Anyone have first hand knowledge of SNS attendance?

[OldSkool]

Well, I'm sure that with that great music, inspiring teachings and great outreach, the auditorium will be full to capacity in no time!

Ya, they may even have to build a second auditorium to hold everyone.

[JavaJane]

The real reason they haven't taken the money and run? Why? They get free labor... someone to clean and do odd jobs, cook for them. Someone to kick when they have a bad day. People to order around just for the hell of it. And they are basically worshipped and adored by some of these cult members.

And their slaves give them money for the privilege of oing so.

Money can't buy that (at least in this country.)

[dabobbada]

Ya, they may even have to build a second auditorium to hold everyone.

Oh, what the hell, why not just go back to the ol' BRC!

(biblical research center for all you late comers. It held about 250 people, All sunday teaching came from there from the mid sixties til the big auditorium opened.)

Awwwwwwww.... Now wouldn't that be nostalgic!

:dance:

RosyLie,

Just think of the propaganda value of that. People might come back just so they could sit out under the trees on the wierwille lawn in the summer like they did 30 years ago.

Whoooops...

Sorry VP, I didn't mean to sit on your face...!?!

:o :P

[dabobbada]

johniam,

As sweet as your intentions may be,

passing the electric kool-aid has already been done.

It leaves a big mess to clean up too.

Yes......,

I'm sick too.

[dabobbada]

Well, I'm sure that with that great music, inspiring teachings and great outreach, the auditorium will be full to capacity in no time!

Yes outie,

The auditorium has been full of it for a very long time.

It's a good thing they built the ceiling so high,

so it can hold so much premium manure.

Have the grunts turn it over occasionally and they will have wonderful compost.

:B)

[OldSkool]

The real reason they haven't taken the money and run? Why?

Yep, they can cry "Moving the word all they want" but in the end I think they hang on more for power and privilege than money. Not that the money is not at their disposal, but the directors really think they are the best of the best of the best, with honors.

[Ham]

I visited southern CA 25 years ago. They had lanes of traffic on freeways designated as carpool lanes. If you drove in those lanes with less than 4 people in your car, you could get a ticket. Something like that. So people were putting mannequins in the front and back seats so they could use those lanes and save time.

Maybe at the STS twi could.....

I understand they were not mannequins. They were, well.. you know. inflatable "people" purchased from the local XXX store, complete with air pump..

More life-like than mannequins I think..

[penworks]

I taught a service - once. Thank God it was only once. The teachings are beyond scripted. You are assigned a topic, you work the topic using ONLY approved ministry "research", you turn in an outline for approval, once approved the outline is crafted into word for word notes that are resubmitted for approval --- oh, you also have to record yourself (on cassette) presenting the teaching and turn that in as well. The entire process is used to control every word spoken. By the time you get around to actually presenting you teaching all of "you" has been carefully removed from the teaching and presentation. All that is left is an individual with a creepy smile, scared to death of misspeaking, reading word for word from their notes. The content is purposefully dumbed down. Why? Because all of the teaching should be fully understood by a 12 year old all the way to an untaught (by TWI) senior citizen.

It was one of the most unnatural, uncomfortable experiences in relation to public speaking I was ever involved in.

Can you tell us approximately when you gave this presentation? What year?

Thanks!

Penworks

[OldSkool]

Can you tell us approximately when you gave this presentation? What year?

Thanks!

Penworks

January of 2007.

[Ham]

I remember when the BRC had about a seventy other participants..

how many other could a National Home hold room for?

about 1975

nothing better since..

[dabobbada]

I remember when the BRC had about a seventy other participants..

how many other could a National Home hold room for?

about 1975

nothing better since..

Awww.. the good ol' days when the BRC was only half full, and populated with:

About one third... long time standing local folk in their Sunday best.

About one third... staff and early way corpse in their sunday best too.

(Including The Loy'd Craig himself as a real human before he ascended up on high.)

And...,

About one third... reforming hippy converts in their sunday best blue jeans.

Yes Virginia, there was a time when the dress code was more relaxed. But they were supposed to be your best blue jeans.

The best times were in the summer when you could sit outside under the trees, smoke, and hang loose with your friends.

[dabobbada]

I remember when the BRC had about a seventy other participants..

how many other could a National Home hold room for?

about 1975

nothing better since..

Let us not forget the overflow room in the basement.

Ohhhh yes, the worlds finest third class accommodations. <_<

(For new folk, National Home was the pre-fab building maker that the BRC was made from)

[Rejoice]

I looked at their website for the first time in years. One page stated: "The Way is a worldwide, nondenominational Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry headquartered in rural Ohio. "

do they still do ANYTHING internationally, or is that statement more likely implying that they still receive ABS from people living outside of the 50 states?

[OldSkool]

do they still do ANYTHING internationally,

They maintain a large following internationally, particularly from Africa. At least they claim that much anyways. I could see full fellowships overseas since they have no way of exerting their domineering, legalistic hand.

[danteh1]

i think they are already using mannequins in the audience -- even on stage perhaps

already using?????? haven't they been doing that for the last 15 to 20 years?

and the mannequins would be smarter that Roseylie and her cronies. :lol: and a whole lot better maybe at running things.

[skyrider]

I looked at their website for the first time in years. One page stated: "The Way is a worldwide, nondenominational Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry headquartered in rural Ohio. "

do they still do ANYTHING internationally, or is that statement more likely implying that they still receive ABS from people living outside of the 50 states?

For those who may not know.........twi does NOT receive abs funds from international countries. Those monies stay within

each respective country.

Twi does, however, benefit financially from an "international" platform. Tapes, magazine subscriptions, bookstore sales,

class syllabi, etc. and international advanced class attendees at hq. And, besides.....twi can tout its "international"

presence to make it look bigger than it actually is.

<_<

[waysider]

I think they're missing a golden opportunity. They could be marketing bottles of "holy water" from the illustrious fountain of living waters.

[skyrider]

I think they're missing a golden opportunity. They could be marketing bottles of "holy water" from the illustrious fountain of living waters.

Well.....they ARE marketing "holy breathings" from the lips of wierwille.

And, that seems to have worked for decades.

<_<

.

Edited July 9, 2012 by skyrider

[WordWolf]

For those who may not know.........twi does NOT receive abs funds from international countries. Those monies stay within

each respective country.

Twi does, however, benefit financially from an "international" platform. Tapes, magazine subscriptions, bookstore sales,

class syllabi, etc. and international advanced class attendees at hq. And, besides.....twi can tout its "international"

presence to make it look bigger than it actually is.

<_<

For the other people who may not know,

twi's undereducated staff made up the redundant term "international countries."

Any time you're talking 2 or more countries (nations),

you're talking "internationally."

It's sometimes amazing what impact twi's poor practices have had on all of us.

It can take decades to catch it all.

[WordWolf]

They maintain a large following internationally, particularly from Africa. At least they claim that much anyways. I could see full fellowships overseas since they have no way of exerting their domineering, legalistic hand.

vpw's greatest successes always happened overseas with no way to confirm them.

For example, the miraculous arm healing that even Mrs W said NOTHING about in her

account of events. (Her silence on what was supposedly an incredibly dramatic

miracle that shaped his ministry says quite a bit even if she never came out

and said "It never happened." In her account, it never DID happen because she

wrote about what DID and that wasn't there.)

So, twi has LOTS of faithful followers in Africa who we NEVER hear from and who

NEVER videotape themselves in action or even send a group photo. You KNOW twi

would make a major deal of ANY evidence they had of growing influence anywhere.

If they're CLAIMING that much to this day, I am confident it's all bull.

[OldSkool]

[if they're CLAIMING that much to this day, I am confident it's all bull.[/b]

The most I have seen is random class pictures, some of them around 20 people or a little more. I have heard rumor TWI has 100,000 followers in Africa alone.

[waysider]

Heh!

Reminds me of those three headed goats that just happen to be born in some remote Tibetan village.

That stuff never seems to happen in Chicago or Hoboken or Detroit or some place where people actually have the resources to document them.

Edited July 10, 2012 by waysider

[skyrider]

So, twi has LOTS of faithful followers in Africa who we NEVER hear from and who

NEVER videotape themselves in action or even send a group photo. You KNOW twi

would make a major deal of ANY evidence they had of growing influence anywhere.

Some three decades ago, when Rev. Tom Kn-pp and his wife Marilyn were in Africa for two years.....

I talked with them on several occasions after their arrival back on hq staff. Also, the two first

African corps guys, Andre Z. and Roger L. would return year after year to the roa festival and speak

of outreach.

The African "outreach" was an anomaly from all other international or U.S. outreach. The class registration

was so meager and the numbers of idle Africans everywhere looking for some opportunity for advancement in a

stagnant country were everywhere. Plus, in that culture most everyone walked to a nearby "fellowship" and

brought along six to fifteen family members......the numbers multiplied quickly. Even after finishing classes,

the corps leadership incorporated many layers of overseeing responsibilities to keep them occupied/busy. Like

someone was responsible for roll call and reporting back to the class instructor.

Even when Martindale visited the African continent in the mid-80s......his relative silence after his return to

hq was quite revealing. I was left with the impression that, yes, there was huge volumes of people and outreach

in Africa, but it was nearly impossible to quantify any sort of commitment level or spiritual growth. Just alot

of people involved in twi activity, because there was very little else in their society.

And, with the intermixture of many African languages and dialects (like Swahilli and Lengala sp?).....there was a

rogue aspect that twi grappled with constantly. Even the country coordinator, Mutamba (??) would not allow twi

leadership to boss him around and enjoyed the power role over people and was elevated in power after speaking on

the main stage at roa a couple of years. And, with Rev. Tom Kn-pp having translated and teaching pfal class, they

held to him as their spiritual leader and NOT victor paul wierwille.

Nearly everything that one quantifies of outreach or international exposure was different in Africa.

Twi may boast of these numbers from time to time.....but the African outreach has never been integrated

into the twi-fold. They are a distinct people with a multitude of issues in play.

[penworks]

...And, with the intermixture of many African languages and dialects (like Swahilli and Lengala sp?).....there was a

rogue aspect that twi grappled with constantly. Even the country coordinator, Mutamba (??) would not allow twi

leadership to boss him around and enjoyed the power role over people and was elevated in power after speaking on

the main stage at roa a couple of years. And, with Rev. Tom Kn-pp having translated and teaching pfal class, they

held to him as their spiritual leader and NOT victor paul wierwille.

Nearly everything that one quantifies of outreach or international exposure was different in Africa.

Twi may boast of these numbers from time to time.....but the African outreach has never been integrated

into the twi-fold. They are a distinct people with a multitude of issues in play.

I venture to guess that one of those issues is translating VPW's books. Tom translated them into French, the language of some - and I emphasize SOME - Africans, depending on their nation in Africa. It's highly unlikely any books were translated into Swahilli and Lengala, but maybe...perhaps some live translations went on during live teachings. In any event, the problem of who would decide that those translations were "accurate" was a continual thorn in VP's side. (this problem plagued TWI after VP's death, because he had been that guy).

Some of us realize the issues in translating...they are many and often involve subjective calls. A good translation depends on the translator's knowledge of the source language AND the target language. Nobody in TWI was in that position regarding the outreach in Africa to my knowledge.

Edited July 11, 2012 by penworks

[waysider]

CORPS GRADUATION, 2012