I think K C Pillai also talked (Orientalisms of the Bible), about Christ being born in the fall, because winter would have just been too cold. Or something. Anyway, I subscribe to the fall. As far as Sept. 11th goes, I don't buy it.
Christ My Savior was born that I do know. When, exactly, I don't care. Only that I am the benefit of that hope, his being born.
I find it endlessly curious that the world at large, Judaism in particular, and even the Christian church itself have all managed to lose track of something as painfully simple as the actual birthday of Jesus Christ. I think that's absolutely amazing. What a cock-up! It's almost as bad as managing to lose all of the original Biblical texts.
But what a wonderful God we have. He knew things like this were bound to happen, so He wrote the entire Word, including the birthday of Jesus Christ, high up in the stars. Up where nobody could touch it and muck it up. Except now, of course, hardly anyone knows how to read the Word in the stars.
He knew things like this were bound to happen, so He wrote the entire Word, including the birthday of Jesus Christ, high up in the stars. Up where nobody could touch it and muck it up. Except now, of course, hardly anyone knows how to read the Word in the stars.
Bit like at the time of Christ's birth then. The Jewish astronomers "knew" but didn't care. Only the Babylonians, taught by Daniel centuries before, had the wit to read, understand, and act upon.
Christ My Savior was born that I do know. When, exactly, I don't care. Only that I am the benefit of that hope, his being born.
I'd agree with that. And every day, not just one specific day or a season, is the time to celebrate it.
Wierwille's calculation was an out of control fantasy ascribing astrological meaning to verses in Revelation that have nothing to do with the Zodiac. That he was not the first to make that calculation does not absolve him of the blame he holds for perpetuating it. With respect to those who worked with sincere hearts on JCOPS, a vile man once said sincerity is no guarantee for truth. When you start with ridiculous assumptions ("Revelation is giving us the clues we need to calculate Jesus' birthday..." WTF?) you end up with ridiculous results.
Jesus never said to celebrate or remember His birthday, He said to memorialize His death. Whatever day he was born....I don't think it really matters. That He was born matters.
I don't believe God has written His word in the stars. The entire creation declares Him and makes man responsible before Him.
It is interesting that Advent and Epiphany were never mentioned. The books I mentioned were Christmas: it's Carols, customs, and Legends-Ruth Heller(Schmitt, Hall & McCreaey/Belwin Mills); The World's Christian-Olive Wyon(Fortress Press); Celebrating Christmas Around the World-Herbert Wernecke(Westminister Press).
This is from Jerry Golden, a messianic Jew who is working very hard to bring the Jews back to israel. He writes most pursuasively in my opinion.
The Feast of Tabernacles.
In the Jewish World
Sukkot "Booths"
also
The birth of Yeshua?
Sept 30th – Oct. 1st, Tishrei 15th 5773
Leviticus 23: 33-44 tells us the story of the Israelites and their journey out of Egypt and the following 40 years of wondering. We can find the name Sukkoth in Gen. 33:17 "And Jacob journeyed to Succoth; and built for himself a house, and made booths for the livestock, therefore the place is named Sukkoth." The Hebrew word Sukkoth means "hut"
The Biblical name for Sukkoth is "The Feast of Tabernacles". There are three times the Lord commanded the Jews to assemble in the Temple in Jerusalem. On these three Holidays they were to present offerings to the Lord. Those three are Passover, Shavu'ot, (Pentecost) and Sukkoth. Sukkoth is the third and last of the three.
But in the month of Tishri, there are three major Holidays of the Feast of the Tabernacle of the Lord, which is God's perfect timetable. The month of Tishri falls in September or October on the Christian Calendar. They are Rosh HaShannah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkoth. These three are often called the Second Advent. The First Advent we have the Feast of Passover,Unleavened Bread and First Fruits. Yeshua died on Passover, He was buried on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and He rose on First Fruits, 50 days later he sent the Holy Spirit on the Following Feast of Shavuoth (Pentecost). So we see here that God is setting up a pattern for us to look for. So we need to look at the remainder of the three Feasts to see the rest of the story, (sounds like Paul Harvey) something as important as the Birth of the Messiah would surely fit into this pattern.
You can purchase books everywhere that tell you about how to celebrate this Holiday so I will stay on subject, and only touch on a couple of things you may not find in some of your books. In general there is a two-fold meaning to this celebration in Israel and throughout the world. The first being the Fall Harvest Lev. 23: that teaches it is a time of bringing in the fall harvest and thanksgiving. Many believe as I do, that the Puritan Colonists who landed in America who were great students of the Hebrew Scriptures based the first American Thanksgiving on Sukkoth.
The second is found in the command to dwell in Booths as a memory to Israel's 40 years of wondering in the wilderness. Another translation of the world Sukkoth is "habitation" as we camp in booths today we need to remember that the same God is watching over us today. That He inhabits our lives with a care beyond our imagination. Sukkoth is known also as "Zman Simkhatenu"(The Time of Rejoicing) the knowledge that God provided His habitation and lives with us, is certainly a time for rejoicing.
There are blessings said over the "Lulav" (palm branch), "Etrog" (citron, a fruit from Israel that looks like a large lemon) also the "Hadas" (Myrtle) and "Arava" (the youngest branch of the willow before it opens) These are called the four spices. The only reason I am spending some time on this is there is something very special here in Biblical teaching. First the Etrog, which taste sweet and has a delightful aroma, represents a person with knowledge or Torah and good deeds. The Lulav which comes from a Date Palm, a fruit that taste sweet but has no fragrance, meaning that some people have knowledge but no good deeds. The Hadas is just opposite, having a nice fragrance yet no taste (good deeds without true knowledge) Arava has neither taste nor smell and speaks of the persons without knowledge or good deeds. James 2:17 sums this up by saying "Faith without works is dead."
Now lets move on to the birth of the Messiah. With the celebration of Sukkoth having so many wonderful teaching in it for the Church today. You would think that the New Testament would have reference in it of Sukkoth. We read in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It says, the Word not only was with God, but the Word was the very manifestation of God Himself.
Then we read in John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, and glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth". What the Word of God says is, "The Word became a human being and lived with us, and we saw His Sh'kinah, The Sh'kinah glory of the Father' only Son full of grace and Glory. But did you notice the word John used to described this event. He said "dwelt" among His people. This word dwelt come from a Greek word "skene" and the Greeks translated that from the Hebrew word "Tabernacle". What I am trying to get you to see is, John was describing the Holy Day of Sukkoth, the Holy Day that celebrates the indwelling of God Himself. So the Word says: And the Word was made flesh and Tabernacled among us,"
The celebration of December 25th as the birth of the Messiah is pagan, and comes from the Roman Empire. The early Church often "christianized" pagan days of celebration to accommodate the new converts. And December shows this very clearly. This date was an ancient feast that celebrated the return of the sun after the winter solatice. It has absolutely nothing to do with the birth of Yeshua. Believers began to say there was no real proof of the Messiah's birth date so this would do. What they didn't consider was John's description using the term "Tabernacle" or Booths or Sukkoth. It is right there before us and so clear I can't understand how it has been so missed by so many who calls themselves Biblical scholars.
If the first Advent showed Yeshua's death on the cross on Unleavened Bread, buried on Passover, and resurrection of First Fruits, and the pouring out of His Holy Spirit on Shavout (Pentacost). Do you think that God would let such an important event as the birth of His only begotten Son go unheralded?
Sukkoth shows that God would dwell "Tabernacle" in the midst of His people, through the presence of the Messiah, Yeshua. There is much more evidence as well, since we know that Yeshua died on Passover and we also know His ministry lasted 3 ½ years we can backtrack and that puts us right at Sukkoth as well. Nearly every serious Bible Theologian calculates that His birth was in the fall, that also is Sukkoth.
One of the ceremonies of Sukkoth is the pouring of water, and a time of prayer for water and rain in Israel. During the second Temple period a Priest would take a water pitcher down to the pool of shiloach (today called Siloam in the city of David) he would bring it back to the Temple. Crowds of people would follow him dancing and singing the Hellel, (Psalms 113-118) The highlight of this ceremony was when the Priest would pour this water at the altar of the Temple. It became known as "Simcha Bet-Ha-sho-evah" (The rejoicing of the House of Drawing Water)
The question is, why would there be so much rejoicing at this pouring of water? It has to be more than rejoicing of the future rain on Israel, as important as that might be. Because we read in Isaiah 12:3 "Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation". (Salvation in Hebrew is Yeshua, the name of the Messiah) GLORY TO GOD.
It was much more than the pouring out of water at the Temple, or even for the rain. The Simcha Bet Ha-sho-evah pointed directly to the coming of the Messiah and the days of redemption when the water of the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon all Israel.
Now we can appreciate the Scripture that was recorded on one day in the Messiah's life and that day was on a Sukkoth. John 7:37-39 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Yeshua stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given: because Yeshua was not yet glorified.) Think for a moment of the time and place of these words being proclaimed by Yeshua. It was Sukkoth and it was the time of the pouring of the water. The crowds were filled with those who had expectation of the Messiah and the Holy Spirit He would bring. At the moment of the time of the pouring of the water the Messiah stood and made this bold proclamation. He was saying. I am the Messiah, do you truly want the living water of the spirit of God? If you truly want the Bet Ha-sho-evah, believe in me. I am the Messiah who will pour out the Holy Spirit on Israel.
After eight days of Sukkoth we will end this celebration, and on the 8th day our Messiah was circumcised. And from here volumes can be written over that event. Shalom jerry golden
Thanks to plagareizing Ernst Martin and the Star of Bethlehem, the date calculated was not the first to place Christ's birth in the fall. Ethelbert Bullinger said it was September 29th, 5 BC which just happened to be the date celebrating St. Michael and All Angels, or as it is called in Great Britain, Michaelmas. However, most theologians say Jesus was born in the springtime, perhaps during Passover. What say you all relating to this? Discuss.
I believe he was born on Sept. 11 in the year 3 BC within whatever time frame JCOPS says. Now, I could be wrong. I did think I was wrong once, but I was mistaken
Someplace in the Word it says that if any man thinks he knows anything, let him know this, that no man knows anything like he ought to know it - something like that. I think that's the only basis upon which to have an honest & humble discussion from which people can leave bigger than they were before. Anything else is residual know that we know that we know that we know. Can't learn anything with that attitude. Isn't it enough that we can know that which is beyond knowledge?
Anyway, here's why I believe JCOPS. I figure people can talk themselves into just about anything, yet I do believe the Word was/is written in the stars pretty much like I believe the Word is written on paper these days. With all the meanings of the names of the houses of the Zodiak, the constellations, the stars, the planets, & the amazing way all of that whole thing fits together storywise, it seems to me that it is not only plausible that the Word is written in the stars, it's like it's right there. How can anyone say it is not there when there it is? To not believe that is like saying maybe there was a tribe of gypse jugglers who juggled letters over gazillions of generations, & one day they all happened to fall down in the form of the bible. OK, so maybe not to that extent, but you get the way my reasoning goes. That whole Word in the stars thing, the names of all those constructions & how all that so fits with the Word just impresses the heck out of me.
And I can see where people who were so versed in that whole thing would notice massings of planets, then this, then that, & knowing the meanings of all these things could get blown away by all that so to say THIS is no coincidence.
I remember some TWI guy sharing with us that he went to the NY planetarium over the Christmas holidays, & the show showed three of those heavenly happenings & how theypossibly indicated JC was born in the fall. So, he gave the guy a copy of JCOPS, & the next year the show included all 6 of them (was it 6?). NY planetarium - that impressed me. Now, I didn't see the show, but I got it from the horses mouth. Hope that doesn't make me the horses you know what.
So, by this time, I'm really intirued by this whole Word in the stars thing & the amazing story it seems to be telling. After a few years of this stuff gumming up my brain cells, I have to attend to it more closely & either accept it with more of a degree of certainty or discount the whole thing & move on. So I buy this software - fairly serious stuff. You know the whole Universe moves & works like clockwork. No one denies THAT, right? I mean, that's why we have clocks & calendars & all - because the Universe works that way. So, these days, especially with computers, they can figure out all kinds of stuff. So, this software was pretty cool. With it, you could look at the known Universe on your computer monitor. As a matter of fact, you could go forward & backwards 6000 years & see what the Univers looked like then. Actually, you could look at the Universe from the perspective of any point in the known Universe. Cool stuff.
So I load up this software, & go back to 9/11 3 BC & look to see if those heavenly configurations described in JCOPS were really there - actually, many were supposed to be there such & such time before his birth, leading up to his birth. Anyway, I'm looking. AND THEY ARE NOT THERE!!. Now, I'm ....ed. It's all a big scam. Boy, do I feel stupid & taken advantage of.
Then I realized I was looking from the perspective of South Florida. Could that make such a difference. So I moved my point of perspective over to Jerusalem and there they were - well the ones that ocurred from that point.
If I'm wrong, the rest of this borders on superstition. I figure that the Devil knows when JC was born & just like we honor JC on his birth (even if we are wrong on the date), his birth & our honoring of his birth bothers him no end. He hates his birth as much as we love it. My mom was born on 9/11. She also broke her hip on 9/11. My dad tripped in the parking lot, & I found him unconcious in a pool of blood - on 9/11. It got to the point that we told them they weren't allowed to go out of the house on 9/11 anymore. Oh, yeah, I found my dad on the 9/11/2001, so yes, the terrorist attacks happened on 9/11. Many people still intensely, blood boilingly, hate that date. The last conversation that I had with one of the principals I served under, she shared with me that her son was coming home for on leave from Iraq & mentioned how he hated the date, 9/11. I shared with her what I just shared with you. She heartliy thanked me & said that she would share it with her son when he came home - that maybe it would help him get over all the heat that burns within him on that date. If 9/11 is really JC's birthday, & the Devil wanted to have Christians filled with other than Christian feelings on that day, he certainly succeeded.
BTW, I just want you to know that you know that you know that if I'm wrong about that date, I didn't just type all this. There is a band of letter juggling gypsies inside my computer, & all the letters just happened to come out that way.
I believe he was born on Sept. 11 in the year 3 BC within whatever time frame JCOPS says. Now, I could be wrong. I did think I was wrong once, but I was mistaken :anim-smile:/>
Someplace in the Word it says that if any man thinks he knows anything, let him know this, that no man knows anything like he ought to know it - something like that. I think that's the only basis upon which to have an honest & humble discussion from which people can leave bigger than they were before. Anything else is residual know that we know that we know that we know. Can't learn anything with that attitude. Isn't it enough that we can know that which is beyond knowledge?
Anyway, here's why I believe JCOPS. I figure people can talk themselves into just about anything, yet I do believe the Word was/is written in the stars pretty much like I believe the Word is written on paper these days. With all the meanings of the names of the houses of the Zodiak, the constellations, the stars, the planets, & the amazing way all of that whole thing fits together storywise, it seems to me that it is not only plausible that the Word is written in the stars, it's like it's right there. How can anyone say it is not there when there it is? To not believe that is like saying maybe there was a tribe of gypse jugglers who juggled letters over gazillions of generations, & one day they all happened to fall down in the form of the bible. OK, so maybe not to that extent, but you get the way my reasoning goes. That whole Word in the stars thing, the names of all those constructions & how all that so fits with the Word just impresses the heck out of me.
And I can see where people who were so versed in that whole thing would notice massings of planets, then this, then that, & knowing the meanings of all these things could get blown away by all that so to say THIS is no coincidence.
I remember some TWI guy sharing with us that he went to the NY planetarium over the Christmas holidays, & the show showed three of those heavenly happenings & how theypossibly indicated JC was born in the fall. So, he gave the guy a copy of JCOPS, & the next year the show included all 6 of them (was it 6?). NY planetarium - that impressed me. Now, I didn't see the show, but I got it from the horses mouth. Hope that doesn't make me the horses you know what.
So, by this time, I'm really intirued by this whole Word in the stars thing & the amazing story it seems to be telling. After a few years of this stuff gumming up my brain cells, I have to attend to it more closely & either accept it with more of a degree of certainty or discount the whole thing & move on. So I buy this software - fairly serious stuff. You know the whole Universe moves & works like clockwork. No one denies THAT, right? I mean, that's why we have clocks & calendars & all - because the Universe works that way. So, these days, especially with computers, they can figure out all kinds of stuff. So, this software was pretty cool. With it, you could look at the known Universe on your computer monitor. As a matter of fact, you could go forward & backwards 6000 years & see what the Univers looked like then. Actually, you could look at the Universe from the perspective of any point in the known Universe. Cool stuff.
So I load up this software, & go back to 9/11 3 BC & look to see if those heavenly configurations described in JCOPS were really there - actually, many were supposed to be there such & such time before his birth, leading up to his birth. Anyway, I'm looking. AND THEY ARE NOT THERE!!. Now, I'm ....ed. It's all a big scam. Boy, do I feel stupid & taken advantage of. :realmad:/>
Then I realized I was looking from the perspective of South Florida. Could that make such a difference. So I moved my point of perspective over to Jerusalem and there they were - well the ones that ocurred from that point.
If I'm wrong, the rest of this borders on superstition. I figure that the Devil knows when JC was born & just like we honor JC on his birth (even if we are wrong on the date), his birth & our honoring of his birth bothers him no end. He hates his birth as much as we love it. My mom was born on 9/11. She also broke her hip on 9/11. My dad tripped in the parking lot, & I found him unconcious in a pool of blood - on 9/11. It got to the point that we told them they weren't allowed to go out of the house on 9/11 anymore. Oh, yeah, I found my dad on the 9/11/2001, so yes, the terrorist attacks happened on 9/11. Many people still intensely, blood boilingly, hate that date. The last conversation that I had with one of the principals I served under, she shared with me that her son was coming home for on leave from Iraq & mentioned how he hated the date, 9/11. I shared with her what I just shared with you. She heartliy thanked me & said that she would share it with her son when he came home - that maybe it would help him get over all the heat that burns within him on that date. If 9/11 is really JC's birthday, & the Devil wanted to have Christians filled with other than Christian feelings on that day, he certainly succeeded.
BTW, I just want you to know that you know that you know that if I'm wrong about that date, I didn't just type all this. There is a band of letter juggling gypsies inside my computer, & all the letters just happened to come out that way.
Be of good cheer,
Tom
Tom:
Your story was very refreshing! And how resourceful it was for you to change your "perspective" and find the "signs" still there (which may have prompted the Magi to plan a trip, etc...)! I also read JCOPS, and other related things such as Wittness of the Stars by Bullinger.
As for me, my days with TWI ended after quite a few (30+) faithful years, when I finally learned that they were just not interested in something I had found. (I guess by then, because of the "fog" - if you remember that time - there was sort of a "ban on new research", known only within the "inner circles" such as the Corps, and Clergy, etc. - but I had to find out the hard way!) :asdf:/> When any new research came along, I guess FLAGS went up, and the machinery was set in motion to discourage it.
Pitifully though, I didn't realize that --- Because of the nature of my "wonderful discoveries" I was minded to only share it with Corps and above, because just a little of it differed from what they had been teaching in PFAL. (Later I thought it best to only share it with the "ordained" Revs.) I just didn't want it getting out of hand, or start a stink by sharing it with others first, before the "leader...." was made privy to it. I believe I was acting commendable in God's eyes.
Instead of noticing their non-interest, I chose to think that the "Limp and Legion" (Ha!) Corrdinators I was trying to share it with were just "too busy" to take it all in, and if I were patient enough, eventually they would see it. (My meetings with them were rather brief, and their calendars were always full, as usuual.) So I didn't mind the wait. What I hated though, was that I was never able to conclude anything by the time they had to leave on another assignment -- and i would have to start over with his replacement! :asdf:/> I did that over and over for a decade or so. (What a chump I was, supposing they would really appreciate this "great stuff", once they got up to speed with it!) Personally, I would rank the level of my findings up with their Athletes of the Spirit discovery - for which they did a full production, with an orchestra, etc! IMHO What I found could have made a FAR GREATER impact even all of that, but they just didn't care enough to just look at it with an open heart!
And boy -- how they would have soaked it all in had they done so!! It was right up their alley! Truth is, later on I realized it was neither their lack of interest nor my inability to make it plain to them all those years - AND it was also not the adversary keeping it from them somehow (for I am sure they would have loved it). After a long battle, when I finally realized I was getting nowhere, I left them.
After coming here to GreaseSpot, and seeing how they really did things at TWI, It was then then that I realized that it was God himself who had organized things so they would not have my research for themselves! If they had really seen its value, they would surely have stolen it from me - just as they had done to many others before me. And even if the adversary had truly been involved anyways, it was God who allowed it to be so! (God takes the wise in their own craftiness!)
I guess God thought this good enough to protect it from their greedy little hands so I could enjoy it, and make it available to everyone who wants it, and not have it hidden in some tiny, second-rate bookstore for a few chosen people to have --- and with somebody ele's name on it! Ha! Ha! I sould have wised up long before I did and saved myself fropm another 12 years or so with them, huh? (Talk about being patient to a fault --- my bad! --- LOL)
So, anyways - now it is mine alone - for it is published worldwide, in a book. Gee....why am I telling you all this detail? Oh yeah! Part of what I had found relates to this thread --- sorry for getting carried away, and for all of the ranting, Tom....
...I'll try to be brief now. ----- What I saw basically was a direct correlation between the 7 days in Genesis One and the 7 Administrations. (Nuff of that for now!) Anyways, I find it curiously interesting that the only place in Genesis that talks about the stars just happens to be on the 4th day, which (according my "vast:" research) corresponds to the 4th administration - which is the Christ Admin, or Gopspel Period - where we just happen to find the records of the Magi, and the birth of Jesus Christ, etc. (Pretty cool stuff, I think!)
Even the word "signs" found during the 4th day is "simeon" in the LXX, meaning God's announcing of some important event (or significant person) to come. And the word for "seasons" there denotes a specific time and place, like an "appointment". Just think of that in light of the Magi coming at the right time and place to see something of great significance!!!
I guess what I'm trying to say is: that I am convinced about the Word being written in the stars, and can appreicate what you found with your nice "software". BUT! --- If anyone can come along and simply show me something which makes even more sense, I will naturally change my position in a hearbeat !
Now --- of course I realize that my "premise" sounds a little wild and crazy (and to some, downright ridiculous!). But basically, the few things I did mention about the 4th day, etc, are not just coincidences. I have found literally hundreds (if not thousands!) of other similar parallels which tie my "notion" together about the 7 days and administrations complimenting each other throughout the Word. Now, all of that cannot just be coincidental, can it?
Anyways, my book is entitled Genesis One: God's Table of Contents to the Bible, should you want to see more. You can find it easily enough if you want, and Amazon will let you see quite a bit of it by "looking inside". Thanks for your patience.
Strange that this response was written on Shrove Tuesday/Madre Gras/Fastnicht right before Ash Wednesday
It is interesting that Advent and Epiphany were never mentioned. The books I mentioned were Christmas: it's Carols, customs, and Legends-Ruth Heller(Schmitt, Hall & McCreaey/Belwin Mills); The World's Christmas-Olive Wyon(Fortress Press); Celebrating Christmas Around the World-Herbert Wernecke(Westminister Press).
Now --- of course I realize that my "premise" sounds a little wild and crazy (and to some, downright ridiculous!). But basically, the few things I did mention about the 4th day, etc, are not just coincidences. I have found literally hundreds (if not thousands!) of other similar parallels which tie my "notion" together about the 7 days and administrations complimenting each other throughout the Word. Now, all of that cannot just be coincidental, can it?
Anyways, my book is entitled Genesis One: God's Table of Contents to the Bible, should you want to see more. You can find it easily enough if you want, and Amazon will let you see quite a bit of it by "looking inside". Thanks for your patience.
SPEC :)/>/>
Melvin W. Elliott
Hello Melvin,
Thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you were refreshed by my post. No "patience" was required to read yours; I thoroughly enjoyed it. Your premise promises to play out perfectly spiritually. I just ordered your book, and I'm looking forward to reading how it does play out.
Concepts that are "new" enough, even if they fit seamlessly with the old that people accept without question, often appear ridiculous. Expectations for growth appear before our mind's eye to proceed in a linear fashion. I learned so much last year, so I'll learn the same amount next year. But knowledge grows exponentially, and the true knowledge of the love of Christ performs exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think.
We hang back behind walls we've built between us and else. Jesus, the beautiful one, our beloved, stands behind our wall, he looks in through the windows, showing himself through the latticework. If we behold him there, he speaks to us and says to us, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. Come out from behind that wall you've built. Come with me into the springtime; the earth is bearing fruit.
It sounds that, like the Magi, you noticed the clues that the Lord left you, the Lord, peeking through the latticework, and followed him out into the springtime bearing fruit.
And you wrote it in a book Thanks for rising up and going with him.
We hang back behind walls we've built between us and else. Jesus, the beautiful one, our beloved, stands behind our wall, he looks in through the windows, showing himself through the latticework. If we behold him there, he speaks to us and says to us, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. Come out from behind that wall you've built. Come with me into the springtime; the earth is bearing fruit.
It sounds that, like the Magi, you noticed the clues that the Lord left you, the Lord, peeking through the latticework, and followed him out into the springtime bearing fruit.
Tom, my friend and brother in Christ,
I simply love your style of writing! It reads like "prose poetry". It stimulates the mind and excites the imagination.
Now I understand why I was ranting a bit about my former years with "you know who" - I rarely do that. After finishing what I had to say, I was mindful to just delete it and answer to the topic with a short thread. But somehow I guess it was ok, for your sake.
And how meek you are! It surprised me how you actually ordered the book, as my intention in the post was certainly not just to "peddle" a few more of them.
And thanks for letting me know that you didn't mind sifting through my post by saying "it required no patience". That too, was most refreshing! (Sometimes I judge my manner as too lengthy and detailed for most to bear, when I am merely assuring myself they will have enough to get the point - and I often say more than is probably necessary to convince myself it will be understood in the end.)
As for my book: Knowing you realize that nothing man does is perfect, I'm sure it will not be a shock to you if "little errors" appear here and there, according your level of scope concerning the Scripture. I am most confident they will not be a bother to you whatsoever. (However, if there IS something glaring, I trust you might bring that to my attention. Thank you!)
At the risk of again appearing foolish (by the multitude of words), I am mindful to let you in on something which is not in the book - perhaps only for your amusement. (Because of its nature, I may have just "friended you" here and sent it in a private message.) But what the heck --- I am not ashamed of it being made public. If people want to scoff, that's ok with me!
The revealing of the whole concept for my book turned out to be some marvelous "divine distraction from my carnal woes" at the time, perhaps the lowest point in my life to-date. I was sitting in yet another PFAL class in Phoenix AZ (my 50th or so), right behind the adulterer who had stolen my wife and children while we were all living in Oregon. (In Sep '87, I came home to a short note from my wife after work one day saying she was leaving - and there was no address or number.)
By December (while witnessing in my neighborhood) I just happened to be speaking with an old lady who turned out to be his grandmother! She felt bad for me. Although she had been instructed not to divulge their whereabouts, God worked in her heart to inform me they were in Phoenix, a 1000 miles away.
So I quit my job, left college, and moved to Phoenix. By June '88, he was taking PFAL for the first time, and my seat assignment was directly behind him. And his lover (my wife) was there as well.
[it's curious how everyone around knew the situation, but did nothing about it. In fact, I found out some time after the class that a Reverend living in the area was planning to perform their "ministry wedding" just as soon as my wife could serve me the "final decree". (Go figure!) Sorry for the detail - I just wanted you to understand my predicament, so you may better appreciate what God did for me during my time of woe.]
I just cannot put into words how I truly felt during that class, but had hope that this guy (and my wife as well) would wise up once he understood the Word and they might stop all this nonsense so I could have my family back.
The grads were given an assignment to do a word study on "abundance" as in Jn 10:10. I had always loved to study. After three days I had looked up all the usages of "perisso" and turned my work in. (I can't honestly say I learned anything more from that study about how immense our abundance is in Christ. I sort of knew it was pretty big already from other classes, fellowships and research over the years.)
But a curious thing was happening in my life during the next three mornings. As my manner is, I would begin the day by reading the Bible for a few minutes. As sometimes happens, I couldn't decide just where to read. (We all do that, huh?) Well, it was the third day in a row this had happened and I was not pleased with myself at all!
Years before, I had come up with a remedy for this "terrible habit of indecision". I would simply invoke a penalty of sorts - that I must now read the entire Bible! That way, for about a year or so, it would be much easier to decide where to read in the mornings. And after I was finished, I'd be damned sure to make up my mind a little quicker from then on! (And please don't ask how many times I have had to do that, for I would be ashamed to tell you!)
So, I began my task in Gen 1:1. When I reached verse 20, I noticed the word "abundantly". Having already turned in my assignment, I thought to myself: "Darn - this is it's first usage in the Bible! What a shame I had not included it, for noting that research key would surely have impressed the class leader!" (I didn't have the Septuagint yet.) By the next verse I saw it again, and thought: "Darn - it's there twice in a row, meaning it's established, and I missed yet another chance to impress him!"
It's funny though. With "abundance on the brain" from my recent studying, (and having learned that words in the scriptures are defined in their initial usage) I could not help applying its implication to what I had studied. In the context, it was apparent that God was using all the life in all the oceans of the world as an example of just what abundance might entail. I was simply thrilled by that implication!
And I must admit that those two simple verses did more for me to further appreciate the possible immensity of our abundance during this Age of Grace than that entire 3-day word study. WOW!
Soon, I reached verse 23: "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day." Strangely, the word "fifth" seemed to be in bold print. And then, something came over me which was quite amazing. (I do not teach phenomena, which is why I didn't comment on this in my book. But I am pleased to tell you about it, Tom, perceiving you are a man of understanding.)
The light around me dimmed a bit as I stared at the word "fifth" in amazement. All of a sudden I felt as "high as a kite" and my eyes were even glazed over, just as I had experienced years before during my "drug days" back in the 60's. (I would be willing to bet that if I had looked into a mirror, they would have been red as a beet too!) As a matter of fact, after the first minute or so it felt as though I were "somewhere else", just like on LSD, or something. What a trip, man! (But I knew I was still there in my living room reading the Bible.)
The entire "vision" (or whatever it truly was) lasted from about 2-5 minutes or so (I cannot tell). Whether it was phenomena, revelation, or my own mind at work is hard to fathom. Most likely, it was a combination of things.
During that time, the first thing I noticed was a possible parallel between this word "abundance" and our 5th administration, where we see our great riches in Christ. Just to be sure it might truly be something of significance, I remember quickly scanning Genesis One to see if it appeared on any other day. And it didn't!
Then it occurred to me that there are a total of 7 days here in Genesis One, and I had been taught that there are also 7 administrations which cover the entire Bible. What a stretch of the imagination to suppose that each of these days might mysteriously relate to each of the administrations in some kind of perfect order!
As marvelous as this all seemed to me, I still considered I may just be projecting my own thoughts into the Bible, based on some presupposed notion or premise - which is utterly wrong practice while honestly working the scriptures! But because I felt high without drugs and realized that somehow God may be orchestrating all of this, I rather considered it to be an exception to the norm. So I just relaxed and allowed him to "do his thing."
Immediately, dozens of ideas and related verses were streaming through my mind, all connecting up into some wonderful amazing pattern. It was like "sunesis on steroids". The amount of things God can show someone in a moment of time is simply amazing! (He's the master teacher, for sure.)
After a short time the "vision" was over. I had returned from wherever the heck I had been; my eyes instantly felt normal and I was no longer high.
And such began my noble quest to look deeply into this matter: "searching the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11) And I also decided to be kind to myself by rescinding that "self-inflicted punishment" of having to read the whole Bible through again. And from then on, I've never had a problem deciding where to read in the mornings.
Also --- I was no longer distracted during the rest of that PFAL class, for I now had plenty to keep my mind upon - rather than my own "earthly troubles". All of that seemed utterly trivial in comparison to what had been revealed to me. And it didn't bother me much at all when my wife married her new lover soon after that. Amazingly, it was only two months later that I met my present wife. We will celebrate our 25th anniversary next year.
Though I cannot remember all of which had been revealed during those few precious moments, I would be willing to bet that most of it ended up in my book after having thoroughly investigated that "notion" to my own satisfaction. I finally published my findings in January of 2010. Enjoy!
With great anticipation, I am looking forward to your take on it. In the meantime, if you have any questions do feel free to contact me at any time.
I had looked previously on the web to see if Rosh Hashana was on September 11, 3 bc, and could not find that information.
During my Rosh Hashana research this year I found a jewish website where I could ask questions, and posed that question, but haven't received an answer.
An interesting bit of information is that the Rosh Hashana Jewish tradition includes that Rosh Hashana is the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve, which makes the birthday of Jesus Christ on this day more intriguing.
This is the website where I was looking: chabad.org
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Human without the bean
I think K C Pillai also talked (Orientalisms of the Bible), about Christ being born in the fall, because winter would have just been too cold. Or something. Anyway, I subscribe to the fall. As far as Sept. 11th goes, I don't buy it.
Christ My Savior was born that I do know. When, exactly, I don't care. Only that I am the benefit of that hope, his being born.
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WordWolf
I agree.
I'm willing to hear any reasoned position on the subject, but I'm ok with not knowing exactly when.
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OperaBuff
I find it endlessly curious that the world at large, Judaism in particular, and even the Christian church itself have all managed to lose track of something as painfully simple as the actual birthday of Jesus Christ. I think that's absolutely amazing. What a cock-up! It's almost as bad as managing to lose all of the original Biblical texts.
But what a wonderful God we have. He knew things like this were bound to happen, so He wrote the entire Word, including the birthday of Jesus Christ, high up in the stars. Up where nobody could touch it and muck it up. Except now, of course, hardly anyone knows how to read the Word in the stars.
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Twinky
Bit like at the time of Christ's birth then. The Jewish astronomers "knew" but didn't care. Only the Babylonians, taught by Daniel centuries before, had the wit to read, understand, and act upon.
I'd agree with that. And every day, not just one specific day or a season, is the time to celebrate it.
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Raf
Wierwille's calculation was an out of control fantasy ascribing astrological meaning to verses in Revelation that have nothing to do with the Zodiac. That he was not the first to make that calculation does not absolve him of the blame he holds for perpetuating it. With respect to those who worked with sincere hearts on JCOPS, a vile man once said sincerity is no guarantee for truth. When you start with ridiculous assumptions ("Revelation is giving us the clues we need to calculate Jesus' birthday..." WTF?) you end up with ridiculous results.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
see my reply in the forum Along The Way
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geisha779
Jesus never said to celebrate or remember His birthday, He said to memorialize His death. Whatever day he was born....I don't think it really matters. That He was born matters.
I don't believe God has written His word in the stars. The entire creation declares Him and makes man responsible before Him.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
It is interesting that Advent and Epiphany were never mentioned. The books I mentioned were Christmas: it's Carols, customs, and Legends-Ruth Heller(Schmitt, Hall & McCreaey/Belwin Mills); The World's Christian-Olive Wyon(Fortress Press); Celebrating Christmas Around the World-Herbert Wernecke(Westminister Press).
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Kit Sober
This is from Jerry Golden, a messianic Jew who is working very hard to bring the Jews back to israel. He writes most pursuasively in my opinion.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
added more references in the About the Way forum
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Tom
I believe he was born on Sept. 11 in the year 3 BC within whatever time frame JCOPS says. Now, I could be wrong. I did think I was wrong once, but I was mistaken
Someplace in the Word it says that if any man thinks he knows anything, let him know this, that no man knows anything like he ought to know it - something like that. I think that's the only basis upon which to have an honest & humble discussion from which people can leave bigger than they were before. Anything else is residual know that we know that we know that we know. Can't learn anything with that attitude. Isn't it enough that we can know that which is beyond knowledge?
Anyway, here's why I believe JCOPS. I figure people can talk themselves into just about anything, yet I do believe the Word was/is written in the stars pretty much like I believe the Word is written on paper these days. With all the meanings of the names of the houses of the Zodiak, the constellations, the stars, the planets, & the amazing way all of that whole thing fits together storywise, it seems to me that it is not only plausible that the Word is written in the stars, it's like it's right there. How can anyone say it is not there when there it is? To not believe that is like saying maybe there was a tribe of gypse jugglers who juggled letters over gazillions of generations, & one day they all happened to fall down in the form of the bible. OK, so maybe not to that extent, but you get the way my reasoning goes. That whole Word in the stars thing, the names of all those constructions & how all that so fits with the Word just impresses the heck out of me.
And I can see where people who were so versed in that whole thing would notice massings of planets, then this, then that, & knowing the meanings of all these things could get blown away by all that so to say THIS is no coincidence.
I remember some TWI guy sharing with us that he went to the NY planetarium over the Christmas holidays, & the show showed three of those heavenly happenings & how theypossibly indicated JC was born in the fall. So, he gave the guy a copy of JCOPS, & the next year the show included all 6 of them (was it 6?). NY planetarium - that impressed me. Now, I didn't see the show, but I got it from the horses mouth. Hope that doesn't make me the horses you know what.
So, by this time, I'm really intirued by this whole Word in the stars thing & the amazing story it seems to be telling. After a few years of this stuff gumming up my brain cells, I have to attend to it more closely & either accept it with more of a degree of certainty or discount the whole thing & move on. So I buy this software - fairly serious stuff. You know the whole Universe moves & works like clockwork. No one denies THAT, right? I mean, that's why we have clocks & calendars & all - because the Universe works that way. So, these days, especially with computers, they can figure out all kinds of stuff. So, this software was pretty cool. With it, you could look at the known Universe on your computer monitor. As a matter of fact, you could go forward & backwards 6000 years & see what the Univers looked like then. Actually, you could look at the Universe from the perspective of any point in the known Universe. Cool stuff.
So I load up this software, & go back to 9/11 3 BC & look to see if those heavenly configurations described in JCOPS were really there - actually, many were supposed to be there such & such time before his birth, leading up to his birth. Anyway, I'm looking. AND THEY ARE NOT THERE!!. Now, I'm ....ed. It's all a big scam. Boy, do I feel stupid & taken advantage of.
Then I realized I was looking from the perspective of South Florida. Could that make such a difference. So I moved my point of perspective over to Jerusalem and there they were - well the ones that ocurred from that point.
If I'm wrong, the rest of this borders on superstition. I figure that the Devil knows when JC was born & just like we honor JC on his birth (even if we are wrong on the date), his birth & our honoring of his birth bothers him no end. He hates his birth as much as we love it. My mom was born on 9/11. She also broke her hip on 9/11. My dad tripped in the parking lot, & I found him unconcious in a pool of blood - on 9/11. It got to the point that we told them they weren't allowed to go out of the house on 9/11 anymore. Oh, yeah, I found my dad on the 9/11/2001, so yes, the terrorist attacks happened on 9/11. Many people still intensely, blood boilingly, hate that date. The last conversation that I had with one of the principals I served under, she shared with me that her son was coming home for on leave from Iraq & mentioned how he hated the date, 9/11. I shared with her what I just shared with you. She heartliy thanked me & said that she would share it with her son when he came home - that maybe it would help him get over all the heat that burns within him on that date. If 9/11 is really JC's birthday, & the Devil wanted to have Christians filled with other than Christian feelings on that day, he certainly succeeded.
BTW, I just want you to know that you know that you know that if I'm wrong about that date, I didn't just type all this. There is a band of letter juggling gypsies inside my computer, & all the letters just happened to come out that way.
Be of good cheer,
Tom
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spectrum49
Tom:
Your story was very refreshing! And how resourceful it was for you to change your "perspective" and find the "signs" still there (which may have prompted the Magi to plan a trip, etc...)! I also read JCOPS, and other related things such as Wittness of the Stars by Bullinger.
As for me, my days with TWI ended after quite a few (30+) faithful years, when I finally learned that they were just not interested in something I had found. (I guess by then, because of the "fog" - if you remember that time - there was sort of a "ban on new research", known only within the "inner circles" such as the Corps, and Clergy, etc. - but I had to find out the hard way!) :asdf:/> When any new research came along, I guess FLAGS went up, and the machinery was set in motion to discourage it.
Pitifully though, I didn't realize that --- Because of the nature of my "wonderful discoveries" I was minded to only share it with Corps and above, because just a little of it differed from what they had been teaching in PFAL. (Later I thought it best to only share it with the "ordained" Revs.) I just didn't want it getting out of hand, or start a stink by sharing it with others first, before the "leader...." was made privy to it. I believe I was acting commendable in God's eyes.
Instead of noticing their non-interest, I chose to think that the "Limp and Legion" (Ha!) Corrdinators I was trying to share it with were just "too busy" to take it all in, and if I were patient enough, eventually they would see it. (My meetings with them were rather brief, and their calendars were always full, as usuual.) So I didn't mind the wait. What I hated though, was that I was never able to conclude anything by the time they had to leave on another assignment -- and i would have to start over with his replacement! :asdf:/> I did that over and over for a decade or so. (What a chump I was, supposing they would really appreciate this "great stuff", once they got up to speed with it!) Personally, I would rank the level of my findings up with their Athletes of the Spirit discovery - for which they did a full production, with an orchestra, etc! IMHO What I found could have made a FAR GREATER impact even all of that, but they just didn't care enough to just look at it with an open heart!
And boy -- how they would have soaked it all in had they done so!! It was right up their alley! Truth is, later on I realized it was neither their lack of interest nor my inability to make it plain to them all those years - AND it was also not the adversary keeping it from them somehow (for I am sure they would have loved it). After a long battle, when I finally realized I was getting nowhere, I left them.
After coming here to GreaseSpot, and seeing how they really did things at TWI, It was then then that I realized that it was God himself who had organized things so they would not have my research for themselves! If they had really seen its value, they would surely have stolen it from me - just as they had done to many others before me. And even if the adversary had truly been involved anyways, it was God who allowed it to be so! (God takes the wise in their own craftiness!)
I guess God thought this good enough to protect it from their greedy little hands so I could enjoy it, and make it available to everyone who wants it, and not have it hidden in some tiny, second-rate bookstore for a few chosen people to have --- and with somebody ele's name on it! Ha! Ha! I sould have wised up long before I did and saved myself fropm another 12 years or so with them, huh? (Talk about being patient to a fault --- my bad! --- LOL)
So, anyways - now it is mine alone - for it is published worldwide, in a book. Gee....why am I telling you all this detail? Oh yeah! Part of what I had found relates to this thread --- sorry for getting carried away, and for all of the ranting, Tom....
...I'll try to be brief now. ----- What I saw basically was a direct correlation between the 7 days in Genesis One and the 7 Administrations. (Nuff of that for now!) Anyways, I find it curiously interesting that the only place in Genesis that talks about the stars just happens to be on the 4th day, which (according my "vast:" research) corresponds to the 4th administration - which is the Christ Admin, or Gopspel Period - where we just happen to find the records of the Magi, and the birth of Jesus Christ, etc. (Pretty cool stuff, I think!)
Even the word "signs" found during the 4th day is "simeon" in the LXX, meaning God's announcing of some important event (or significant person) to come. And the word for "seasons" there denotes a specific time and place, like an "appointment". Just think of that in light of the Magi coming at the right time and place to see something of great significance!!!
I guess what I'm trying to say is: that I am convinced about the Word being written in the stars, and can appreicate what you found with your nice "software". BUT! --- If anyone can come along and simply show me something which makes even more sense, I will naturally change my position in a hearbeat !
Now --- of course I realize that my "premise" sounds a little wild and crazy (and to some, downright ridiculous!). But basically, the few things I did mention about the 4th day, etc, are not just coincidences. I have found literally hundreds (if not thousands!) of other similar parallels which tie my "notion" together about the 7 days and administrations complimenting each other throughout the Word. Now, all of that cannot just be coincidental, can it?
Anyways, my book is entitled Genesis One: God's Table of Contents to the Bible, should you want to see more. You can find it easily enough if you want, and Amazon will let you see quite a bit of it by "looking inside". Thanks for your patience.
SPEC :)/>
Melvin W. Elliott
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Strange that this response was written on Shrove Tuesday/Madre Gras/Fastnicht right before Ash Wednesday
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Tom
Hello Melvin,
Thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you were refreshed by my post. No "patience" was required to read yours; I thoroughly enjoyed it. Your premise promises to play out perfectly spiritually. I just ordered your book, and I'm looking forward to reading how it does play out.
Concepts that are "new" enough, even if they fit seamlessly with the old that people accept without question, often appear ridiculous. Expectations for growth appear before our mind's eye to proceed in a linear fashion. I learned so much last year, so I'll learn the same amount next year. But knowledge grows exponentially, and the true knowledge of the love of Christ performs exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think.
We hang back behind walls we've built between us and else. Jesus, the beautiful one, our beloved, stands behind our wall, he looks in through the windows, showing himself through the latticework. If we behold him there, he speaks to us and says to us, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. Come out from behind that wall you've built. Come with me into the springtime; the earth is bearing fruit.
It sounds that, like the Magi, you noticed the clues that the Lord left you, the Lord, peeking through the latticework, and followed him out into the springtime bearing fruit.
And you wrote it in a book
Thanks for rising up and going with him.
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spectrum49
Tom, my friend and brother in Christ,
I simply love your style of writing! It reads like "prose poetry". It stimulates the mind and excites the imagination.
Now I understand why I was ranting a bit about my former years with "you know who" - I rarely do that. After finishing what I had to say, I was mindful to just delete it and answer to the topic with a short thread. But somehow I guess it was ok, for your sake.
And how meek you are! It surprised me how you actually ordered the book, as my intention in the post was certainly not just to "peddle" a few more of them.
And thanks for letting me know that you didn't mind sifting through my post by saying "it required no patience". That too, was most refreshing! (Sometimes I judge my manner as too lengthy and detailed for most to bear, when I am merely assuring myself they will have enough to get the point - and I often say more than is probably necessary to convince myself it will be understood in the end.)
As for my book: Knowing you realize that nothing man does is perfect, I'm sure it will not be a shock to you if "little errors" appear here and there, according your level of scope concerning the Scripture. I am most confident they will not be a bother to you whatsoever. (However, if there IS something glaring, I trust you might bring that to my attention. Thank you!)
At the risk of again appearing foolish (by the multitude of words), I am mindful to let you in on something which is not in the book - perhaps only for your amusement. (Because of its nature, I may have just "friended you" here and sent it in a private message.) But what the heck --- I am not ashamed of it being made public. If people want to scoff, that's ok with me!
The revealing of the whole concept for my book turned out to be some marvelous "divine distraction from my carnal woes" at the time, perhaps the lowest point in my life to-date. I was sitting in yet another PFAL class in Phoenix AZ (my 50th or so), right behind the adulterer who had stolen my wife and children while we were all living in Oregon. (In Sep '87, I came home to a short note from my wife after work one day saying she was leaving - and there was no address or number.)
By December (while witnessing in my neighborhood) I just happened to be speaking with an old lady who turned out to be his grandmother! She felt bad for me. Although she had been instructed not to divulge their whereabouts, God worked in her heart to inform me they were in Phoenix, a 1000 miles away.
So I quit my job, left college, and moved to Phoenix. By June '88, he was taking PFAL for the first time, and my seat assignment was directly behind him. And his lover (my wife) was there as well.
[it's curious how everyone around knew the situation, but did nothing about it. In fact, I found out some time after the class that a Reverend living in the area was planning to perform their "ministry wedding" just as soon as my wife could serve me the "final decree". (Go figure!) Sorry for the detail - I just wanted you to understand my predicament, so you may better appreciate what God did for me during my time of woe.]
I just cannot put into words how I truly felt during that class, but had hope that this guy (and my wife as well) would wise up once he understood the Word and they might stop all this nonsense so I could have my family back.
The grads were given an assignment to do a word study on "abundance" as in Jn 10:10. I had always loved to study. After three days I had looked up all the usages of "perisso" and turned my work in. (I can't honestly say I learned anything more from that study about how immense our abundance is in Christ. I sort of knew it was pretty big already from other classes, fellowships and research over the years.)
But a curious thing was happening in my life during the next three mornings. As my manner is, I would begin the day by reading the Bible for a few minutes. As sometimes happens, I couldn't decide just where to read. (We all do that, huh?) Well, it was the third day in a row this had happened and I was not pleased with myself at all!
Years before, I had come up with a remedy for this "terrible habit of indecision". I would simply invoke a penalty of sorts - that I must now read the entire Bible! That way, for about a year or so, it would be much easier to decide where to read in the mornings. And after I was finished, I'd be damned sure to make up my mind a little quicker from then on! (And please don't ask how many times I have had to do that, for I would be ashamed to tell you!)
So, I began my task in Gen 1:1. When I reached verse 20, I noticed the word "abundantly". Having already turned in my assignment, I thought to myself: "Darn - this is it's first usage in the Bible! What a shame I had not included it, for noting that research key would surely have impressed the class leader!" (I didn't have the Septuagint yet.) By the next verse I saw it again, and thought: "Darn - it's there twice in a row, meaning it's established, and I missed yet another chance to impress him!"
It's funny though. With "abundance on the brain" from my recent studying, (and having learned that words in the scriptures are defined in their initial usage) I could not help applying its implication to what I had studied. In the context, it was apparent that God was using all the life in all the oceans of the world as an example of just what abundance might entail. I was simply thrilled by that implication!
And I must admit that those two simple verses did more for me to further appreciate the possible immensity of our abundance during this Age of Grace than that entire 3-day word study. WOW!
Soon, I reached verse 23: "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day." Strangely, the word "fifth" seemed to be in bold print. And then, something came over me which was quite amazing. (I do not teach phenomena, which is why I didn't comment on this in my book. But I am pleased to tell you about it, Tom, perceiving you are a man of understanding.)
The light around me dimmed a bit as I stared at the word "fifth" in amazement. All of a sudden I felt as "high as a kite" and my eyes were even glazed over, just as I had experienced years before during my "drug days" back in the 60's. (I would be willing to bet that if I had looked into a mirror, they would have been red as a beet too!) As a matter of fact, after the first minute or so it felt as though I were "somewhere else", just like on LSD, or something. What a trip, man! (But I knew I was still there in my living room reading the Bible.)
The entire "vision" (or whatever it truly was) lasted from about 2-5 minutes or so (I cannot tell). Whether it was phenomena, revelation, or my own mind at work is hard to fathom. Most likely, it was a combination of things.
During that time, the first thing I noticed was a possible parallel between this word "abundance" and our 5th administration, where we see our great riches in Christ. Just to be sure it might truly be something of significance, I remember quickly scanning Genesis One to see if it appeared on any other day. And it didn't!
Then it occurred to me that there are a total of 7 days here in Genesis One, and I had been taught that there are also 7 administrations which cover the entire Bible. What a stretch of the imagination to suppose that each of these days might mysteriously relate to each of the administrations in some kind of perfect order!
As marvelous as this all seemed to me, I still considered I may just be projecting my own thoughts into the Bible, based on some presupposed notion or premise - which is utterly wrong practice while honestly working the scriptures! But because I felt high without drugs and realized that somehow God may be orchestrating all of this, I rather considered it to be an exception to the norm. So I just relaxed and allowed him to "do his thing."
Immediately, dozens of ideas and related verses were streaming through my mind, all connecting up into some wonderful amazing pattern. It was like "sunesis on steroids". The amount of things God can show someone in a moment of time is simply amazing! (He's the master teacher, for sure.)
After a short time the "vision" was over. I had returned from wherever the heck I had been; my eyes instantly felt normal and I was no longer high.
And such began my noble quest to look deeply into this matter: "searching the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11) And I also decided to be kind to myself by rescinding that "self-inflicted punishment" of having to read the whole Bible through again. And from then on, I've never had a problem deciding where to read in the mornings.
Also --- I was no longer distracted during the rest of that PFAL class, for I now had plenty to keep my mind upon - rather than my own "earthly troubles". All of that seemed utterly trivial in comparison to what had been revealed to me. And it didn't bother me much at all when my wife married her new lover soon after that. Amazingly, it was only two months later that I met my present wife. We will celebrate our 25th anniversary next year.
Though I cannot remember all of which had been revealed during those few precious moments, I would be willing to bet that most of it ended up in my book after having thoroughly investigated that "notion" to my own satisfaction. I finally published my findings in January of 2010. Enjoy!
With great anticipation, I am looking forward to your take on it. In the meantime, if you have any questions do feel free to contact me at any time.
SPEC :)/>
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Kit Sober
I had looked previously on the web to see if Rosh Hashana was on September 11, 3 bc, and could not find that information.
During my Rosh Hashana research this year I found a jewish website where I could ask questions, and posed that question, but haven't received an answer.
An interesting bit of information is that the Rosh Hashana Jewish tradition includes that Rosh Hashana is the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve, which makes the birthday of Jesus Christ on this day more intriguing.
This is the website where I was looking: chabad.org
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