How Can They Still.....?

[excathedra]

giant mwah linzee i love you

[Rocky]

My hunch about the topic of this thread: sense of belonging. Feeling as though one belongs to a team that is committed to a higher purpose or goal

is a powerful motivator. That's why they use expressions suggesting those who have remained are part of some special "remnant."

[socks]

True about leadership, LZ.

Course Jess's example never permeated the Corps leadership. He kept his own counsel. Craig, Lynn, Wren, those guys who coordinated the WC campuses were all motor mouths. It was peat and repeat with a lot of verbatim recitation and very little processing going on - result: shallow thinking, lack of depth. I never considered them "leaders" in the real sense of the word.

Where Jess took time to think and respond and actually carry on conversations with us, those guys shot off quick answers, witty bs and - IMO of course but I'm not alone - simply did not give any impression of putting in the time or effort that what they were saying was any more than what they'd heard - and was not what they'd lived. They were simply too interested in "teaching" and activities to build their businesses. Jess wasn't like that but he didn't influence on a large scale by virtue of how he lived and worked. He was a one on one kind of guy.

[hiway29]

I have one memory of George Jess. I don't recall why I was at HQ, but found myself packing books to be shipped in the OSC building. I don't remember the book-maybe JC Our Passover-and I don't know why he was there, but George Jess was packing books in boxes. I only recall the evening, because I was fascinated with how into it he was, working hard, attention to detail, etc, and looking as if he was enjoying himself the entire time. I was impressed. I just don't know what either he or I were doing there.

[excathedra]

wierwille lynn martindale wren anderson jenkinson so many of them really thought more of themselves than the little sheep (like me)

[waysider]

Have you ever noticed that some of the nicest people you encountered during your Way involvement seldom get mentioned by name here? That's rather telling, in my opinion.

Edited September 7, 2012 by waysider

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 9/3/2012 at 3:20 AM, Patriot said:

Just for this post....

Let's set aside the argument whether TWI was legit or corrupt from the beginning.

My deep confusion is with many of the very long-standing staff or leaders in TWI today.

Let's take it from, say the 70's, 80's and 90's.

They saw the way TWI was in the past. Huge groups of people. Huge events. Huge WOW and

Corps training groups. Classes all over. Secular recognition (although not usually positive)

as a rapidly growing ministry (cult). Every state having work in it. Huge international and

military outreach works. Generally speaking, a lot of 'stuff' going on.

To say that things today are a shadow of what they once were is a huge overstatement. I'm pretty sure

that even those TWI long-time insiders would agree. So what keeps them there? Are the same guys playing

piano & organ? Same angry guy yelling at everyone doing AV? Do they not remember the past 'glory' and honestly

wonder 'why not now?' What is it they 'really' think?

So, is it

 

• The Kool-Aid effect has never worn off?
• They are living in fear of leaving 'the true household'?
• They are afraid of leaving the lifestyle they are accustomed to (can't be the pay)?
• They are afraid of losing the status, position, prestige that they now have (can't be the pay)?
• They really believe the apparent 'dry spell' will eventually subside, and the former 'glory will return?
• They are afraid of leaving what they are used to, and for some, being paid for, and not knowing what to do for a job?

 

So, in essence, they've seen the difference between before, and current. What are their thoughts?

Anyone? Anyone? Buller?

Patriot, good post.  Why do people stay in the Way??  I think it might be fear. They might be afraid of having to deal with the "real world," and it's problems.  Or perhaps some of them, want to be the head of TWI, with all that it entails.  I really have no idea why people stay with TWI.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 9/3/2012 at 8:36 AM, Linda Z said:

IMO, that's too pat an answer.

I think it's all of the above possible reasons you gave, Patriot. Different people have different reasons. A few of them might have even bought into the "we're the faithful remnant" crap that RFR has peddled.

Since you referred to the low pay a couple times, I assume you're talking about people at HQ. (As for the person sitting in someone's living room studying the Bible and singing songs, I still run into people who are "out" but in a splinter group who don't [or won't] believe bad things about twi or VPW because they don't want to "think evil.")

I left HQ staff in early spring of 1986. I resigned, and I was never so happy to leave a place in my life. I hated the mandatory meetings, Rosalie's micromanaging, the rampant hypocrisy, etc. I never regretted getting out of there.

In contrast, a couple years later, when I had severed my ties with twi completely, I had a long talk with someone who was still "in," a friend who was a member of the president's cabinet and had held very high positions. He was fully aware at how flocked up things were and what Rosalie was like. But he, who was younger than I was and better educated and better equipped to change careers, said, "If I left, how would I support my wife and child?" I was astounded. It was the fear in the heart of that man!

Re: the low pay: If you're debt-free and living in that neck of the woods, you don't need much money to live comfortably. My rent in NK was very reasonable for a nice apartment, and my utilities were next to nothing. Lunch in the OSC was mandatory (gag, gag), so I only had to buy food for 2 meals a day.

For people approaching retirement age, as the older staffers must be, if they've stuck it out this long they probably think it's an okay gig. But they'd better not get sick, or they'll become someone else's "burden," and off they'll be sent with no retirement fund, no social security check, nada.

For those who have the type of personality that allows them to tolerate mandatory meetings and syrupy-sweet smiles from a "president" whose grins hide daggers, and all the other BS, twi is just the place. God bless 'em. All those things gave me a headache and a heartache.

Linda Z, I love your posts!  They are well-written, and they make me think.  I can't imagine hitting retirement age with zilch; I am 60, and live on a modest Disability Check every month.  In a few years, I plan on applying for SS.  My medical needs are covered by the DCVAMC.  Linda, I can't imagine what many of the long-term Way People, are going to do once they they retire.  I started thinking about retirement in my 20's; that was one of the reasons I joined the Navy.  I think many of them will be f-ed when they leave Way World. 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 9/3/2012 at 10:36 AM, Rejoice said:

That is a very valid fear. Many Americans are already facing this problem right now, especially those approaching retirement age but have been laid off with no pension or medical insurance. Some have lost housing too. I know three former coworkers who at 60 with a ton of experience and education cannot find any employment beyond part time retail jobs. Often they've been passed over for much younger people who can stand for hours and lift 50-pound boxes. And they are praying Christians, but the answers are slow in coming.

Rejoice, how sad!!  That could have been me, or any of us.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 9/3/2012 at 5:44 PM, JavaJane said:

That whole "positive believing" doctrine really screws with your sense of reality when practiced for a lifetime.

JJ, you are so right!!

[T-Bone]

On 9/3/2012 at 7:36 AM, Linda Z said:

IMO, that's too pat an answer.

I think it's all of the above possible reasons you gave, Patriot. Different people have different reasons. A few of them might have even bought into the "we're the faithful remnant" crap that RFR has peddled.

Since you referred to the low pay a couple times, I assume you're talking about people at HQ. (As for the person sitting in someone's living room studying the Bible and singing songs, I still run into people who are "out" but in a splinter group who don't [or won't] believe bad things about twi or VPW because they don't want to "think evil.")

I left HQ staff in early spring of 1986. I resigned, and I was never so happy to leave a place in my life. I hated the mandatory meetings, Rosalie's micromanaging, the rampant hypocrisy, etc. I never regretted getting out of there.

In contrast, a couple years later, when I had severed my ties with twi completely, I had a long talk with someone who was still "in," a friend who was a member of the president's cabinet and had held very high positions. He was fully aware at how flocked up things were and what Rosalie was like. But he, who was younger than I was and better educated and better equipped to change careers, said, "If I left, how would I support my wife and child?" I was astounded. It was the fear in the heart of that man!

Re: the low pay: If you're debt-free and living in that neck of the woods, you don't need much money to live comfortably. My rent in NK was very reasonable for a nice apartment, and my utilities were next to nothing. Lunch in the OSC was mandatory (gag, gag), so I only had to buy food for 2 meals a day.

For people approaching retirement age, as the older staffers must be, if they've stuck it out this long they probably think it's an okay gig. But they'd better not get sick, or they'll become someone else's "burden," and off they'll be sent with no retirement fund, no social security check, nada.

For those who have the type of personality that allows them to tolerate mandatory meetings and syrupy-sweet smiles from a "president" whose grins hide daggers, and all the other BS, twi is just the place. God bless 'em. All those things gave me a headache and a heartache.

 

On 9/4/2012 at 5:57 PM, socks said:

Staff positions/jobs at the Way in the 60's were much different than they evolved into later -

Families like the Randalls, the Allens, Owens - they weren't running down to the Lima Mall every night to witness to people and sign 'em up for PFAL. They lived on the farm there or near by and came in every morning. It was a job, with hours, weekdays and weekends. There was a larger commitment of time than a 40 hour work week yes but they had a a private life and a "work life". They worked there, lived there in most cases and came and went on the property 24/7.

Late 60's and most of the 70's that was still true - the "Staff" didn't go to meetings every night, all weekend. As the size of the operation expanded people lived locally and had private and work lives.

You didn't hire on at the Way unless you wanted to be involved in the effort more than a punch in and out 40 hour week. You wouldn't work there unless you actually wanted to do other things - help with classes, events, etc. However, you lived and worked and had your family with some distinctions between the two.

That obviously changed over time, VPW intended to develop the mish mash of "Corps/Staff" employees he eventually assembled - which really got to be a commitment of all of one's time and resources, all the time.

He had a way of separating out the long tenured staffers from the flow of those coming in and out in the Way Corps, if you went to work there in residence or after, fine if not you probably weren't going to have much contact with them. Frankly I think it was to keep the oldies happy, he liked them and didn't want to upset the apple cart, at least for a few years there, but it was a very small group of staffers that met that criteria.

Only a certain kind of person is going to do that for their whole lives. Oldsters, like Joe and Linda C maintain a lifestyle that's blended but that revolves around ministry activities. That's what they want to do, that's their lifestyle. (or was - just as example - for decades).

It's possible to be committed to goals and ideals without being in the same place, doing the same things with the same people, everyday of the week. Some people will have to do that, some of the time but for an entire lifetime? I believe it's healthier for everyone involved to have change and diversity.

I'd assume that anyone who's gone there and been there for any length of time is someone who wants that lifestyle of total immersion. It's not for everyone, under the best of circumstances let alone those of the Way's.

I've never been on staff or had a paid position with the way international - but considering the practical aspect alone - I can relate to why some staffers may have stuck around for so long.

 

I mean - setting aside all the manipulative entanglements that cults create to enslave followers - I think a strong work ethic may account for "career" longevity with some folks. I think a lot of us in the corps had that - you know the "work is its own reward, it builds character " type of thing. That's not a bad thing either....of course, being financially compensated for that is cool too!

 

Combine that with being idealistic (as so many of us were) and grateful to have a paying job (no matter how meager the paycheck) - cuz that's better than no job....and I do tend to think something is better than nothing, anyway.

 

Besides job-hunting is scary to me - and even though folks say there's less financial pressure to find a new job if you already have a job (even if it's a sucky job) - I get nervous anticipating interviews and fret over revising my resume as if it were a corps research paper. And I worry if there will be a well-stocked vending machine in the break room - by well-stocked I mean lots of salty items and snacks with peanut butter in 'em.   ...I have a knack for getting real comfortable in my current job. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by T-Bone
Revising my resume ;)