"Jesus reveals details of His crucifixion"

[Kit Sober]

I received this from a dear friend. Below is my Acts 17:11 response. Please feel free to add whatever you find. Kit Sober.

Jesus reveals details of His crucifixion

My dearly beloved daughter My time for more suffering will come about as My Passion on the cross will be commemorated.

No man understands the extent of My suffering during My crucifixion or the way in which I was scourged.

My scourging was the worst. I was beaten savagely by ten men and every inch of My body was slashed.

The flesh on My back was torn and My shoulder blades were visible.

I could barely stand and one eye was bruised and crushed.

I could only see through My left eye.

By the time they took Me before Pontius Pilate and placed the crown of thorns on My head I could barely stand up.

They then stripped Me bare before placing a short red garment over My head and then placed a palm branch in my right hand.

Each thorn was like a needle so sharp was it. One of these thorns also pierced My right eye which left Me barely able to see.

I lost so much blood that I vomited and was so dizzy that when I began My ascent to Calvary I could not hold the cross.

I fell so many times that it took hours before I reached the top of the hill.

I was scourged and whipped each step of the way.

My body was bloody all over and covered with a thick sweat produced by a scorching sun.

I fainted a few times.

Much as this was painful and agonising the most frightening of all was the hatred shown to Me, not just by the adults along the way, but by young children who kicked Me because they were following their parents' example.

The screams that poured out from their mouths and the hatred was nothing compared to the fear they had of Me.

Because, behind it all, they were still not sure whether or not I was, in fact, the Messiah they were awaiting for so long.

It was easier, therefore, to hate Me, denounce Me rather than accept Me for that would have meant that they would have had to change their ways.

My most agonising moment was when I lay on the ground on My side, having being kicked in the back again, and saw My beloved Mother looking at Me.

She was heart broken and had to be held up by two of My disciples.

I could only see her through the one remaining eye and I could not bear to watch her torment.

The jeers, screams and roars from the crowds of hundreds could be felt from the ground I lay on and it took six hundred soldiers to organise and supervise the crucifixion of Myself and six others.

I was the main focus of their attention and the others did not suffer like I did.

When My wrists, at the base of My thumbs, were nailed to the cross I could no longer feel.

My body was so battered and bruised that I had gone into shock.

My shoulders were dislocated and My arms were torn out of their sockets.

The worst physical damage was inflicted on My body before I was nailed to the cross.

I let out no scream.

No protest.

Only a whisper.

This infuriated My executioners who wanted a reaction to satisfy their lusts.

I never engaged with them for to do so would have meant that I would have had to engage with Satan and his demons who infested their souls.

This is why their viciousness towards Me was so intense.

I was hanging on the cross for five hours.

The sun was scorching and without clouds to help reduce the burning of My skin

As soon as I took My last breath My Father sent forth black clouds as well as thunder and lightning.

The storm that took place was of such a frightening magnitude and so sudden that My spectators were left in no doubt at that stage that I was, indeed, the Saviour that had been sent by God the Father.

I reveal this to you My daughter as a gift to you in return for the huge act of suffering you have offered Me.

Tell My children that I do not regret My Passion on the Cross.

What I do regret is that My sacrifice has been forgotten and that so many deny that My crucifixion took place.

Many have no idea as to what I had to suffer as many of My apostles did not witness My climb to Calvary.

What hurts Me today is that so many deny Me still.

My appeal to you, My followers, is do not allow My Crucifixion to go to waste.

I died for ALL sins including those committed today.

I want and I need to save even those who deny Me even today.

Your Beloved Saviour

Jesus Christ

Six crucified with Jesus? Hmmmmmm

The cult many of us came from arrogantly and adamantly held certain doctrines (Biblical opinions one feels are inerrant interpretations of the Bible). Many such doctrines were at odds with mainstream Christianity, which is what a cult requires to build and support the isolation it needs to insulate itself against outside influence.

Doctrines such as Jesus was born September 11, died on Wednesday after 3:00 pm, but before sunset (the end of the day in eastern culture) and was raised exactly 72 hours later Saturday evening, before sunset, before the Passover (three days and three nights), and there were four crucified with Him were droned into us.

Such doctrines (and many others), which may or may not be the "final" word on the subject, had the primary effect of enhancing and ensuring an arrogance and adamancy that prevented the most precious (in God's eye) intimate relationship affection with other Christians (the blood flow of the Body of Christ) so that truth, if any, in the Biblical research performed by said cult could be worked through by other Christians with differing opinions and strengthen the whole Body.

The isolated cult mind-set also took all the fun out of finding stuff in the Bible, which was a most happy playground at one time for many of us. (I even got reamed for laughing while praying with my children).

There are many scriptures that support the multiple crucifixions, in addition to the spectacle of death culture of the Romans in charge of the day which also supports a mass execution scenario.

Let's see if I can remember some of this stuff. (I threw out all those books because of the dirt mixed in with truth and that the guy who claimed authorship actually stole the research of others. I know it was the baby-with-the-bathwater stuff, and I am sorry now.)

Regarding the guys crucified with Jesus, the following is what I find:

-- duo kagourgai

, wicked evil doers, "malefactors." Two malefactors led with him to be put to death (Luke 23:32, 33) One of the malefactors said "...Lord, remember me...."

-- duo

lestai

λῃστης

--

two thieves. These noted two thieves were crucified "then" (Matthew 27:38) after all the events preceding. The noteworthy first usage of thieves is this is what Jesus called the guys who made the temple "a den of thieves" (Matthew 21:13, Luke 19:46). Also the man rescued by the "good samaritan" had been attacked by

lestai (

Luke 10:30 and 36), Both

lestai,

thieves, "cast the same in his teeth" at the crucifixion. (Matthew 28:38 and 44, Mark 15:27) I don't know what that figure of speech is, but it sounds terrible, and God uses figures of speech for emphasis. Also, Barabbas, who the crowd traded out for Jesus, was a

lestai (John 18:40).

From looking at this word

lestai

, it appears to me that those who rob God of His people do the same thing spiritually as these physical robbers do to their victims, and Jesus used

lestai

in his parable of the good samaritan and it was

lestai

robbers who made the temple (today it's His church, the Body of Christ) a den of thieves.

Robbing God of His people is a most heinous crime. "People overcomers" is what I believe are the "Nicolaitanes" of Revelations 2:6, and 15, not people from a city so called, but a description of type of person that God hates. "God hates" sends chills down my spine to think of. "Nicolaitanes" is a combination of

niko

(overcomer,like Nike tennis shoes) and

laos

people. I didn't figure this out but read it from a guy, Dale Sides, who is still in ministry who left the same cult and his interpretation fits with the rest of the Word I know and have searched it out a little. These nicolaitanes strip people of their goods (their love of God and love of God's people) and leave them for dead. That's certainly what they did to my son Kevin and other precious people I have known from that cult. The only usage of

lestai

outside of the gospels is II Corinthians 11:26 where Precious Paul speaks of his perils, which include "in perils of robbers" which I now believe references that Paul contended with the "nicolaitanes" as well.

In summary of the number of men crucified with Jesus: The cult I was in documented four, but there could be more. There needed to be more than two for a number of reasons:

-- both robbers cast the same into Jesus' teeth, one malefactor said, "...Lord, remember me...."

-- when the guys were doing their breaking of legs, they broke the legs of at least two of the convicts: They broke the legs of the "first" then the other crucified with Jesus (one of the malefactors), and then they came to Jesus and pierced His side (John 19:31-28) whcih doesn't make sense if there was only two.

-- If there were only two crucified, Jesus would be "between" and not "in the midst" (John 19:18).

Further research of "midst" reveals that it references the presence in a large bunch of stuff. John 19:18 could be a verse that shows that there were some (two?) crucified already before Jesus got there. The first (and Most Noteworthy) usage of "midst" in KJV is Genesis 1:6, where God said, "let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters." "Midst" always is within a bunch of stuff, which further supports that there could be more than just the four others crucified with Jesus. The last usage of "midst" is Revelation 22:2, which is pretty close to the end of the Book and shows some great stuff to look forward to.

A most stunning statement that Mel Gibson made when he was questioned about "The Passion" was when he was asked something like, "Why did you show the torture of Jesus in all its bloody gore?" and Mel said, "I didn't."

One of the most precious affirmations for me in this thingm "Jesus reveals details of His crucifixion," was of Jesus' mother, Mary,which the cult I was in degraded and they ridiculed Catholics for their love of her.

Jesus said "by your love they will know you are My disciples" and so anything that builds love and affection is from the Lord and anything that does not is not, as far as I see it now.

This was really nice to review because the bloody trail of the Lord is our life line.

I also really like "satan and his demons who had infested their souls." That is such a great picture of how they work. Like termites eating out a house. I saw some huge cockroaches eating out palm trees in Florida. Ugh!!!!!! And there is nothing left when they are through. That's how those filthy things get people to turn away from the Lord!!!!!!

[Rejoice]

looking at any picture of that fraud makes me nauseous, let alone hearing his voice after all these years.

[Twinky]

Sorry, Naten, even just his pic is more than enough!

We could all have learned far more by watching The Passion, than sitting any number of times through PFAL ... not that the film had been made then.

And most churches sweep it ... behind the stone, as it were ... telling the fact of the crucifixion in some sanitized form without thinking about what was actually entailed. It would be very difficult for most people in Western society today to form a full understanding of everything that had been involved. Perhaps that's why many don't value the sacrifice at all.

[cman]

Perhaps that's why many don't value the sacrifice at all.

Or of anyone for that matter, Jesus drew attention to a transformation,

the first of it's kind.

[Mark Sanguinetti]

Jesus was crucified on a tree according to biblical records. Crucifiction on an existing tree is a quick way to set up a crucifiction because a large tree already has roots for stability. Otherwise to set up a crucifiction you have to wait at least a day for the base of the crucifiction to harden. Sort of like concrete hardening today at a construction site. When you walk around a tree you could be walking in a circle. You could examine one person for death and then have the option of examining the person to the right or to the left next. Jesus could still be in the midst in this scanario regardless of whether he was examined second or third. Therefore 2 others likely died with Jesus. The good thing is God raised Jesus from the dead to sit at God's right hand and bring us closer to God, the Father.

[Mark Sanguinetti]

My above shortened post is based on an article I read by a knowledgeable full time bible teacher. Points to consider on whether Jesus was crucified on a literal tree or on wood that was cemented into the ground? Did they have time to do the work of cementation from Jesus' trial to his execution? If they did not there would have to have been something prebuilt for Jesus to be crucified on. If there wasn't they would need the time to build and let the ground foundation set upon which Jesus and the others were crucified on. I read that for fast crucifixtions they used a literal large tree to nail wood on and on this wood they would nail the person they wanted to crucify. Then they could do their dirty deed real fast. And a large tree could hold a few people. So the next question is was it a literal tree that Jesus was crucified on? Three bible verses in Acts say that Jesus was crucified on a tree. Or instead of a literal tree was it pieces of wood? But again the wood would have to be attached to a foundation of some kind.

[Twinky]

Mark, Not too difficult to imagine that there were a number of crosses (of standard design) or stakes (no cross-bar) for the punishment of offenders, and a specific place where the offenders were punished with pre-built holes in the ground that could be chocked to keep the crosses/stakes themselves more or less upright.

Kinda like, gas chambers, a trapdoor in the floor where hanging was carried out, a special gurney where lethal injection is carried out. The necessary "tools" are to hand, not fresh made.

[Mark Sanguinetti]

That is possible Twinky. Maybe that is true. But then maybe they did need to use an actual tree as a foundation. We would need to check actual history records to see if they had a place as you have described. That might mean a lot of killing to designate a place solely for that purpose. Or perhaps they just built some cross structures and then tore them down when they were done.

[Mark Sanguinetti]

The information that I posted here I got from reading a chapter or two out of Ernest L. Martin's book Secrets of Golgotha. Ernest L. Martin was an author, historian and biblical theologist. Like E.W. Bullinger and another person that I don't remember the name of that Victor Wierwille learned about the holy spirit from. Ernest Martin, was one of the people I think that Wierwilled got his good biblical information from. Of course, he would always hint that he came up with the biblical information himself. I think the good biblical information that he had he got from other sources, one of those being Ernest L. Martin. The wrong teachings he may have thought up himself.

Just information to consider. It is good to know the original source of biblical information that we have been taught so that we can evaluate it from the source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_L._Martin

Edited April 13, 2012 by Mark Sanguinetti

[cman]

Maybe where and why the place and the type of execution would be significant to some.

But it's a distraction from what happens, and this thread, imo.

Or not, since Kit is pointing out the silliness of all these doctrines.

If we are to look at the things we can't see.

We must be able too.

Anyway these sources are just background info to me.

Edited April 13, 2012 by cman

[Mark Sanguinetti]

The only thing insignificant and a distraction was your last post Cman.

The good thing about my posts here is that they are short, to the point and don't take long to read and understand. People who don't appreciate that must have a lot of free time. Which is the opposite of my busy schedule. People should be appreciative of others contributions here regardless of whether they agree or disagree. Otherwise you are simply going to have less people posting here.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Mark Sanguinetti

[cman]

Ok, I'll float a question then.

Why does it say-Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree-from-

Galatians 3:13

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

[cman]

If you agree or disagree with the way I communicate, isn't this at least part of the real question of the tree?

And if one is made in the image of God, is cursed by the law, that God came up with, isn't God cursed as well?

Pardon me, just thinking about the logic of oneness with God.

And that comes with disagreements as well.

Edited April 15, 2012 by cman

[Kit Sober]

...Kit is pointing out the silliness of all these doctrines.

Thanks cman. That's really close to what I was aiming for => Our Lord gave His life and bore the sins of the whole world, including mine.

What is so precious to me of biblical research is that it brings me into the deepness of the scriptures where I can see more of the face of the Lord and feel His breath, that pneuma, that ruach of the cool of the day where God meets us and shows us He loves us beyond what we could know without His help.

We require the Holy Spirit to understand what the Bible is saying, and biblical research should bring us into greater life with Him.

All the details of the crucifixion (or any other subject matter of the Bible) should all fit together. Because each of us knows in part our works should help each other understand more and more of the Lord's presence in our lives. That's the goal, in my opinion.

[Ham]

Only a whisper.

This infuriated My executioners who wanted a reaction to satisfy their lusts.

I never engaged with them for to do so would have meant that I would have had to engage with Satan and his demons who infested their souls.

sometimes..

the best one can do is to deflect this kind of nonsense.

Yes, one has the ability to absorb this kind of energy,..

but one does not have to..

it's not for my benefit, if I do, or not..

[cman]

not so sure about deflecting such attacks

if i hear things directed at me or even in general,

that is meant to to get a reaction from me

somehow i still have to process it and file it

usually in the burn barrel,

or you might even say the lake of fire in my head

and possibly engage the matter at another time,

if warranted...i can wait to respond when ready