The Hayflick Limit has nothing to do with contaminated gene pools, dominant/recessive traits, evil behavior or any such thing. It's simply the result of an inherent characteristic of human DNA. Cells have a finite number of times they can reproduce. When they reach that limit, they die. Think of it as being like a battery that has a predetermined number of recharges assigned to it. THIS article, though rather basic, offers some insight into the process.
So perhaps being cut off from the "tree of life" (whether literal or figurative) deprives cells of some life sustaining substance. The original superfood? I dunno, just a thought. Not to set off a doctrinal flame war or anything. :unsure:
So perhaps being cut off from the "tree of life" (whether literal or figurative) deprives cells of some life sustaining substance. The original superfood? I dunno, just a thought. Not to set off a doctrinal flame war or anything. :unsure:
I think we'll all learn a lot of interesting things in the resurrection. The continuity of our current lives doesn't depend on all our cells living for our entire lifetimes. The continuity of our consciousness may have something to do with our nerve cells not reproducing. A lot of food for thought...
I think we'll all learn a lot of interesting things in the resurrection.
I speculate from time to time. But I have also developed the belief that if it was important to fellowship with God he would have included the information in his Word. Otherwise, we can speculate but will never know until it's revealed at a later date.
Now, TWI took speculation to the n'th degree and called it research. Believing to live forever comes to mind. So does Eve having sex with the devil as the first sin of mankind. There are other fantasy island type beliefs held as proven ministry research. Though Eve and Lucifer's illicit love affair have been silently stripped out of the FNC. Do they believe it's wrong? They will neve admit it and we will never know.
Wierwilles, father and son, both smoked heavily. I remember being told in my early days that my believing could overcome the natural tendency of the body to develop diseases as a result of cigarette smoking.
Can you imagine how crowded the planet would be if people could really believe to live forever? Yikes!
Having seen how frail my dad became before his death, one month short of his 92nd birthday, I have no desire to shoot for 100 years like George Burns. And forever? With the state my body is in already, I sure as heck wouldn't want to live in it forever. No thanks. I'd prefer to go quietly in my sleep and wait for the NEW body.
I don't know about doctrine, but everything almost in this physical world decays. When my Savior comes back, I'm hoping the next world or this world upgraded or wherever we get to stay won't.
Can you imagine how crowded the planet would be if people could really believe to live forever? Yikes!
Having seen how frail my dad became before his death, one month short of his 92nd birthday, I have no desire to shoot for 100 years like George Burns. And forever? With the state my body is in already, I sure as heck wouldn't want to live in it forever. No thanks. I'd prefer to go quietly in my sleep and wait for the NEW body.
Amen to that...excited about having a new body at the return of Christ!
A fetus in a womb has no idea of the magnificence of what's available outside its closed environment. Nor of how magnificent and wonderfully capable its body really is, or rather will be, outside its closed environment.
Just as we really don't know (we only have a glimpse of) what's available outside our closed environment. And we only have a glimpse of how magnificent and wonderfully capable the new body will be.
I don't remember if it was in a class or publication or what, but, there was a concept that circulated around The Way regarding longevity. It seems, according to Way theology, that one controlled one's own lifespan by virtue of the so-called "law of believing. In other words, you could theoretically live forever, as long as your believing held out.
This is but another example of the kind of bad science that found a home in Wayworld.
According to scientific studies (specifically those involving the Hayflick Limit) human cells have a finite number of times they can replicate. It's built into the DNA. If you can manage to stay out of the way of runaway dump trucks and steer clear of neighborhoods known for drive-by shootings, the cells in your body will eventually reach a predetermined point at which they can no longer replicate. At that point, they die. Sort of a built in clock. Not even the much heralded "law of believing" can persuade them to do otherwise.
Telomeres are the key, support your telomeres and sirtuin proteins and you can extend your health span, meaning how long you will live a healthy life. Anyone who wants more information can email me about it. seth.i.rosen@gmail.com
I do believe that in his created state man did possess perfection. But, after the fall he would take on a gradual state of deterioration which meant that it would take a millennium to get to the 120 year life span. So, down through the ages, Moses, Noah, Methuselah lived 600 + years.
As far as how biblical people measuring time then, it raises a good question? Maybe they had a decade that they leaped instead of day.
The factors that may have been an influence for longevity generally include nutrition, exercise, and rest. In terms of nutrition, one would have to study what was available for them to eat. How much animal derived food did they have and how much processing did they subject it to? They probably weren't putting a whole laboratory worth of chemicals in their food. They may have had a wide range of herbs and grains and fruit. Because they had no where near the amount of population then that we have now, they didn't need to have elaborate factory farms that mass produce poultry, shove animals in overcrowded barns where they ended up hip deep in feces. And most people had to actually do hard work to make a living. That's why I think they may have lived longer in the earlier days of humanity. Proximity of larger populations and raising and processing animals for food all had to be handled carefully to prevent food borne illness. Since they may not have had any kind of sophisticated medical practices back in their day.
Believing one could live for ever and then drinking booze and smoking kools like it was going out of style not so smart.
Yah, "believing connotes action" - therefore, as in his actions he was smoking known cancer-causing agents, and drinking known liver disease agents, what was his believing? To get those diseases. And he did. He died of cancer. His believing equaled his receiving.
It's easier to clean your teeth regularly and refrain from sweet sugary things, than to "believe to heal" your teeth and get your rotted pegs fixed free of charge by God.
"Believing" sometimes, often, means not doing something.
Life has to be more than believing = receiving when believing is defined as "a verb" and "action".
We do in fact live major portions of our lives without thinking or "believing" at all. If believing was always required we'd fail constantly.
Believing was often defined in the Way's doctrine as "not thinking" about something, but simply accepting and trusting, an almost mindless or thoughtless acting out and upon one's own convictions....like the example of sitting on a chair and not thinking if the chair will hold you up, you just sit and the chair holds you up. Or standing up, you don't think about if your legs will hold up up if you believe they can, you just stand on them. Or going into your bank account to take money out that you know you have - you just withdraw it.
But -
This principle falls apart if I compare an actual non-doubting acceptance and a resulting action based on that acceptance where I have only complete trust driving my action - .
Like backing up and sitting down on a chair - that isn't there....And falling on my butt.
We've all done that kind of thing - stepped where there's no step thinking there was - we're not looking, we have NO DOUBT in our minds that the chair or step is there - in fact we don't really think about the chair or step at all we just sit or step - according to the principle we should receive the result of our believing action - and those kinds of examples are probably the easiest and best ways to understand a state of mind where there is NO DOUBT, ONLY BELIEVING - and yet when we act upon that believing we don't receive what we believed for (expected, trusted in) - ever. We fall on our butts - we don't sit on thin air, a chair doesn't materialize.
I believe in the power of prayer, of God's power, I believe in miracles and the deliverance, God's grace and mercy, and that Jesus Christ is living and real to all those who come to Him in believing faith.
There are times when people tell of the impossible happening - but it's never bang bang-thankyouma'am in the way that the Way's teaching of the principle would indicate. People pray, join together, God's promises of grace and mercy intervene.
There's also the factor of "grace" that has an affect on life. I've pondered that "grace" is a far more intrinsic quality of the nature of life than I've limited it to in the past.
Genetics + lifestyle + environment = quality of life.
The human body has an expiration date, like it or not. Prevention and maintenance improves, maximizes.
Intervention and change - Christianity is all about that.
VPW died young, that's a fact. It's not a surprise though - in his 50's he inferred that he was basically healthy and robust.
He excused the smoking like all smokers do - "I only smoke a few puffs off a cigarette and then put it out". Yeah, right. Sure, makes it okay. His diet - that he didn't eat a lot at any one time. Or anything really bad for you in quantity.
Those things all sound GREAT when you're relatively young and even GREATER when you're healthy. Meanwhile the clock is ticking. Pile it in and on.
Genetics + lifestyle + environment = quality of life.
mysocksfriend, i do know people who make your mathematical thing null and void
--
but i don't want to talk about that
There's also the factor of "grace" that has an affect on life. I've pondered that "grace" is a far more intrinsic quality of the nature of life than I've limited it to in the past.
Sure. Grace in the bible, "charis" - a noun, feminine-kindness, favor, goodness extended, granting something, to someone or something's benefit.
Consider that life grows under favorable conditions and flourishes when it gets what it needs.
Life certainly responds to adversity, conflict, tension. Not always in bad ways.
Eating the right food sustains and builds our bodies. Exercise makes them fluid, strong, resilient. Using something, be it a muscle or a brain cell requires effort, some ignition.
I think it's reasonable to accept that for life to flourish there has to be kindness extended to it - if a child isn't fed it will die. An infant won't be able to get it's own food or it's own clothes.
Some wouldn't call that "kindness" - but if you remove the mother and father's urge to care for the child and no one else does, it won't make it. We might call that "love" or whatever but the desire to care for someone else and give them what they need when they can only consume resources and not contribute resources back (for years) would fall into that category. It might feel natural and expected but without it we won't survive, right outta the gate.
In order to grow up and become a "contributing member of society" we need a lot of charis to come our way, kindness, favor extended to us when we really don't have any way of earning it or deserving it.
Jesus spoke about children in this way, and faith towards God. How to do something for a child is - well, a good thing to do. I see these kinds of realities present in those illustrations.
And beyond that life of all kinds responds when the conditions are productive - and also responds to conditions that aren't and adapts - if it can. But if I throw a fish out of the river onto the bank and do it a 1000 times to a 1000 fish, none of them are going to get up and flip me off and walk away shouting "Cut it OUT MAN!!"....They're going to die. Adaptation isn't as easy as a Disney movie. It's can be a painful process, as we all know.
Anyway - just pondering the nature of how things flow when they flow well.
Someone wants to get over into my lane this morning, big truck - he was going to get screwed if he didn't get over, wasn't going to make the turn he needed to and would probably have had to go all the way around a good mile or so to get back to where he could get on the freeway - I slowed down, flashed my lights and he bopped right over - high sign! - yae! dude, yeah! and he was on his way.
Grace. Or screw you haaahahaha!! and speed up and force him off the lane.
No skin off my wheels. Good for him though.
Just my thoughts....life isn't a lay up every time we try to do something, can't be. But it goes pretty nicely when we get a few of those mixed in with the bangs and bumps.
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OldSkool
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Steve Lortz
I think we'll all learn a lot of interesting things in the resurrection. The continuity of our current lives doesn't depend on all our cells living for our entire lifetimes. The continuity of our consciousness may have something to do with our nerve cells not reproducing. A lot of food for thought...
Love,
Steve
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OldSkool
I speculate from time to time. But I have also developed the belief that if it was important to fellowship with God he would have included the information in his Word. Otherwise, we can speculate but will never know until it's revealed at a later date.
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WordWolf
Right.
Ultimately, either we'll find out when we're "upgraded"" (or maybe later),
or it's all smoke and we'll never find out.
Either way, speculating can be FUN ((maybe tolemerase production has degraded
due to chromosomal aberration, maybe A Wizard Did It),
but won't get us very far.
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OldSkool
Now, TWI took speculation to the n'th degree and called it research. Believing to live forever comes to mind. So does Eve having sex with the devil as the first sin of mankind. There are other fantasy island type beliefs held as proven ministry research. Though Eve and Lucifer's illicit love affair have been silently stripped out of the FNC. Do they believe it's wrong? They will neve admit it and we will never know.
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Watered Garden
Wierwilles, father and son, both smoked heavily. I remember being told in my early days that my believing could overcome the natural tendency of the body to develop diseases as a result of cigarette smoking.
I quit smoking.
No diseases secondary to smoking. Yet at least.
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Linda Z
Can you imagine how crowded the planet would be if people could really believe to live forever? Yikes!
Having seen how frail my dad became before his death, one month short of his 92nd birthday, I have no desire to shoot for 100 years like George Burns. And forever? With the state my body is in already, I sure as heck wouldn't want to live in it forever. No thanks. I'd prefer to go quietly in my sleep and wait for the NEW body.
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chockfull
I don't know about doctrine, but everything almost in this physical world decays. When my Savior comes back, I'm hoping the next world or this world upgraded or wherever we get to stay won't.
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DogLover
Amen to that...excited about having a new body at the return of Christ!
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Twinky
I think of this world a bit like a womb.
A fetus in a womb has no idea of the magnificence of what's available outside its closed environment. Nor of how magnificent and wonderfully capable its body really is, or rather will be, outside its closed environment.
Just as we really don't know (we only have a glimpse of) what's available outside our closed environment. And we only have a glimpse of how magnificent and wonderfully capable the new body will be.
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Linda Z
Great comparison, Twinky!
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excathedra
i look forward to christ coming for me. this life is very tough
opera buff stop killing me
god, wierwille died really young. i'm so upset lol
what bullsheet. my brother said he would never live to be 30. he'll be 50 in a few months.
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frank123lol
Old testament was in lunar months approx 28 days go from there.
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Seth R.
Telomeres are the key, support your telomeres and sirtuin proteins and you can extend your health span, meaning how long you will live a healthy life. Anyone who wants more information can email me about it. seth.i.rosen@gmail.com
;)
Seth
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Seth R.
Believing one could live for ever and then drinking booze and smoking kools like it was going out of style not so smart.
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Rocky
The factors that may have been an influence for longevity generally include nutrition, exercise, and rest. In terms of nutrition, one would have to study what was available for them to eat. How much animal derived food did they have and how much processing did they subject it to? They probably weren't putting a whole laboratory worth of chemicals in their food. They may have had a wide range of herbs and grains and fruit. Because they had no where near the amount of population then that we have now, they didn't need to have elaborate factory farms that mass produce poultry, shove animals in overcrowded barns where they ended up hip deep in feces. And most people had to actually do hard work to make a living. That's why I think they may have lived longer in the earlier days of humanity. Proximity of larger populations and raising and processing animals for food all had to be handled carefully to prevent food borne illness. Since they may not have had any kind of sophisticated medical practices back in their day.
I might be rambling...
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excathedra
yes you're rambling
i refuse to talk about all my relatives and who lived to be whatever age and what they did and did not do. none of it makes a lick of sense
some lady in new jersey is still alive and they asked her why
she said god doesn't want her yet
there you go
he wanted veepee lol so he could save us from him ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha haha ha
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Twinky
Yah, "believing connotes action" - therefore, as in his actions he was smoking known cancer-causing agents, and drinking known liver disease agents, what was his believing? To get those diseases. And he did. He died of cancer. His believing equaled his receiving.
It's easier to clean your teeth regularly and refrain from sweet sugary things, than to "believe to heal" your teeth and get your rotted pegs fixed free of charge by God.
"Believing" sometimes, often, means not doing something.
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socks
That is really the essence of it, Twinky!
Life has to be more than believing = receiving when believing is defined as "a verb" and "action".
We do in fact live major portions of our lives without thinking or "believing" at all. If believing was always required we'd fail constantly.
Believing was often defined in the Way's doctrine as "not thinking" about something, but simply accepting and trusting, an almost mindless or thoughtless acting out and upon one's own convictions....like the example of sitting on a chair and not thinking if the chair will hold you up, you just sit and the chair holds you up. Or standing up, you don't think about if your legs will hold up up if you believe they can, you just stand on them. Or going into your bank account to take money out that you know you have - you just withdraw it.
But -
This principle falls apart if I compare an actual non-doubting acceptance and a resulting action based on that acceptance where I have only complete trust driving my action - .
Like backing up and sitting down on a chair - that isn't there....And falling on my butt.
We've all done that kind of thing - stepped where there's no step thinking there was - we're not looking, we have NO DOUBT in our minds that the chair or step is there - in fact we don't really think about the chair or step at all we just sit or step - according to the principle we should receive the result of our believing action - and those kinds of examples are probably the easiest and best ways to understand a state of mind where there is NO DOUBT, ONLY BELIEVING - and yet when we act upon that believing we don't receive what we believed for (expected, trusted in) - ever. We fall on our butts - we don't sit on thin air, a chair doesn't materialize.
I believe in the power of prayer, of God's power, I believe in miracles and the deliverance, God's grace and mercy, and that Jesus Christ is living and real to all those who come to Him in believing faith.
There are times when people tell of the impossible happening - but it's never bang bang-thankyouma'am in the way that the Way's teaching of the principle would indicate. People pray, join together, God's promises of grace and mercy intervene.
There's also the factor of "grace" that has an affect on life. I've pondered that "grace" is a far more intrinsic quality of the nature of life than I've limited it to in the past.
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socks
Genetics + lifestyle + environment = quality of life.
The human body has an expiration date, like it or not. Prevention and maintenance improves, maximizes.
Intervention and change - Christianity is all about that.
VPW died young, that's a fact. It's not a surprise though - in his 50's he inferred that he was basically healthy and robust.
He excused the smoking like all smokers do - "I only smoke a few puffs off a cigarette and then put it out". Yeah, right. Sure, makes it okay. His diet - that he didn't eat a lot at any one time. Or anything really bad for you in quantity.
Those things all sound GREAT when you're relatively young and even GREATER when you're healthy. Meanwhile the clock is ticking. Pile it in and on.
Genetics + lifestyle + environment = quality of life.
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excathedra
mysocksfriend, i do know people who make your mathematical thing null and void
--
but i don't want to talk about that
please expound mwah
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socks
Sure. Grace in the bible, "charis" - a noun, feminine-kindness, favor, goodness extended, granting something, to someone or something's benefit.
Consider that life grows under favorable conditions and flourishes when it gets what it needs.
Life certainly responds to adversity, conflict, tension. Not always in bad ways.
Eating the right food sustains and builds our bodies. Exercise makes them fluid, strong, resilient. Using something, be it a muscle or a brain cell requires effort, some ignition.
I think it's reasonable to accept that for life to flourish there has to be kindness extended to it - if a child isn't fed it will die. An infant won't be able to get it's own food or it's own clothes.
Some wouldn't call that "kindness" - but if you remove the mother and father's urge to care for the child and no one else does, it won't make it. We might call that "love" or whatever but the desire to care for someone else and give them what they need when they can only consume resources and not contribute resources back (for years) would fall into that category. It might feel natural and expected but without it we won't survive, right outta the gate.
In order to grow up and become a "contributing member of society" we need a lot of charis to come our way, kindness, favor extended to us when we really don't have any way of earning it or deserving it.
Jesus spoke about children in this way, and faith towards God. How to do something for a child is - well, a good thing to do. I see these kinds of realities present in those illustrations.
And beyond that life of all kinds responds when the conditions are productive - and also responds to conditions that aren't and adapts - if it can. But if I throw a fish out of the river onto the bank and do it a 1000 times to a 1000 fish, none of them are going to get up and flip me off and walk away shouting "Cut it OUT MAN!!"....They're going to die. Adaptation isn't as easy as a Disney movie. It's can be a painful process, as we all know.
Anyway - just pondering the nature of how things flow when they flow well.
Someone wants to get over into my lane this morning, big truck - he was going to get screwed if he didn't get over, wasn't going to make the turn he needed to and would probably have had to go all the way around a good mile or so to get back to where he could get on the freeway - I slowed down, flashed my lights and he bopped right over - high sign! - yae! dude, yeah! and he was on his way.
Grace. Or screw you haaahahaha!! and speed up and force him off the lane.
No skin off my wheels. Good for him though.
Just my thoughts....life isn't a lay up every time we try to do something, can't be. But it goes pretty nicely when we get a few of those mixed in with the bangs and bumps.
Anyhoo.
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frank123lol
Smoking bad,smoking and alcohol reaaly,really bad for you.Vp also said he had never got drunk his whole life,just was never sober either.
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