I think when we understand the why we become not so one sided..
Everything in TWI is spiritualized (is that even a real word?). Just about everything has some secret meaning ....right down to how you keep your house and the dust under your bed. I think being abusive took on a spiritual meaning, just not the one you would think. Remember, with the TWI mindset you have to play opposite Wednesday.
I don't think it was considered abusive.....but admirable.
when someone (leader reverend) would go off screaming like a maniac, we were told it was spiritual anger
when someone (leader reverend) would molest you, you were told you had a gift from god to minister to him
i will think of many more examples, but i hope this helps along with what geisha and ww and sky tell you
i'm just trying to calm down and tell you that i see this in many other places besides the way, but i know we are on this forum to talk about the way
it deeply hurts me that people were condemned, exposed, trashed, etc., when they were just human and innocent and had done nothing compared the the bastuds running the joint
why didn't they require the youngsters to pack something like a 9 mm handgun? I mean.. heck. It's a great equalizer, that is, to balance out the effect of out of control adults..
My dad was cool.. he actually taught his two less than teenage sons how to handle a rifle. When walking, you are supposed to hold it down in a position that it is NEVER pointed in the direction of another human being..
I think he had to hold a firearm, or worse in the direction of others in one of the "great" wars..
so interesting.. he never told us anything about that..
And whose brillant idea was it for all adults to carry wooden spoons(or ping pong paddles) to spank any misbehaving child? Bet if Wierille, Geer, Martindale, Rivenbark, or Linder were whacked, they would have pressed charges of assault and battery after calling the sheriff to arrest them, but if any other adult did that for rape or physical abuse done by the leaders, the above proably would physical beat to a pulp if not outright murder. Yep, just 1 straw short of Jim Jones and David Koresh.
And whose brillant idea was it for all adults to carry wooden spoons(or ping pong paddles) to spank any misbehaving child? Bet if Wierille, Geer, Martindale, Rivenbark, or Linder were whacked, they would have pressed charges of assault and battery after calling the sheriff to arrest them, but if any other adult did that for rape or physical abuse done by the leaders, the above proably would physical beat to a pulp if not outright murder. Yep, just 1 straw short of Jim Jones and David Koresh.
I don't know whose idea it was, but it was standard operating procedure at the Family Corps location.
For the most part I do have a one sided view about TWI.....the only redeeming thing I can take from my time is the people. I don't regret the people, well, most of the people.
There are a few I would like to get into a closed room and have a word with but mostly...I remember the people fondly. And I believe that ex-way people are extraordinary. Especially those, who after all that propaganda about adversity.....deal so graciously when life comes at them. If you think about it ...it is pretty amazing.
779, great post!! Your post is so good, I can't add anything to it!
On 3/30/2012 at 2:26 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:
And whose brillant idea was it for all adults to carry wooden spoons(or ping pong paddles) to spank any misbehaving child? Bet if Wierille, Geer, Martindale, Rivenbark, or Linder were whacked, they would have pressed charges of assault and battery after calling the sheriff to arrest them, but if any other adult did that for rape or physical abuse done by the leaders, the above proably would physical beat to a pulp if not outright murder. Yep, just 1 straw short of Jim Jones and David Koresh.
there are one-sided views here -- i don't want to name names -- but i will if you are going to torture me
life and people's minds and hearts are so intricate
i just don't know how to explain it
i cannot see using all my post time (it's been so little) just crucifying everyone or every idea, thought, verse, etc., with regard to the way
i will elaborate later, but now i have to go
think about it
there are so many horrible things in life. i can't stand the way, but do i have to dig and find things -- not at all. they are very uppermost in my mind
but i have many good things, people, even experiences
so have at it
thanks
love,
e
a sexually assaulted wayfer
mwah
*** please note in the quote below WordWolf is replying to another post - I just wanted to point that out - so in other words, he is not objecting to any ideas in Excathedra's post that I included above...I quoted both these posts because I felt they emphasized acknowledging the duality of life.
On 3/28/2012 at 2:46 PM, WordWolf said:
I have to object this this idea that all opinions must be embraced and are equally valid.
Yes, you have a right to your opinion. I also have a right to mine, and that includes the right
to think your opinion is foolish, and that you're conducting yourself poorly. We can agree, at least,
on CIVILITY at the very least, but that doesn't mean I have to AGREE with anyone else.
Oakspear and I approach things from a vast doctrinal divide and neither of us have any plans
to cross it. Has anyone here seen us act uncivilly toward each other? Highly doubtful.
Look- all positions are NOT equally valid, and agreeing with someone is not wrong, and disagreeing
with someone is not wrong, and almost everyone holding an opinion is not discriminatory to the
minority. Most of us here agree that having oxygen in the air and clean drinking water, in and of
themselves, are good things. If someone disagrees, I'm going to point out why I think they are
wrong. If someone gets nasty and defensive about being in the minority here, I'll call them on
THAT, too. We had people posting here on HOLOCAUST DENIAL. They insisted the death tolls were
highly exagerrated and so on. They were allowed to continue posting, and other posters refuted
them. And they acted like they were being persecuted because everyone else was "one-sided."
No, everyone else happened to agree on something and they didn't, and being called out on error
was making them feel bad. If they didn't want others to call them on either poor doctrine or
poor behavior, they shouldn't do either where others can see it and respond. Heck, I've been
called on poor behavior online (not here) and actually thought about it and made improvements.
Not everyone is willing to consider they might currently be wrong. They might say they had
been wrong in the past, but have now "arrived" and that's no longer the case.
Do we all agree Charles Manson's a bad guy? Do we all agree that John Wayne Gacy was a bad guy?
That's not a bad thing-but some would call that "one-sided views."
An attempt at "balanced views" might sound like this, depending on who is saying it:
You all claim Al Capone was a terrible person, with claims he allegedly broke the law, his
supposed racketeering, his (claimed) bootlegging, and the unconfirmed claims he bashed in
someone's skull with a baseball bat. However, I ate at his soup kitchen during the hard
Depression days, and I am offended whenever someone claims he wasn't a nice guy. Why, he
never said a cross word to me, and he was quite polite."
A reply to that might be that the person isn't looking at the whole picture, and that
the benefits a few received were the results of the losses of many.
The first person's reply might sound like this:
You all are just bitter and would rather stew in negative emotions rather than just get
over it and stop claiming he was a bad guy. After all, Capone is dead.
I'm under no constraints to pander to anyone's opinions, positions, or delusions.
I can, however, at least be CIVIL towards them and I'd appreciate the same- which, around
here, isn't the case. I've been called 'the devil' before for disagreeing with someone.
I didn't return the favor.
Personally, I think we do NOT have "one-sided views." We acknowledge we had some good
times in twi, as did some others, and later learned those good times were at someone else's
expense, and good people were in twi as well as bad. Non-GSC posters would say that is NOT
"one-sided", that's "fair."
Great posts !!!!
Not sure if this is off topic but - I think Skyrider started a thread on the duality of life...that’s looking at BOTH sides - a dual sided view.....I believe it’s a mentally healthy way to deal with the good and bad things that happen in life... and as far as dealing with the past - it’s not that certain good memories will cover up or make you forget the bad memories....but maybe the good memories will act as a buffer to some of the pain of the bad ones ....overshadow them ? I dunno...
When I was a kid my mom’s prescription for a toothache was to put aspirin on my aching tooth and then let me type on my big sister’s typewriter....maybe the aspirin did something I don’t know...but getting to use my sister’s manual typewriter- wow wee !! I think that more than anything took my mind off the toothache....not sure if that’s how good memories work to give us some relief in times of stress, pain or heartache...
Ok....maybe I just wanted to say it’s time we bring back those manual typewriters!!!! ....if anyone else agrees please feel free to call me - just pick up the other end of my tin can and string and tell me how you feel - call now one lonely operator standing by
*** please note in the quote below WordWolf is replying to another post - I just wanted to point that out - so in other words, he is not objecting to any ideas in Excathedra's post that I included above...I quoted both these posts because I felt they emphasized acknowledging the duality of life.
Great posts !!!!
Not sure if this is off topic but - I think Skyrider started a thread on the duality of life...that’s looking at BOTH sides - a dual sided view.....I believe it’s a mentally healthy way to deal with the good and bad things that happen in life... and as far as dealing with the past - it’s not that certain good memories will cover up or make you forget the bad memories....but maybe the good memories will act as a buffer to some of the pain of the bad ones ....overshadow them ? I dunno...
When I was a kid my mom’s prescription for a toothache was to put aspirin on my aching tooth and then let me type on my big sister’s typewriter....maybe the aspirin did something I don’t know...but getting to use my sister’s manual typewriter- wow wee !! I think that more than anything took my mind off the toothache....not sure if that’s how good memories work to give us some relief in times of stress, pain or heartache...
Ok....maybe I just wanted to say it’s time we bring back those manual typewriters!!!! ....if anyone else agrees please feel free to call me - just pick up the other end of my tin can and string and tell me how you feel - call now one lonely operator standing by
when someone (leader reverend) would go off screaming like a maniac, we were told it was spiritual anger
when someone (leader reverend) would molest you, you were told you had a gift from god to minister to him
i will think of many more examples, but i hope this helps along with what geisha and ww and sky tell you
i'm just trying to calm down and tell you that i see this in many other places besides the way, but i know we are on this forum to talk about the way
it deeply hurts me that people were condemned, exposed, trashed, etc., when they were just human and innocent and had done nothing compared the the bastuds running the joint
Exci, it hurts me deeply also, that so many people were exploited by TWI. I can't remember if it was you, or another woman who described in detail, how she was raped by one of the leaders of TWI; it made me cry! But after I stopped crying, I started to really understand how sick, and perverted some of the top leaders in TWI were; like VPW. I had no idea of how many women in TWI had been sexually assaulted; at the time many of these women were afraid to press charges. Many of these women were left to deal with their anger, pain, and hurt, on their own. I pray that all of these women find professional help, and somehow move forward with their lives.
The "how" is an easy answer. Nobody actually sets up a whiteboard and announces
"today we are going to learn proper shouting techniques."
(Unless you're a character in Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker" series- the Vogons had
officer ranks like "Senior Shouting Officer.")
They taught BY EXAMPLE. If you're someplace where you are told EVERYTHING is PLANNED
to the nth degree and it's ALL spiritual, then there's significance to how the carpets
are vacuumed, the lightbulbs are changed, etc. (Yes, they taught how to vacuum the carpets.
Really.)
So, when leadership spends lots of time SHOUTING about things, then you get the lesson that
SHOUTING is part of being a leader.
You have a good question as to "why". I think it was laziness.
By that I mean, vpw and lcm had poor self-control and shouted all the time.
So others absorbed that, and thought it was INTENTIONAL when it was just that leaders
were too LAZY to police their own behavior. It's the same with all the CURSING.
vpw and lcm cursed a lot in private- lcm did it in LESS private venues.
So, people learned to curse. At least one parent said their child LEARNED TO CURSE
through sitting through lcm's (MANDATORY) lunchtime tirades.
Imagine-
there you are with your child, eating lunch.
Then some maniac tromps up to a microphone, and spends 20 minutes yelling and cursing
on a subject.
Then he pauses and changes subjects, yelling and cursing for ANOTHER 20 minutes.
How can you tell your child to control himself when the supposed leader of the group
is more impulsive than your child? The most hypocritical part?
Children on-grounds in twi are frequently BEATEN if they're not behaving PERFECTLY.
Adults were REQUIRED to all carry a wooden spoon with them at the family corps so they
were prepared to beat ANYONE'S child at any time. Yet the leaders were the ones allowed
to be brats and terrors.
(Oh, if your parents were big muck-a-mucks, there was always an excuse and you could
manage to escape punishment for committing CRIMES and trashing things. Otherwise,
children were in terror of adults and sometimes other kids there.)
WW, good post!! I just want to add my opinion; I hate shouting. My mother used to scream, and yell a lot when I was growing up; I believe she had mental problems. I think VPW, and LCM also had mental problems; I think they felt a sense of justification with their screaming, and yelling. Nothing turns me away more than being screamed at; if you want my attention, speak to me in a normal tone of voice. Otherwise, please don't speak to me at all.
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Naten00
I am curious how are they taught to be like that?
I think when we understand the why we become not so one sided..
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WordWolf
The "how" is an easy answer. Nobody actually sets up a whiteboard and announces
"today we are going to learn proper shouting techniques."
(Unless you're a character in Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker" series- the Vogons had
officer ranks like "Senior Shouting Officer.")
They taught BY EXAMPLE. If you're someplace where you are told EVERYTHING is PLANNED
to the nth degree and it's ALL spiritual, then there's significance to how the carpets
are vacuumed, the lightbulbs are changed, etc. (Yes, they taught how to vacuum the carpets.
Really.)
So, when leadership spends lots of time SHOUTING about things, then you get the lesson that
SHOUTING is part of being a leader.
You have a good question as to "why". I think it was laziness.
By that I mean, vpw and lcm had poor self-control and shouted all the time.
So others absorbed that, and thought it was INTENTIONAL when it was just that leaders
were too LAZY to police their own behavior. It's the same with all the CURSING.
vpw and lcm cursed a lot in private- lcm did it in LESS private venues.
So, people learned to curse. At least one parent said their child LEARNED TO CURSE
through sitting through lcm's (MANDATORY) lunchtime tirades.
Imagine-
there you are with your child, eating lunch.
Then some maniac tromps up to a microphone, and spends 20 minutes yelling and cursing
on a subject.
Then he pauses and changes subjects, yelling and cursing for ANOTHER 20 minutes.
How can you tell your child to control himself when the supposed leader of the group
is more impulsive than your child? The most hypocritical part?
Children on-grounds in twi are frequently BEATEN if they're not behaving PERFECTLY.
Adults were REQUIRED to all carry a wooden spoon with them at the family corps so they
were prepared to beat ANYONE'S child at any time. Yet the leaders were the ones allowed
to be brats and terrors.
(Oh, if your parents were big muck-a-mucks, there was always an excuse and you could
manage to escape punishment for committing CRIMES and trashing things. Otherwise,
children were in terror of adults and sometimes other kids there.)
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excathedra
thank you all for going easy on me
i appreciate it so much
some days i zero in on some things and other days, other things
i was a having john prine moment, but i do see things from all your points of view, believe it or not :) i know you believe me
ps. i find it really annoying when people respond with a youtube song (except for me)
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geisha779
Everything in TWI is spiritualized (is that even a real word?). Just about everything has some secret meaning ....right down to how you keep your house and the dust under your bed. I think being abusive took on a spiritual meaning, just not the one you would think. Remember, with the TWI mindset you have to play opposite Wednesday.
I don't think it was considered abusive.....but admirable.
How do you ever understand that?
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excathedra
'tis true
when someone (leader reverend) would go off screaming like a maniac, we were told it was spiritual anger
when someone (leader reverend) would molest you, you were told you had a gift from god to minister to him
i will think of many more examples, but i hope this helps along with what geisha and ww and sky tell you
i'm just trying to calm down and tell you that i see this in many other places besides the way, but i know we are on this forum to talk about the way
it deeply hurts me that people were condemned, exposed, trashed, etc., when they were just human and innocent and had done nothing compared the the bastuds running the joint
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OperaBuff
Git on outta here!
Really? Seriously??
Git on outta here!!
Just when I think I've heard it all, along comes some new idiotic thing like that.
Is it really true?
Git on outta here!!!
Were the kids required to carry anything?
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Ham
here comes my obtuse self.
sowy.
why didn't they require the youngsters to pack something like a 9 mm handgun? I mean.. heck. It's a great equalizer, that is, to balance out the effect of out of control adults..
I mean, they HAD firearm training and all..
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Ham
My dad was cool.. he actually taught his two less than teenage sons how to handle a rifle. When walking, you are supposed to hold it down in a position that it is NEVER pointed in the direction of another human being..
I think he had to hold a firearm, or worse in the direction of others in one of the "great" wars..
so interesting.. he never told us anything about that..
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Ham
One-sided views hold their firearms, well below the site of others.. or they are supposed to..
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Ham
Nobody here.. well, lets see what Friday brings.
:)
If it makes any difference here.. I do not own a firearm.
In any form..
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Ham
Friday is my Tuesday afternoon..
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
And whose brillant idea was it for all adults to carry wooden spoons(or ping pong paddles) to spank any misbehaving child? Bet if Wierille, Geer, Martindale, Rivenbark, or Linder were whacked, they would have pressed charges of assault and battery after calling the sheriff to arrest them, but if any other adult did that for rape or physical abuse done by the leaders, the above proably would physical beat to a pulp if not outright murder. Yep, just 1 straw short of Jim Jones and David Koresh.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Not a problem. Some people's computer settings are such that they don't even see embedded videos.
George
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krys
I don't know whose idea it was, but it was standard operating procedure at the Family Corps location.
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excathedra
you so funny george s george
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Grace Valerie Claire
779, great post!! Your post is so good, I can't add anything to it!
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Or Ron L. Hubbard and David Mischavege
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T-Bone
*** please note in the quote below WordWolf is replying to another post - I just wanted to point that out - so in other words, he is not objecting to any ideas in Excathedra's post that I included above...I quoted both these posts because I felt they emphasized acknowledging the duality of life.
Great posts !!!!
Not sure if this is off topic but - I think Skyrider started a thread on the duality of life...that’s looking at BOTH sides - a dual sided view.....I believe it’s a mentally healthy way to deal with the good and bad things that happen in life... and as far as dealing with the past - it’s not that certain good memories will cover up or make you forget the bad memories....but maybe the good memories will act as a buffer to some of the pain of the bad ones ....overshadow them ? I dunno...
When I was a kid my mom’s prescription for a toothache was to put aspirin on my aching tooth and then let me type on my big sister’s typewriter....maybe the aspirin did something I don’t know...but getting to use my sister’s manual typewriter- wow wee !! I think that more than anything took my mind off the toothache....not sure if that’s how good memories work to give us some relief in times of stress, pain or heartache...
Ok....maybe I just wanted to say it’s time we bring back those manual typewriters!!!! ....if anyone else agrees please feel free to call me - just pick up the other end of my tin can and string and tell me how you feel - call now one lonely operator standing by
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Grace Valerie Claire
T-Bone, you are so cute!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Exci, it hurts me deeply also, that so many people were exploited by TWI. I can't remember if it was you, or another woman who described in detail, how she was raped by one of the leaders of TWI; it made me cry! But after I stopped crying, I started to really understand how sick, and perverted some of the top leaders in TWI were; like VPW. I had no idea of how many women in TWI had been sexually assaulted; at the time many of these women were afraid to press charges. Many of these women were left to deal with their anger, pain, and hurt, on their own. I pray that all of these women find professional help, and somehow move forward with their lives.
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, good post!! I just want to add my opinion; I hate shouting. My mother used to scream, and yell a lot when I was growing up; I believe she had mental problems. I think VPW, and LCM also had mental problems; I think they felt a sense of justification with their screaming, and yelling. Nothing turns me away more than being screamed at; if you want my attention, speak to me in a normal tone of voice. Otherwise, please don't speak to me at all.
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