Wouldn't surprise me. Let me get this straight: twi has, what, 40 million dollars stashed away? Fewer and fewer loyal followers? Why haven't they just left and bought a tropical island somewhere? What are they waiting for? Are they having trouble deciding who all gets to go and who gets left behind?
I've heard here that the auditorium is only 30% full on Sunday nights. Does anyone here have FIRST-hand knowledge of how full they are? Pictures would be worth a thousand words. And maybe a few chuckles....
JT
The question that comes to my mind is......"Who wants to give up their Sunday, travel say 125 miles (one-way),
on a sweltering day, grab their dress clothes, change in the OSC bathrooms, walk over to the auditorium, sit
thru a 90-minute boring presentation of announcements & teachings, visit for 15 minutes afterward, go change
clothes, and drive back 125 miles TO FEEL PART OF THE TWI-COMMITMENT?"
The STS (Sunday Teaching Service) as it has been renamed, happens at 3pm now. When I was around in 2008, it was EMPTY. There was also a host of unfilled staff positions, which made the emptiness even worse. So what did Rosalie and the gang do to try and hide the emptiness? They started scheduling field visits from across the country. Charter a bus(es) and coerce as many people as you can to get on board. The only problem is there aren't enough people left in TWI (or enough of them that want to participate) to do this every time there is a service. So most of the time the auditorium is EMPTY.
Let's define empty. Typically, without a bussed in audience, they had trouble filling the center of the first three rows. I kid you not. The only times the place came close to capacity was pentecost, the anniversary, and perhaps a concert where the local community was invited to attend. By community I mean all the various and sundry business contacts that showed up out of obligation. But then only the lower auditorium was used. The top is only used at pentecost and the anniversary - maybe.
I see OldSkool has given a definitive answer to the question, and I will back it up with these observations:
For a few years, the Dayton station I get has occassionaly ran the the packaged for TV Sunday services. I haven't looked recently whether they still do it or not. I did watch all or portions of 4 or 5 episodes here and there and I was left with these impressions.
Everything was stiff, dull, and somehow running in an odd slow motion.
The music
The singing
Their shuffling, I cannot call it choreography
The teaching was dullest of all, and very basic, almost pre-pfal.
The smiles were ...creepy.
Not as good as I remembered, they were being genuine the best they could be, but it wasn't right.
The teachings were done from a small wooden podium in front of the closed curtains. The very large dark green curtains and the small podium gave an essence of of dark and gloominess which added to the measured slow pace of the teaching.
The stage area looked the same with the same curtains and props I had seen in the '80's and '90's, except duller, due to age I guess. Either that or they lack people who know how to to light and film a stage properly.
I found it interesting that most of the camera work was done from the balcony area. when they did a wide view shot, you could see some of the audience.
You never saw back more than 3 or 5 rows.
Occasionally, the rows were not filled all the way to the end.
Anyhow, that is what I remember from watching those episodes from 2 to 4 years ago. You can make of it what you want.
The STS (Sunday Teaching Service) as it has been renamed, happens at 3pm now. When I was around in 2008, it was EMPTY. There was also a host of unfilled staff positions, which made the emptiness even worse. So what did Rosalie and the gang do to try and hide the emptiness? They started scheduling field visits from across the country. Charter a bus(es) and coerce as many people as you can to get on board. The only problem is there aren't enough people left in TWI (or enough of them that want to participate) to do this every time there is a service. So most of the time the auditorium is EMPTY.
Let's define empty. Typically, without a bussed in audience, they had trouble filling the center of the first three rows. I kid you not. The only times the place came close to capacity was pentecost, the anniversary, and perhaps a concert where the local community was invited to attend. By community I mean all the various and sundry business contacts that showed up out of obligation. But then only the lower auditorium was used. The top is only used at pentecost and the anniversary - maybe.
WOW....on a scale of 1-10 (with 10 as highest mark), twi couldn't hardly scratch out at #2
Not as good as I remembered, they were being genuine the best they could be, but it wasn't right.
The teachings were done from a small wooden podium in front of the closed curtains. The very large dark green curtains and the small podium gave an essence of of dark and gloominess which added to the measured slow pace of the teaching.
I taught a service - once. Thank God it was only once. The teachings are beyond scripted. You are assigned a topic, you work the topic using ONLY approved ministry "research", you turn in an outline for approval, once approved the outline is crafted into word for word notes that are resubmitted for approval --- oh, you also have to record yourself (on cassette) presenting the teaching and turn that in as well. The entire process is used to control every word spoken. By the time you get around to actually presenting you teaching all of "you" has been carefully removed from the teaching and presentation. All that is left is an individual with a creepy smile, scared to death of misspeaking, reading word for word from their notes. The content is purposefully dumbed down. Why? Because all of the teaching should be fully understood by a 12 year old all the way to an untaught (by TWI) senior citizen.
It was one of the most unnatural, uncomfortable experiences in relation to public speaking I was ever involved in.
If I remember right, you came in after pfal was laid to rest. Those of us who took it might remember:
There is a segment in pfal where vp talks of walking in the spirit and letting the spirit work within you as you teach, thusly uplifting the fellowship in the glory of the Lord. All are blessed, all are healed, all are rejoicing in the Lord and all needs are met.
And on the other hand......
His example of the standard wimpy ordained clergy was on monday, going to his office, pulling out some paper and starting his next sermon. tuesday, wednesday, thursday, and friday he keeps reworking, rewriting, editing and perfecting his notes for the sunday sermon. On saterday he types it out inj full and perfect form to be read on sunday.
Then vp bends over as if readinf from a page and in a slow deliberately mocking tone says:
"Dearly beloved brethren in the Lord."
Then he stands upright, looks into the camera and says:
"My God, isn't the spirit just working in that poor fellow."
There was a period in the '70's and early '80's where many took his example to heart and did their best to walk in the spirit and bless others as the class and ministry had exhorted us to do. It was the wonderful miraculous goodtimes that many of remember with such fondness.
Well RosyLie, please tell us again how you are the true holder of the twi legacy?
Yeah, I remember that. He also said that, through the week, "the adversary" would look at what he had written and then work to turn the congregation against it/him so that the message would be poorly received on Sunday morning. Personally, I think he was just trying to rationalize his own laziness and lack of preparation.
I visited southern CA 25 years ago. They had lanes of traffic on freeways designated as carpool lanes. If you drove in those lanes with less than 4 people in your car, you could get a ticket. Something like that. So people were putting mannequins in the front and back seats so they could use those lanes and save time.
Wouldn't surprise me. Let me get this straight: twi has, what, 40 million dollars stashed away? Fewer and fewer loyal followers? Why haven't they just left and bought a tropical island somewhere? What are they waiting for? Are they having trouble deciding who all gets to go and who gets left behind?
We've discussed this before.
It's listed as a non-profit organization.
If they just close shop and grab the money,
the IRS will go after them and put them in prison.
Couldn't they just dupe someone(s) and have them mind the store and when the IRS comes the twi people are gone and, but, but, I'm just the accountant!
I'm sure Rosalie and Donna have pondered that same question, and came to the same conclusion-
with about $50 million missing, the IRS/FBI would follow them to the ends of the earth.
Current twi cadre have limited skills. They all (AFAIK) only speak English
(if Rupp is already on the outs, at least.) The number of countries they could flee to is
limited, and the IRS/CIA would find them easily. This is 2012. Everyone leaves a data trail.
The only way to drop that would be to go "off the grid"- but that would mean living in a tent
or a cabin somewhere with no electricity-which defeats the entire purpose of running off
with the money. They have more "benefits" by staying and milking the twi cash-cow,
and collecting the golden eggs than they'd have if they killed the golden goose looking
for the gold.
We're all confident the motivation of twi's top people is MONEY and LUXURIES. They'd all
leave and retire with the money if they could. I wonder how the remaining innies feel,
answering to people who are in it strictly for the paycheck...
The STS (Sunday Teaching Service) as it has been renamed, happens at 3pm now. When I was around in 2008, it was EMPTY. There was also a host of unfilled staff positions, which made the emptiness even worse. So what did Rosalie and the gang do to try and hide the emptiness? They started scheduling field visits from across the country. Charter a bus(es) and coerce as many people as you can to get on board. The only problem is there aren't enough people left in TWI (or enough of them that want to participate) to do this every time there is a service. So most of the time the auditorium is EMPTY.
Let's define empty. Typically, without a bussed in audience, they had trouble filling the center of the first three rows. I kid you not. The only times the place came close to capacity was pentecost, the anniversary, and perhaps a concert where the local community was invited to attend. By community I mean all the various and sundry business contacts that showed up out of obligation. But then only the lower auditorium was used. The top is only used at pentecost and the anniversary - maybe.
So, 30% full is overly optimistic, and it's more like 5%-10% full except when there's
people bused in or brought in for a promotional event?
I'm sure Rosalie and Donna have pondered that same question, and came to the same conclusion-
with about $50 million missing, the IRS/FBI would follow them to the ends of the earth.
OK. Another wrinkle. This reminds me of 2 lines from the first 'Die hard' movie. Bruce Willis asks Hans, the bad guy, "Why did you have to blow up the roof?" Hans says, "Because if you steal $600.00 you can just disappear, but if you steal 600 MILLION dollars, they WILL find you, unless they think you're already dead." So here's what twi should do.
Send invitations to everybody, spinoffs included. It'll be like Hezekiah's passover. All is forgiven, let's reconcile, it's all good...yeah, baby! Then during the big meeting, have a communion with poisoned wine. Everybody dies then they torch the WOW auditorium deliberately leaving a note behind saying that the word IS over the world and Christ HAS returned and they're gone to their private Idaho island and the IRS/FBI just might fall for it. Those cult people, y'know.
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excathedra
i think they are already using mannequins in the audience -- even on stage perhaps
OldSkool
I taught a service - once. Thank God it was only once. The teachings are beyond scripted. You are assigned a topic, you work the topic using ONLY approved ministry "research", you turn in an outline f
waysider
Yeah, I remember that. He also said that, through the week, "the adversary" would look at what he had written and then work to turn the congregation against it/him so that the message would be poorly
johniam
Wouldn't surprise me. Let me get this straight: twi has, what, 40 million dollars stashed away? Fewer and fewer loyal followers? Why haven't they just left and bought a tropical island somewhere? What are they waiting for? Are they having trouble deciding who all gets to go and who gets left behind?
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skyrider
The question that comes to my mind is......"Who wants to give up their Sunday, travel say 125 miles (one-way),
on a sweltering day, grab their dress clothes, change in the OSC bathrooms, walk over to the auditorium, sit
thru a 90-minute boring presentation of announcements & teachings, visit for 15 minutes afterward, go change
clothes, and drive back 125 miles TO FEEL PART OF THE TWI-COMMITMENT?"
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OldSkool
The STS (Sunday Teaching Service) as it has been renamed, happens at 3pm now. When I was around in 2008, it was EMPTY. There was also a host of unfilled staff positions, which made the emptiness even worse. So what did Rosalie and the gang do to try and hide the emptiness? They started scheduling field visits from across the country. Charter a bus(es) and coerce as many people as you can to get on board. The only problem is there aren't enough people left in TWI (or enough of them that want to participate) to do this every time there is a service. So most of the time the auditorium is EMPTY.
Let's define empty. Typically, without a bussed in audience, they had trouble filling the center of the first three rows. I kid you not. The only times the place came close to capacity was pentecost, the anniversary, and perhaps a concert where the local community was invited to attend. By community I mean all the various and sundry business contacts that showed up out of obligation. But then only the lower auditorium was used. The top is only used at pentecost and the anniversary - maybe.
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dabobbada
I see OldSkool has given a definitive answer to the question, and I will back it up with these observations:
For a few years, the Dayton station I get has occassionaly ran the the packaged for TV Sunday services. I haven't looked recently whether they still do it or not. I did watch all or portions of 4 or 5 episodes here and there and I was left with these impressions.
Everything was stiff, dull, and somehow running in an odd slow motion.
The music
The singing
Their shuffling, I cannot call it choreography
The teaching was dullest of all, and very basic, almost pre-pfal.
The smiles were ...creepy.
Not as good as I remembered, they were being genuine the best they could be, but it wasn't right.
The teachings were done from a small wooden podium in front of the closed curtains. The very large dark green curtains and the small podium gave an essence of of dark and gloominess which added to the measured slow pace of the teaching.
The stage area looked the same with the same curtains and props I had seen in the '80's and '90's, except duller, due to age I guess. Either that or they lack people who know how to to light and film a stage properly.
I found it interesting that most of the camera work was done from the balcony area. when they did a wide view shot, you could see some of the audience.
You never saw back more than 3 or 5 rows.
Occasionally, the rows were not filled all the way to the end.
Anyhow, that is what I remember from watching those episodes from 2 to 4 years ago. You can make of it what you want.
:B)
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skyrider
WOW....on a scale of 1-10 (with 10 as highest mark), twi couldn't hardly scratch out at #2
as far as cults are concerned.
Look at Scientology HQ....Click Here
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OldSkool
I taught a service - once. Thank God it was only once. The teachings are beyond scripted. You are assigned a topic, you work the topic using ONLY approved ministry "research", you turn in an outline for approval, once approved the outline is crafted into word for word notes that are resubmitted for approval --- oh, you also have to record yourself (on cassette) presenting the teaching and turn that in as well. The entire process is used to control every word spoken. By the time you get around to actually presenting you teaching all of "you" has been carefully removed from the teaching and presentation. All that is left is an individual with a creepy smile, scared to death of misspeaking, reading word for word from their notes. The content is purposefully dumbed down. Why? Because all of the teaching should be fully understood by a 12 year old all the way to an untaught (by TWI) senior citizen.
It was one of the most unnatural, uncomfortable experiences in relation to public speaking I was ever involved in.
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waysider
So much for "The New, Dynamic Church".
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OldSkool
Ya, that is just a meaningless TWI catchphrase.
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dabobbada
OldSkool,
If I remember right, you came in after pfal was laid to rest. Those of us who took it might remember:
There is a segment in pfal where vp talks of walking in the spirit and letting the spirit work within you as you teach, thusly uplifting the fellowship in the glory of the Lord. All are blessed, all are healed, all are rejoicing in the Lord and all needs are met.
And on the other hand......
His example of the standard wimpy ordained clergy was on monday, going to his office, pulling out some paper and starting his next sermon. tuesday, wednesday, thursday, and friday he keeps reworking, rewriting, editing and perfecting his notes for the sunday sermon. On saterday he types it out inj full and perfect form to be read on sunday.
Then vp bends over as if readinf from a page and in a slow deliberately mocking tone says:
"Dearly beloved brethren in the Lord."
Then he stands upright, looks into the camera and says:
"My God, isn't the spirit just working in that poor fellow."
There was a period in the '70's and early '80's where many took his example to heart and did their best to walk in the spirit and bless others as the class and ministry had exhorted us to do. It was the wonderful miraculous goodtimes that many of remember with such fondness.
Well RosyLie, please tell us again how you are the true holder of the twi legacy?
(I know you are snickering, Hinder!) <_<
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waysider
Yeah, I remember that. He also said that, through the week, "the adversary" would look at what he had written and then work to turn the congregation against it/him so that the message would be poorly received on Sunday morning. Personally, I think he was just trying to rationalize his own laziness and lack of preparation.
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dabobbada
waysider,
I think vp had that part right, Rosyli....., er, ...the adversary did go through OldSkools notes and he did have the most miserable of sundays.
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OldSkool
I finally understand.
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johniam
I visited southern CA 25 years ago. They had lanes of traffic on freeways designated as carpool lanes. If you drove in those lanes with less than 4 people in your car, you could get a ticket. Something like that. So people were putting mannequins in the front and back seats so they could use those lanes and save time.
Maybe at the STS twi could.....
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WordWolf
We've discussed this before.
It's listed as a non-profit organization.
If they just close shop and grab the money,
the IRS will go after them and put them in prison.
They have to pretend to actually do things to
provide "benefit of the doubt" so the government
just doesn't nail them for fraud or whatever.
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danteh1
I agree with ya word wolf.
bail = getting nailed
but i bet they have had a BIG brainstorming session.......if there were any brains left..........thinking about how they could do it. lol
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johniam
Couldn't they just dupe someone(s) and have them mind the store and when the IRS comes the twi people are gone and, but, but, I'm just the accountant!
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WordWolf
I'm sure Rosalie and Donna have pondered that same question, and came to the same conclusion-
with about $50 million missing, the IRS/FBI would follow them to the ends of the earth.
Current twi cadre have limited skills. They all (AFAIK) only speak English
(if Rupp is already on the outs, at least.) The number of countries they could flee to is
limited, and the IRS/CIA would find them easily. This is 2012. Everyone leaves a data trail.
The only way to drop that would be to go "off the grid"- but that would mean living in a tent
or a cabin somewhere with no electricity-which defeats the entire purpose of running off
with the money. They have more "benefits" by staying and milking the twi cash-cow,
and collecting the golden eggs than they'd have if they killed the golden goose looking
for the gold.
We're all confident the motivation of twi's top people is MONEY and LUXURIES. They'd all
leave and retire with the money if they could. I wonder how the remaining innies feel,
answering to people who are in it strictly for the paycheck...
So, 30% full is overly optimistic, and it's more like 5%-10% full except when there's
people bused in or brought in for a promotional event?
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OldSkool
Sounds about right to me.
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excathedra
i think they are already using mannequins in the audience -- even on stage perhaps
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waysider
Aren't the singing ladies really robots?
:P
"Chuck E. Cheese Over The World"
(C.O.W.)
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OldSkool
Why, whatever do you mean....
http://www.theway.org/multimedia.php?page=concert12_item02&lang=en
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outandabout
Well, I'm sure that with that great music, inspiring teachings and great outreach, the auditorium will be full to capacity in no time!
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johniam
quote:
I'm sure Rosalie and Donna have pondered that same question, and came to the same conclusion-
with about $50 million missing, the IRS/FBI would follow them to the ends of the earth.
OK. Another wrinkle. This reminds me of 2 lines from the first 'Die hard' movie. Bruce Willis asks Hans, the bad guy, "Why did you have to blow up the roof?" Hans says, "Because if you steal $600.00 you can just disappear, but if you steal 600 MILLION dollars, they WILL find you, unless they think you're already dead." So here's what twi should do.
Send invitations to everybody, spinoffs included. It'll be like Hezekiah's passover. All is forgiven, let's reconcile, it's all good...yeah, baby! Then during the big meeting, have a communion with poisoned wine. Everybody dies then they torch the WOW auditorium deliberately leaving a note behind saying that the word IS over the world and Christ HAS returned and they're gone to their private Idaho island and the IRS/FBI just might fall for it. Those cult people, y'know.
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waysider
John
I know you're just kidding......but, that's sick.
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