocchio got hammered and swallowed by a whale, the little jack arse. The story generally being about growing up.
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Bolshevik
This guy comes up a few places. Mentions Leviathan and two-drink limit. There's another version with 3 steps on casting out spirits.
http://www.absolutebiblestudy.com/Adversary/THE_SPIRIT_THAT_DWELLS_IN_AN_ALCOHOLIC.htm
Don't know if this person is trying to quote Thomas Hobbes at some point. "perversion of justice"
Read it while you can. The adversary is trying hard to take down this 30 year old website.
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Rocky
I'm hoping your comment was tongue-in-cheek. I'm hoping we're well past taking the PFLAP advanced class as anything at all approaching a legitimate authority on truth.
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waysider
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waysider
I read the link. I'm not sure I see the connection between Hobbes and what he's trying to say unless he's trying to convey a similarity in the centralization of absolute power.
"Read it while you can. The adversary is trying hard to take down this 30 year old website."
No fears. I've committed the entirety of it to floppy.
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Twinky
You guys are waaaay off topic.
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