Planning New Threads

[WordWolf]

BackForty,

Here's what you've missed.

Please keep in mind that this is coming from one poster, who may or may not be

accurately reflecting things. However, it is my studied opinion, and you are

free to compare it to the archived threads and the new ones that start.

Mike has claimed that he spent many years thinking all kinds of things,

then about 5 years ago, he came to the conclusion that vpw's writings-

pfal and the collaterals and so on-have replaced the Bible and are now

SUPERIOR to it in terms of what we need to read nowadays.

(Actually, it was shown he's held this opinion longer.)

Mike has called the Bible-the King James Version and so on-

"unreliable fragments" and "tattered remnants", and then he called them

"approximations", and things like "close", but not completely up to scratch.

Mike claims that the proof of vpw's work being God-breathed was the snowstorm

that nobody else saw, and the 1952 promise that seriously failed to match

reality. In case you've forgotten them, that's the "snow on the gas pumps"

vpw said he saw in later years (he claimed it in later years).

The promise was that if vpw would teach it to others, God Himself would teach

him His Word like it hadn't been known since the First Century.

"The Word as it was known in the First Century" is a neat concept, but since

the printing press wasn't invented, the Written Word was in short supply.

Further, the practices of vpw-run everything in neatly-packaged classes-

bore no relation to events in the first century church.

Further, the fact that vpw was shown to invent snowstorms on other occasions

to make himself sound more special wouldn't be addressed, either.

Mike claims that vpw's work is God-breathed because vpw SAID it was

God-breathed, which we know because he said it was. When asked for proof to

believe this wild story, Mike has said that the only way to prove it is to

spend hundreds of hours of time digging thru vpw's old teachings, both on

paper and tape, and eventually you'll be convinced of this. (Which is hardly

enough to convince us to spend the hundreds of hours.) Mike's claimed that

there's some special plateau reached when one does this, a level Mike himself

freely admits to not reaching.

Mike claimed that vpw's "last, secret lost teaching" was this teaching where

vpw said, in short "Outside of The Way International, there is no real truth

among Christians. To really serve people, you'll need to master my 3 PFAL

classes-Foundational, Intermediate and Advanced."

Mike has taken this as his battlecry and has claimed that the "good old days"

remembered by some were pretty much the result of vpw being THE man of God,

and Mike has taken various approaches to claims that specific people were

molested/raped/etc by vpw, including that they lied, or that it was for their

own good and we need to lighten up on our definition of "sexual assault."

If vpw did something, it was by definition for someone's own good, because

otherwise the secret doctrine that true spiritual understanding comes from

secrets sprinkled in the twi books would be in jeopardy.

Mike's basic approach has been to promise some incredible secret will be

revealed. So far, he hasn't produced anything that 95% or more of us have

considered even noteworthy, let alone worth the fanfare preceeding it.

Mike considers vpw's works to be devoid of any error, excepting possibly

inkstains on the manuscripts. Entire lists of errors have been posted, which

Mike refuses to acknowledge, saying the actual errors are only in the mind of

the reader. Oh, that's right-

unless you're an old-timer, you are incapable of reading vpw's books and

gaining understanding of them-you're in a lesser classification.

So far, true spiritual understanding, for Mike, has come from things hidden

cabalistically amongst various teachings. Many of us have disagreed, which,

according to Mike, makes us either "crybabies" (vpw raped me) or

"unfit researchers" (pfal has errors on page xx).

Mike's approach is that he's the only one that has the truth, and the rest of

us seem to be retarded children who must be led by the hand and are incapable

of understanding, and that honest dissent is ERROR.

(My apologies to any retarded children reading this post.)

So, Mike often will make a number of claims, and a number of us will dispute

them. Occasionally, tempers flare, and Mike and some of his dissenters will

get unprofessional in their conduct. When a few posters see so many

disagreeing loudly with Mike, they seem to conclude that it is NOT because we

all have legitimate disagreements with him, but that Mike is being singled out

because he has an unpopular point of view. Thus, he's entitled to get

mean-spirited and insult the opposing POV, but his dissenters do not.

In case you're wondering, yes, I'm the same poster that was periodically

doing digests of Mike's sequipedalian threads, so that other posters could

keep up, and know what was going on without having to wade thru them all.

Mike's view of same, of course, being that, as an "unfit researcher", that I'm

unqualified and unable to fairly represent the contents of his threads.

I leave it to the readers as to whether both those threads and this summary

represent accurately what's happened to date.

Personally, I agree with the many posters who've said Mike needs to respect

and actually READ the posts of the people who disagree with him.

(We read HIS posts, but he's reluctant to grant us the same courtesy.)

[WordWolf]

Oh, and Mike,

In case you missed it,

Pawtucket has spoken.

"These are discussion threads, not lecture threads."

And most of your threads, proposing Doctrine as they do,

go in the DOCTRINAL forum.

[Tom]

Dang, Wordwolf, that was good! I'd go to a party with you, all get high, drive to MacDonald's, have everyone in the car scream out their orders in the drive through lane, and then when we get to the window, let you collate the whole order into how many burgers, fries, shakes of what flavors, etc. are included in the order. The only thing I'm afraid of is that I'll be driving and relaying the order as you say it, and then after you finish with the order, you'll say, "And tell her it is 'to go,' and I'll say it before I realize I'm already at the take out window.

That HAVING BEEN SAID, I'd like to say that when this gets to the Doctrinal forum, people realize that things posted in the Doctrinal forum are no more to be lectures than things posted anywhere else in the cafe.

DOCTRINES, posted in the DOCTRINAL forum, as all DOCTRINES are supposed to be, are supposed to be as much ideas posted for DISCUSSION, and not LECTURE, as any other thread posted in the cafe.

PLEASE don't relegate the doctrinal forum to the ranks of the pharisaical. There have been some real discussion oriented threads there of late.

[Oakspear]

Wordwolf:

You are the MAN

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is

Oakspear

[Oakspear]

Mike:

Who really gives a rat's @$$?

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is

Oakspear

[wyteduv58]

I for one have missed Mike, he was alot of fun to tease and be teased by him, so wecome back Mike.

Topic.......the emmaculate conception............

Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey

[shazdancer]

Thanks, WordWolf, well done!

Addenda to Mike's view on VPW's atrocities: they are all excuseable, according to Mike, because God was using Vic for a bigger purpose, the transmission of His new Word of God. That gives him a bye on rape, verbal abuse, drunkenness, and plagiarism. In fact, his very rebellious nature made him more able to stand on God's New Word, according to Mike.

Never mind that the Bible says that God gives his revelation to HOLY men, and Wierwille was not a holy man. He was not holy while he was formulating PFAL, while he was teaching it, nor after. And I'm not talking about the day-to-day mistakes that everyone makes. I'm talking about repeated, systematized rape and cruelty.

I have pointed this out to Mike more than once on his threads, without name-calling or nastiness. He has NEVER responded to my charge that Wierwille was not a holy man. But Mike has accused me of being a Corps Nazi and an "unfit researcher," among other things. Galen, do you now see why peple get on his case, where they might listen more politely to others?

Regards,

Shaz

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

I do appreciate the freedom this board to have the opportunity to thread and reply with my words. And apreciate that my threads are responded to either by reply or views. If I were to have even a 50% disapproval rating, that just shows me I do have a voice that is heard among mutual expeiences of background. Although I may make an a$$ out of myself, present cheap shots, agree, disagree, agree to disagree, disagree to agree, engage in verbal melee, apoligise, forgive, vent, be bitter, discuss, cuss, digress, choo-choo, pray, ROFLMAO, and all other prisms of thought and emotion displayed in our words to speak with each other, WHEW... I enjoy GSC and posters involved.

As far as grammer vs posting style, here is a section of a missive my Ma-Ma wrote in her beautiful long hand to me dated 11 / 03 / 03 : "...We went to eat out at resturant with Larry + Dianne and their friends. We enjoyed and chatted with their friends outside porch to relax and talked each other after eating that we stayed out in the porch that have tables + chairs about 1 hour before we went home Larry + Dianne are funny-very sweet." Now tht's my 70 year young Ma-Ma.

She has been writing that way ever since I could read. Any one care to critique such a rare style of words, be my guest.

Many times I have considered to leave this GSC, but I know I won't at this time, so I just 'ghost' in and out. There are plenty who have left this board for good, some change their sns and return, some etc etc etc ad infinitum reasons the transient flow and steady threads.

So I say my say and rok on.

So I guess I said what I want to say today regarding this thread and look forward the audience this thread responses down the moments ahead.

I am just a simple guy living day to day...

Rok On,

Song

[Grizzy]

hey 2027........

God Bless them or f*** em!!!!!!!!

and I think the hearty support for you Roy is the best thing I have seen in a long time............

post away dude!!!!!!!!! look forward to them even if I don't reply.......

as *Song* says................ ROCK ON DUDE!!!!!

:D-->

God Bless America; SIZE>

Grizz SIZE>

[Hope R.]

Wordwolf - Thank you so much for that Reader's Digest version of the Mike threads. I had been reading your other synopsis of his threads which you wrote a while back, but even they got too long for my short attention span!

---

Song - I didn't mean to imply that the people who misspell are ignorant, wierd, creepy or stupid. I merely said that I personally have had trouble understanding some of the misspellings at times. Moi. Me. It's me oh Lord. Mea Culpa. It's my problem - not theirs.

Do I mispell? Knot if eye kan help it... but sumtimes...

Hope R. color>size>face>

What a long, strange trip it's been!size>face>color>

[Galen]

shazdancer:

" . . . Never mind that the Bible says that God gives his revelation to HOLY men, and Wierwille was not a holy man."

We each have our sins. I have certainly sinned. I will likely sin tomorrow. I think that perhaps so have you, and so will you.

It is only through recognizing the shed blood of Jesus that we can hope to obtain holiness. I have said this recently in another thread, and there upset people as it is considered that holiness comes from their ideals of sexual purity. My understanding of the Bible, would include that our holiness comes from G-d our Heavenly Father.

The holy men of the Old Testament had their own issues and weaknesses, yet G-d calls them holy. I do not mean to turn a blind eye, or in anyway forgive or forget what VPW did wrong. I am not excusing his err. However I know that I err, and it is my understanding that all men have err'ed with the single exclusion of Jesus the Christ (Our Lord).

All of G-d's Word has came to us via sinful men who He calls 'holy'.

"He has NEVER responded to my charge that Wierwille was not a holy man."

I have responded.

I think that Mike would possibly agree with my response.

:=)

"Galen, do you now see why peple get on his case, where they might listen more politely to others?"

I fully 'see', not un-like seeing chickens in a hen-house.

:=)

enjoy your weekend Dancer, dance on. . .

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

Yo Grizzy!!!

AUMMMM and Oceans Edge...

From a former dog warior...

Come on give me a hug :D-->

Rok On

oneyedjackswild1

[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on December 27, 2003 at 18:48.]

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

Originally posted by Hope R.:

Song - I didn't mean to imply that the people who misspell are ignorant, wierd, creepy or stupid. I merely said that _I personally_ have had trouble understanding some of the misspellings at times. Moi. Me. It's me oh Lord. Mea Culpa. It's my problem - not theirs.

Do I mispell? Knot if eye kan help it... but sumtimes...

***

Hope R... I'ma just postn' too

Dig,

Rok On Dudette,

[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on December 27, 2003 at 18:35.]

[Grizzy]

heck I knew dat wuz you!!!!!! (jack-song )

and you claim to have made an a$$ of yourself????? :D--> when?????????? where????

hehe haven't we all at one time or another........

:)-->

God Bless America; SIZE>

Grizz SIZE>

[metastic&ocular]

us older leader grads?

mike when were you EVER a leader?

if memory serves me you have never been so much as twig co-ordinater,not even an assistant.

and you were in twi how long? 30+/- years?

and never went corp?

and by your own admission werent you M & Ad from your splinter?

at what point in your life did you appoint yourself the title of leader?

a thing of beauty

http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/vp_DEATH.htm

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

I guess so much for the wine and canapes and the din of murmur and laughter and whispers in the mezzanine... the banquet is being served...

Welcome to the show that never ends

Come inside

Come inside

[This message was edited by TheSongRemainsTheSame on December 27, 2003 at 21:02.]

[seaspray]

Is this the way it works?

[This message was edited by seaspray on December 27, 2003 at 21:36.]

[seaspray]

It is interesting, I think, that it is Mary Magdaline to whom the Lord first appears in His new body. This is the resurrected body described by Dr. Wierwille as "unlimited in scope and activity". This reference can be found on page 35 of 'Are the Dead Alive Now'.

How interesting that you might find this interesting!

[This message was edited by seaspray on December 27, 2003 at 21:37.]

[seaspray]

WordWolf,

Dadgumit, I know I saw it snow at a rodeo on the 4th of July in Arizona. 'course this was a long time ago in a universe far, far away. But if you're callin' me a liar...

[What The Hay]

quote:

---

...and there upset people as it is considered that holiness comes from their ideals of sexual purity.

---

What was that the Pharisee's said unto Jesus - We be not born of fornication ... (John 8:41)

It's remarkable to realize exactly where the idea of holiness stemming from the ideal of sexual purity had started. It wasn't started by our Lord Jesus Christ, but rather by some legalisitic Pharisees.

Now I would say that is pretty revealing as to having an understanding of exactly where some people are coming from - spiritually speaking.

[seaspray]

Hope R.

Why don't you learn how to knit or something?

[seaspray]

Nifty

[GarthP2000]

Christmas!! I thought Smikeol was done away with when he fell into the lava at the Mountain of Doom where his 'preciousssss' was forged! Now he's b-b-a-a-a-c-c-k-k-k!!

:(-->

My own secret sign-off ====v,

Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations. Prophet Emeritus of THE, and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[socks]

Oh geez. I thought this was the thread about clothes shopping, daddio. --> Never mind.

baby's calling me home,

she keeps on callin' me home....

(boz scaggs)

[LG]

quote:

---

Originally posted by What The Hay:

quote:

---

...and there upset people as it is considered that holiness comes from their ideals of sexual purity.

---

What was that the Pharisee's said unto Jesus - We be not born of fornication ... (John 8:41)

It's remarkable to realize exactly where the idea of holiness stemming from the ideal of sexual purity had started. It wasn't started by our Lord Jesus Christ, but rather by some legalisitic Pharisees.

Now I would say that is pretty revealing as to having an understanding of exactly where some people are coming from - spiritually speaking.

---

Have you ever bothered to read the context of "We be not born of fornication;" say even just the next six words? It has nothing to do with sexual purity. Yep, Wierwille ignored "in the verse" and "in the context," in order to make it seem that the Bible says something it doesn't say. He did that a lot, both in PFAL and elsewhere.

Speaking of ignoring context, both in the paragraph from which a quote came, and the paragraph preceding it, Galen, whom you quoted, did just that when he quoted shazdancer. She specifically said that she wasn?t talking about day-to-day mistakes, and clearly indicated that she wasn?t talking about sexual impurity, such as adultery. She listed repeated rape, cruelty, verbal abuse, drunkenness, and plagiarism. Those, and other things Shaz could have listed, but didn't, are not characteristics of what the Bible would call ?holy men,? but rather, are characteristics of what the Bible would call wicked men, false prophets, serpents, hypocrites, ?like unto whited sepulchres?, etc. If someone wants to believe that Wierwille?s plagiarized works and fraudulent claims are the ?Word of God?, that?s fine with me. But, if the Bible is the standard, then Wierwille was no ?holy man of God.?