When a man administers a date rape drug to a woman, and then has sex with her, it's not adultery, it's rape. This was VP (you know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille's modus operandi. (There is first hand testimony here on GSC.) Also, when a person abuses a position of authority and trust, whether it be a policeman, a teacher, a therapist or a clergyman, it's no longer "adultery", it's rape..
................................................
"i bet "WE"(yes me to) would still be wondering whats up if VP hadnt done all the research for us."
I don't think you've really been paying attention too closely. Wierwille, in fact, didn't do that "research", he plagiarized it....sometimes word-for-word...from other sources.
When a man administers a date rape drug to a woman, and then has sex with her, it's not adultery, it's rape. This was VP (you know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille's modus operandi. (There is first hand testimony here on GSC.) Also, when a person abuses a position of authority and trust, whether it be a policeman, a teacher, a therapist or a clergyman, it's no longer "adultery", it's rape..
when these women come foward and give their names and swear to GOD they are telling the truth otherwise they will kill over as Annanias and Sapphira killed over in acts ch 5:1-10 and they remian alive then and only then will i give a listen. otherwise these are nothing but devilish evil lies that evil people are spreading. remember , everyone gives account to GOD. you know , if i wanted to i could wait till you die and make up stuff about you and theres no way you could defend yourself. i want to hear this from those it happened to ! do you know who John Race is ?
"i bet "WE"(yes me to) would still be wondering whats up if VP hadnt done all the research for us."
I don't think you've really been paying attention too closely. Wierwille, in fact, didn't do that "research", he plagiarized it....sometimes word-for-word...from other sources.
and ? at least he got it out here. why didnt those other people get that knowledge out ? maybe VP had permission. when someone teaches how the bible interprets itself are they plagiarizing twi,VP , or someone else ? i say no and thats beacuse THE WORD say its not for private interpretation. so if we use your thinking and i teach someone how to read the bible i'm could be accused of plagiarizing the bible. if i show someone a better way to pull the 4 speed out of a 65 mustang and soemone else has already ben doing it my way but i dont know and take credit for the better idea am i plagiarizing ? no, not if i didnt know soemone else aready had the same idea before me. btw i could be accused of teaching class material when i teach someone how to get born again, or lead someone into SIT. but teaching THE WORD isnt class material, its GODS WORD. anyone that teaches the bible isnt plagiarizing anyone. however if i use a chart that somoeone else made and say i made it then theres a problem. if i never looked at anyones chart and made one thet looked just like someone elses i could be accused of plagiarizing however i wouldnt be. kinda like the other night i was listening to SRV song "if the house is a rockin". i was taping my hands to the song and decided to add the same drum break at the same time to the song that the drummer on the song did. i LOL and thought , wow i'v ben playing so long i just know from experience when and where and what kind od drum brakes are used on songs. i wasnt cpoying the gut cause i never heard the song. i could however be accused of plagiarizing if i said i came with the drum brak even though i did.
when these women come foward and give their names and swear to GOD they are telling the truth otherwise they will kill over as Annanias and Sapphira killed over in acts ch 5:1-10 and they remian alive then and only then will i give a listen. otherwise these are nothing but devilish evil lies that evil people are spreading. remember , everyone gives account to GOD. you know , if i wanted to i could wait till you die and make up stuff about you and theres no way you could defend yourself. i want to hear this from those it happened to ! do you know who John Race is ?
Nope. No idea who he is. Should I?
BTW....The PFAL class actually started out as a class by B.G. Leonard called Gifts of The Holy Spirit. Wierwille sat through the class in Canada, came back to Ohio and started teaching it as his own. Over the years, he added materials from other authors, such as Stiles and Bullinger.
Oh, but wait! Didn't Wierwille say God told him He would teach it to him like it hadn't been known since the first century? <_<
yeah you should know who John Race is. that is Captian John Race , and co-pilot Courdolla(might have misspelled his name). John Race is the believer and only one that was the pilot of ambassador 1 the name of the convair 580 that VP flew around in. he and the co-pilot never witnessed anything that you say VP did. obviously you wernt around when VP was alive. everybody that was around back them knew who blond haired slim built John Race was. there were even a couple of way magazines with them in it. after a flyover they could be seen. you do remeber the flyovers dont you ?
Well, if this stuff hadn't been known since the first century, how can it be that all these other guys already knew it?
BTW...Bullinger died in 1913....Who copied whom?
if they did they kept it to themselves. if i have knowledge and dont share it you will never know it. if someone else learns the knowledge i have and shares it they get credit for it. those other guys should have taught what they knew like VP did.
"John Race is the believer and only one that was the pilot of ambassador 1"
Really??
I thought Frank Cardullo piloted the plane, as well. Whadda ya know!
go back and reread my reply, i mentioned Frank Cardullo and i put in parenthesis i might have spelled his name wrong. John was the captian and Frank was the co-pilot. my point was that these were the only 2 guys that flew the plane. there were no other pilots. you understand now ?
Yeah, I think it's OK to cover expenses. Oh, wait, what expenses? Let's see. Class locations were usually gratis, refreshments were paid for by the locals, labor was voluntary....
O God, another Jonathiam and Mike clone. Yes VPW has replaced Jesus Christ as the the Messiah returned. BTW, I find Bullinger, Kenyon, Stiles, Leonard, etc. more honest than Wierwille and most of them were Trinitarians. If the truth about him had been known back in the 70's, very few would have believed his "vision", the man was totally delusional, and how dare you compare him to Christ, Paul, Peter, etc. Slandering them by equating them and VPW.
Ah, come on, Thomas. Give the poor guy a break. He did, after all, invent the hook shot, play pro hoops, invent McDonald's and command God to make a snowstorm appear, just for him. And, the snow was so heavy, the sky turned pitch black.hahahahaha!
Ohhhh! I almost forgot. He knew a secret way to make snow explode. How cool is that?
how many of you have done like they did in the book of acts and seen if the stuff VP preached is so ? when the believers in the book of acts taught THE WORD it says they searched the scriptures daily to se if the things the believers taught were according to GODS WORD. and why cant it snow for a few mi nutes in the summer and then melt away in a few minutes. i'm from missippi and suddensly the nice sunny sky would turn jet black and the wind , rain , hail , and sometimes tornados will whip up out of nowhere and as soon as the storm came it over quickly. sometimes the storms would last a little. saw the tornado that hit hazelhurst around 1969. getting ready for school and the sky turned black and a funel cloud passed right over the house and suddenly the sky was clear again. my grandmother freaked out. i was on outreach in alabama with some believers from places far away. the sky turned jet black and the tornado sirens went off and everybody buy me freaked ! i told them thats normal for this part of the country and a tornado is somewhere around here. i think they were wishing they were somewhere else. so VP seeing snow in the warm weather is no big deal to me. it hails in missippi in the summer. it can also snow in the summer if the conditions are right, and yes the snow will melt very fast like hail melts very fast unless its really big hail. oh hail !
were those of you that accuse VP of adultry, rape, drug & rape actually there and see it happen ? answer with a yes or no
how many of you have done like they did in the book of acts and seen if the stuff VP preached is so ? ...
I also took PFAL in 1980 and stayed with TWI until a friend of mine told me she had been propositioned by Martindale. I believed her. I still do. I disassociated from TWI in 1987.
Since then, I have searched the Scriptures, not always on a daily basis, but often enough. I have seen that the stuff VP preached is NOT so, and you can see it too, if you just read what's written.
Wierwille taught that Romans 11:20, "...Be not highminded, but fear", was addressed to gentiles, not to Christians. That's just not so. It was addressed to Christians who had come to Christ from gentile backgrounds. Paul, writing by the Spirit of God, said that we ARE to apply that verse in our lives.
The Greek word "oikonomia", which Wierwille translated "administration" appears only seven times in the whole New Testament, and it is NEVER used to indicate a period of time. There is NO "age of the grace of God", NO "church age" and NO "age of the mystery".
II Timothy 3:16 can be accurately construed as saying: "ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine. ALL Scripture is profitable for reproof. ALL Scripture is profitable for correction. ALL Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness. And the Scripture Paul was referring to was the OLD TESTAMENT! Yet Wierwille recklessly sliced and diced God's Word with his erroneous "rightly dividing the word of truth".
Worst of all, Wierwille taught that HIS understanding of the Bible... HIS private interpretation... took the place of the "absent" Christ.
To Wierwille's way of thinking, Jesus Christ isn't even still around. We are each one of us our own little "Lord", with "Christ in you, Christ in you, Christ in YOU! The hope of GLAWRY!!!!"
Read the Bible for yourself! It just doesn't say what Wierwille made us think it says!
The 2008 report was the last time they had to report assets. It was around 57 million. And the Wierwille farm would hardly be worth millions. They made that money through the business they are engaged in. Selling classes and receiving charitable donations. So what charitable activities are they engaged in? Fellowships are free but the way doesn't provide those. They are provided by volunteers at their own expense. Tithes/ABS are sent to HQ and the money NEVER returns.
Shifthis. You said if you called TWI they would do a financial disclosure. Have you done that yet?
Shift. what it seems you are saying is no matter harm Wierwille allegedly did (it's likely rumor anyway acc. to you) the good he did in "moving the word" out weighs any of it. Please correct me if I am wrong.
and why cant it snow for a few mi nutes in the summer and then melt away in a few minutes. i'm from missippi and suddensly the nice sunny sky would turn jet black and the wind , rain , hail , and sometimes tornados will whip up out of nowhere and as soon as the storm came it over quickly. sometimes the storms would last a little. saw the tornado that hit hazelhurst around 1969. getting ready for school and the sky turned black and a funel cloud passed right over the house and suddenly the sky was clear again. my grandmother freaked out. i was on outreach in alabama with some believers from places far away. the sky turned jet black and the tornado sirens went off and everybody buy me freaked ! i told them thats normal for this part of the country and a tornado is somewhere around here. i think they were wishing they were somewhere else. so VP seeing snow in the warm weather is no big deal to me. it hails in missippi in the summer. it can also snow in the summer if the conditions are right, and yes the snow will melt very fast like hail melts very fast unless its really big hail. oh hail !
Your describing naturally occurring severe weather patterns that are normal. Wierwille is quoted as saying (From TWLIL by Whiteside)
The sky was crystal blue and clear. Not a cloud in sight. It was a beautiful early autumn day, I said, "If that was really you, and you meant what you said, give me a sign. Let me see it snow." My eyes were tightly shut as I prayed. And then I opened them.
The sky was so white and thick with snow, I couldn't see the tanks at the filling station on the corner not 75 feet away.
Do you see the difference? One occurs naturally while the other was cited as a confirmation of the following supposed conversation with God. Basically, Vic confirmed his chosen man of God status with this story. Put himself on a level playing field with Paul. (same source):
I was praying. And I told the Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on.
And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others.
Well I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe God would talk to me...But He spoke to me just as plainly as I'm talking now to you.
How does this even compare to you witnessing with people from out of town and a summertime thunderstorm versus Wierwille's claim?
By the way. The following claim falls flat because all of Wierwille's works can be traced to contemporary sources. Nevermind the first century Church.
He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others.
excathedra who posts here was one of wierwille's victims. if you use the search function you can find her story. there are a number of others if you take the time to look. however, you may not take the time, and probably won't believe them. in my experience, people asking for firsthand accounts around here are looking to discount them. TWI's evil is very real and very documented. Also, if you look up John Juedes, a mainstream denominational Christian pastor, he has plenty of documented stories. He outwardly opposes TWI so plenty of people have contacted him over the years.
i personally know a person whose first marriage ended because of infidelity surrounding martindale's harem and numerous indiscretions. there are also lawsuits on file and transcripts from depositions from them available to read. pressure from these lawsuits forced twi to settle two lawsuits for undisclosed amounts (but damages were in the millions in the filed paperwork).
i'm sorry if the truth of the matter is shocking to you, but that makes it no less the truth.
how many of you have done like they did in the book of acts and seen if the stuff VP preached is so ?
even more than that, many of us who post here have centered our lives around what VP preached for decades and attempted to live, move, and prosper under his teachings. God has honored our hearts and done things for us in spite of the corruption of the organization. over time we've come face to face with that darkness within the organization, and moved in different directions. in my opinion, those who remain and have been around all have had to "sell out" to rationalize the evil within the org and still support it. i could not justify doing that.
when the believers in the book of acts taught THE WORD it says they searched the scriptures daily to se if the things the believers taught were according to GODS WORD. and why cant it snow for a few mi nutes in the summer and then melt away in a few minutes. i'm from missippi and suddensly the nice sunny sky would turn jet black and the wind , rain , hail , and sometimes tornados will whip up out of nowhere and as soon as the storm came it over quickly. sometimes the storms would last a little. saw the tornado that hit hazelhurst around 1969. getting ready for school and the sky turned black and a funel cloud passed right over the house and suddenly the sky was clear again. my grandmother freaked out. i was on outreach in alabama with some believers from places far away. the sky turned jet black and the tornado sirens went off and everybody buy me freaked ! i told them thats normal for this part of the country and a tornado is somewhere around here. i think they were wishing they were somewhere else. so VP seeing snow in the warm weather is no big deal to me. it hails in missippi in the summer. it can also snow in the summer if the conditions are right, and yes the snow will melt very fast like hail melts very fast unless its really big hail. oh hail !
it's not that we don't believe God could pull off phenomena related to the weather. it's that after examining TWI and the fruit of the organization, including the fruit of VP's life in its entirety, it's far more likely something that vp made up in retrospect to try and foster his reputation among the young hippies as "The Teacher" or sole pipeline to the heart of God. it's recorded here on this site vp's organizational freeze out tactics and takeover tactics with the original fellowships in the Groovy Christian eras - both on the West Coast and East Coast with Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner.
in fact, reading that today, to me it seems much more similar to Joseph Smith's elaborate tale talking to the angel Moroni that founded the Mormons than it does a genuine Christian experience.
in my experience, people asking for firsthand accounts around here are looking to discount them.
How much more of a firsthand account than excathedra or Kristen Skedgell does a person need? Wouldn't a witness to a married, 50 something, "minister" having sex on a motor coach with a young lady in her early twenties be hard to come by anyway? Usually things of this nature happen in private is my point. So throwing out the need for a first hand eye witness is sort of asking the impossible. Not to mention discrediting the victim to excuse Wierwille's indiscretions.
But some people will do whatever they can to postpone their date with reality. I remember being the same way. Take evil actions such as committed by Wierwille, Martindale, and Rosalie (she covered it up) and rationalize them away.
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Steve Lortz
Well, I went to the TLTF website and found out about their "The End Times" seminar (!?!), eight 40-minute segments on dispensationalism. I just finished two semesters of Constructive Theology, in w
Steve Lortz
I think you hit the nail on the head, OldSkool, when you used the phrase "extreme highmindedness". Romans 11:20 says "Be not highminded, but fear:" Wierwille expressly taught in foundational PFAL tha
Steve Lortz
I've been giving this some more thought. After I took Power for Abundant Living, I thought that I was a better Christian. Whether or not I really was is something for the Lord Jesus Christ to judge,
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waysider
When a man administers a date rape drug to a woman, and then has sex with her, it's not adultery, it's rape. This was VP (you know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille's modus operandi. (There is first hand testimony here on GSC.) Also, when a person abuses a position of authority and trust, whether it be a policeman, a teacher, a therapist or a clergyman, it's no longer "adultery", it's rape..
................................................
"i bet "WE"(yes me to) would still be wondering whats up if VP hadnt done all the research for us."
I don't think you've really been paying attention too closely. Wierwille, in fact, didn't do that "research", he plagiarized it....sometimes word-for-word...from other sources.
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shiftthis
when these women come foward and give their names and swear to GOD they are telling the truth otherwise they will kill over as Annanias and Sapphira killed over in acts ch 5:1-10 and they remian alive then and only then will i give a listen. otherwise these are nothing but devilish evil lies that evil people are spreading. remember , everyone gives account to GOD. you know , if i wanted to i could wait till you die and make up stuff about you and theres no way you could defend yourself. i want to hear this from those it happened to ! do you know who John Race is ?
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shiftthis
and ? at least he got it out here. why didnt those other people get that knowledge out ? maybe VP had permission. when someone teaches how the bible interprets itself are they plagiarizing twi,VP , or someone else ? i say no and thats beacuse THE WORD say its not for private interpretation. so if we use your thinking and i teach someone how to read the bible i'm could be accused of plagiarizing the bible. if i show someone a better way to pull the 4 speed out of a 65 mustang and soemone else has already ben doing it my way but i dont know and take credit for the better idea am i plagiarizing ? no, not if i didnt know soemone else aready had the same idea before me. btw i could be accused of teaching class material when i teach someone how to get born again, or lead someone into SIT. but teaching THE WORD isnt class material, its GODS WORD. anyone that teaches the bible isnt plagiarizing anyone. however if i use a chart that somoeone else made and say i made it then theres a problem. if i never looked at anyones chart and made one thet looked just like someone elses i could be accused of plagiarizing however i wouldnt be. kinda like the other night i was listening to SRV song "if the house is a rockin". i was taping my hands to the song and decided to add the same drum break at the same time to the song that the drummer on the song did. i LOL and thought , wow i'v ben playing so long i just know from experience when and where and what kind od drum brakes are used on songs. i wasnt cpoying the gut cause i never heard the song. i could however be accused of plagiarizing if i said i came with the drum brak even though i did.
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waysider
Nope. No idea who he is. Should I?
BTW....The PFAL class actually started out as a class by B.G. Leonard called Gifts of The Holy Spirit. Wierwille sat through the class in Canada, came back to Ohio and started teaching it as his own. Over the years, he added materials from other authors, such as Stiles and Bullinger.
Oh, but wait! Didn't Wierwille say God told him He would teach it to him like it hadn't been known since the first century? <_<
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shiftthis
yes , didnt you take the pfal class ?
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waysider
Well, if this stuff hadn't been known since the first century, how can it be that all these other guys already knew it?
BTW...Bullinger died in 1913....Who copied whom?
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shiftthis
yeah you should know who John Race is. that is Captian John Race , and co-pilot Courdolla(might have misspelled his name). John Race is the believer and only one that was the pilot of ambassador 1 the name of the convair 580 that VP flew around in. he and the co-pilot never witnessed anything that you say VP did. obviously you wernt around when VP was alive. everybody that was around back them knew who blond haired slim built John Race was. there were even a couple of way magazines with them in it. after a flyover they could be seen. you do remeber the flyovers dont you ?
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waysider
"John Race is the believer and only one that was the pilot of ambassador 1"
Really??
I thought Frank Cardullo piloted the plane, as well. Whadda ya know!
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shiftthis
if they did they kept it to themselves. if i have knowledge and dont share it you will never know it. if someone else learns the knowledge i have and shares it they get credit for it. those other guys should have taught what they knew like VP did.
go back and reread my reply, i mentioned Frank Cardullo and i put in parenthesis i might have spelled his name wrong. John was the captian and Frank was the co-pilot. my point was that these were the only 2 guys that flew the plane. there were no other pilots. you understand now ?
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waysider
.....................
Well, anyhow, charging for classes....
Yeah, I think it's OK to cover expenses. Oh, wait, what expenses? Let's see. Class locations were usually gratis, refreshments were paid for by the locals, labor was voluntary....
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
O God, another Jonathiam and Mike clone. Yes VPW has replaced Jesus Christ as the the Messiah returned. BTW, I find Bullinger, Kenyon, Stiles, Leonard, etc. more honest than Wierwille and most of them were Trinitarians. If the truth about him had been known back in the 70's, very few would have believed his "vision", the man was totally delusional, and how dare you compare him to Christ, Paul, Peter, etc. Slandering them by equating them and VPW.
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waysider
Ah, come on, Thomas. Give the poor guy a break. He did, after all, invent the hook shot, play pro hoops, invent McDonald's and command God to make a snowstorm appear, just for him. And, the snow was so heavy, the sky turned pitch black.hahahahaha!
Ohhhh! I almost forgot. He knew a secret way to make snow explode. How cool is that?
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shiftthis
how many of you have done like they did in the book of acts and seen if the stuff VP preached is so ? when the believers in the book of acts taught THE WORD it says they searched the scriptures daily to se if the things the believers taught were according to GODS WORD. and why cant it snow for a few mi nutes in the summer and then melt away in a few minutes. i'm from missippi and suddensly the nice sunny sky would turn jet black and the wind , rain , hail , and sometimes tornados will whip up out of nowhere and as soon as the storm came it over quickly. sometimes the storms would last a little. saw the tornado that hit hazelhurst around 1969. getting ready for school and the sky turned black and a funel cloud passed right over the house and suddenly the sky was clear again. my grandmother freaked out. i was on outreach in alabama with some believers from places far away. the sky turned jet black and the tornado sirens went off and everybody buy me freaked ! i told them thats normal for this part of the country and a tornado is somewhere around here. i think they were wishing they were somewhere else. so VP seeing snow in the warm weather is no big deal to me. it hails in missippi in the summer. it can also snow in the summer if the conditions are right, and yes the snow will melt very fast like hail melts very fast unless its really big hail. oh hail !
were those of you that accuse VP of adultry, rape, drug & rape actually there and see it happen ? answer with a yes or no
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Steve Lortz
I also took PFAL in 1980 and stayed with TWI until a friend of mine told me she had been propositioned by Martindale. I believed her. I still do. I disassociated from TWI in 1987.
Since then, I have searched the Scriptures, not always on a daily basis, but often enough. I have seen that the stuff VP preached is NOT so, and you can see it too, if you just read what's written.
Wierwille taught that Romans 11:20, "...Be not highminded, but fear", was addressed to gentiles, not to Christians. That's just not so. It was addressed to Christians who had come to Christ from gentile backgrounds. Paul, writing by the Spirit of God, said that we ARE to apply that verse in our lives.
The Greek word "oikonomia", which Wierwille translated "administration" appears only seven times in the whole New Testament, and it is NEVER used to indicate a period of time. There is NO "age of the grace of God", NO "church age" and NO "age of the mystery".
II Timothy 3:16 can be accurately construed as saying: "ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine. ALL Scripture is profitable for reproof. ALL Scripture is profitable for correction. ALL Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness. And the Scripture Paul was referring to was the OLD TESTAMENT! Yet Wierwille recklessly sliced and diced God's Word with his erroneous "rightly dividing the word of truth".
Worst of all, Wierwille taught that HIS understanding of the Bible... HIS private interpretation... took the place of the "absent" Christ.
To Wierwille's way of thinking, Jesus Christ isn't even still around. We are each one of us our own little "Lord", with "Christ in you, Christ in you, Christ in YOU! The hope of GLAWRY!!!!"
Read the Bible for yourself! It just doesn't say what Wierwille made us think it says!
Love,
Steve
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waysider
There are people here who can answer that with a "yes".
Be careful what you wish for.
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shiftthis
well , i'm waiting , who are you ?
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OldSkool
Shifthis. You said if you called TWI they would do a financial disclosure. Have you done that yet?
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waysider
Well, this thread has evolved (Don't they all?) into something that would be better suited for the About The Way forum.
Soooo...It may take interested parties a while to see this here and respond.
In the meantime, perhaps you would care for some reading materials?
HEREand HERE
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OldSkool
Shift. what it seems you are saying is no matter harm Wierwille allegedly did (it's likely rumor anyway acc. to you) the good he did in "moving the word" out weighs any of it. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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OldSkool
Your describing naturally occurring severe weather patterns that are normal. Wierwille is quoted as saying (From TWLIL by Whiteside)
Do you see the difference? One occurs naturally while the other was cited as a confirmation of the following supposed conversation with God. Basically, Vic confirmed his chosen man of God status with this story. Put himself on a level playing field with Paul. (same source):
How does this even compare to you witnessing with people from out of town and a summertime thunderstorm versus Wierwille's claim?
By the way. The following claim falls flat because all of Wierwille's works can be traced to contemporary sources. Nevermind the first century Church.
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chockfull
excathedra who posts here was one of wierwille's victims. if you use the search function you can find her story. there are a number of others if you take the time to look. however, you may not take the time, and probably won't believe them. in my experience, people asking for firsthand accounts around here are looking to discount them. TWI's evil is very real and very documented. Also, if you look up John Juedes, a mainstream denominational Christian pastor, he has plenty of documented stories. He outwardly opposes TWI so plenty of people have contacted him over the years.
i personally know a person whose first marriage ended because of infidelity surrounding martindale's harem and numerous indiscretions. there are also lawsuits on file and transcripts from depositions from them available to read. pressure from these lawsuits forced twi to settle two lawsuits for undisclosed amounts (but damages were in the millions in the filed paperwork).
i'm sorry if the truth of the matter is shocking to you, but that makes it no less the truth.
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chockfull
even more than that, many of us who post here have centered our lives around what VP preached for decades and attempted to live, move, and prosper under his teachings. God has honored our hearts and done things for us in spite of the corruption of the organization. over time we've come face to face with that darkness within the organization, and moved in different directions. in my opinion, those who remain and have been around all have had to "sell out" to rationalize the evil within the org and still support it. i could not justify doing that.
it's not that we don't believe God could pull off phenomena related to the weather. it's that after examining TWI and the fruit of the organization, including the fruit of VP's life in its entirety, it's far more likely something that vp made up in retrospect to try and foster his reputation among the young hippies as "The Teacher" or sole pipeline to the heart of God. it's recorded here on this site vp's organizational freeze out tactics and takeover tactics with the original fellowships in the Groovy Christian eras - both on the West Coast and East Coast with Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner.
in fact, reading that today, to me it seems much more similar to Joseph Smith's elaborate tale talking to the angel Moroni that founded the Mormons than it does a genuine Christian experience.
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OldSkool
How much more of a firsthand account than excathedra or Kristen Skedgell does a person need? Wouldn't a witness to a married, 50 something, "minister" having sex on a motor coach with a young lady in her early twenties be hard to come by anyway? Usually things of this nature happen in private is my point. So throwing out the need for a first hand eye witness is sort of asking the impossible. Not to mention discrediting the victim to excuse Wierwille's indiscretions.
But some people will do whatever they can to postpone their date with reality. I remember being the same way. Take evil actions such as committed by Wierwille, Martindale, and Rosalie (she covered it up) and rationalize them away.
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Steve Lortz
I don't think I'd call 'em "indiscetions"... more like out-and-out predations...
Love,
Steve
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