"....the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
The Treaty of Tripoli (1796)
Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof.
Official records show that after President John Adams sent the treaty to the Senate for ratification in May 1797, the entire treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, and copies were printed for every Senator. A committee considered the treaty and recommended ratification. Twenty-three of the thirty-two sitting Senators were present for the June 7 vote which unanimously approved the ratification recommendation.
If I had a quarter for everytime I heard someone in the way international talk about how God worked to found the United States on Christian principles so the Word could have free course...etc, etc, etc.
I read through John's article about smelling the counterfeit.
I spent four years on a submarine. When we were running submerged, we breathed recycled air. We got oxygen from distilling sea water and breaking the resulting fresh water into hydrogen and oxygen. We burnt molecular hydrogen and carbon monoxide to produce carbon dioxide and water, and we used a CO2 scrubber to take the carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. We dissolved the CO2 in sea water and pumped it back overboard. We carbonated the ocean!
We ran the air through activated charcoal filters in the fan room, but there's only so much you can do. The boat stank of rotting lube oil that had been aerosoled, diesel fuel (even though it was a nuke boat), old, rank cooking odors, and weeks worth of the B.O. and halitosis of 100 men. Most of the time, we didn't even notice the smell.
Sometimes we had drills (or real casualties) when we had to put on EABs (emergency air breathers), which were like gas masks hooked up to scuba regulators that could be plugged into the compressed air system. The air in the system bottles was compressed surface air. It wasn't part of our normal atmosphere.
Between the time we put an EAB on, and the time we took it off, we were breathing surface air. At the end of the drill or casualty, when we took our EABs off, we were overwhelmed momentarily by the most God-awful, gut-wrenching locker-room smell you can imagine. But after a couple of minutes, the smell had receded in our consciousness, and we no longer noticed it.
So it is with John Lynn's experience of the counterfeit. He is so steeped in Wierwille's counterfeit dispensationalism, he thinks it's the Truth, and everybody except himself is out to lunch.
When Lynn was involved with Momentus, he was verbally, mentally and emotionally, abusing the non-grads, and the grads who failed to toe the party line. When he was confronted about the counterfeit of Momentus, he withstood his confrontors to the face. I know. I was one of them.
John really does believe his own blather. In some ways, that makes him more dangerous than an honest con-man. Fortunately, he isn't competent enough to be a politician.
A Homeland Security ad says: “If you see something, say something.” If we Christians are to be “Watchmen” of the Truth (cp. Ezek. 33:1ff), we must be able to first discern the counterfeits and then have the courage to SAY SOMETHING about them. For the purposes of this letter, those counterfeits can be broken down into two major categories: (1) the more obvious DOCTRINAL counterfeits and (2) the less obvious BEHAVIORAL counterfeits. Both are discernible by the standard of the written Word of God.
We hear ya, John.
That's zackly what we do here at the Cafe. Regarding both categories you identify.
Poor John as he's called has been through so many doctrinal shifts and shafts I would wonder how anyone who's followed him on even a couple of his digressions can do anything but pray for him at this point.
He and his gaggle of followers have promoted such bizarre doctrinal positions that it would seem he and they should be very capable at recognizing the smell of counterfeits - they seem to be champs at finding them and trying them out.
And still it amazes me that he tries to get away with his invocation of the past associations with Dr. Weirwille, as if VP would today be excited and pleased as punch over what he's doing.
He knows - he absolutely knows - that VP would be hacking up paste knowing the JAL has changed his initial doctrinal platform of PFAL. The drill was - change one word, your whole bible falls to pieces. PFAL was the basic primer and nothing - not a word of it - was ever to be changed as far as VP went.
JAL knows that. He knows that he can today invoke the name of VPW for those who miss VPW, never knew him or only know what they've heard, and get away with it.
Except for those of us who know otherwise.
I do believe some things differently than were held forth in PFAL. Not everything but some things, yes.
I won't lie about what that means though.
Lie is a harsh accusation - but ol' JAL has earned it. He knows better. God only knows how he talked himself into this self promoting machine he is today - well, it is obvious in some ways but yikes. It's a trip, man.
Poor John as he's called has been through so many doctrinal shifts and shafts I would wonder how anyone who's followed him on even a couple of his digressions can do anything but pray for him at this point.
And still it amazes me that he tries to get away with his invocation of the past associations with Dr. Weirwille, as if VP would today be excited and pleased as punch over what he's doing.
Lie is a harsh accusation - but ol' JAL has earned it. He knows better. God only knows how he talked himself into this self promoting machine he is today - well, it is obvious in some ways but yikes. It's a trip, man.
He is extremely deluded, which would classify as a mental illness. We already trusted the mentally ill and evil VPW who used God and salvation as the hook. Once was MORE than enough!
He is extremely deluded, which would classify as a mental illness. We already trusted the mentally ill and evil VPW who used God and salvation as the hook. Once was MORE than enough!
I have been diagnosed with the mild form of bipolar mood disorder which I keep in balance with the generic forms of Paxil and Zoloft. For several years I have facilitated a bi-weekly support group associated with the National Alliance on Mental Illness, in which I've had regular contact with people who are afflicted with a variety of genuine mental illnesses.
I don't think either Lynn or Wierwille suffer(ed) from mental illness, that is, a chemical imbalance in the neuro-transmitters.
The Bible says the heart is "deceitful above all things", and "where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" because your heart will believe whatever you habitually tell it. In his heart, John actually believes the idiotic things that come out of his mouth, because he has habitually told his heart those things.
The antidote for a deceitful heart is making a habit of speaking truth to it. To do that, you have to line your habitual thoughts up with the intent God expresses in His Word. The necessary humility is designated as the fear of God. That's why Wierwille was so crafty in claiming that "be not highminded, but fear" is not addressed to the Church. Wierwille preferred to be arrogant, and he taught us to be arrogant also.
Lynn does not recognize his own arrogance. He does not fear God. That"s why he's fallen prey to the deceitfulness of his own heart.
The Bible says the heart is "deceitful above all things", and "where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" because your heart will believe whatever you habitually tell it. In his heart, John actually believes the idiotic things that come out of his mouth, because he has habitually told his heart those things.
Lynn does not recognize his own arrogance. He does not fear God. That"s why he's fallen prey to the deceitfulness of his own heart.
Thank you for the clarification Steve. And OMYGOSH...scary!
ohmygosh steve on so many points. i love you - you are something else
i didn't recall that you were a momentus person, thank you for letting me know
i have to take meds
Thank you, excie! My heart has gone out to you ever since I learned of the vile indignities Wierwille and his minions heaped on you. I love you too, the way I love my biological sisters. My folks raised me to look out for them. It was my brotherly responsibility, and on one occasion, I went into a bar with one of my sisters, prepared to use the brawling skills I learned in the Navy, if one of the guys who might have be there had tried anything with her.
There's nothing to be ashamed of in taking meds. The first of our Principles of Support in NAMI is: We will see the individual first, and not the illness.
Wierwille tarnished the memory of many truths. I hope it won't be a trigger if I say that you REALLY ARE God's best!
Yeh, I doubt I'd classify John's tendencies as "mental illness" or even that a mental illness is anything other than something that requires treatment.
I was in a hospital the other day and notice as I walked through how many people that were there were walking slowly, seemed in pain, had difficulty standing and sitting and some who were out right grouchy and ill tempered. Go figure.
It's a hospital. There's sick people there going for help, treatment, their families. A wonderful opportunity to celebrate any ability to do anything and to share it - open a door for someone, let someone else go first, ask if they need help, being courteous and as helpful and positive as I myself can be, if I can at all.
I don't know what John's problem really is, mine is arm chair advice from afar. He just seems misguided and his efforts moderately confused.
I suppose he does well at things that can be measured, like his SAT prep stuff.
Counting the number of people who giggle when you speak or the number of healthy people who say they feel great afterwards isn't exactly a measurement of success.
When the Gospel is preached it is a divine message that's being referenced - a lot can happen under any circumstance. I don't doubt there are "results" for people, however powerful or tepid.
It sounds like so much of a scam he's running I can only hope there's some benefit from it. Avoid it? Yes, that's best advice to counterfeiting I could give.
i have to find a job (i'm 56) or we'll lose our home - 5 years to go on mortgage
do you think it would help if i read the bible?
what books/verses would you suggest?
what else can i do?
besides following JAL on twitter (that was big fat joke)
thanks,
love,e
i've been applying everywhere for everything within my areas of skills, etc.
There is no magic formula. Whether or not reading the Bible will help depends on what part you are reading, and why. Find something in there that makes YOU feel better. What I would suggest is looking for things to be thankful for, right here, right now, even if that's nothing more than enjoying your next breath, and focus the majority of your attention on those things. Do every thing you can think of, and remember that the Lord is gonna get you up again, even if you die.
I hope this helps. Continue to trust the Lord, no matter what happens.
"It is hard for me to believe that even some of my former peers, who heard the same Bible teaching I did, have abandoned the doctrinal pillars of Truth for such self-contradictory and illogical lies."
There is SSSOOOO MUCH to ponder in this quote:
The principle person in view is John Lynn, "...hard for ME to believe..." "...the same Bible teaching I [heard]..."
Lynn sets himself and his own experience as his standard for truth.
He characterizes his own beliefs as "doctrinal pillars of Truth", with a capital "T", and anyone else's beliefs as "self-contradictory and illogical lies". In doing so, he demonstrates his own ignorance of logic and hypothesis-testing.
Logic can be valid and yet not sound. If an argument properly follows the rules of a system of logic, then that argument is valid, however, if it is based on faulty propositions (assumptions), then it is not sound.
A valid argument can yield false conclusions if the original propositions do not line up with objective reality.
Wierwille's system of "administrations" is founded on the proposition that the Greek word oikonomia should be translated as "a period of time".
If we examine the objective evidence of the Bible, we see that in the seven places where it occurs, oikonomia NEVER requires translation as "a period of time".
There is a perfectly good Greek word that means "a period of time." That word is aion. If we study the uses of aion, we find that the Bible says something vastly different about periods of time than what Wierwille taught.
Are the things that Lynn holds to be "pillars of Truth" self-contradictory? Yes they are! They may be logically valid, but they are definitely not sound! Are they also lies? Yes, indeed!
Category #1 is doctrinal counterfeits. If you know and adhere to the beliefs and teachings of The Living Truth Fellowship, then the same-old, same-old doctrinal counterfeits like the Trinity, Jesus being God, dead people being alive, the immortal soul, God being in control and thus responsible for all that happens, losing your salvation, Christians going through all or part of the Tribulation, speaking in tongues being a gift, etc., etc., are very obvious to you, as well they should be. But how many of our precious brethren are ensnared and enslaved by those fallacious and debilitating notions? Clearly, the vast majority. If you currently hold to such traditional beliefs, please visit our website www.TLTF.org and give us the opportunity to present a more rational, logical, and intellectually and emotionally satisfying view of Scripture.
"how many of our precious brethren are ensnared and enslaved by those fallacious and debilitating notions? Clearly, the vast majority."
Is it ensnaring and debilitating to believe in a God who takes responsibility, instead of an irresponsible God? I've come to consider that the thing in humankind that makes them in the "image" of God is their ability to deliberately decide, "feedom/responsibility", if you will. God is free. God has expressed his freedom in creating. He accepts responsibility for what he has created. Lynn's "pillar of Truth" God is an ineffectual cross between the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man and the Pillsbury Doughboy. He has no foreknowledge. He doesn't know what the devil is gonna pull off next. Punch him in the stomach all you please, the only thing he'll do is giggle. Since we can't "lose your salvation" there are no real consequences for sin.
What does it mean to be "ensnared"? Perhaps, unable to consider an alternative explanation because you know that you know that YOU KNOW the one and only truth, revealed as it hasn't been known since the first century!
"Clearly, the vast majority." No, John... it's not clear.
I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is, was, and always will be, the Head of the Church. I believe Jesus has been training and equipping the vast majority of Christians to do exactly what he wants them to do. The doctrine of the Trinity as set forth in the Council of Chalcedon may not meet some modern standards of understanding the Bible, but the alternative explanation at the time was that Jesus had no human nature at all. The alternative to the doctrine of the Trinity was that Jesus had NEVER BEEN A REAL HUMAN BEING AT ALL. I think God and Jesus both know how to sort mail. They don't need Wierwille or John Lynn to do it for them.
Lynn calls them "our precious brethren" when he means "our poor, ignorant doofus brethren" because he makes it plain that is how he regards them.
"If you currently hold to such traditional beliefs, (if you are currently an ignorant doofus, ensnared and enslaved, especially if you are a bored billionaire,) please visit our website www.TLTF.org and give us (your money) the opportunity to present a more rational, logical, and intellectually and emotionally satisfying view of Scripture."
Lynn's criteria for interpreting scripture is not how accurately it replicates the intended meaning (exegesis), but rather how "rational, logical, and intellectually and emotionally satisfying" it is (eisegesis).
But how many of our precious brethren are ensnared and enslaved by those fallacious and debilitating notions? Clearly, the vast majority. If you currently hold to such traditional beliefs, please visit our website www.TLTF.org and give us the opportunity to present a more rational, logical, and intellectually and emotionally satisfying view of Scripture.
It seems like I've been on a rant about this lately, and now I think I know why.
I started working on a master's degree in theological studies about a year ago, but I elected the non-thesis track. For the last couple of months, I have been turning over in my mind the possibility of converting to the thesis track and writing an interpretation of Acts chapter 2. Yesterday, I decided to take the plunge, and do it.
In the process, I started reading a chapter on "The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit" from a book that's used to teach the masters of divinity students (those preparing to become recognized ministers in the denomination), and I was stunned when I read their definition of the Holy Spirit and some of that definition's implications.
The author defined the Holy Spirit as "the everywhere presence of God" based on Psalm 139:7. According to their way of thinking, the Holy Spirit is already in everybody, always has been, always will be. So "the gift of the Holy Spirit" has to be something the Holy Spirit gives, not the Spirit itself. The biggest thing I'm going to have to do in my thesis is explain the difference, in terms my professors will understand, between the Giver and the gift.
I think I can do it!
But that would be an impossibility if I still had the same attitude as when I was involved with CES. I'll have to learn how my profs think, before I can teach them what I know.
For all his desire to reach people, Lynn can't do it, because he isn't willing to learn how THEY think. He can't translate what truths he may have learned in PFAL into any language other than the words Wierwille used in PFAL. Therefore, in Lynn's mind, the failure to communicate is not because he doesn't understand how to talk to his hearers, but because his hearers are "ensnared and enslaved".
I am so exercised by the trap in which Lynn finds himself, because I was in the same trap myself, and the Lord is showing me how to get out of it. It's going to be the biggest assignment I've had in my 63 years...
The biggest thing I'm going to have to do in my thesis is explain the difference, in terms my professors will understand, between the Giver and the gift.
I think I can do it!
But that would be an impossibility if I still had the same attitude as when I was involved with CES. I'll have to learn how my profs think, before I can teach them what I know.
And the book of Acts has many records of Paul doing this very thing. From Synagogues to Mars Hill. He knew his audience and spoke to them in terms of their own understanding to explain the gospel to them. Cool.
"But that would be an impossibility if I still had the same attitude as when I was involved with CES. I'll have to learn how my profs think, before I can teach them what I know."
It seems that this was our problem in the past, and IS the problem of all the offshoots today. They think that telling you their view is the way to reach people to their way of thinking. But then again, empathy was NEVER their strongsuit.
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waysider
"....the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
The Treaty of Tripoli (1796)
Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof.
......................................................................
Official records show that after President John Adams sent the treaty to the Senate for ratification in May 1797, the entire treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, and copies were printed for every Senator. A committee considered the treaty and recommended ratification. Twenty-three of the thirty-two sitting Senators were present for the June 7 vote which unanimously approved the ratification recommendation.
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OldSkool
If I had a quarter for everytime I heard someone in the way international talk about how God worked to found the United States on Christian principles so the Word could have free course...etc, etc, etc.
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Steve Lortz
I read through John's article about smelling the counterfeit.
I spent four years on a submarine. When we were running submerged, we breathed recycled air. We got oxygen from distilling sea water and breaking the resulting fresh water into hydrogen and oxygen. We burnt molecular hydrogen and carbon monoxide to produce carbon dioxide and water, and we used a CO2 scrubber to take the carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. We dissolved the CO2 in sea water and pumped it back overboard. We carbonated the ocean!
We ran the air through activated charcoal filters in the fan room, but there's only so much you can do. The boat stank of rotting lube oil that had been aerosoled, diesel fuel (even though it was a nuke boat), old, rank cooking odors, and weeks worth of the B.O. and halitosis of 100 men. Most of the time, we didn't even notice the smell.
Sometimes we had drills (or real casualties) when we had to put on EABs (emergency air breathers), which were like gas masks hooked up to scuba regulators that could be plugged into the compressed air system. The air in the system bottles was compressed surface air. It wasn't part of our normal atmosphere.
Between the time we put an EAB on, and the time we took it off, we were breathing surface air. At the end of the drill or casualty, when we took our EABs off, we were overwhelmed momentarily by the most God-awful, gut-wrenching locker-room smell you can imagine. But after a couple of minutes, the smell had receded in our consciousness, and we no longer noticed it.
So it is with John Lynn's experience of the counterfeit. He is so steeped in Wierwille's counterfeit dispensationalism, he thinks it's the Truth, and everybody except himself is out to lunch.
When Lynn was involved with Momentus, he was verbally, mentally and emotionally, abusing the non-grads, and the grads who failed to toe the party line. When he was confronted about the counterfeit of Momentus, he withstood his confrontors to the face. I know. I was one of them.
John really does believe his own blather. In some ways, that makes him more dangerous than an honest con-man. Fortunately, he isn't competent enough to be a politician.
Love,
Steve
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Twinky
We hear ya, John.
That's zackly what we do here at the Cafe. Regarding both categories you identify.
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socks
Poor John as he's called has been through so many doctrinal shifts and shafts I would wonder how anyone who's followed him on even a couple of his digressions can do anything but pray for him at this point.
He and his gaggle of followers have promoted such bizarre doctrinal positions that it would seem he and they should be very capable at recognizing the smell of counterfeits - they seem to be champs at finding them and trying them out.
And still it amazes me that he tries to get away with his invocation of the past associations with Dr. Weirwille, as if VP would today be excited and pleased as punch over what he's doing.
He knows - he absolutely knows - that VP would be hacking up paste knowing the JAL has changed his initial doctrinal platform of PFAL. The drill was - change one word, your whole bible falls to pieces. PFAL was the basic primer and nothing - not a word of it - was ever to be changed as far as VP went.
JAL knows that. He knows that he can today invoke the name of VPW for those who miss VPW, never knew him or only know what they've heard, and get away with it.
Except for those of us who know otherwise.
I do believe some things differently than were held forth in PFAL. Not everything but some things, yes.
I won't lie about what that means though.
Lie is a harsh accusation - but ol' JAL has earned it. He knows better. God only knows how he talked himself into this self promoting machine he is today - well, it is obvious in some ways but yikes. It's a trip, man.
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Rejoice
He is extremely deluded, which would classify as a mental illness. We already trusted the mentally ill and evil VPW who used God and salvation as the hook.
Once was MORE than enough!
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Steve Lortz
I have been diagnosed with the mild form of bipolar mood disorder which I keep in balance with the generic forms of Paxil and Zoloft. For several years I have facilitated a bi-weekly support group associated with the National Alliance on Mental Illness, in which I've had regular contact with people who are afflicted with a variety of genuine mental illnesses.
I don't think either Lynn or Wierwille suffer(ed) from mental illness, that is, a chemical imbalance in the neuro-transmitters.
The Bible says the heart is "deceitful above all things", and "where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" because your heart will believe whatever you habitually tell it. In his heart, John actually believes the idiotic things that come out of his mouth, because he has habitually told his heart those things.
The antidote for a deceitful heart is making a habit of speaking truth to it. To do that, you have to line your habitual thoughts up with the intent God expresses in His Word. The necessary humility is designated as the fear of God. That's why Wierwille was so crafty in claiming that "be not highminded, but fear" is not addressed to the Church. Wierwille preferred to be arrogant, and he taught us to be arrogant also.
Lynn does not recognize his own arrogance. He does not fear God. That"s why he's fallen prey to the deceitfulness of his own heart.
Love,
Steve
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Rejoice
Thank you for the clarification Steve. And OMYGOSH...scary!
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excathedra
ohmygosh steve on so many points. i love you - you are something else
i didn't recall that you were a momentus person, thank you for letting me know
i have to take meds
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Steve Lortz
Thank you, excie! My heart has gone out to you ever since I learned of the vile indignities Wierwille and his minions heaped on you. I love you too, the way I love my biological sisters. My folks raised me to look out for them. It was my brotherly responsibility, and on one occasion, I went into a bar with one of my sisters, prepared to use the brawling skills I learned in the Navy, if one of the guys who might have be there had tried anything with her.
There's nothing to be ashamed of in taking meds. The first of our Principles of Support in NAMI is: We will see the individual first, and not the illness.
Wierwille tarnished the memory of many truths. I hope it won't be a trigger if I say that you REALLY ARE God's best!
Love,
Steve
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socks
Yeh, I doubt I'd classify John's tendencies as "mental illness" or even that a mental illness is anything other than something that requires treatment.
I was in a hospital the other day and notice as I walked through how many people that were there were walking slowly, seemed in pain, had difficulty standing and sitting and some who were out right grouchy and ill tempered. Go figure.
It's a hospital. There's sick people there going for help, treatment, their families. A wonderful opportunity to celebrate any ability to do anything and to share it - open a door for someone, let someone else go first, ask if they need help, being courteous and as helpful and positive as I myself can be, if I can at all.
I don't know what John's problem really is, mine is arm chair advice from afar. He just seems misguided and his efforts moderately confused.
I suppose he does well at things that can be measured, like his SAT prep stuff.
Counting the number of people who giggle when you speak or the number of healthy people who say they feel great afterwards isn't exactly a measurement of success.
When the Gospel is preached it is a divine message that's being referenced - a lot can happen under any circumstance. I don't doubt there are "results" for people, however powerful or tepid.
It sounds like so much of a scam he's running I can only hope there's some benefit from it. Avoid it? Yes, that's best advice to counterfeiting I could give.
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excathedra
i have to find a job (i'm 56) or we'll lose our home - 5 years to go on mortgage
do you think it would help if i read the bible?
what books/verses would you suggest?
what else can i do?
besides following JAL on twitter (that was big fat joke)
thanks,
love,e
i've been applying everywhere for everything within my areas of skills, etc.
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Steve Lortz
There is no magic formula. Whether or not reading the Bible will help depends on what part you are reading, and why. Find something in there that makes YOU feel better. What I would suggest is looking for things to be thankful for, right here, right now, even if that's nothing more than enjoying your next breath, and focus the majority of your attention on those things. Do every thing you can think of, and remember that the Lord is gonna get you up again, even if you die.
I hope this helps. Continue to trust the Lord, no matter what happens.
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
"It is hard for me to believe that even some of my former peers, who heard the same Bible teaching I did, have abandoned the doctrinal pillars of Truth for such self-contradictory and illogical lies."
There is SSSOOOO MUCH to ponder in this quote:
The principle person in view is John Lynn, "...hard for ME to believe..." "...the same Bible teaching I [heard]..."
Lynn sets himself and his own experience as his standard for truth.
He characterizes his own beliefs as "doctrinal pillars of Truth", with a capital "T", and anyone else's beliefs as "self-contradictory and illogical lies". In doing so, he demonstrates his own ignorance of logic and hypothesis-testing.
Logic can be valid and yet not sound. If an argument properly follows the rules of a system of logic, then that argument is valid, however, if it is based on faulty propositions (assumptions), then it is not sound.
A valid argument can yield false conclusions if the original propositions do not line up with objective reality.
Wierwille's system of "administrations" is founded on the proposition that the Greek word oikonomia should be translated as "a period of time".
If we examine the objective evidence of the Bible, we see that in the seven places where it occurs, oikonomia NEVER requires translation as "a period of time".
There is a perfectly good Greek word that means "a period of time." That word is aion. If we study the uses of aion, we find that the Bible says something vastly different about periods of time than what Wierwille taught.
Are the things that Lynn holds to be "pillars of Truth" self-contradictory? Yes they are! They may be logically valid, but they are definitely not sound! Are they also lies? Yes, indeed!
Love,
Steve
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excathedra
thank you steve, love you
--
and to stay on topic, to JAL, "will the real you please shut up"?
just a joke
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Steve Lortz
Good one, excie, good one!
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
"how many of our precious brethren are ensnared and enslaved by those fallacious and debilitating notions? Clearly, the vast majority."
Is it ensnaring and debilitating to believe in a God who takes responsibility, instead of an irresponsible God? I've come to consider that the thing in humankind that makes them in the "image" of God is their ability to deliberately decide, "feedom/responsibility", if you will. God is free. God has expressed his freedom in creating. He accepts responsibility for what he has created. Lynn's "pillar of Truth" God is an ineffectual cross between the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man and the Pillsbury Doughboy. He has no foreknowledge. He doesn't know what the devil is gonna pull off next. Punch him in the stomach all you please, the only thing he'll do is giggle. Since we can't "lose your salvation" there are no real consequences for sin.
What does it mean to be "ensnared"? Perhaps, unable to consider an alternative explanation because you know that you know that YOU KNOW the one and only truth, revealed as it hasn't been known since the first century!
"Clearly, the vast majority." No, John... it's not clear.
I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is, was, and always will be, the Head of the Church. I believe Jesus has been training and equipping the vast majority of Christians to do exactly what he wants them to do. The doctrine of the Trinity as set forth in the Council of Chalcedon may not meet some modern standards of understanding the Bible, but the alternative explanation at the time was that Jesus had no human nature at all. The alternative to the doctrine of the Trinity was that Jesus had NEVER BEEN A REAL HUMAN BEING AT ALL. I think God and Jesus both know how to sort mail. They don't need Wierwille or John Lynn to do it for them.
Lynn calls them "our precious brethren" when he means "our poor, ignorant doofus brethren" because he makes it plain that is how he regards them.
"If you currently hold to such traditional beliefs, (if you are currently an ignorant doofus, ensnared and enslaved, especially if you are a bored billionaire,) please visit our website www.TLTF.org and give us (your money) the opportunity to present a more rational, logical, and intellectually and emotionally satisfying view of Scripture."
Lynn's criteria for interpreting scripture is not how accurately it replicates the intended meaning (exegesis), but rather how "rational, logical, and intellectually and emotionally satisfying" it is (eisegesis).
(off my soapbox for now)
Love,
Steve
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waysider
"If you're ever in doubt, ask The Teacher." :o
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Ham
Maybe he learned that phrase from rosalie..
it's an insult, spoken with the correct southern drawl.
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Steve Lortz
(accidental double post)
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Steve Lortz
It seems like I've been on a rant about this lately, and now I think I know why.
I started working on a master's degree in theological studies about a year ago, but I elected the non-thesis track. For the last couple of months, I have been turning over in my mind the possibility of converting to the thesis track and writing an interpretation of Acts chapter 2. Yesterday, I decided to take the plunge, and do it.
In the process, I started reading a chapter on "The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit" from a book that's used to teach the masters of divinity students (those preparing to become recognized ministers in the denomination), and I was stunned when I read their definition of the Holy Spirit and some of that definition's implications.
The author defined the Holy Spirit as "the everywhere presence of God" based on Psalm 139:7. According to their way of thinking, the Holy Spirit is already in everybody, always has been, always will be. So "the gift of the Holy Spirit" has to be something the Holy Spirit gives, not the Spirit itself. The biggest thing I'm going to have to do in my thesis is explain the difference, in terms my professors will understand, between the Giver and the gift.
I think I can do it!
But that would be an impossibility if I still had the same attitude as when I was involved with CES. I'll have to learn how my profs think, before I can teach them what I know.
For all his desire to reach people, Lynn can't do it, because he isn't willing to learn how THEY think. He can't translate what truths he may have learned in PFAL into any language other than the words Wierwille used in PFAL. Therefore, in Lynn's mind, the failure to communicate is not because he doesn't understand how to talk to his hearers, but because his hearers are "ensnared and enslaved".
I am so exercised by the trap in which Lynn finds himself, because I was in the same trap myself, and the Lord is showing me how to get out of it. It's going to be the biggest assignment I've had in my 63 years...
Love,
Steve
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OldSkool
And the book of Acts has many records of Paul doing this very thing. From Synagogues to Mars Hill. He knew his audience and spoke to them in terms of their own understanding to explain the gospel to them. Cool.
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Steve Lortz
Thanks for the feedback, Old Skool! I think you just functioned for me as "a multitude of counselors"! This is gonna be fun, as well as work!
Love,
Steve
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Rejoice
It seems that this was our problem in the past, and IS the problem of all the offshoots today. They think that telling you their view is the way to reach people to their way of thinking. But then again, empathy was NEVER their strongsuit.
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