Do they really expect Rozie to turn over the control to someone else while she is alive?
It will never happen. And I hate to break the news to them but she will not have her work undone by having people around who disagree with her. The ranks are cleansed from dissenters. When she dies someone will replace her but it will be someone who thinks she is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I think one reason people hang on is they think it's God's ministry and he will raise someone up to right all the wrongs.
Recently heard from another insider how they've been waiting and waiting for a new leader who would
make everything all better. It seems like a familiar dream to many insiders.
From what I understood, most people on the inside absolutely hate life inside,
see the hypocrisy, control, and are totally BORED! The only reason they hang around is, because
they anticipate the next coming of....someone who will replace Rozie and her crew, and make it a
vital household.
I've been there. I've rationalized hanging on to my own detriment. The conclusion I've come to is that it's one thing to waste your own life on that - you make the decision, you deal with the consequences. However, wasting your kids life on that is in my opinion where it becomes criminal.
Thankfully a lot of TWI raised kids are smarter than their parents and are seeing through the sham and saying no to the BS, running for the hills and building themselves healthy lives.
Just ask yourself, of the lady semi-couple (Rozie and Donna) running TWI, how many of their kids are following in their leadership example? Hmmmm. None? Rozie marked and avoided her kids so she didn't have to deal with them and could cut them out of her life. Donna's kids couldn't wait to get away from HQ and away from all that garbage.
I mean the healthiest thing to happen to TWI would be if some of the minions would grow a pair and throw Jezebel over the wall figuratively. But like all practiced dictators like Hitler and Stalin, Rozie is adept at sniffing dissention and immediately axes people before they can amass power to do that. What a paranoid life. What a sad existence for all involved.
But like all practiced dictators like Hitler and Stalin, Rozie is adept at sniffing dissention and immediately axes people before they can amass power to do that
It wouldn't take much to overthrow her. Just a few discrete, quiet conversations..
unless they are terrified, knowing not whom they can really trust. I would want to find out. What's the worst that could happen? I mean.. you're what.. fifty some years old, the kids are grown up, educated, (hopefully) moved on out of the house, or trailer, or whatever you're "living" in..
I mean.. one could live in a trailer almost anywhere. Can't be worse than where you're at..
Wasn't Rosie supposed to be a temporary solution until someone competent could take over?
Anybody that had any kind of charisma or decent personality at all was run off or ran off. Any “rising star” was sent away. Or Rosie the black widow would spin her web around them until they couldn’t move.
When I was still in I heard that TWI was moving to two groups of head leadership: the Board of Directors and officers. I never really understood it but then some explained that the officers were the day to day hands on people but they couldn’t do anything without the approval of the board of directors. Well, if Rosie stayed on the board of directors and made sure that the other board members were her lackeys then no matter who the president was they couldn’t do anything (make major changes) without the approval of the board of directors.
I found it amusing that TWI under Rosie became what both Wierwille and Martindale hated, a dull, lifeless denomination under the control of a completely incompetent board of directors.
Good luck waiting for your knight in shining armor. You’re going to be waiting a looooooong time.
Wasn't Rosie supposed to be a temporary solution until someone competent could take over?
It wasn't exactly stated that way. It's a true statement though. She is not competent. Anyway, Rosalie was supposed to spread authority out in the hands of the top leadership. Also, there was supposed to be a 3 to 5 year term limit (generally speaking) on directors. 12 years (give or take) later and she is still on top of the heap with all the power firmly in her hands, with Donna Martindale at her side.
Anybody that had any kind of charisma or decent personality at all was run off or ran off. Any “rising star” was sent away. Or Rosie the black widow would spin her web around them until they couldn’t move.
True statement. She has devoured and marginalized many, many people over the years. They have come and gone at the director level, they have come and gone at the cabinet and region level.
When I was still in I heard that TWI was moving to two groups of head leadership: the Board of Directors and officers. I never really understood it but then some explained that the officers were the day to day hands on people but they couldn’t do anything without the approval of the board of directors. Well, if Rosie stayed on the board of directors and made sure that the other board members were her lackeys then no matter who the president was they couldn’t do anything (make major changes) without the approval of the board of directors.
I was in a meeting when she first announced this to the cabinet. It was also announced to the region coordinators and a question and answer session was held via phone hookup on how it would work. Lame meeting....
This was supposed to be Rosalie's retirement plan. She would throttle back by splitting all of the dual positions. The trustees/director spots were always dual positions. They functioned as officers and directors. Most organizations of any size have officers running the day to day operations, with full authority delegated by the board of directors. The directors hold ultimate authority and set policy, expectations, etc. The president/CEO was supposed to be a dual position so they could report to the board. A real board of directors usually operate by majority vote, though there are other arrangements. Not so in the way international. They do whatever Rosalie wants.
Anywho, Rosalie was going to limit herself to the things she enjoyed most. Things such as publications and the sunday teaching service, etc. The idea was to have a more effective and legitimate corporate structure. HQ is all about corporate legitimacy since the Allen lawsuits. They really want to stay out of court as defendants. Plantiff is another story.
This was supposed to happen around 2008 or so. I don't really know how much of this has been implemented since I left. Honestly, it's quite amateur they never functioned this way. This is basic corporate structure. It works, it's effective. Want to know why the way international takes over a decade to produce a new advanced class? Look no further than the great micro manager, Rosalie.
I found it amusing that TWI under Rosie became what both Wierwille and Martindale hated, a dull, lifeless denomination under the control of a completely incompetent board of directors.
Anywho, Rosalie was going to limit herself to the things she enjoyed most. Things such as publications and the sunday teaching service, etc.
Of course, she enjoys hiding behind the bureaucratic layering of Way Publications and Sunday Services where she can proofread material and critique the lowly schlubs. Isn't that what inspires a "prevailing word" organization?
:biglaugh:
Wierwille did it too! Oh, except......wierwille championed the "research dept" and sunday teachings.
Ain't it great to sit in the big chair and pontificate? These actions speak louder than any words these "mogs/mogettes"
bloviate week after week. Heck, wierwille would "lead" healing services by instructing all advanced class grads and corps
to come forward at those roa events.
With wierwille in charge, the term "corps leadership" became an oxymoron.
Yeah, twi has been morphing into a dull, lifeless, micromanaged, denomination for a long, long time.
Heck, wierwille would "lead" healing services by instructing all advanced class grads and corps
to come forward at those roa events.
Yes, I recall one of those events....1973, perhaps?
Wierwille stood on stage, behind the podium, blathering into the microphone the whole time, while everyone else was "in the trenches", so to speak. Looking back, it reminds me of session 12 of PLAF (The Wonder Class).
Something similar happened among the people who left in the mid-to-late-'80s, only instead of thinking a new leader would raise up, people would become disappointed by one splinter group, and flee to another. I remember very clearly when it dawned on me that NO ONE was going to restore what the Way should have been, because the Way was NEVER what it should have been. Walking away from the Way and its splinters became a lot easier after that.
I was in rez a lot later than most of you posting here. In one series of Corps teachings (I think it must have been Corps not SNS - OldSkool's wife might remember, she might have been around about that time) LCM spent very much time "teaching" about meanings for the different words used for "evil." One such word was poneros; another kakos. One being "unproductive" evil (ie that caused by not doing something that you ought to be doing - passive evil. The other being "corrosive" evil - actively doing wrong. Don't ask me which was which, and if there are other Greek words. I think maybe there were.
All rubbish, probably.
Anyway, the point I wanted to make is, how much more unproductive can TWI be? With control-meister Rosie ensuring that nothing except highly scripted stuff is ever allowed to escape those hallowed, sorry hollowed, walls, how much more "unproductive evil" emanates from that place? (Not to mention the "corrosive evil" when something does escape.)
Patriot, you might remember something of this too.
Rosalie was supposed to spread authority out in the hands of the top leadership. Also, there was supposed to be a 3 to 5 year term limit (generally speaking) on directors. 12 years (give or take) later and she is still on top of the heap with all the power firmly in her hands, with Donna Martindale at her side.
Yes, she assured "us" (ugh...while I shudder at the thought of following TWI) that no one person would ever have that much power anymore but that the power would be spread out. There would be many, many different teachers. The president would be mainly an administrative function, and she, after all, was an administrator and not a teacher. And more people would be added to the board and the authority would be spread out there too. That's what she said. And 12 years later, it's all a big fat lie.
Sure, there's many teachers, and true, she's definitely not a teacher (even though she really was a teacher...go figure), but all the teachers are completely filtered through her approval process that her publications minions carry out, and stripped of all personality so that the final product is old, empty, stale, and boring...just like Rosie herself.
Sure, there are more people on the board, plus officers too. Even so, they still must send every tiny decision to her, and they bow to every word and whim she says. They will even eat shi®t for her. And if not, they get the axe. Harve was "released" of being VP because he disagreed with Rosie and stood up to her. At least I semi-admire him for that. So now she's fired him twice...stupid beach. Roger M., same story. Both good people who didn't agree with her and got put in the doghouse for it. Roger especially. Long story short, she's in total control of everything administratively also. And if she loses any control through any one of the directors or officers, off they go.
There is one thing that is different, though: she's not the most photographed face of TWI. Other than that, same control, same power, same old same old.
I was in rez a lot later than most of you posting here. In one series of Corps teachings (I think it must have been Corps not SNS - OldSkool's wife might remember, she might have been around about that time) LCM spent very much time "teaching" about meanings for the different words used for "evil." One such word was poneros; another kakos. One being "unproductive" evil (ie that caused by not doing something that you ought to be doing - passive evil. The other being "corrosive" evil - actively doing wrong. Don't ask me which was which, and if there are other Greek words. I think maybe there were.
Hey Twinkie, yep, I remember. Some things in all that yelling are still stuck in my brain. Poneros was the unproductive evil; kakos was the active, malignant evil. Somehow poneros was not as big of a sin...not until later when all the slothfulness teachings (yellings?) came about and it was "discovered" (I think the Lord revealed it to the forehead) that poneros evil was in the midst of us every day and we had to smoke it out. "Smoke it out"...that's so ridiculous...it makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time.
Didn't the Vicenheimer teach, in PFAL, that there are no degrees of sin?
Oh, hold on a sec., this is "evil", not "sin".
What was I thinking? I almost thought he had forgotten The Holy Word of Vic.
Yeah, that's what Vic taught. But Craig taught that homosexuality was the sin of all sins, the granddaddy of them all. That homos were the "lowest of the low." He said that was the only sin that the Word says the people who do it are "filled with all unrighteousness." Sounds like degrees of sin to me. No doubt they've gone back to Vic's teaching on this since he was not ousted from presidency from coercing female victims into sex...even though it's well known that he did.
Yeah, that's what Vic taught. But Craig taught that homosexuality was the sin of all sins, the granddaddy of them all. That homos were the "lowest of the low." He said that was the only sin that the Word says the people who do it are "filled with all unrighteousness." Sounds like degrees of sin to me. No doubt they've gone back to Vic's teaching on this since he was not ousted from presidency from coercing female victims into sex...even though it's well known that he did.
Oh, my. He must have been torn with inner conflict as he sat through session 8, the session on sonship rights (righteousness included).
Someone of lesser spiritual understanding might construe this to be a contradiction in Way Theology.
I was in rez a lot later than most of you posting here. In one series of Corps teachings (I think it must have been Corps not SNS - OldSkool's wife might remember, she might have been around about that time) LCM spent very much time "teaching" about meanings for the different words used for "evil." One such word was poneros; another kakos. One being "unproductive" evil (ie that caused by not doing something that you ought to be doing - passive evil. The other being "corrosive" evil - actively doing wrong. Don't ask me which was which, and if there are other Greek words. I think maybe there were.
All rubbish, probably.
Anyway, the point I wanted to make is, how much more unproductive can TWI be? With control-meister Rosie ensuring that nothing except highly scripted stuff is ever allowed to escape those hallowed, sorry hollowed, walls, how much more "unproductive evil" emanates from that place? (Not to mention the "corrosive evil" when something does escape.)
Patriot, you might remember something of this too.
Unless you also choose to forget it!!
I remember hearing about the different kinds of "evil" back in the '80s. I don't remember where, or from whom. I have since studied actual Greek under an actual, bona fide doctor who specialized in studying Greek. There are several different words that translate into English as "evil", just as there are several different words that translate as "good".
To the best of my understanding, kakos means "generic badness" and poneros means "blind" or "diseased" in a physical sense, and "wicked" in an ethical sense.
Kalos means "good with regard to beauty or nobility" while agathos means "good with regard to usefulness".
Kalos is set in contrast with kakos in Hebrews 5:14, but I think it is a contrast in poetic effect rather than a contrast in fine meaning. The only difference between good (kalos) and evil (kakos) are the letters "l" and "k", and those two letters occur side by side in the Greek alphabet!
The Greek meanings aren't one-to-one correspondences with the English meanings. There are nuances that are invisible in the English, but the significances attached by Wierwille to the words were for the most part, cornfield hogwash or rip-offs from Bullinger.
Yep.....I thought the same thing in 1977 shortly after wierwille's live pfal-class at Ball State in Muncie, IN.
I enrolled at Ball State as a non-traditional student in the summer of 1979. That's where I was witnessed to, and "got into the Word", so I heard a lot of stories about the live class in '77.
Were you there skyrider? What was it really like? Was Wierwille's performance bad enough that people were thinking he was past it? I heard it was videoed to replace the 1967 version of PFAL, but somehow or other, it just didn't work out. Got any insight you could share? Thanks!
I enrolled at Ball State as a non-traditional student in the summer of 1979. That's where I was witnessed to, and "got into the Word", so I heard a lot of stories about the live class in '77.
Were you there skyrider? What was it really like? Was Wierwille's performance bad enough that people were thinking he was past it? I heard it was videoed to replace the 1967 version of PFAL, but somehow or other, it just didn't work out. Got any insight you could share? Thanks!
Love,
Steve
Yeah.......I was there. For nearly seven months, we'd been hearing all the promos for PFAL '77 and my expectations
were really high. But.....for me, what came across was this overwhelming "control atmosphere" of a/v crews and
videotaping procedures and quieting any noise from students before and during class sessions.
By this time, I'd probably heard the original pfal class 9 or 10 times......so I thought wierwille would be better
than he was. There were moments of anxiousness and frustration when videotaping didn't go as smoothly as they wanted.
And, all the fanfare and playing to the audience seemed kinda silly.
I remember a major banquet where everyone of us were dressed in suits/dresses and all. Good food, but it seemed like
it took forever to get seated, served, and the announcements from the head table afterwards.
We had break-out groups led by corps.......same old, same old.
I must admit, classroom settings and large conventions aren't the thing that "knocks my socks off." The hoopla and fanfare
just didn't rise to the expectations that I'd built all those months prior. I guess that I was one of those guys who just
wanted to be taught how to walk with God and SEE IT IN ACTION. For years, I really thought that twi would MOVE BEYOND
WIERWILLE AND "HIS GREATNESS."
I was waiting for ANOTHER leader......I never thought wierwille was the end-all in spiritual leadership.
I believed that more and more truths would be mined from twi's research department....not just more rehash.
If there really were to be apostles and prophets, wouldn't they rise up in twi's midst? You know, men who were fearless
and heralded detailed truth.....not just flaky, micromanaged classes.
And now, looking back......I see how off-target twi was in the mediator/lordship/loveGod categories that it's NOT surprising
to see that twi gravitated to another traditions-of-men organization. Being young and full of zeal, I wanted to skyrocket the
glory of God in all His majesty and praise His Holy Name. The greatest thing about twi was the wonderful and awesome people
from all walks of life.....until the constant droning of repetition and indoctrination stole their enthusiasm and dreams.
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OldSkool
It will never happen. And I hate to break the news to them but she will not have her work undone by having people around who disagree with her. The ranks are cleansed from dissenters. When she dies someone will replace her but it will be someone who thinks she is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I think one reason people hang on is they think it's God's ministry and he will raise someone up to right all the wrongs.
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chockfull
I've been there. I've rationalized hanging on to my own detriment. The conclusion I've come to is that it's one thing to waste your own life on that - you make the decision, you deal with the consequences. However, wasting your kids life on that is in my opinion where it becomes criminal.
Thankfully a lot of TWI raised kids are smarter than their parents and are seeing through the sham and saying no to the BS, running for the hills and building themselves healthy lives.
Just ask yourself, of the lady semi-couple (Rozie and Donna) running TWI, how many of their kids are following in their leadership example? Hmmmm. None? Rozie marked and avoided her kids so she didn't have to deal with them and could cut them out of her life. Donna's kids couldn't wait to get away from HQ and away from all that garbage.
I mean the healthiest thing to happen to TWI would be if some of the minions would grow a pair and throw Jezebel over the wall figuratively. But like all practiced dictators like Hitler and Stalin, Rozie is adept at sniffing dissention and immediately axes people before they can amass power to do that. What a paranoid life. What a sad existence for all involved.
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Ham
It wouldn't take much to overthrow her. Just a few discrete, quiet conversations..
unless they are terrified, knowing not whom they can really trust. I would want to find out. What's the worst that could happen? I mean.. you're what.. fifty some years old, the kids are grown up, educated, (hopefully) moved on out of the house, or trailer, or whatever you're "living" in..
I mean.. one could live in a trailer almost anywhere. Can't be worse than where you're at..
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waysider
Waiting for the next leader......they might as well be Waiting For Godot.
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PatAnswer
Wasn't Rosie supposed to be a temporary solution until someone competent could take over?
Anybody that had any kind of charisma or decent personality at all was run off or ran off. Any “rising star” was sent away. Or Rosie the black widow would spin her web around them until they couldn’t move.
When I was still in I heard that TWI was moving to two groups of head leadership: the Board of Directors and officers. I never really understood it but then some explained that the officers were the day to day hands on people but they couldn’t do anything without the approval of the board of directors. Well, if Rosie stayed on the board of directors and made sure that the other board members were her lackeys then no matter who the president was they couldn’t do anything (make major changes) without the approval of the board of directors.
I found it amusing that TWI under Rosie became what both Wierwille and Martindale hated, a dull, lifeless denomination under the control of a completely incompetent board of directors.
Good luck waiting for your knight in shining armor. You’re going to be waiting a looooooong time.
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OperaBuff
Dreams are fine, if you are asleep.
The only difference between a dream and a goal is a plan. So, plan something, you few remaining innies!
Sleep well, Rozilla. Your ranks are clearly not fully cleansed...
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excathedra
oh if rozzie rivendark would just record a new pfal class, people could see the dynamic true blue leader they have right in front of their sleepy eyes
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OldSkool
It wasn't exactly stated that way. It's a true statement though. She is not competent. Anyway, Rosalie was supposed to spread authority out in the hands of the top leadership. Also, there was supposed to be a 3 to 5 year term limit (generally speaking) on directors. 12 years (give or take) later and she is still on top of the heap with all the power firmly in her hands, with Donna Martindale at her side.
True statement. She has devoured and marginalized many, many people over the years. They have come and gone at the director level, they have come and gone at the cabinet and region level.
I was in a meeting when she first announced this to the cabinet. It was also announced to the region coordinators and a question and answer session was held via phone hookup on how it would work. Lame meeting....
This was supposed to be Rosalie's retirement plan. She would throttle back by splitting all of the dual positions. The trustees/director spots were always dual positions. They functioned as officers and directors. Most organizations of any size have officers running the day to day operations, with full authority delegated by the board of directors. The directors hold ultimate authority and set policy, expectations, etc. The president/CEO was supposed to be a dual position so they could report to the board. A real board of directors usually operate by majority vote, though there are other arrangements. Not so in the way international. They do whatever Rosalie wants.
Anywho, Rosalie was going to limit herself to the things she enjoyed most. Things such as publications and the sunday teaching service, etc. The idea was to have a more effective and legitimate corporate structure. HQ is all about corporate legitimacy since the Allen lawsuits. They really want to stay out of court as defendants. Plantiff is another story.
This was supposed to happen around 2008 or so. I don't really know how much of this has been implemented since I left. Honestly, it's quite amateur they never functioned this way. This is basic corporate structure. It works, it's effective. Want to know why the way international takes over a decade to produce a new advanced class? Look no further than the great micro manager, Rosalie.
They are a self-fulfilling prophecy. :)
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excathedra
that beach has been doing that long before she had her present position (i didn't actually mean the one with donna ha ha ha ha ha ha ha)
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skyrider
Of course, she enjoys hiding behind the bureaucratic layering of Way Publications and Sunday Services where she can proofread material and critique the lowly schlubs. Isn't that what inspires a "prevailing word" organization?
Wierwille did it too! Oh, except......wierwille championed the "research dept" and sunday teachings.
Ain't it great to sit in the big chair and pontificate? These actions speak louder than any words these "mogs/mogettes"
bloviate week after week. Heck, wierwille would "lead" healing services by instructing all advanced class grads and corps
to come forward at those roa events.
With wierwille in charge, the term "corps leadership" became an oxymoron.
Yeah, twi has been morphing into a dull, lifeless, micromanaged, denomination for a long, long time.
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waysider
Yes, I recall one of those events....1973, perhaps?
Wierwille stood on stage, behind the podium, blathering into the microphone the whole time, while everyone else was "in the trenches", so to speak. Looking back, it reminds me of session 12 of PLAF (The Wonder Class).
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Steve Lortz
Something similar happened among the people who left in the mid-to-late-'80s, only instead of thinking a new leader would raise up, people would become disappointed by one splinter group, and flee to another. I remember very clearly when it dawned on me that NO ONE was going to restore what the Way should have been, because the Way was NEVER what it should have been. Walking away from the Way and its splinters became a lot easier after that.
Love,
Steve
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Twinky
I was in rez a lot later than most of you posting here. In one series of Corps teachings (I think it must have been Corps not SNS - OldSkool's wife might remember, she might have been around about that time) LCM spent very much time "teaching" about meanings for the different words used for "evil." One such word was poneros; another kakos. One being "unproductive" evil (ie that caused by not doing something that you ought to be doing - passive evil. The other being "corrosive" evil - actively doing wrong. Don't ask me which was which, and if there are other Greek words. I think maybe there were.
All rubbish, probably.
Anyway, the point I wanted to make is, how much more unproductive can TWI be? With control-meister Rosie ensuring that nothing except highly scripted stuff is ever allowed to escape those hallowed, sorry hollowed, walls, how much more "unproductive evil" emanates from that place? (Not to mention the "corrosive evil" when something does escape.)
Patriot, you might remember something of this too.
Unless you also choose to forget it!!
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What About It
Yes, she assured "us" (ugh...while I shudder at the thought of following TWI) that no one person would ever have that much power anymore but that the power would be spread out. There would be many, many different teachers. The president would be mainly an administrative function, and she, after all, was an administrator and not a teacher. And more people would be added to the board and the authority would be spread out there too. That's what she said. And 12 years later, it's all a big fat lie.
Sure, there's many teachers, and true, she's definitely not a teacher (even though she really was a teacher...go figure), but all the teachers are completely filtered through her approval process that her publications minions carry out, and stripped of all personality so that the final product is old, empty, stale, and boring...just like Rosie herself.
Sure, there are more people on the board, plus officers too. Even so, they still must send every tiny decision to her, and they bow to every word and whim she says. They will even eat shi®t for her. And if not, they get the axe. Harve was "released" of being VP because he disagreed with Rosie and stood up to her. At least I semi-admire him for that. So now she's fired him twice...stupid beach. Roger M., same story. Both good people who didn't agree with her and got put in the doghouse for it. Roger especially. Long story short, she's in total control of everything administratively also. And if she loses any control through any one of the directors or officers, off they go.
There is one thing that is different, though: she's not the most photographed face of TWI. Other than that, same control, same power, same old same old.
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What About It
Hey Twinkie, yep, I remember. Some things in all that yelling are still stuck in my brain. Poneros was the unproductive evil; kakos was the active, malignant evil. Somehow poneros was not as big of a sin...not until later when all the slothfulness teachings (yellings?) came about and it was "discovered" (I think the Lord revealed it to the forehead) that poneros evil was in the midst of us every day and we had to smoke it out. "Smoke it out"...that's so ridiculous...it makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time.
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waysider
Didn't the Vicenheimer teach, in PFAL, that there are no degrees of sin?
Oh, hold on a sec., this is "evil", not "sin".
What was I thinking? I almost thought he had forgotten The Holy Word of Vic.
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What About It
Yeah, that's what Vic taught. But Craig taught that homosexuality was the sin of all sins, the granddaddy of them all. That homos were the "lowest of the low." He said that was the only sin that the Word says the people who do it are "filled with all unrighteousness." Sounds like degrees of sin to me. No doubt they've gone back to Vic's teaching on this since he was not ousted from presidency from coercing female victims into sex...even though it's well known that he did.
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waysider
Oh, my. He must have been torn with inner conflict as he sat through session 8, the session on sonship rights (righteousness included).
Someone of lesser spiritual understanding might construe this to be a contradiction in Way Theology.
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excathedra
craig knew his wife and the ugly one were homosexuals. he couldn't handle it
i wonder if he could have handled donna with a man (well, besides wierwille)
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Steve Lortz
I remember hearing about the different kinds of "evil" back in the '80s. I don't remember where, or from whom. I have since studied actual Greek under an actual, bona fide doctor who specialized in studying Greek. There are several different words that translate into English as "evil", just as there are several different words that translate as "good".
To the best of my understanding, kakos means "generic badness" and poneros means "blind" or "diseased" in a physical sense, and "wicked" in an ethical sense.
Kalos means "good with regard to beauty or nobility" while agathos means "good with regard to usefulness".
Kalos is set in contrast with kakos in Hebrews 5:14, but I think it is a contrast in poetic effect rather than a contrast in fine meaning. The only difference between good (kalos) and evil (kakos) are the letters "l" and "k", and those two letters occur side by side in the Greek alphabet!
The Greek meanings aren't one-to-one correspondences with the English meanings. There are nuances that are invisible in the English, but the significances attached by Wierwille to the words were for the most part, cornfield hogwash or rip-offs from Bullinger.
Love,
Steve
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skyrider
Yep.....I thought the same thing in 1977 shortly after wierwille's live pfal-class at Ball State in Muncie, IN.
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Steve Lortz
I enrolled at Ball State as a non-traditional student in the summer of 1979. That's where I was witnessed to, and "got into the Word", so I heard a lot of stories about the live class in '77.
Were you there skyrider? What was it really like? Was Wierwille's performance bad enough that people were thinking he was past it? I heard it was videoed to replace the 1967 version of PFAL, but somehow or other, it just didn't work out. Got any insight you could share? Thanks!
Love,
Steve
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skyrider
Yeah.......I was there. For nearly seven months, we'd been hearing all the promos for PFAL '77 and my expectations
were really high. But.....for me, what came across was this overwhelming "control atmosphere" of a/v crews and
videotaping procedures and quieting any noise from students before and during class sessions.
By this time, I'd probably heard the original pfal class 9 or 10 times......so I thought wierwille would be better
than he was. There were moments of anxiousness and frustration when videotaping didn't go as smoothly as they wanted.
And, all the fanfare and playing to the audience seemed kinda silly.
I remember a major banquet where everyone of us were dressed in suits/dresses and all. Good food, but it seemed like
it took forever to get seated, served, and the announcements from the head table afterwards.
We had break-out groups led by corps.......same old, same old.
I must admit, classroom settings and large conventions aren't the thing that "knocks my socks off." The hoopla and fanfare
just didn't rise to the expectations that I'd built all those months prior. I guess that I was one of those guys who just
wanted to be taught how to walk with God and SEE IT IN ACTION. For years, I really thought that twi would MOVE BEYOND
WIERWILLE AND "HIS GREATNESS."
I was waiting for ANOTHER leader......I never thought wierwille was the end-all in spiritual leadership.
I believed that more and more truths would be mined from twi's research department....not just more rehash.
If there really were to be apostles and prophets, wouldn't they rise up in twi's midst? You know, men who were fearless
and heralded detailed truth.....not just flaky, micromanaged classes.
And now, looking back......I see how off-target twi was in the mediator/lordship/loveGod categories that it's NOT surprising
to see that twi gravitated to another traditions-of-men organization. Being young and full of zeal, I wanted to skyrocket the
glory of God in all His majesty and praise His Holy Name. The greatest thing about twi was the wonderful and awesome people
from all walks of life.....until the constant droning of repetition and indoctrination stole their enthusiasm and dreams.
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excathedra
i was there. i'm trying to remember anything worthwhile to tell you
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