SIT, TIP, Prophecy and Confession

[Ham]

No, the Squirrel gets the last word.. just can't figure out what it is..

what am I saying???? the last word???? I hope not.

[lucygoosey]

I faked it. Every time. I rehearsed ahead of time and by the time I was 11, I had a notebook full of ones I'd made up and would rotate so I didn't deliver the same one twice in any week. (BTW I only managed to read the first 15 or so pages, so if y'all already changed topics 47 times, sorry)

[waysider]

(BTW I only managed to read the first 15 or so pages, so if y'all already changed topics 47 times, sorry)

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Your post is still very much on topic.

:P

[lucygoosey]

Well good, I'd hate to think I raised a horse from the dead ;)

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Your post is still very much on topic.

:P/>

[WordWolf]

If you don't mind, I'm curious-

what were you thinking about it and feeling about it when you were

constructing and rotating them?

(This is even a bit different than we were discussing before, mostly,

since this is different from "free vocalization." Still on-topic, of

oourse.)

[Ham]

Well good, I'd hate to think I raised a horse from the dead ;)/>

And what would be wrong with that?

[Ham]

Unless maybe the Horse wanted to be dead. Tired and all..

Maybe the horse was just catching up with a few Z's between shifts. No really dead, after all..

I'm trying to figure out how this works out with free vocalization.. maybe that is what I am really doing here.

Moderators: I think that makes this and the past three posts on topic.

[Ham]

Well, two and a half. One got absorbed in a previous post.

[PurpleDays]

I never faked it, nor do I fake it today.

[Eagle]

I don't believe anyone intended to fake it. But funny how the interpretation changes when the doctrine about interpretation changes. Simplest explanation: it's extemporaneous expression, not divine inspiration.

First thing I had to do was admit I lied to myself, for years. If you don't know whether you faked it, congratulations! You did!

Of course, Wierwille tried to tell us right there in PFAL that the devil will try to get you to think you're just faking it, so you just ignore him and belieeeeve. (psst. Wierwille lied. Your heart and integrity were trying to tell you that you were faking it. Wierwille got us to ignore that, and when we did, we sold him a little piece of our soul).

Well, I'm not sure how to fake SIT, but the interpretation, it was SUPPOSED to be the first thing that came to our minds following SIT. I am sure it was easily faked by some. There were so many interpretations that began with "Know ye that I love thee (or you)..." and so on. God was interpreting in King James English. Yes, many unintentionally faked it without knowing it based on peer influence or pressure. No doubt. I wonder, though, how many delivered the real article?

[Ham]

even after 97 pages of whatever it is.. I still don't feel like I'm qualified to vote, or to reply here..

[Raf]

I'm surprised this thread got resurrected. I have no interest in fighting it all out again, but I do hope that changing the poll options helped to civilize the conversation.

[excathedra]

i am SO HAPPY to see purpledays and eagle. love you. should i interpret that? :)

--

my 18-year-old has trouble with insomnia. do you think i should get him speaking in tongues? do you think that would help?

[diazbro]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.....

First, if you want to talk to a real expert on "faking it" then maybe you should talk to my ex wife. What a pro.

As for me the "mannies", especially interpretation and prophecy, "worked" to the extent that a person had pre-saturated their thinking in the bible and way teachings. If you have a number of pre-compiled stock expressions, phrases, and ideas floating around in your brain then it is possible to produce, on demand, a reasonably coherent statement that approximates something original. As for me, most of the interpretations and prophecy I heard always sounded like something I had heard previously at Twig. Practice makes perfect and those excellor sessions seemed to reinforce that. (However, one notes that there were never excellor sessions for the advanced class at least to the best of my knowledge).

I recall the PFAL session where Vic was saying his "Lo Shanta Mala Kacita" and during session 12 you would hear some "lo shantas" being uttered around the room which sort of supports the idea that many were appropriating, perhaps unconsciously, the words of Vic. Many here, myself included, encountered the idea of SIT in advance of their experience with TWI. Though I won't claim that the "the tongues" sounded drastically different from those I heard while in TWI. I recall the oft-repeated story that someone heard their native language being spoken during a believer's meeting. Of course the person relating the story was never the party in question. It was always "a friend" or someone's "Wow brother". Not saying it never happened but could never seem to run into anyone who claimed it firsthand.

Now, I did experience something interesting relative to healing. I had a medical problem at one point that was so arcane and bizarre that most physicians I encountered didn't know anything about it. They had to look it up - thus for a layman to have knowledge of it, even incidental, was highly improbable. Even to articulate it, even in non medical terms, would have been difficult. And this was like ages ago so there was no Internet or casual access to the deluge of information waiting behind a web surfing session. Anyway a friend of mine in TWI, (a young man at the time wo was barely out of high school), ministered to me upon my request. Actually, he was kind of nervous about it as he didn't really have much experience with it but within like a minute he nailed the problem in a specific, succinct, and completely unambiguous fashion. As he was praying he paused before stating the problem because, (as he later told me), he thought it way too strange to even mention. But he got it dead on. 35 years or so down the line I'm still trying to put that one into perspective. Interestingly, I never had another experience like that.

Edited July 10, 2013 by diazbro

[waysider]

Very interesting. I had a similar, though non-healing, experience myself. It resembled what we would think of as being a revelation sort of incident, though I'm not saying that's what it was. It was so strange and startling and anti-TWI, I didn't act on it. If I had, my life what have taken a dramatically different turn for the better. I told my twig leader about it and he told me it was "unrenewed mind". Years later, I discovered on GSC that what I had seen was actually true. It never happened to me before or after that event.

Edited July 10, 2013 by waysider

[WordWolf]

There's some things that get melded together in people's minds, and they make it hard to

PURELY discuss what came up originally.

There's LOTS of people who firmly believe in the power of God- myself included- who believe

people see it in their lives now- myself included- who think that the twi/modern sit is in no way

connected to the Biblical sit. So, some people will say

"Because I believe in the power of God, I can't even consider whether or not vpw passed

a fake on to us, because I'd have to dump the idea of healing, miracles, etc

if I think vpw taught us a fake on something else."

And, in fact, that IS what's been said here, at one point. And confirmed.

I'm not convinced, definitively, that Biblical sit is not available now.

I'm convinced I haven't seen it or experienced it.

If it is out there, I WANT to see and experience it.

I won't do that if I accept a conman's product as the genuine article.

Now, healing and revelation, those I've experienced- no thanks to twi or vpw.

Lots of Christians understand those, most without classes.

[Steve Lortz]

This summer I'm taking a class called "Research and Design," beginning the process of working on my thesis regarding Acts 2. One of the first decisions I made was that I would NOT try to make any linkage between what the New Testament called "speaking in tongues" in the first century and what people call "speaking in tongues" today. I don't think there's any valid scholarly way to make such a linkage, and my adviser agreed.

I personally believe that what I do is genuine. I don't believe that means what WEIRWILLE did when he was teaching PFAL was genuine. I don't believe it negates the decision Raf has made about his own experience.

I don't think whether or not a Christian speaks in tongues today can hamper the Spirit of God from working in or through that person.

I think being honest with Him and with ourselves is one of the things God most wants us to do.

Love,

Steve

[johniam]

I was thinking of starting a thread called 'What would VP have called it today?', but I'll try to sneak it into this thread instead. Sort of related.

OK, during pfal intermediate class he was trying to encourage us to not worry so much about being politically correct; just use your own vocabulary and let it flow. One example he used was a woman from the south whose interpretation of a tongue was, something like, "I hollered and I hollered, but you would not hear". That it was OK to use personal phrases like that.

If that were done today someone might say, "I texted and I texted, but you did not read it", maybe like that.

The only other thing I thought of was his use of the word 'hookiepookism', meaning, basically, some form of the occult. The current politically correct term for that is 'paranormal'. Hmm. Para means along side of, not at cross purposes with. So occult stuff is not at cross purposes with what is normal, eh? Interesting.

[WordWolf]

I was thinking of starting a thread called 'What would VP have called it today?', but I'll try to sneak it into this thread instead. Sort of related.

OK, during pfal intermediate class he was trying to encourage us to not worry so much about being politically correct; just use your own vocabulary and let it flow. One example he used was a woman from the south whose interpretation of a tongue was, something like, "I hollered and I hollered, but you would not hear". That it was OK to use personal phrases like that.

If that were done today someone might say, "I texted and I texted, but you did not read it", maybe like that.

They might.

Of course, the instructions were inconsistent.

The Intermediate was VERY specific about the translations matching

almost exactly- same number of natural breaking points, and the

number of seconds being close to exact. That's contradictory with

being a paraphrase into a slang, since the timing would vary widely.

"I was very, very busy."

"I was as busy as a one-legged man in an @$$-kicking contest."

"I was nervous."

"I was sweating like R Kelly at a Girl Scout Jamboree."

This is obvious to anyone who's actually spent any time trying to

translate anything from one language to another.

For those who have not, they can take out any set of instructions from

any modern electronic product, and compare the length of the

instructions in each language. The printed sections will vary widely

in text, with sentence and word structure determining changes.

For example, German is similar to Greek in having compound words

that translate into entire phrases.

Any fan of "I Love Lucy" should recognize this. The episode "Paris at Last"

(season 5, episode 18) has a scene where phrases are translated,

in succession, from French to German to Spanish to English, or vice

versa, in a translation chain. There's a considerable difference in

the time it takes to say some of the phrases in French and German.

(It's almost as if they're dropping whole sentences.)

The only other thing I thought of was his use of the word 'hookiepookism', meaning, basically, some form of the occult. The current politically correct term for that is 'paranormal'. Hmm. Para means along side of, not at cross purposes with. So occult stuff is not at cross purposes with what is normal, eh? Interesting.

Actually, although I personally don't have a problem with the phrase

"hookiepook" in the abstract, I'm well aware it is DEROGATORY and meant

to BELITTLE and MOCK the subject. (Whether or not it is mock-worthy is

a separate consideration.) So, it's not that "paranormal" is so much

current or politically correct, it is more technical and "correct" in

that it conveys information without adding editorializing than a phrase

meant to belittle it. It's like objecting to the phrase "Asian"

because one prefers to say "ching-chow" or "slope" or "gook" or "chink".

Also, it's a bit disconcerting to see you develop a "private interpretation"

of the English language. You injected a meaning into a definition that

is not there. Parallel lines DO NOT MEET. Both the Merriam Webster Collegiate

Dictionary and the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

(arguably the finest 2 dictionaries of English any person will encounter

face-to-face) note the derivation of "para" in their coverage of "parallel."

http://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=parallel

"[Latin parallēlus, from Greek parallēlos : para-, beside"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parallel

"Origin of PARALLEL

Latin parallelus, from Greek parallēlos, from para beside + allēlōn of one another,

from allos … allos one … another, from allos other"

"Para" as in "paranormal" is "beside normal."

It does not meet what is "normal."

Parapsychology is a supposed field of study that does not intersect with/ cross

Psychology.

I don't see a connection with

"not at cross purposes with."

I can point to "parallel" (I included the links) for formal definitions

that say that there's no intersection/meeting.

There's no formal connection to "not at cross purposes with",

and I've never seen such a claim or usage until your post.

The only thing "interesting" about that would be to explore the

poster drawing a connection between disparate things and why.

[chockfull]

Of course, the instructions were inconsistent.

The Intermediate was VERY specific about the translations matching

almost exactly- same number of natural breaking points, and the

number of seconds being close to exact. That's contradictory with

being a paraphrase into a slang, since the timing would vary widely.

My conclusion is the Intermediate class was invented by Pharisees, promoted by Pharisees, and taught by Pharisees. What can they teach you to do? Well, according to the Bible, they can teach you to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

And that is, IMO, exactly what they teach people to do in this field in the Intermediate class.

[Raf]

Whew. For a second there I thought people were arguing again. Aint nobody got time for that! :)

[chockfull]

Whew. For a second there I thought people were arguing again. Aint nobody got time for that! :)/>

We're all putting the pieces together, brother. Good to see you.

[johniam]

quote:

They might.

Of course, the instructions were inconsistent.

The Intermediate was VERY specific about the translations matching

almost exactly- same number of natural breaking points, and the

number of seconds being close to exact. That's contradictory with

being a paraphrase into a slang, since the timing would vary widely.

Earl Burton's class seemed to lead to that, but VPs class was lighter. VP always said that the interpretation was by inspiration, not revelation, suggesting that you didn't have to be so precise, but in EBs class you were timed during excellor sessions. Not much fun.

[Raf]

When did TWI start using Burton's class instead of TIP?

[chockfull]

When did TWI start using Burton's class instead of TIP?

I'm thinking late '70's - maybe around the AC '79? Anyone with clearer memory?