Willing to be third

[OldSkool]

From somewhere, either through imagination or plagiarism, Wierwille collected all sorts of pithy sayings. The implication was he was such a deep thinker with such a Bible saturated conscience that he coined these little phrases.

Anywho, one that really hits me in the gonads is:

"God first, others second, I am willing to be third."

I had this saying shoveled down my throat so many, many times during my time in TWI. It was used to justify all the sacrifice I was required to make for the way international. Wierwille was used as the image to follow and it was plainly stated this was how he lived.

Really? Wierwille lived at the top of the heap. No convenience was out of his reach. He was addicted to creature comforts of all varieties. Planes, motor coaches, women galore, booze at his fingertips, an army of followers catering to his every need, a wife that was at his disposal, motorcycles for his leisure - and I am just scratching the surface.

I wish I could excuse his protégées for being different, but they aren't. Ya, you talk about private inurements ever since you started listening to your lawyers but all you directors still demand the highest servitude from subordinates, all so you can spend your time shuffling papers in your various and sundry meetings.

You all do nothing but put your selves first, like greedy little pigs. And of course teach others that putting you first is putting God first.

[chockfull]

I'm sure VP plagiarized that statement from somewhere....

[WordWolf]

I'm sure VP plagiarized that statement from somewhere....

This being the dawn of the information age,

it only takes a quick web-search to discover that there's LOTS of Christians who say this

in a few forms (changing a word or 2 is STILL plagiarism when one is plagiarizing.)

vpw was fond of using the works of others and making it sound AS IF he meant them.

However, they were just repeated and PERFORMED, so the words were empty when he said them.

vpw was NOT putting God first when he organized twi so that all activities turned a profit

no matter how small. vpw was NOT putting God first when he used only the cheapest materials

for most things, then spent on luxuries for himself. He wasn't putting second and himself

third when he was smoking and drinking every day, and demanding others quit smoking,

and expecting them to host him wherever he went (which they did and he never paid for any

of his expenses that they shouldered- in fact, people often took up collections so he

could be put up for free and leave with money in his hand.)

vpw put HIMSELF first, and God and others were a FAR distant second, and tied for second.

Actually, they were probably third, and "anything that delivers money and luxuries to me"

was second.

[Rejoice]

"God first, others second, I am willing to be third."

The NFL football player used that as the title for his book [published in 1970]about his friendship with Brian Piccolo. The movie was made in 1971.

Gale Sayers was a "great running back on the field and a great friend off the field" says Brian. The story includes the importance of faith in Gale Sayer's life. He concludes "The lord is first, my friends are second, and I am third."

http://www.amazon.com/Am-Third-TV-tie--Inspiration/dp/0142000752/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335989292&sr=8-1

Yep---another plagiarsim from that cornfield preacher-thief!

[OldSkool]

Yep---another plagiarsim from that cornfield preacher-thief!

He ripped off a Brian's song?

[waysider]

Is there a scriptural basis for this cliche or is it just another "Well, Dr. said....."?

[OldSkool]

Is there a scriptural basis for this cliche or is it just another "Well, Dr. said....."?

Just a quote used in the all holy book of quotes sold by twi - "Life Lines: Quotations of Victor Paul Wierwille"

Oh, the dr said them, so that makes them the spoken word, so no scriptural basis needed.

[Rejoice]

He ripped off a Brian's song?

YEP!

[Naten00]

I think that is one of those...

"Do as I say not as I do" type things...

every corporate leader does this.... Expect anything more?

[OldSkool]

Expect anything more?

No, I expect nothing less.

Today these quotes are mandatory reading in-residence, at least we were required to read them. As if some little spiritual epiphany is at the center of each one and only attained by meditation. Basically, they are treated as "the Word" because they are in a book with wierwille's name on it.

Sad to see that most of them were probably ripped off from made for TV movies. :blink:

Edited May 3, 2012 by OldSkool

[Twinky]

Old Skool ... "Lifelines" is required reading now?

And no doubt - when someone else uses the same words - a writer, actor, on TV - of course that person has pinched it from VPW's words of wisdom. Could never be the other way round, could it?

[Naten00]

Is there a page on here with all of the stolen quotes and original sources....

Where VPW obviously claims them as his own...

[WordWolf]

Is there a page on here with all of the stolen quotes and original sources....

Where VPW obviously claims them as his own...

You're welcome to start a new thread for that and name it appropriately so later arrivals

can find it.

I'll give you a headstart.

A thread about a poem that vpw placed his name on as author, which was clearly plagiarized

by him and others. (If you do a websearch now, you'll "find" that the "author" wasn't even

ALIVE when vpw's put his name on it, and when at least one other form was extant with

an author's name.

I previously found it on websites discussing the loss of a loved one, without the "last line"

used by vpw.

[WordWolf]

The previous poem was credited to Guadalupe de Saavedra in 1973.

=================

Another poem has been heard to have been credited to vpw, and its discussion is here:

[WordWolf]

Part of the problem with discussions like this is the issue of PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY.

Horace Greeley has been remembered as having said "Go West, young man."

I've read that he repeatedly tried to credit the correct source during his lifetime.

When it comes to "things vpw authored", there's the things he put his name on, and

the things he (rarely) credited correctly or cited correctly, and the things he

left with NO name- and twi'ers were enculturated to make the obvious assumption that

it meant HE wrote it because he didn't include a source.

Sometimes he DID cite a source- then went on and failed to do so with the same

writing at other times. This came up with the poem "about" the way corps which

was taken from a college- supposedly with full atrribution, although I never heard

it attributed when I was in.

It was actually from Henry Van Dyke's "Spirit of the Everlasting Boy."

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/9207/

IV

What constitutes a school?

Not ancient halls and ivy-mantled towers,

Where dull traditions rule

With heavy hand youth's lightly springing powers;

Not spacious pleasure courts,

And lofty temples of athletic fame,

Where devotees of sports

Mistake a pastime for life's highest aim;

Not fashion, nor renown

Of wealthy patronage and rich estate;

No, none of these can crown

A school with light and make it truly great.

But masters, strong and wise,

Who teach because they love the teacher's task,

And find their richest prize

In eyes that open and in minds that ask;"

This, of course, is neither the beginning nor the end of that poem,

but it was all that vpw used, which he probably took from a school

that used this part of the poem. I was told he cited his source,

but I never heard it given when I heard the "poem" (partial poem)

in twi.

Does it count as plagiarized when he SOMETIMES gave the source?

I think that depends on specifics. Someone claimed that vpw never claimed he wrote everything

that he put his name and copyright on (which, legally, is saying he wrote it)

because one of his books (TW:LiL) has an off-the-cuff comment buried over 100 pages in where

he says that "nothing I do is original", and that this means he wasn't claiming to have

authored all the books and classes he listed himself as the author of.

Few of us would buy into such a detailed hallucination that would make this an acceptable

line of "reasoning." However, between "he never plagiarized" and "every utterance of his

mouth from childhood on was taken from someone else" is a lot of ground.

Judging from eyewitness accounts of caches of books he used when teaching "his" stuff, and

things that have been proven conclusively here and other websites, it seems clear that MUCH

of vpw's time in twi if not MOST of his time in twi, vpw was teaching the work of other

Christians- stitched together with flowing oratory and pontification- which was his actual

course of study (homiletics/preaching, not "Bible languages" as he seemed to suggest).

As such, we can often find surprising sources here and there among "his" material.

Me, I'm an eclecticist. I believe there's value in drawing from the best of different sources.

I find nothing wrong with that. The criminal act is in taking what you found from different

sources and claiming you authored it rather than giving all the credit that is due.

[OldSkool]

The criminal act is in taking what you found from different

sources and claiming you authored it rather than giving all the credit that is due.

Not to mention stating it had not been known since the first century church and stating that God had taught him and he took his 3000 reference books to the city dump and stayed in a hotel eating grapes while penning Receiving Holy Spirit Today and.....ok.....did I kill the point yet?

[OldSkool]

Old Skool ... "Lifelines" is required reading now?

I seem to remember being required to read it several times, though I do not remember if it was on the in-rez prep list for required reading. I do remember working the material though. My wife also remembers it being shoved down her gullet as well for various occasions.

And....yes....

[GeorgeStGeorge]

Plagiarism is willfully taking credit for another's work. (A problem I have when I'm writing marches, is that I've heard so many of them over the years that I'm not sure if I'm composing or remembering!) As WordWolf points out, there are a number of times when VPW was clearly guilty of this. On the other hand, in this particular case, he could simply have been reciting a cliche. I might say, "Better safe than sorry." Most people would recognize that, though there might be some who haven't heard it who would think, That's clever. I didn't say I was quoting someone else, but I didn't imply that it was an original saying, either. Now, did VPW steal it from the Brian Piccolo story? Maybe. Or maybe he just heard someone else say it and thought it was a nice saying to use.

George

Edited May 3, 2012 by GeorgeStGeorge

[OldSkool]

Google is mysterious in it's ways.

Dr. Wierwille suggested this book of quotations himself in September of 1984. It was released on December 31, 1985 in honor of his birthday. None of the quotations came from published materials but were sent in to the editor, as remembered, by many individuals from letters and sharings.

And therein lies my problem. It's not that he quoted another source - giving credit or not. It's that he takes claim for them based on other's memories of what he said. It's bogus.

Edited May 3, 2012 by OldSkool

[Ham]

"God first, others second, I am willing to be third."

maybe in practice this is "I am self if not otherwise conditioned to EXPECT third place.."

[Hopefull]

The quote I heard was, "Love God, love yourself, love others; serve God, serve others, serve yourself". Still like it. Just sayin.

[OldSkool]

The quote I heard was, "Love God, love yourself, love others; serve God, serve others, serve yourself". Still like it. Just sayin.

I like that version.

I don't like the Lifelines version though, just sayin. :blush:

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Too bad Wierwille didn't follow that advice, Love God, love and serve others, finally love yourself(but don't be egotitical about it)

[excathedra]

after wierwille and the mrs. and the other board of TRUSTees, and the international coordinator and the worldwide outreach coordination and the limb leaders, and the president's cabinet and every other tom, dick and harry, i am willing to be LAST lol

[waysider]

I'm willing to be last......last in line to ever revisit that muddy cornfield in Podunk, USA.