I was part of a rather sizable branch in the early 1970's. We used to set up a reel-to-reel tape machine and record the meetings every week....that is, until HQ caught wind of it. After that, we were instructed that, if we wanted to listen to taped teachings, we needed to subscribe to the Sunday Night Service tapes from New Knoxville. $$$
I think it was a control tactic, to get all of us calling in to verbalize our compliance with their policies on a weekly basis. So much of TWI's standard practices are exactly like that. Rote repetition enforcing their structure, hierarchy, and our compliance to it.
I think it was a control tactic, to get all of us calling in to verbalize our compliance with their policies on a weekly basis. So much of TWI's standard practices are exactly like that. Rote repetition enforcing their structure, hierarchy, and our compliance to it.
Possibly.
Then again, hiding the evidence of their activities instead of transparency
If they have to ask that - you have to ask, what do they want to hide?
If it's really "the truth," shouldn't they want it disseminated as widely as possible?
But if it's not "the truth," then they shouldn't be saying it at all.
Just imagine ... being on a Corps night hookup ... and having invited the local church minister to sit in and critique...
Not like you could buy Corps Night tapes (like SNS tapes). So, they weren't concerned about loss of sales revenue - they'd be wanting to stop WC exiting with "their" teachings.
Or, more realistically, they wanted to slander those who had left, and not have "evidence" out there, in case innie Corps were disobediently still in touch with DFAC Corps and could pass on evidence of the slanders to the DFAC corps.
Some truly vile things were said about cast-out Corps, in the name of keeping the household clean. A lawyer for the slandered could get very interested in those comments ...!
I heard that the church of Scientology has their 'auditors' ask people all manner of personal invasive questions and tape record the sessions. Then they blackmail them into 'loyalty' or else the content of the tapes gets played to the wrong people. Wonder if THAT'S how they get rich celebrities to be so committed? Yeah, Ill just BET twi doesn't want recordings of some stuff.
The Corps night when Gere read The Passing of a Patriarch, I was in residence at Gunnison. The voice from HQ told us to turn off the tape recorders and DO NOT take notes. Before the night was over, I swore that I would NEVER obey that instruction again...
What I wonder.. is there anyone here who actually DID record any of these? I mean.. there are no copyright issues or liability or anything, are there? In other words, perhaps one could post some of these insane rants on the internet for all the world to see..
What I wonder.. is there anyone here who actually DID record any of these? I mean.. there are no copyright issues or liability or anything, are there? In other words, perhaps one could post some of these insane rants on the internet for all the world to see..
This may not seem like an "insane rant" by VP, but when you think about it, it's awful. From one of my Corps notebooks.
September 21, 1971
First wave of W.O.W. Ambassadors training
VPW comment while teaching Acts 17: "The organized church will envy and hate you because of your knowledge of The Word and your believing boldness."
Naturally, all these years later, I think the reason for that hate (if there ever was any) was due to many Way followers arrogance about knowing "the accuracy" of The Word. I'm sure many times we came off as know-it-alls. That never helps anyone! And I do think that certainty is one of the biggest problems in any belief system.
I burned all my notes, Corps notes, SNS, those "classes" - everything except my journals. I looked at some of the notes before I burned them. They were painful then, when they were a more or less verbatim record of what was said at Corps Night (woe betide anyone who didn't have a very detailed set of notes!) and they were painful when I looked at them all these years later. The hate emanating from the written words... All I would have kept them for was to use to post here - and I haven't the inclination to rummage through them all to find relevant snippets.
Some of you are very dedicated.
As international Corps, we weren't on hookup but did get the tape every week, which we had to listen to in a formal setting on the proper date (properly dressed just as if for CN in the flesh), take notes, no re-winds, and definitely no copies.
If I'd recorded the tapes... would love to let them go to potential litigants, but otherwise, couldn't bear to listen.
The only reasons, IMO, that they wouldn't want you to record is that (a) what they teach is so off-the-wall they'd make themselves laughing stocks were it to become public; and (b) to avoid any kind of legal proceedings - especially from those whom they slandered so freely. Of which (b) is the real reason, I think.
I burned all my notes, Corps notes, SNS, those "classes" - everything except my journals. I looked at some of the notes before I burned them. They were painful then, when they were a more or less verbatim record of what was said at Corps Night (woe betide anyone who didn't have a very detailed set of notes!) and they were painful when I looked at them all these years later. The hate emanating from the written words... All I would have kept them for was to use to post here - and I haven't the inclination to rummage through them all to find relevant snippets.
Yeah......corps notes. Far away from hq, we had to call in for those corps meetings each week.
One of the corps girls in our city could type about 130-140 words/minute and had notes verbatim
that were distributed to all of us. Our 'notes' could have been considered transcripts.
During those years, martindale made alot of incriminating statements and slanders on corps night.
He also referenced vulgar descriptions of homosexuals and spewed venom to those corps who exited twi.
I sent all those meticulous corps notes to P@ul All3n.......in case he needed specific references
for his (and F3rn's) lawsuit involving martindale's sexual predation. No surprise that this lawsuit
During those years, martindale made alot of incriminating statements and slanders on corps night.
He also referenced vulgar descriptions of homosexuals and spewed venom to those corps who exited twi.
He certainly did those things.
I knew nothing of what activities male homosexuals engage in - but after practically a whole year of CN seemingly devoted to this topic - I "know" far more than anyone could ever want to know. Even, perhaps, some male homosexuals. How come Martindale "knew" so much? Was any of it true? (Too much information. Please don't enlighten me, anyone)
I sent all those meticulous corps notes to P@ul All3n.......in case he needed specific references
for his (and F3rn's) lawsuit involving martindale's sexual predation. No surprise that this lawsuit
was settled out of court.
Good, glad they had some use.
The Allens would have been able to subpoena TWI and demand the tapes of relevant CNs be released (cos you know TWI recorded everything, don't you?!) The judge would have found those ... very ... revealing.
I knew nothing of what activities male homosexuals engage in - but after practically a whole year of CN seemingly devoted to this topic - I "know" far more than anyone could ever want to know. Even, perhaps, some male homosexuals. How come Martindale "knew" so much? Was any of it true? (Too much information. Please don't enlighten me, anyone)
I have no intimate knowledge of how Martindale knew so much about male homosexual activity, but as a detached observer of his overreaction on that subject, I'm reminded of Shakespeare: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
I think it was a control tactic, to get all of us calling in to verbalize our compliance with their policies on a weekly basis. So much of TWI's standard practices are exactly like that. Rote repetition enforcing their structure, hierarchy, and our compliance to it.
Control tactic is right!! I am surprised that so many people fell for that sheet. If they had tried to control me, I would left, no question about that.
lThe thing is, GVC, much of what they did didn't seem like "control" at the time, because those who were "controlled" had been beaten into submission or at least compliance. The control exerted over us was insidious.
It was more overt once one joined the in-rez WC - in fact, we were told it was spiritual bootcamp for three months - but the three months never ended, it just got more and more controlling with so much busywork that there was no time to realise how controlling everything had become. That's the nature of cults.
And unfortunately, like many practices of TWI, it started off (apparently) good and sensible. Some people do have real time management difficulties. They let time drift away and don't achieve what they should - whether it's washing the car, or getting their (paid) job done - because they waste that time watching TV, playing computer games, or watching paint dry. So to have a plan for the day can be quite helpful - probably we all do it naturally to some extent. If you are an employee, your boss may also have a time managed plan for your day. If you're self-employed, you certainly need to manage time, if you want to make a sufficient profit. To review where one actually spent the time and whether it matched the plan can be really valuable.
The same also applies to money management - as a qualified debt adviser, I can tell you a zillion ways people waste money when they're deep in debt because they haven't a clue how to handle money within a budget. I am constantly amazed by people's inventiveness when it comes to how they spend their money on non-essentials when there isn't enough for what they must pay for.
TWI of course took both time and financial management to an extreme. In rez Corps have an allowance monthly, not enough, and it has to cover all incidentals (like mailing letters to spiritual partners) as well as doing laundry, buying books and materials, tithing, etc.
To get everyone to do time management is also useful - we all have a finite number of hours in which to work, eat, play and sleep.
TWI used everything not as a help or guide, but as a big cosh to beat people. One size fits all: so the biggest cosh came out to beat everyone with.
But the big cosh started out as a seeming wise word, then a gentle tap on the shoulder, then graduated to a slap on the wrist, then a slap with a slipper, then a whack with a bamboo cane... you get the idea. It's only if you'd seen the cosh at the beginning and known they planned to use it, that you'd have fled from the control.
As you said, our allowance in the Corps was not enough - made me remember how I couldn't make a copy of my research paper because I didn't have money to use the friggin copier. They charged us to use the copier!!!!
Branch Coordinator: yes (then thinks to himself "though not all are standing corps")
HQ: and you're NOT recording - is that correct?
Branch Coordinator: that is correct (then thinks to himself " Craig hasn't started blabbing yet - so we'll wait to record his bat$hit crazy stuff and technically I'm not in charge of recording tonight, George is.")
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waysider
I was part of a rather sizable branch in the early 1970's. We used to set up a reel-to-reel tape machine and record the meetings every week....that is, until HQ caught wind of it. After that, we were instructed that, if we wanted to listen to taped teachings, we needed to subscribe to the Sunday Night Service tapes from New Knoxville. $$$
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excathedra
actually that's hilarious now
1) How many corps are in attendance?
just me
2) And, only corps are present?
just me
3) And, you're NOT recording is that correct?
hang on, let me ask me
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newlife
I wasn't going to comment, but I can't help myself!!
You are so funny EX!!! :)
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chockfull
I think it was a control tactic, to get all of us calling in to verbalize our compliance with their policies on a weekly basis. So much of TWI's standard practices are exactly like that. Rote repetition enforcing their structure, hierarchy, and our compliance to it.
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WordWolf
Possibly.
Then again, hiding the evidence of their activities instead of transparency
has a proud tradition at twi.
Other Christians might consider that disgraceful.
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Twinky
If they have to ask that - you have to ask, what do they want to hide?
If it's really "the truth," shouldn't they want it disseminated as widely as possible?
But if it's not "the truth," then they shouldn't be saying it at all.
Just imagine ... being on a Corps night hookup ... and having invited the local church minister to sit in and critique...
Not like you could buy Corps Night tapes (like SNS tapes). So, they weren't concerned about loss of sales revenue - they'd be wanting to stop WC exiting with "their" teachings.
Or, more realistically, they wanted to slander those who had left, and not have "evidence" out there, in case innie Corps were disobediently still in touch with DFAC Corps and could pass on evidence of the slanders to the DFAC corps.
Some truly vile things were said about cast-out Corps, in the name of keeping the household clean. A lawyer for the slandered could get very interested in those comments ...!
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excathedra
i've been slandered torn apart killed in my heart for the whole "world" as i knew it to hear
now i think "FECK YOU"
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johniam
I heard that the church of Scientology has their 'auditors' ask people all manner of personal invasive questions and tape record the sessions. Then they blackmail them into 'loyalty' or else the content of the tapes gets played to the wrong people. Wonder if THAT'S how they get rich celebrities to be so committed? Yeah, Ill just BET twi doesn't want recordings of some stuff.
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penworks
Some of us took really good notes.
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Steve Lortz
The Corps night when Gere read The Passing of a Patriarch, I was in residence at Gunnison. The voice from HQ told us to turn off the tape recorders and DO NOT take notes. Before the night was over, I swore that I would NEVER obey that instruction again...
Lovwe,
Steve
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excathedra
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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rascal
Just read them. Thank you for clearing some of these misconceptions up.
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Ham
What I wonder.. is there anyone here who actually DID record any of these? I mean.. there are no copyright issues or liability or anything, are there? In other words, perhaps one could post some of these insane rants on the internet for all the world to see..
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penworks
This may not seem like an "insane rant" by VP, but when you think about it, it's awful. From one of my Corps notebooks.
September 21, 1971
First wave of W.O.W. Ambassadors training
VPW comment while teaching Acts 17: "The organized church will envy and hate you because of your knowledge of The Word and your believing boldness."
Naturally, all these years later, I think the reason for that hate (if there ever was any) was due to many Way followers arrogance about knowing "the accuracy" of The Word. I'm sure many times we came off as know-it-alls. That never helps anyone! And I do think that certainty is one of the biggest problems in any belief system.
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Twinky
Penworks, you still have all that stuff?
I burned all my notes, Corps notes, SNS, those "classes" - everything except my journals. I looked at some of the notes before I burned them. They were painful then, when they were a more or less verbatim record of what was said at Corps Night (woe betide anyone who didn't have a very detailed set of notes!) and they were painful when I looked at them all these years later. The hate emanating from the written words... All I would have kept them for was to use to post here - and I haven't the inclination to rummage through them all to find relevant snippets.
Some of you are very dedicated.
As international Corps, we weren't on hookup but did get the tape every week, which we had to listen to in a formal setting on the proper date (properly dressed just as if for CN in the flesh), take notes, no re-winds, and definitely no copies.
If I'd recorded the tapes... would love to let them go to potential litigants, but otherwise, couldn't bear to listen.
The only reasons, IMO, that they wouldn't want you to record is that (a) what they teach is so off-the-wall they'd make themselves laughing stocks were it to become public; and (b) to avoid any kind of legal proceedings - especially from those whom they slandered so freely. Of which (b) is the real reason, I think.
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skyrider
Yeah......corps notes. Far away from hq, we had to call in for those corps meetings each week.
One of the corps girls in our city could type about 130-140 words/minute and had notes verbatim
that were distributed to all of us. Our 'notes' could have been considered transcripts.
During those years, martindale made alot of incriminating statements and slanders on corps night.
He also referenced vulgar descriptions of homosexuals and spewed venom to those corps who exited twi.
I sent all those meticulous corps notes to P@ul All3n.......in case he needed specific references
for his (and F3rn's) lawsuit involving martindale's sexual predation. No surprise that this lawsuit
was settled out of court.
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Twinky
He certainly did those things.
I knew nothing of what activities male homosexuals engage in - but after practically a whole year of CN seemingly devoted to this topic - I "know" far more than anyone could ever want to know. Even, perhaps, some male homosexuals. How come Martindale "knew" so much? Was any of it true? (Too much information. Please don't enlighten me, anyone)
Good, glad they had some use.
The Allens would have been able to subpoena TWI and demand the tapes of relevant CNs be released (cos you know TWI recorded everything, don't you?!) The judge would have found those ... very ... revealing.
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OperaBuff
I have no intimate knowledge of how Martindale knew so much about male homosexual activity, but as a detached observer of his overreaction on that subject, I'm reminded of Shakespeare: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
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excathedra
that lady did protest too much - can't tell if it was because of himself or the mrs. or both
what a f'ing jack footassand another thing - having people dress up and do all that nonsense to get on the phone makes me SICK
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penworks
Kept it for the future possibility of writing a book ....
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Grace Valerie Claire
Control tactic is right!! I am surprised that so many people fell for that sheet. If they had tried to control me, I would left, no question about that.
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Twinky
lThe thing is, GVC, much of what they did didn't seem like "control" at the time, because those who were "controlled" had been beaten into submission or at least compliance. The control exerted over us was insidious.
It was more overt once one joined the in-rez WC - in fact, we were told it was spiritual bootcamp for three months - but the three months never ended, it just got more and more controlling with so much busywork that there was no time to realise how controlling everything had become. That's the nature of cults.
And unfortunately, like many practices of TWI, it started off (apparently) good and sensible. Some people do have real time management difficulties. They let time drift away and don't achieve what they should - whether it's washing the car, or getting their (paid) job done - because they waste that time watching TV, playing computer games, or watching paint dry. So to have a plan for the day can be quite helpful - probably we all do it naturally to some extent. If you are an employee, your boss may also have a time managed plan for your day. If you're self-employed, you certainly need to manage time, if you want to make a sufficient profit. To review where one actually spent the time and whether it matched the plan can be really valuable.
The same also applies to money management - as a qualified debt adviser, I can tell you a zillion ways people waste money when they're deep in debt because they haven't a clue how to handle money within a budget. I am constantly amazed by people's inventiveness when it comes to how they spend their money on non-essentials when there isn't enough for what they must pay for.
TWI of course took both time and financial management to an extreme. In rez Corps have an allowance monthly, not enough, and it has to cover all incidentals (like mailing letters to spiritual partners) as well as doing laundry, buying books and materials, tithing, etc.
To get everyone to do time management is also useful - we all have a finite number of hours in which to work, eat, play and sleep.
TWI used everything not as a help or guide, but as a big cosh to beat people. One size fits all: so the biggest cosh came out to beat everyone with.
But the big cosh started out as a seeming wise word, then a gentle tap on the shoulder, then graduated to a slap on the wrist, then a slap with a slipper, then a whack with a bamboo cane... you get the idea. It's only if you'd seen the cosh at the beginning and known they planned to use it, that you'd have fled from the control.
Edited by Twinky?
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outandabout
As you said, our allowance in the Corps was not enough - made me remember how I couldn't make a copy of my research paper because I didn't have money to use the friggin copier. They charged us to use the copier!!!!
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T-Bone
HQ: how many corps are in attendance ?
Branch Coordinator: ten
HQ: and only corps are present?
Branch Coordinator: yes (then thinks to himself "though not all are standing corps")
HQ: and you're NOT recording - is that correct?
Branch Coordinator: that is correct (then thinks to himself " Craig hasn't started blabbing yet - so we'll wait to record his bat$hit crazy stuff and technically I'm not in charge of recording tonight, George is.")
Clarity and hilarity
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