Forgetting what's behind?

[Pete]

This post is an offshoot of the “Christian Fellowship and Research” thread.

First of all I want to say due respect to everyone who contributed to the previous thread.

I wanted to post this separately as it relates to more than just that particular thread.

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We should definitely want to vet ANY organisation or individual before we get involved with them on a fellowship level.

When Paul says “forgetting those things which are behind”, the word translated “forgetting” in the English comes from a word in the Aramaic which infers “forsaking” rather than forgetting. It could be understood in this case to infer “casting off”, as in casting off a mental burden.

Paul had previously persecuted the church: this was well known to just about everyone. He freely recounted what he HAD done previously as an example to others of how God had freed him from all that stuff. However, it should be patently obvious that he could still remember and recount the events to others, only the events were no longer a “mental burden” to him. He hadn't literally forgotten them at all!

To use the verse as an excuse for hiding men’s continued wrong doings would be obviously wrong. Now there ARE some things that you would keep to yourself, but that would be a matter of personal discretion, not because someone is threatening you or bullying you into covering up for their continued abuse.

Furthermore, the church has every right to know that any serving person meets certain criteria for service. Paul did not keep on persecuting people after he began to serve God. He changed. Likewise, if someone has made a mistake in the past, they have a right for forgiveness and to move on, but ask yourself the question, are they moving on if they continue to propagate the error?

So if errors have been made in the past, we have every right to check that the errors are no longer being practiced, before we associate with that individual or group. We also have a right to warn others if we know that they are contemplating joining themselves to a group or an offshoot that systematically practices error or abuse.

So I would say to anyone, feel free to ask questions and expect answers. And be extremely wary if you don’t get a straight answer to your questions.

[Raf]

Wow.

Possibly the best post ever.

[skyrider]

We should definitely want to vet ANY organisation or individual before we get involved with them on a fellowship level.

When Paul says “forgetting those things which are behind”, the word translated “forgetting” in the English comes from a word in the Aramaic which infers “forsaking” rather than forgetting. It could be understood in this case to infer “casting off”, as in casting off a mental burden.

Paul had previously persecuted the church: this was well known to just about everyone. He freely recounted what he HAD done previously as an example to others of how God had freed him from all that stuff. However, it should be patently obvious that he could still remember and recount the events to others, only the events were no longer a “mental burden” to him. He hadn't literally forgotten them at all!

<snip>

Pete.....thanks for starting this thought-provoking thread.

When it comes to "vetting" an individual or organization, the scriptures are laced with plenty of pearls of wisdom.

Obviously, there are those [especially, youth] who are swayed by emotion, charisma, appearances, glitter, slick presentations

and advertising, peer pressure idolizing, etc.........and thus, the scriptures unequivocally point out the camouflaged and hidden

aspects of DECEPTION, MANIPULATION, EXPLOITATION, etc. that are designed to "fool the very elect."

1) Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and [the leaven] of Herod.

2) Wolves in sheeps' clothing

3) You shall know them by their fruits

4) Tares and wheat....will be known at harvest

5) Those who suppress by winks and hods

6) Not with excellency of speech, BUT DEMONSTRATION OF POWER

7) Etc. Etc.

The manipulation that THE WAY INTERNATIONAL employed was multi-leveled......but one of their sinister ploys was that once a person

took the class and "got involved" was to stay the course. What? Excuse me......but when one recognizes evil deceiving, then he has

EVERY RIGHT TO STOP ALL INVOLVEMENT AND LEAVE.

Why did Jesus expose the Pharisee hypocrisy over and over? Because the people were ensnared in this system of evil and could not see it!

Systems, structures and organizations layered in bureacracy often hide the simplicity of the truth. And, when one peels back all the

obfuscation of these systems, truth emerges.

[OldSkool]

Wow.

Possibly the best post ever.

I couldn't agree more. I learned more about that particular Bible verse than I ever did while in TWI. WOw!! Thanks Pete!

[geisha779]

I couldn't agree more. I learned more about that particular Bible verse than I ever did while in TWI. WOw!! Thanks Pete!

You are right...that IS really good and I too learned something. I don't even feel bad about missing church now! :)

Edited October 7, 2012 by geisha779

[OldSkool]

You are right...that IS really good and I too learned something. I don't even feel bad about missing church now! :)

I have had (and I am sure everyone else too) forgetting those things which are behind lorded over me so many time by TWI, I've lost count. I was told to forget my past, family, friends, home town, profession - basically anything and everything that didn't provide some service to the way international. If they would use it then it was ok to remember all of a sudden.

I had two offshoots (CFF and STFI) lecture me on the importance of forgiveness in relation to TWI. There is an unsettled account between me and them that the Lord will have to settle. I am not bitter against them, in fact I have moved on to a better life than I ever had with them. But after they attacked me, my family, tried to run a rift between me and my wife, counseled me to have my wife abort our unborn son because the ultrasound detected health problems, etc, I would say we are at odds. Not to mention offshoots rely heavily on Wierwille's works. I would say they have a vested interest in people "forgetting" all the evil he did. That way they can continue the gravy train he started, using his stolen works.

Needless to say I have not forgiven TWI because they never asked, nor offered any condolences to make things right. Hell will freeze over first. They are accountable to a lot of people for their evils and one day they will answer.

[excathedra]

many thanks, pete

[waysider]

So, then, why do so many of the off-shoots want to REMEMBER all the "wonderful" things Wierwille stood for? Shouldn't they just leave that stuff behind, too?

[geisha779]

Needless to say I have not forgiven TWI because they never asked, nor offered any condolences to make things right. Hell will freeze over first. They are accountable to a lot of people for their evils and one day they will answer.

I always wonder why it is we have to repent to be forgiven from God, but admonished to "one up" Him in forgiveness when it comes to TWI. Why did Jesus say, if your brother repents forgive Him, yet, some people promote forgiveness without repentance? Repentance is a good thing! My favorite is the one that makes forgiveness for our own benefit. There is biblical concept you don't hear everyday.....Self-serving forgiveness.

I suspect much of it breaks along the lines of what we consider TWI. Is it an anti-christian cult founded by a false teacher who instilled in people a false sense of salvation, or a Christian group that strayed, but still has the "truth"?

Sorry, I really don't mean to take it off topic too much and frankly, those forgiveness threads get on my nerves.

[skyrider]

So, then, why do so many of the off-shoots want to REMEMBER all the "wonderful" things Wierwille stood for? Shouldn't they just leave that stuff behind, too?

And......why is there a corps-only website for EX-corps members?

They want to REMEMBER some cherry-picked things, yet have distanced themselves from the organization altogether......huh?

[Rocky]

And......why is there a corps-only website for EX-corps members?

They want to REMEMBER some cherry-picked things, yet have distanced themselves from the organization altogether......huh?

Are they still doing that ning site?

Btw, back in 1986, one of the first things I figured out was how twi had accountability bass-ackward. In Acts and in Paul's epistles, accountability of the ministers to those they SERVED (not lorded over) is paramount. Yet, twi had us going in reverse on that concept.

[OperaBuff]

Great post, Pete. Instead of following the great truths that you so beautifully outline, TWI leadership opted for a lock-box strategy. All those lock boxes crammed full of toxic and shameful secrets became the time bombs that eventually destroyed the place.