I would be praying and end a prayer in Jesus name... The people in the way would end it for me by saying Christ...
My wife explained to me that she has been taught that you must use Christ when saying Jesus because you would be talking to another Jesus...
Can someone explain this to me?
II Corinthians 11:4 says, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached..."
The Way spun this out into a whole doctrine of "devil spirits" named Jesus. That's how poor ignorant Christians who haven't had Power for Abundant Living can get supernatural results when they pray in the name of Jesus, even though they don't know the sixteen keys or any other TWI bs. It's a devil spirit answering THEIR prayers, and we wouldn't want that!
Since leaving TWI, I have come to realize God and Jesus are both capable of sorting mail, and they know who we are praying to, even when we don't.
I think, if I were around a bunch of Wafers right now, I'd start calling Him "Hay-soos", just to see what kind of a rise I could get out of them!
Another spin on this is found in PFAL (session 5?).... Geeze, it was 40 years ago, cut me some slack! LOL
This is the whole schtick that Wierdwille does on how, when He comes back, "He won't be coming back as the one who was spit on, beaten and humiliated, He'll be coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He'll be coming back as Lord God Almighty!"...(Yes, there were Trinitarian references in PFAL.)
Anyhow, this explains, to the neophite, why you are supposed to pray in the name of the victorious Christ, not the name of the humiliated Jesus.
Then, as you move on to the more so-called "advanced" teaching, the devil spirit aspect is introduced. In fact, it (the devil spirit aspect) receives a great deal of focus in the Advanced Class.
I think it was simply that if you only pray to "The Name Of Jesus", you are letting yourself open to praying to a devil spirit. Is their one? I don't know. But twi did. Their thinking was Jesus, the corner barber on Burlington St., or Jesus Kendall, a Dr. named after JC, wouldn't be effective enough when you were praying and you might end up having God hang up the receiver unless you specified it was Jesus Christ you were praying on behalf of. But I always prayed to God just in case.
...God and Jesus are both capable of sorting mail...
Thanks for that, Steve.
For me, any more...any demand that "you must say it this way" or that way...any deathgrip on words like that seems like the result of a very early stage of human faith. What can be described as magical and mythical faith involves a dependence on the "supernatural" power of specific words and sayings and stories (even holy canons)...mistaking the finger for the moon. Such mistakes even occurs in secular contexts. When someone says "that is not (fill in supernatural myth or story), it is really just the moon. Which is made up of ___ and ___, etc...". What we call the moon (and the things it is made of) existed long before we called it the moon, let alone any other name in any other language.
likewise, perhaps the one we call Jesus Christ has a name that is above all names. And we also have names that are beyond all names. And it is not that we will ever find "the right name"...but that the actual shape of things IS the name. NO words required. Although once we get this. we are free to use language without being enslaved by it.
What about the Word of God? Could it be referring to the actual universe (which includes the Bible)?
likewise, perhaps the one we call Jesus Christ has a name that is above all names. And we also have names that are beyond all names. And it is not that we will ever find "the right name"...but that the actual shape of things IS the name. NO words required. Although once we get this. we are free to use language without being enslaved by it.
Much freedom can be gleaned from taking this to heart.
Thanks.
Although it could be used abusively as well,
one would see the difference when dispersed, I would think.
Recommended Posts
Steve Lortz
II Corinthians 11:4 says, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached..."
The Way spun this out into a whole doctrine of "devil spirits" named Jesus. That's how poor ignorant Christians who haven't had Power for Abundant Living can get supernatural results when they pray in the name of Jesus, even though they don't know the sixteen keys or any other TWI bs. It's a devil spirit answering THEIR prayers, and we wouldn't want that!
Since leaving TWI, I have come to realize God and Jesus are both capable of sorting mail, and they know who we are praying to, even when we don't.
I think, if I were around a bunch of Wafers right now, I'd start calling Him "Hay-soos", just to see what kind of a rise I could get out of them!
Love,
Steve
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Another spin on this is found in PFAL (session 5?).... Geeze, it was 40 years ago, cut me some slack! LOL
This is the whole schtick that Wierdwille does on how, when He comes back, "He won't be coming back as the one who was spit on, beaten and humiliated, He'll be coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He'll be coming back as Lord God Almighty!"...(Yes, there were Trinitarian references in PFAL.)
Anyhow, this explains, to the neophite, why you are supposed to pray in the name of the victorious Christ, not the name of the humiliated Jesus.
Then, as you move on to the more so-called "advanced" teaching, the devil spirit aspect is introduced. In fact, it (the devil spirit aspect) receives a great deal of focus in the Advanced Class.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Human without the bean
I think it was simply that if you only pray to "The Name Of Jesus", you are letting yourself open to praying to a devil spirit. Is their one? I don't know. But twi did. Their thinking was Jesus, the corner barber on Burlington St., or Jesus Kendall, a Dr. named after JC, wouldn't be effective enough when you were praying and you might end up having God hang up the receiver unless you specified it was Jesus Christ you were praying on behalf of. But I always prayed to God just in case.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
For me, any more...any demand that "you must say it this way" or that way...any deathgrip on words like that seems like the result of a very early stage of human faith. What can be described as magical and mythical faith involves a dependence on the "supernatural" power of specific words and sayings and stories (even holy canons)...mistaking the finger for the moon. Such mistakes even occurs in secular contexts. When someone says "that is not (fill in supernatural myth or story), it is really just the moon. Which is made up of ___ and ___, etc...". What we call the moon (and the things it is made of) existed long before we called it the moon, let alone any other name in any other language.
likewise, perhaps the one we call Jesus Christ has a name that is above all names. And we also have names that are beyond all names. And it is not that we will ever find "the right name"...but that the actual shape of things IS the name. NO words required. Although once we get this. we are free to use language without being enslaved by it.
What about the Word of God? Could it be referring to the actual universe (which includes the Bible)?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cman
Much freedom can be gleaned from taking this to heart.
Thanks.
Although it could be used abusively as well,
one would see the difference when dispersed, I would think.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
faith no more
god last
and do you get answers either way?
the answer is 'no'
Edited by faith no moreLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.