Dearest Radar - I hope you're feeling better soon. When Paw was here, I was sick, too and still have a touch of it... snifffffffle.
I am not at all cranky, but will get that way if Mike's threads end up on the "About the Way" forum, which states on the title page of the forums that: "This forum is for discussion about the Way International and its leadership"
If your threads are about VP's teachings, please put them in the DOCTRINAL forum as Pawtucket has asked. In my P.I., the "About the Way" forum is that it is a DISCUSSION about TWI to help people see what went on in the past, and what is going on there now. It has helped many people get on with their lives after TWI and helped a few more make the decision to end their association with that organization.
For example, I started a thread asking whether or not TWI interferred with people's college education. That doesn't have any scriptural reference in it, it doesn't require literal translations according to usage and you don't have to listen to VP's last teachings or even be a Christian to answer the poll!
Might I suggest to Paw that he move the link to the Doctrinal forum higher on the forum title page in order for people to see it without having to scroll down. I don't have a problem with it as it is, but it seems that many people don't scroll down past what they see on their computer screens. Maybe that would help Mike and others who want to talk about the bible post there more often. I think a few people with large egos want to post their threads where they think the most people will read them. ;)-->
Oh, and as far as spelling goes... I'm a bit pedantic (Zix, feel free to jump in at any time). Most of the time I can figure out what people are trying to say as long as their sentences are coherent. Sometime those who misspell aren't as clear as others, and it's not because of their errors in spelling, either.
Naw - I'm not cranky - just b!tchy today, I guess.
xoxoxo
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
2 a : one who makes a show of knowledge b : one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge c : a formalist or precisionist in teaching
Both taught and wrote books about the Abundant Life.
Both taught that God was Good.
Both taught that God DOESN't send sickness
Both taught that Believing was action
Both taught that God has dealt to every believer the measure of Faith
Both taught I John 2 God wants us in good health
Both were very interested in seeing Jesus Christ as a man, a human, but came to different conclusions.
Both taught that the individual believer can be healed and heal others
Both ministered healing to people (OR-one million people, docuemented. VP-well, not a million)
Both built a college (one was successful)
Both, at one time, had the largest tent in the world to preach (OR his crusades Vp his ROA)
Both went in different directions, (or a evanglisit and healer, VP, the teaching route)
One was very successful, the other, a spurt of glory.
I have been studying OR's books from 1947 to about 1966, just prior to him getting on the college bandwagon.
IMHO, If we had taken PFAL (foundational only) and then jumped ships to OR's ministry, by now, we all would have been more Christ like and healing God's people would be, to us, as easy as breathing. IMHO, because OR was so miraclously healed when he was on his deathbed, he seemed to understand sickness, disease and the human spirit. He had a inept ability to share his miracle and help people believe and take the action needed to see, and I mean SEE the glory of God.
[This message was edited by Lightside on December 26, 2003 at 17:41.]
I won't post anymore on this but had to respond since you posted after my post.
I have noticed through mike's threads that you did not respond so I take it that you didn't read a lot of his posts.
When people have been nice and asked questions he has put people down and was very rude in his words. If he found out we were olg (I think that means old leader grads?) Then he maybe would give the time a day. If you weren't an olg you weren't even worth talking to. So his messages aren't even to a lot of the gs people anyway. Just a few. I would suggest that you go back and read his posts from the beginning and maybe you can have a better understanding of whats going on here.
Also, what I responded to on this thread was that I took it that mike wanted some feedback. I gave him the feedback that I felt that was true. I don't care about group thinking.
I take it that what you were calling immature was what I had posted. Usually, I find that the people that tend to call people immature are actually the ones that have that problem. Not meaning that you are of course, but I have to say that that has been my experience.
Mike, I think its great what paw suggested. If you can post in the doctrinal area then you can get the people that want to go back and forth with scripture with you.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
Since I began reading the board, I have seen the term 'Mike Thread' mentioned. However, I have not actually read one. This particular thread, being a mere announcement of 'Mike threads' to come, has sparked some energetic responses. Serve it up Mike. :D-->
The "Mike" threads are always long winded. I don't bother reading many of them just because most of the replies end up as attacks on Mike and they don't add anything to the discussion.
I am sure there are ex-TWI people that have thrown out their PFAL/TWI materials out of disgust, frustration or whatever other experience they had with TWI, but I haven't. Mike's stance is since most people don't have the PFAL/TWI materials to refer back to their understanding of what transpired in TWI is erroneous or unreliable at best, and therefore one can't take their testimony with any authority. Now I don't know if you can separate someone from "their TWI experience" from the "TWI textbook" with much success, but Mike is sure hellbent on trying it.
And therein lies the problem, because even though everyone's experience with TWI was different, this does not negate the fact someone does not have the ability to speak authoritatively about what happened to them or what transpired in TWI. One can read the "TWI textbook" a million times over, but just like the bible, you'll come up with a million different translations.
That was TWI's downfall - trying to bring everybody into a perfect understanding of the Bible and then trying to live it perfectly. How can that be done when it's not available - and I am putting that in TWI's lingo. That understanding & life won't be available until the return. It's only at that time when we will be able to put off the corruption of the flesh and all it's weakness. But then again, TWI wanted us to believe they alone replaced the absent Christ.
Now that might not be in the "TWI textbook", but it sure was the "TWI experience" more than just one of us had. The testimony of more than one can be taken with authority, and that is also in the textbook!
Didn't VP travel to Tulsa, Ok and because of a snowstorm, he stayed another day; and heard the young up and rising pentecostal preacher and healer, Oral Roberts teach da word, just prior to VP meeting Stiles and being led into tongues.
Something like that in "The Way living in Love"
In just my opinion, anything OR taught and preached before his duty to build a college was just great stuff and very healing. Once he built his college, money was added as another way to receive your healing.
Or got the revelation to build a college in 1935 at the age of 17; but the believing action didn't start until maybe the mid-sixties or so.
His early years of preaching and healing were a living testament of Oral Roberts believing to know Jesus Christ and the Power of his ressurection. He was a man of miracles.
I hope you are feeling better. I will be praying for your good health. Kind of reminds me of our college days. I used to pray for people's health back then also. Sort of reminds me of one time. I prayed for a few people and got some good results. Our roomates started calling me Marcus Wellby, MD named after the TV show and leading character. However, you were worried that I was not following the correct keys from the Advanced Class. You are a special person, but God was that ever funny. I even laughed about that then. At least silently to myself.
"Galen, . . . I have noticed through mike's threads that you did not respond so I take it that you didn't read a lot of his posts."
Though I am retired, and I post here at various times of the day, I am also busy doing various other things; so occasionally I do go numerous hours without being on-line, sometimes even a whole day at a time.
Mike and I have spoken privately on occasions. I respect him a great deal.
I have read much of what he has written here on Greasespot Cafe, so?
You are right that I have not argued against Mike's writings much. Hmm, does that mean that I have not read them? perhaps there is another explanation?
Mike experienced many of the same things that I did, but from an entirely different angle. He seems to have been much 'closer' to things going on, than I was. Much more of my knowledge of TWI was from running PFAL classes and ministering to believers. I had very few dealings with Corpse and 'leadership'. Others on G.S. were much closer to the 'leadership' and thus saw TWI from a different angle. Mike seems to have distanced himself from the 'leadership' when he saw that LCM had become 'corrupted', Mike focused on the books that VPW had written and what VPW had taught personally. Perhaps Mike has a point.
Let Mike talk.
"When people have been nice and asked questions he has put people down and was very rude in his words. If he found out we were olg (I think that means old leader grads?) Then he maybe would give the time a day. If you weren't an olg you weren't even worth talking to. So his messages aren't even to a lot of the gs people anyway. Just a few. I would suggest that you go back and read his posts from the beginning and maybe you can have a better understanding of whats going on here."
I know how rude of Mike, when 20 people all blast him at the same time, and yet he did not focus on each one's response. Instead he picked and choise which fights he would take.
Personally I would not want to knowingly face off with so many adversarys either. I did once in 1987, I spent a couple weeks being tag-teamed by de-programmers. They met well, in their own minds. But it did wear me down, I eventually I did come to doubt my own salvation. It took me many months afterwards before I was comfortable speaking the Word to anyone again.
"Also, what I responded to on this thread was that I took it that mike wanted some feedback. I gave him the feedback that I felt that was true. I don't care about group thinking."
We have let Mike talk. and talk and talk and talk and talk.
But he never says anything.
He keeps promising to share some deep revelation gleaned from the tapes of vpw (rhymes with pee-eww)
All he gives us is his personal interpretation of what Herr Doktor said. Or what Mike's thinks vic said.
Mike wants to believe vp was God's man for our time fine that's his right. But there's alot of us here who are exercising our right to dissent.
Mike needs to not only talk, but listen, and not to the barbs thrown his way ? which I have slung I will admit. But also to the clear and reasoned arguments opposed to his viewpoints.
I don't always like to hear what those opposed to my pov have to say ? take our banter on sexual purity for example ? but I will listen.
Fine example of you not listening or deliberately twisting words, "You are right that I have not argued against Mike's writings much."
Vickles never said anything about you arguing against Mike's words, but about you not responding. Heck, you even quoted him in your post, "Galen, . . . I have noticed through mike's threads that you did not respond..."
As usual, and like Mike, you disregard what others say.
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Radar OReilly
Cynic!
Wait!
You have actually seen that happen? An 80 year old woman with boobs? I should be that lucky to still have boobs when I get that old.
ROR
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Hope R.
Dearest Radar - I hope you're feeling better soon. When Paw was here, I was sick, too and still have a touch of it... snifffffffle.
I am not at all cranky, but will get that way if Mike's threads end up on the "About the Way" forum, which states on the title page of the forums that: "This forum is for discussion about the Way International and its leadership"
If your threads are about VP's teachings, please put them in the DOCTRINAL forum as Pawtucket has asked. In my P.I., the "About the Way" forum is that it is a DISCUSSION about TWI to help people see what went on in the past, and what is going on there now. It has helped many people get on with their lives after TWI and helped a few more make the decision to end their association with that organization.
For example, I started a thread asking whether or not TWI interferred with people's college education. That doesn't have any scriptural reference in it, it doesn't require literal translations according to usage and you don't have to listen to VP's last teachings or even be a Christian to answer the poll!
Might I suggest to Paw that he move the link to the Doctrinal forum higher on the forum title page in order for people to see it without having to scroll down. I don't have a problem with it as it is, but it seems that many people don't scroll down past what they see on their computer screens. Maybe that would help Mike and others who want to talk about the bible post there more often. I think a few people with large egos want to post their threads where they think the most people will read them.
;)-->
Oh, and as far as spelling goes... I'm a bit pedantic (Zix, feel free to jump in at any time). Most of the time I can figure out what people are trying to say as long as their sentences are coherent. Sometime those who misspell aren't as clear as others, and it's not because of their errors in spelling, either.
Naw - I'm not cranky - just b!tchy today, I guess.
xoxoxo
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Main Entry: ped·ant
Pronunciation: 'pe-d&nt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Italian pedante
Date: 1588
1 : obsolete : a male schoolteacher
2 a : one who makes a show of knowledge b : one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge c : a formalist or precisionist in teaching
Pronunciation Key
© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy
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Hope R.
Song - according to Encarta:
pe·dan·tic [ p? dántik ]
adjective
too concerned with formal rules and details: too concerned with what are thought to be correct rules and details, e.g. in language.
I'll admit to that - too many years in TWI - but unimaginative? Naw...
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
hmmmmm...
Related Terms: academic, accordant, affected, anal, arid, bedizened, bibliophagic, big-sounding, bluestocking, book-fed, bookish, book-learned, book-loving, book-minded, book-read, book-wise, booky, bourgeois, compulsive, concordant, conformist, conventional, conventionalized, convoluted, corresponding, declamatory, devoted to studies, didactic, diligent, doctrinaire, donnish, dry, dryasdust, dull, elegant, elevated, erudite, euphemistic, euphuistic, exact, exquisite, extrinsic, fastidious, finical, finicky, flamboyant, flaming, flashy, flaunting, formal, formalist, formalistic, formulary, fulsome, fussy, garish, gaudy, Gongoresque, goody good-good, goody-goody, grandiloquent, grandiose, grandisonant, hair-splitting, harmonious, highfalutin, high-flowing, high-flown, high-flying, high-sounding, impersonal, in accord, in keeping, in line, in step, inkhorn, Johnsonian, kosher, labyrinthine, learned, legalistic, lexiphanic, literary, lofty, lurid, magniloquent, mandarin, meretricious, meticulous, mincing, namby-pamby, nit-picking, nominal, orotund, orthodox, ostentatious, outward, overdone, overelaborate, overinvolved, overnice, overprecise, overrefined, overscrupulous, overwrought, owlish, pedagogic, pedantical, perfectionist, plastic, pompous, preachy, preceptorial, precieuse, precious, precisian, precisianistic, precisionistic, pretentious, professorial, professorlike, punctilious, puristic, quibbling, rabbinic, rhetorical, scholarly, scholastic, schoolish, schoolmastering, schoolmasterish, schoolmasterlike, schoolmasterly, schoolmistressy, schoolteacherish, schoolteachery, scrupulous, sensational, sensationalistic, sententious, showy, simpering, sonorous, square, stiff, stilted, straight, studious, stuffy, stylized, superficial, surface, tall, teacherish, teacherlike, teachery, teachy, tortuous, traditionalist, tutorial, uptight, vain
....
hahahahahahahahh ... damn where is G Carlin !!!
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Hope R.
You talkin' about me, or Mike???
Hope R. color>size>face>
What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
talkin about love... uh oh
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WhiteDove
Mike posts - I ignore it
Hey we are both happy
Works for me! What the hell
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
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Steve!
Oh, don't worry, "Mike", those that don't know you very well will quickly be brought up to speed by me and others.
All I will have to do is copy and paste old posts of yours and they will see the tupos of buffoonery.
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Lightside
Why?
VP and Oral Roberts were both comtemporaries.
Or started in 1947
VP in 1953
Both taught and wrote books about the Abundant Life.
Both taught that God was Good.
Both taught that God DOESN't send sickness
Both taught that Believing was action
Both taught that God has dealt to every believer the measure of Faith
Both taught I John 2 God wants us in good health
Both were very interested in seeing Jesus Christ as a man, a human, but came to different conclusions.
Both taught that the individual believer can be healed and heal others
Both ministered healing to people (OR-one million people, docuemented. VP-well, not a million)
Both built a college (one was successful)
Both, at one time, had the largest tent in the world to preach (OR his crusades Vp his ROA)
Both went in different directions, (or a evanglisit and healer, VP, the teaching route)
One was very successful, the other, a spurt of glory.
I have been studying OR's books from 1947 to about 1966, just prior to him getting on the college bandwagon.
IMHO, If we had taken PFAL (foundational only) and then jumped ships to OR's ministry, by now, we all would have been more Christ like and healing God's people would be, to us, as easy as breathing. IMHO, because OR was so miraclously healed when he was on his deathbed, he seemed to understand sickness, disease and the human spirit. He had a inept ability to share his miracle and help people believe and take the action needed to see, and I mean SEE the glory of God.
[This message was edited by Lightside on December 26, 2003 at 17:41.]
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Raf
Except VP never accused God of extortion (send me $8 million or God said he's a gonna call me home).
And OR never manufactured snowstorms to add drama to his testimony.
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vickles
Galen,
I won't post anymore on this but had to respond since you posted after my post.
I have noticed through mike's threads that you did not respond so I take it that you didn't read a lot of his posts.
When people have been nice and asked questions he has put people down and was very rude in his words. If he found out we were olg (I think that means old leader grads?) Then he maybe would give the time a day. If you weren't an olg you weren't even worth talking to. So his messages aren't even to a lot of the gs people anyway. Just a few. I would suggest that you go back and read his posts from the beginning and maybe you can have a better understanding of whats going on here.
Also, what I responded to on this thread was that I took it that mike wanted some feedback. I gave him the feedback that I felt that was true. I don't care about group thinking.
I take it that what you were calling immature was what I had posted. Usually, I find that the people that tend to call people immature are actually the ones that have that problem. Not meaning that you are of course, but I have to say that that has been my experience.
Mike, I think its great what paw suggested. If you can post in the doctrinal area then you can get the people that want to go back and forth with scripture with you.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
uhmmm did'nt Oral Roberts claim he had a vision or something like a 900 foot tall JC?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on December 26, 2003 at 18:38.]
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BackForty
Since I began reading the board, I have seen the term 'Mike Thread' mentioned. However, I have not actually read one. This particular thread, being a mere announcement of 'Mike threads' to come, has sparked some energetic responses. Serve it up Mike.
:D-->
____
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
i hope it ain't served gladiator style...
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What The Hay
The "Mike" threads are always long winded. I don't bother reading many of them just because most of the replies end up as attacks on Mike and they don't add anything to the discussion.
I am sure there are ex-TWI people that have thrown out their PFAL/TWI materials out of disgust, frustration or whatever other experience they had with TWI, but I haven't. Mike's stance is since most people don't have the PFAL/TWI materials to refer back to their understanding of what transpired in TWI is erroneous or unreliable at best, and therefore one can't take their testimony with any authority. Now I don't know if you can separate someone from "their TWI experience" from the "TWI textbook" with much success, but Mike is sure hellbent on trying it.
And therein lies the problem, because even though everyone's experience with TWI was different, this does not negate the fact someone does not have the ability to speak authoritatively about what happened to them or what transpired in TWI. One can read the "TWI textbook" a million times over, but just like the bible, you'll come up with a million different translations.
That was TWI's downfall - trying to bring everybody into a perfect understanding of the Bible and then trying to live it perfectly. How can that be done when it's not available - and I am putting that in TWI's lingo. That understanding & life won't be available until the return. It's only at that time when we will be able to put off the corruption of the flesh and all it's weakness. But then again, TWI wanted us to believe they alone replaced the absent Christ.
Now that might not be in the "TWI textbook", but it sure was the "TWI experience" more than just one of us had. The testimony of more than one can be taken with authority, and that is also in the textbook!
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Lightside
Didn't VP travel to Tulsa, Ok and because of a snowstorm, he stayed another day; and heard the young up and rising pentecostal preacher and healer, Oral Roberts teach da word, just prior to VP meeting Stiles and being led into tongues.
Something like that in "The Way living in Love"
In just my opinion, anything OR taught and preached before his duty to build a college was just great stuff and very healing. Once he built his college, money was added as another way to receive your healing.
Or got the revelation to build a college in 1935 at the age of 17; but the believing action didn't start until maybe the mid-sixties or so.
His early years of preaching and healing were a living testament of Oral Roberts believing to know Jesus Christ and the Power of his ressurection. He was a man of miracles.
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Seth
Dude! I just wanted to post to this thread before I forgot.
Hey Dude!
Yo Dude!
Dude!
You are the Dude!
OK later Dude!
Seth
"Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?"
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Mark Sanguinetti
Hi Radar:
I hope you are feeling better. I will be praying for your good health. Kind of reminds me of our college days. I used to pray for people's health back then also. Sort of reminds me of one time. I prayed for a few people and got some good results. Our roomates started calling me Marcus Wellby, MD named after the TV show and leading character. However, you were worried that I was not following the correct keys from the Advanced Class. You are a special person, but God was that ever funny. I even laughed about that then. At least silently to myself.
Get well soon. O.K.
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Galen
vickles-
"Galen, . . . I have noticed through mike's threads that you did not respond so I take it that you didn't read a lot of his posts."
Though I am retired, and I post here at various times of the day, I am also busy doing various other things; so occasionally I do go numerous hours without being on-line, sometimes even a whole day at a time.
Mike and I have spoken privately on occasions. I respect him a great deal.
I have read much of what he has written here on Greasespot Cafe, so?
You are right that I have not argued against Mike's writings much. Hmm, does that mean that I have not read them? perhaps there is another explanation?
Mike experienced many of the same things that I did, but from an entirely different angle. He seems to have been much 'closer' to things going on, than I was. Much more of my knowledge of TWI was from running PFAL classes and ministering to believers. I had very few dealings with Corpse and 'leadership'. Others on G.S. were much closer to the 'leadership' and thus saw TWI from a different angle. Mike seems to have distanced himself from the 'leadership' when he saw that LCM had become 'corrupted', Mike focused on the books that VPW had written and what VPW had taught personally. Perhaps Mike has a point.
Let Mike talk.
"When people have been nice and asked questions he has put people down and was very rude in his words. If he found out we were olg (I think that means old leader grads?) Then he maybe would give the time a day. If you weren't an olg you weren't even worth talking to. So his messages aren't even to a lot of the gs people anyway. Just a few. I would suggest that you go back and read his posts from the beginning and maybe you can have a better understanding of whats going on here."
I know how rude of Mike, when 20 people all blast him at the same time, and yet he did not focus on each one's response. Instead he picked and choise which fights he would take.
Personally I would not want to knowingly face off with so many adversarys either. I did once in 1987, I spent a couple weeks being tag-teamed by de-programmers. They met well, in their own minds. But it did wear me down, I eventually I did come to doubt my own salvation. It took me many months afterwards before I was comfortable speaking the Word to anyone again.
"Also, what I responded to on this thread was that I took it that mike wanted some feedback. I gave him the feedback that I felt that was true. I don't care about group thinking."
Really? I could not tell.
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Radar OReilly
Mark.....
I am dying laughing here! I had entirely forgotten that, gawd.....how did you ever put up with me?
Thanks for the laugh...it helps me feel a bit better!
:)-->
Radar
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def59
Galen
We have let Mike talk. and talk and talk and talk and talk.
But he never says anything.
He keeps promising to share some deep revelation gleaned from the tapes of vpw (rhymes with pee-eww)
All he gives us is his personal interpretation of what Herr Doktor said. Or what Mike's thinks vic said.
Mike wants to believe vp was God's man for our time fine that's his right. But there's alot of us here who are exercising our right to dissent.
Mike needs to not only talk, but listen, and not to the barbs thrown his way ? which I have slung I will admit. But also to the clear and reasoned arguments opposed to his viewpoints.
I don't always like to hear what those opposed to my pov have to say ? take our banter on sexual purity for example ? but I will listen.
r
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Tom
Galen,
Fine example of you not listening or deliberately twisting words, "You are right that I have not argued against Mike's writings much."
Vickles never said anything about you arguing against Mike's words, but about you not responding. Heck, you even quoted him in your post, "Galen, . . . I have noticed through mike's threads that you did not respond..."
As usual, and like Mike, you disregard what others say.
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