Actually I think it's about the first HONEST thing he's said. All that waffle, all those words ... boils down to this.
Giving allows you to see how God will give to you (2 Cor. 9:6–10). If TLTLF had the financial resources, we could reach countless people all over the world with God’s Truth.
It doesn't really work like that, John. It's not, you tithe and God give you ten times back. Or whatever you seem to think.
You don't need financial resources, you need spiritual resources. You need to LIVE it. And then, you can reach "countless people." It's the lifestyle of GIVING not the lifestyle of GRASPING that wins hearts and minds.
"Giving allows you to see how God will give to you (2 Cor. 9:6–10). If TLTF had the financial resources, we could reach countless people all over the world with God’s Truth."
If TLTF had "God's Truth" to reach people with, the Lord would see to it that Lynn had ALL the resources he needed to reach the people God wants Lynn to reach.
Unfortunately, all Lynn has is "the Administration of the Sacred Secret," Wierwille's botched dispensationalism, the Administration of the License to Sin!
I'm confronting the decision of whether or not to pursue the thesis rather than the non-thesis track to my masters in Theological Studies. If I DO decide to write a thesis, it's going to be a hell of a lot of work, researching to see what other people have already come up with, developing original thoughts on my topic, and articulating those thoughts in an acceptably scholarly manner.
It seems to me that TWI's classes and programs were the lazy scholars' way. All we had to do was passively receive what Wierwille dished out, and parrot it back. Those who showed some talent in parroting PFAL back were highly regarded, and came to view themselves as masters without ever having done the hard work that is necessary for true mastery.
"Giving allows you to see how God will give to you (2 Cor. 9:6–10). If TLTF had the financial resources, we could reach countless people all over the world with God’s Truth."
If TLTF had "God's Truth" to reach people with, the Lord would see to it that Lynn had ALL the resources he needed to reach the people God wants Lynn to reach.
Unfortunately, all Lynn has is "the Administration of the Sacred Secret," Wierwille's botched dispensationalism, the Administration of the License to Sin!
I'm confronting the decision of whether or not to pursue the thesis rather than the non-thesis track to my masters in Theological Studies. If I DO decide to write a thesis, it's going to be a hell of a lot of work, researching to see what other people have already come up with, developing original thoughts on my topic, and articulating those thoughts in an acceptably scholarly manner.
It seems to me that TWI's classes and programs were the lazy scholars' way. All we had to do was passively receive what Wierwille dished out, and parrot it back. Those who showed some talent in parroting PFAL back were highly regarded, and came to view themselves as masters without ever having done the hard work that is necessary for true mastery.
Love,
Steve
What's it been? A little over 5 months since I posted this?
Last Thursday, I had an appointment with my thesis adviser. I showed him a one page (12 pt type, double-spaced, one inch margins) description of what I want to do (the main points of my interpretation of Acts 2). He decided it would fall into the category of "Biblical Studies." Therefore, I need to complete a year's worth of Old Testament studies, and after that, another year's worth of New Testament studies, before I can even begin to write. ( I have already been reading and surveying possible source material). After I start writing, in the fall of 2015, I will have three semesters (not counting summer breaks) to complete the writing. That means I will finish my genuine masters thesis in December, 2016.
This is not unusual. It's just the ordinary amount of work a person needs to do to become recognized as a bona fide master, qualified to teach.
Taking PFAL in all its forms hundreds of times,and running the Corps program at Emporia for a few years, doesn't qualify ANYBODY to teach...
This is not unusual. It's just the ordinary amount of work a person needs to do to become recognized as a bona fide master, qualified to teach.
Taking PFAL in all its forms hundreds of times,and running the Corps program at Emporia for a few years, doesn't qualify ANYBODY to teach...
Personally Steve, you can study, take classes, jump up and down, read books, hold you breath, and even do all that all at once, and still not be qualified to teach in someone's book.. But looking at the disciples lives back in the first century.. Or the prophets of old. Or the disciples of old. Yeah, really, it's not about being qualified. For teaching, it's really only about having that which will genuinely help and being willing to give that help..
Worldly acclamations and qualifications, whether from "godly" groups or "cults", makes no difference.. What matters rather is whether we allow our lights to shine in this world.. That they may see our GOOD WORKS, and glorify our Father in heaven.. Not that they may hear our wondrous "qualified" teachings approved by ^%$%^$^*....
This message was neither approved by the council of Nicea or any other group, therefore I take full responsibility.
You know, TrustAndObey, when I originally decided to get a masters degree, it wasn't because I wanted to prove anything in theology. It was because I wanted to be hirable for a teaching position. I had taught Humane Letters in a school that was just starting up, but as the school grew, the original faculty was gradually replaced by people who had bona fide masters degrees in their fields.
I first looked into getting a masters degree in education, but the adviser told me that it wouldn't do me much good. Wherever I looked for a job, there would be hundreds of younger applicants with more academic credentials and more experience than I would have, and the opportunities open to me wouldn't be worth the number of hoops I'd have to jump through.
So I looked into the School of Theology. A masters degree would qualify me to teach, and if I studied Greek, it would give me a subject that would be in demand in the kinds of schools I would like to teach at (classical).
So, for my first year at the SOT, I was studying on the non-thesis track. Then I took a remote-learning class taught by Walter C. Kaiser who used a "promise-plan" as his framework for organizing the material of the Bible, instead of dispensationalism or covenant theology. It seemed to me there was a hole big enough to drive a truck through in his thinking regarding the day of Pentecost. Kaiser said words to the effect, "Here in Acts 1 we have an arrow pointing forward, and over here in I Corinthians we have an arrow pointing backwards, and something happened in between." But he never addressed exactly what that thing was.
Now, back when I was flushing my thinking of Wierwille's dispensationalism in the mid- to late-'90s, I had to do a lot of thinking about Pentecost. In PFAL, Wierwille said Peter could not have meant "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Peter must have meant this is LIKE that which was spoken by the prophet Joel, because, according to Wierwille, there could be NO prophecies from the Old Testament or from the Gospels regarding the administration of the mystery, or as Lynn & co. like to put it, The Administration of the Sacred Secret! So back then, I started studying all the OT prophecies (or promises, if you will) that came to pass on the day of Pentecost.
When I heard Kaiser's words, I knew that I would have to write up the things I had learned about Pentecost. So I set the process in motion last fall to switch from the non-thesis to the thesis track. This past week, I had brought my thinking to the point where I could present a preliminary proposal to my thesis advisor, and we began planning the process I would need to go though.
There's nothing unusual about the process. It's the same process every student who wants to write a thesis goes through. The process is in place so that other schools, where a student might go to pursue further masters degrees or a doctorate (which I definitely will NOT do), or school boards that might want to hire a person, will be assured of the quality of the student's work.
So there it is in a nutshell, if you want somebody to pay you a check to teach, you have to be reliably credentialed. Otherwise, you have to rely on what you can convince people they should put in your coffee can, and pray for God to send you billionaires... BORED BILLIONAIRES... who will be "blessed" by the errors you unwittingly teach.
....."and pray for God to send you billionaires... BORED BILLIONAIRES... who will be "blessed" by the errors you unwittingly teach."
Maybe not even 'unwittingly'......Surely, those jokers over at V2P2's truck patch are aware of the error they propound.....and, yet, they continue to teach it.
You know, TrustAndObey, when I originally decided to get a masters degree, it wasn't because I wanted to prove anything in theology. It was because I wanted to be hirable for a teaching position.
Steve, I understand what you wrote concerning the 'why' of you doing what you're doing... And that is not what I take offense at..
Rather it's "in my view" the condescension towards Lynn AT THE SAME TIME of what looks to me of puffing your own "qualifications" up..
Now, I'd be the first to disagree with Lynn and co, and VP and co.. And against any in Christendom concerning dispensationalism, fundamentalism, pneumatiology concerning the h.s., and the common Christian hierarchy.. I take offense at Lynn's prayers for millionaires and what appears to me as an egotistical attitude that cares not for those he should be serving not raking in the money from.
But it's when what looks to me as someone adding to their own stature that just doesn't sit well with me.. So, that is the reason I wrote what I wrote. If I'm wrong in what I saw, I apologize.
I think that's great you enjoy being a teacher. Willing to sacrifice your time to become qualified in their eyes to continue it. But none of these things makes you or I or anyone better than even Mr Lynn whom thinks his "One Day with the Creator" class that is being released in the next week or so (8th session is on YouTube now) is actually some great theological masterpiece. It is all dung to me. And I'd much rather lift up than put down, love than chastise, help than cast away. And hopefully that will be all that I say about this..
I think John is not unlike the young pencil salesman.. "how much are your pencils".. "well, they are $1,000,000.00". "that's a lot for a pencil, isn't it?".. "well.. I only need to sell one.."
Bored billionaires will (presumably) not miss the money.
JAL's plea was (presumably) an attempt at humor.
Why care?
I don't know because after I disconnected in 2005, and experienced the first relief I've felt in years, I've ceased to care about what it did to me emotionally. I was just glad to be finally really free and relatively unscathed.
So-called Christian organizations led by severely character disordered people and followed by earnest fools. (This is not a theological position; merely an observation of behavior that, in my opinion, doesn't line up with commonly understood Christian practices)
If, after looking into an organization, you continue to follow people whom others describe as character disordered, then association becomes a choice. In my world, outcomes are determined by choices. One of the choices I've made is to not listen to what people say, but watch what they do. I avoid what I believe to be character disordered people and don't spend time wondering why they're that way. I quit reading the Bible as if it were a secret decoder ring. Heck, I quit reading the Bible because I couldn't read it without picking it apart. It simply isn't the polished, perfect piece of work it's made out to be - unless you approach it with that presumption and spend all your time trying to stuff it into that box.
I do, however, care about the kids who are raised in the dysfunctional hot mess. And I honestly don't know what to do about that.
Bored billionaires will (presumably) not miss the money.
The problem with bored billionaires (like for example Bill Gates) is that they still have the same acumen that they used in business to make the billion now that they are dedicated to philanthropy. So they are pretty adept at weeding out the hucksters.
So if John Lynn wants Bill Gates money, then all he has to do is convince the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the selection committee there that giving money to John is a better idea than say, giving it to AIDS research to help end the epidemic in Africa.
In other words, it looks like John Lynn is now on his 3rd failed or failing business model.
But on the other hand Tzaia, your method of knowing people by their fruit seems pretty sound. :)
Last Thursday, I had an appointment with my thesis adviser. I showed him a one page (12 pt type, double-spaced, one inch margins) description of what I want to do (the main points of my interpretation of Acts 2). He decided it would fall into the category of "Biblical Studies." Therefore, I need to complete a year's worth of Old Testament studies, and after that, another year's worth of New Testament studies, before I can even begin to write. ( I have already been reading and surveying possible source material). After I start writing, in the fall of 2015, I will have three semesters (not counting summer breaks) to complete the writing. That means I will finish my genuine masters thesis in December, 2016.
You know Steve, what's inspiring to me about this is your decision to put in the work and develop a voice. The route of publishing a thesis will hone that voice. I don't think you can skip that work. Too bad VPW didn't learn that lesson at a young age.
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Steve Lortz
...bored billionaires... BORED BILLIONAIRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is this what Lynn perceives the gospel to be????????
ENTERTAINMENT???????????????????????????????
Love,
Steve
"So first dig into our work and see what it does for you. If it touches your heart, please pass it on..."
Maybe that's where your problem is, John. Maybe your work doesn't do anything for anybody, except of course, for yourself.
Love,
Steve
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Rejoice
Good heavens, he is so STUCK IN HIS OWN HEAD that he is unable to perceive reality and facts. :wacko:
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Twinky
Actually I think it's about the first HONEST thing he's said. All that waffle, all those words ... boils down to this.
It doesn't really work like that, John. It's not, you tithe and God give you ten times back. Or whatever you seem to think.
You don't need financial resources, you need spiritual resources. You need to LIVE it. And then, you can reach "countless people." It's the lifestyle of GIVING not the lifestyle of GRASPING that wins hearts and minds.
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Steve Lortz
"Giving allows you to see how God will give to you (2 Cor. 9:6–10). If TLTF had the financial resources, we could reach countless people all over the world with God’s Truth."
If TLTF had "God's Truth" to reach people with, the Lord would see to it that Lynn had ALL the resources he needed to reach the people God wants Lynn to reach.
Unfortunately, all Lynn has is "the Administration of the Sacred Secret," Wierwille's botched dispensationalism, the Administration of the License to Sin!
I'm confronting the decision of whether or not to pursue the thesis rather than the non-thesis track to my masters in Theological Studies. If I DO decide to write a thesis, it's going to be a hell of a lot of work, researching to see what other people have already come up with, developing original thoughts on my topic, and articulating those thoughts in an acceptably scholarly manner.
It seems to me that TWI's classes and programs were the lazy scholars' way. All we had to do was passively receive what Wierwille dished out, and parrot it back. Those who showed some talent in parroting PFAL back were highly regarded, and came to view themselves as masters without ever having done the hard work that is necessary for true mastery.
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
What's it been? A little over 5 months since I posted this?
Last Thursday, I had an appointment with my thesis adviser. I showed him a one page (12 pt type, double-spaced, one inch margins) description of what I want to do (the main points of my interpretation of Acts 2). He decided it would fall into the category of "Biblical Studies." Therefore, I need to complete a year's worth of Old Testament studies, and after that, another year's worth of New Testament studies, before I can even begin to write. ( I have already been reading and surveying possible source material). After I start writing, in the fall of 2015, I will have three semesters (not counting summer breaks) to complete the writing. That means I will finish my genuine masters thesis in December, 2016.
This is not unusual. It's just the ordinary amount of work a person needs to do to become recognized as a bona fide master, qualified to teach.
Taking PFAL in all its forms hundreds of times,and running the Corps program at Emporia for a few years, doesn't qualify ANYBODY to teach...
Love,
Steve
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TrustAndObey
Personally Steve, you can study, take classes, jump up and down, read books, hold you breath, and even do all that all at once, and still not be qualified to teach in someone's book.. But looking at the disciples lives back in the first century.. Or the prophets of old. Or the disciples of old. Yeah, really, it's not about being qualified. For teaching, it's really only about having that which will genuinely help and being willing to give that help..
Worldly acclamations and qualifications, whether from "godly" groups or "cults", makes no difference.. What matters rather is whether we allow our lights to shine in this world.. That they may see our GOOD WORKS, and glorify our Father in heaven.. Not that they may hear our wondrous "qualified" teachings approved by ^%$%^$^*....
This message was neither approved by the council of Nicea or any other group, therefore I take full responsibility.
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Steve Lortz
You know, TrustAndObey, when I originally decided to get a masters degree, it wasn't because I wanted to prove anything in theology. It was because I wanted to be hirable for a teaching position. I had taught Humane Letters in a school that was just starting up, but as the school grew, the original faculty was gradually replaced by people who had bona fide masters degrees in their fields.
I first looked into getting a masters degree in education, but the adviser told me that it wouldn't do me much good. Wherever I looked for a job, there would be hundreds of younger applicants with more academic credentials and more experience than I would have, and the opportunities open to me wouldn't be worth the number of hoops I'd have to jump through.
So I looked into the School of Theology. A masters degree would qualify me to teach, and if I studied Greek, it would give me a subject that would be in demand in the kinds of schools I would like to teach at (classical).
So, for my first year at the SOT, I was studying on the non-thesis track. Then I took a remote-learning class taught by Walter C. Kaiser who used a "promise-plan" as his framework for organizing the material of the Bible, instead of dispensationalism or covenant theology. It seemed to me there was a hole big enough to drive a truck through in his thinking regarding the day of Pentecost. Kaiser said words to the effect, "Here in Acts 1 we have an arrow pointing forward, and over here in I Corinthians we have an arrow pointing backwards, and something happened in between." But he never addressed exactly what that thing was.
Now, back when I was flushing my thinking of Wierwille's dispensationalism in the mid- to late-'90s, I had to do a lot of thinking about Pentecost. In PFAL, Wierwille said Peter could not have meant "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Peter must have meant this is LIKE that which was spoken by the prophet Joel, because, according to Wierwille, there could be NO prophecies from the Old Testament or from the Gospels regarding the administration of the mystery, or as Lynn & co. like to put it, The Administration of the Sacred Secret! So back then, I started studying all the OT prophecies (or promises, if you will) that came to pass on the day of Pentecost.
When I heard Kaiser's words, I knew that I would have to write up the things I had learned about Pentecost. So I set the process in motion last fall to switch from the non-thesis to the thesis track. This past week, I had brought my thinking to the point where I could present a preliminary proposal to my thesis advisor, and we began planning the process I would need to go though.
There's nothing unusual about the process. It's the same process every student who wants to write a thesis goes through. The process is in place so that other schools, where a student might go to pursue further masters degrees or a doctorate (which I definitely will NOT do), or school boards that might want to hire a person, will be assured of the quality of the student's work.
So there it is in a nutshell, if you want somebody to pay you a check to teach, you have to be reliably credentialed. Otherwise, you have to rely on what you can convince people they should put in your coffee can, and pray for God to send you billionaires... BORED BILLIONAIRES... who will be "blessed" by the errors you unwittingly teach.
Love,
Steve
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waysider
....."and pray for God to send you billionaires... BORED BILLIONAIRES... who will be "blessed" by the errors you unwittingly teach."
Maybe not even 'unwittingly'......Surely, those jokers over at V2P2's truck patch are aware of the error they propound.....and, yet, they continue to teach it.
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TrustAndObey
Steve, I understand what you wrote concerning the 'why' of you doing what you're doing... And that is not what I take offense at..
Rather it's "in my view" the condescension towards Lynn AT THE SAME TIME of what looks to me of puffing your own "qualifications" up..
Now, I'd be the first to disagree with Lynn and co, and VP and co.. And against any in Christendom concerning dispensationalism, fundamentalism, pneumatiology concerning the h.s., and the common Christian hierarchy.. I take offense at Lynn's prayers for millionaires and what appears to me as an egotistical attitude that cares not for those he should be serving not raking in the money from.
But it's when what looks to me as someone adding to their own stature that just doesn't sit well with me.. So, that is the reason I wrote what I wrote. If I'm wrong in what I saw, I apologize.
I think that's great you enjoy being a teacher. Willing to sacrifice your time to become qualified in their eyes to continue it. But none of these things makes you or I or anyone better than even Mr Lynn whom thinks his "One Day with the Creator" class that is being released in the next week or so (8th session is on YouTube now) is actually some great theological masterpiece. It is all dung to me. And I'd much rather lift up than put down, love than chastise, help than cast away. And hopefully that will be all that I say about this..
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Ham
I think John is not unlike the young pencil salesman.. "how much are your pencils".. "well, they are $1,000,000.00". "that's a lot for a pencil, isn't it?".. "well.. I only need to sell one.."
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Ham
yeah.. its kinda like religion, and kinda like politics.. sell you agenda to One Unassuming, Ignorant but Rich soul..
far more lucky than getting a three point shot, eh, John?
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Tzaia
And it's all so very...sad.
Bored billionaires will (presumably) not miss the money.
JAL's plea was (presumably) an attempt at humor.
Why care?
I don't know because after I disconnected in 2005, and experienced the first relief I've felt in years, I've ceased to care about what it did to me emotionally. I was just glad to be finally really free and relatively unscathed.
So-called Christian organizations led by severely character disordered people and followed by earnest fools. (This is not a theological position; merely an observation of behavior that, in my opinion, doesn't line up with commonly understood Christian practices)
If, after looking into an organization, you continue to follow people whom others describe as character disordered, then association becomes a choice. In my world, outcomes are determined by choices. One of the choices I've made is to not listen to what people say, but watch what they do. I avoid what I believe to be character disordered people and don't spend time wondering why they're that way. I quit reading the Bible as if it were a secret decoder ring. Heck, I quit reading the Bible because I couldn't read it without picking it apart. It simply isn't the polished, perfect piece of work it's made out to be - unless you approach it with that presumption and spend all your time trying to stuff it into that box.
I do, however, care about the kids who are raised in the dysfunctional hot mess. And I honestly don't know what to do about that.
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chockfull
The problem with bored billionaires (like for example Bill Gates) is that they still have the same acumen that they used in business to make the billion now that they are dedicated to philanthropy. So they are pretty adept at weeding out the hucksters.
So if John Lynn wants Bill Gates money, then all he has to do is convince the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the selection committee there that giving money to John is a better idea than say, giving it to AIDS research to help end the epidemic in Africa.
In other words, it looks like John Lynn is now on his 3rd failed or failing business model.
But on the other hand Tzaia, your method of knowing people by their fruit seems pretty sound. :)
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chockfull
You know Steve, what's inspiring to me about this is your decision to put in the work and develop a voice. The route of publishing a thesis will hone that voice. I don't think you can skip that work. Too bad VPW didn't learn that lesson at a young age.
So congratulations on this. It is inspiring.
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