For the most part I do have a one sided view about TWI.....the only redeeming thing I can take from my time is the people. I don't regret the people, well, most of the people.
There are a few I would like to get into a closed room and have a word with but mostly...I remember the people fondly. And I believe that ex-way people are extraordinary. Especially those, who after all that propaganda about adversity.....deal so graciously when life comes at them. If you think about it ...it is pretty amazing.
For the most part I do have a one sided view about TWI.....the only redeeming thing I can take from my time is the people. I don't regret the people, well, most of the people.
Yeah......I agree with that.
When one RECOGNIZES the wolf-in-sheeps'-clothing twi hierarchy........am I supposed to be open-minded about it? Nope, not one bit. Nearly all of my posting deals with wierwille, trustees, indoctrination, manipulation, deception, exploitation, hypocrisy, adultery, bait-and-switch tactics, corps cloning, white-washing sins, scrubbing twi-history, bewitching others, etc.
Having experienced a 24-year tenure in twi.....I think I know whereof I speak, ya know?
With each passing year, twi became a spiritual cesspool. As more money funneled into hq, it empowered the trustees to fulfill their lustful desires.......thus, exposing their deceiving hearts. Not once did wierwille "right the ship" from its straying voyage to the dark island of servitude. And, what did my tens of thousands of hours of labor profit others....when, they too, were enslaved? Should I relish the "fun times" of slave-rowing twi's ship of horrors?
And, now......offshoot "ships" are gathering followers (servants?) to row another ten years? In the name of wierwille? In the name of "the law of believing" or other putrid doctrines? Notice how even the CFFers who once came here.....have left.
Ya gotta STAND for something.....or you are going to fall for everything.
I'll keep my "one-sided" view....thank you very much. <_<
Mine is one sided reflecting my awful one sided experiences. The way international is also extremely one sided. They only pursue their own convoluted interests and are in no way altruistic.
I know I have a biased..... I never was in the way but all of my interactions other than having family relations as in hanging out as family like they are good to me in such. Every interaction I have had with someone in the way was negative... I try not to you know come in with prejudice but it is hard...
most of it is because of what Word Wolf was speaking of. There is no listening to the other person. It is like you have to 100% agree with them or your an idiot and you can't be friends...
That may be just my limited perception and I may be wrong but I am only speaking from my experience
many times the truth superior view molds into other areas of discussion as well.
so I do have a hard time not coming into the convo on the defensive because of prior experience..
I know Christ calls me to be forgiving and to let things go..... it is just so hard.
Adding to that.... my heart goes out to all of you who have been truly hurt by TWI.
look, i'm not a big bible reader or any such thing
but i read judge not and you will not be judged
condemn not and you will not be condemned
forgive, and you will be forgiven
yes you can tell me context and give me a million more verses about sheeps and wolves
i simply wanted to tell you how i feel
not to mention let him who is without sin cast the first stone
--
i don't feel it's my life's purpose to expose the stupid way or the roman catholic church for that matter :)
not trying to argue, just trying to - i don't know -- peace
that doesn't mean i wouldn't tell my own story
just share this with you my wife feels the same way.... she previously being in the way says she understands but she has a hard time it is Christ like to call anyone names... I do think in some way it is like a self help group people venting but with those verses I think there is a balance and with our interactions as in the words of Paul if we have no love we are a resounding gong.
just share this with you my wife feels the same way.... she previously being in the way says she understands the reaction but she has a hard time with for example is it Christ like to call anyone names?... I do think in some way it is like a self help group people venting but with those verses I think there is a balance and with our interactions as in the words of Paul if we have no love we are a resounding gong.
The only one-sided views I presently hold concern myself, not any other here..
at one point I have to let go. It's not a big deal (but it is)..
where does one go when one is presented with a brick wall..
the way could NEVER provide enough money to repair what they did to me personally. Why demand it.. they can't pay the bill.. let alone even acknowledge that there IS a bill.. as far as they can slightly think, they probably think I still owe them something..
and my experience was tame compared to that of others..
it comes to a point.. that all rosie the ribetter and donna the dumpster are good for is only for a good long laugh..
but that is just my (maybe overly stated) opinion.
so while I am horrified by YOUR treatment.. how do I process mine? At least here? Sometimes it is with blunt words of dry humor..
look, i'm not a big bible reader or any such thing
but i read judge not and you will not be judged
condemn not and you will not be condemned
forgive, and you will be forgiven
yes you can tell me context and give me a million more verses about sheeps and wolves
i simply wanted to tell you how i feel
not to mention let him who is without sin cast the first stone
--
i don't feel it's my life's purpose to expose the stupid way or the roman catholic church for that matter :)
not trying to argue, just trying to - i don't know -- peace
that doesn't mean i wouldn't tell my own story
I truly don't mean to be inflammatory here Excathedra, but, I do want to point out that not understanding those verses in their context or what Jesus is saying when He warns of false teachers.....is what allowed me to be manipulated with scripture in the first place. Jesus also tells us to judge correctly. How do we do that without correct information?
I don't believe that God created evil or that evil is a tangible thing......I think it is the absence of good......it comes in degrees. Evil, when it is hidden behind the facade of good or religion is one of the most insidious ways people are robbed and hurt. It can be confusing and since it is so cloaked it isn't always obvious.
Hearing the end result of people's experiences with TWI is a real red flag and probably enough to warn new people off, but for some, who got so caught up in the religion of TWI, their doctrine, their mindset......finding out where good is really absent can be healing. It can also be a recipe for some messy and confrontational discussion, but I don't think that is always a bad thing.
by wierwille and cohorts to advance his lusts and agendas.
This is exactly right about proper boundaries in TWI. But how were our boundaries moved with such relative ease? Well, most of us were young and our leader was older and had learned how to have his way with people; most of us thought it was all about God's love, at least at first; all of us were human beings, and human beings like feeling special, bless your heart I love you you're the best how about a back rub?
God is faithful. Why would a faithful God leave us trapped in a shameless outfit such as TWI? Well, the good news is, He didn't.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13
Every interaction I have had with someone in the way was negative...
There is no listening to the other person. It is like you have to 100% agree with them or your an idiot and you can't be friends...
Unfortunately, Naten, that's so true. Of some of them. I had a brush with an ex-TWI male, now a CFF "Rev" - pointed out something to him that wasn't accurate in what he said (grammatical, not "Word") and he spent the next 20 mins without pausing for breath going on at me about ... I don't know, I wasn't listening, I just wanted to see how long he could go on without any response from me, no "umm", no nod or shake of the head, no words. I don't know if he even saw me - never wanted any response or comment. After about 20 mins of this monologue, might have been more, I had to excuse myself and go and laugh/cry somewhere private. All I could think was, "What a prat! A disgrace to God, as a 'minister'!"
On the other hand, at lower levels, I've met some really awesome people who genuinely did have a care for others, when they weren't in PFAL-sales mode. That'd probably be once you'd "taken the class."
I dunno Excie, you did cause me to think about it a little. After throwing the prime of my youth into TWI's servitude factory (read Way Corps) I need to sort through the rubble, figure out where my life is headed, untangle the yarn, sort out my beliefs, find my identity apart from the collective, and quite a few other things. GSC is only a small part of the process and I pray that I don't sound too bitter or harsh in my posts. That has never been my intent. I would be lying to say there isn't repressed anger bubbling to the surface from time to time.
After all, I completely re-reouted my life and gave up a career and even left the city I love - I dropped everything because I believed a lie. My own fault? I suppose so. Does that excuse the liars? Not even in the slightest.
It will take Jesus Christ to lay final judgment between me and the people who have harmed me and attacked my family at a most vulnerable time. I can't say I have forgiven them, nor can I say I am without fault. I have been lectured by several in the more popular offshoots to forgive and forget. (Sort of made me wonder why they were so interested in me "forgiving" TWI - for my own good? or so they could continue unimpeded building on VPW's works? I digress)
So, what now? I dunno. More of the same until I run out of steam. This little destructive cult has generated this river of backlash by their own doings. The truth screams against them even if the truth is perhaps tainted by the witnesses personal hurts.
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dabobbada
((((((((excie))))))))
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Steve Lortz
May peace and love rule in your heart excie...
Your presence here has had a positive impact on my life, and I thank you for being open and honest.
Love,
Steve
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OldSkool
Don't go away.
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geisha779
For the most part I do have a one sided view about TWI.....the only redeeming thing I can take from my time is the people. I don't regret the people, well, most of the people.
There are a few I would like to get into a closed room and have a word with but mostly...I remember the people fondly. And I believe that ex-way people are extraordinary. Especially those, who after all that propaganda about adversity.....deal so graciously when life comes at them. If you think about it ...it is pretty amazing.
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skyrider
Yeah......I agree with that.
When one RECOGNIZES the wolf-in-sheeps'-clothing twi hierarchy........am I supposed to be open-minded about it? Nope, not one bit. Nearly all of my posting deals with wierwille, trustees, indoctrination, manipulation, deception, exploitation, hypocrisy, adultery, bait-and-switch tactics, corps cloning, white-washing sins, scrubbing twi-history, bewitching others, etc.
Having experienced a 24-year tenure in twi.....I think I know whereof I speak, ya know?
With each passing year, twi became a spiritual cesspool. As more money funneled into hq, it empowered the trustees to fulfill their lustful desires.......thus, exposing their deceiving hearts. Not once did wierwille "right the ship" from its straying voyage to the dark island of servitude. And, what did my tens of thousands of hours of labor profit others....when, they too, were enslaved? Should I relish the "fun times" of slave-rowing twi's ship of horrors?
And, now......offshoot "ships" are gathering followers (servants?) to row another ten years? In the name of wierwille? In the name of "the law of believing" or other putrid doctrines? Notice how even the CFFers who once came here.....have left.
Ya gotta STAND for something.....or you are going to fall for everything.
I'll keep my "one-sided" view....thank you very much. <_<
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OldSkool
Mine is one sided reflecting my awful one sided experiences. The way international is also extremely one sided. They only pursue their own convoluted interests and are in no way altruistic.
As for the good they supposedly do?
Appetizing bait does not excuse the hidden hook.
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WordWolf
I have to object this this idea that all opinions must be embraced and are equally valid.
Yes, you have a right to your opinion. I also have a right to mine, and that includes the right
to think your opinion is foolish, and that you're conducting yourself poorly. We can agree, at least,
on CIVILITY at the very least, but that doesn't mean I have to AGREE with anyone else.
Oakspear and I approach things from a vast doctrinal divide and neither of us have any plans
to cross it. Has anyone here seen us act uncivilly toward each other? Highly doubtful.
Look- all positions are NOT equally valid, and agreeing with someone is not wrong, and disagreeing
with someone is not wrong, and almost everyone holding an opinion is not discriminatory to the
minority. Most of us here agree that having oxygen in the air and clean drinking water, in and of
themselves, are good things. If someone disagrees, I'm going to point out why I think they are
wrong. If someone gets nasty and defensive about being in the minority here, I'll call them on
THAT, too. We had people posting here on HOLOCAUST DENIAL. They insisted the death tolls were
highly exagerrated and so on. They were allowed to continue posting, and other posters refuted
them. And they acted like they were being persecuted because everyone else was "one-sided."
No, everyone else happened to agree on something and they didn't, and being called out on error
was making them feel bad. If they didn't want others to call them on either poor doctrine or
poor behavior, they shouldn't do either where others can see it and respond. Heck, I've been
called on poor behavior online (not here) and actually thought about it and made improvements.
Not everyone is willing to consider they might currently be wrong. They might say they had
been wrong in the past, but have now "arrived" and that's no longer the case.
Do we all agree Charles Manson's a bad guy? Do we all agree that John Wayne Gacy was a bad guy?
That's not a bad thing-but some would call that "one-sided views."
An attempt at "balanced views" might sound like this, depending on who is saying it:
You all claim Al Capone was a terrible person, with claims he allegedly broke the law, his
supposed racketeering, his (claimed) bootlegging, and the unconfirmed claims he bashed in
someone's skull with a baseball bat. However, I ate at his soup kitchen during the hard
Depression days, and I am offended whenever someone claims he wasn't a nice guy. Why, he
never said a cross word to me, and he was quite polite."
A reply to that might be that the person isn't looking at the whole picture, and that
the benefits a few received were the results of the losses of many.
The first person's reply might sound like this:
You all are just bitter and would rather stew in negative emotions rather than just get
over it and stop claiming he was a bad guy. After all, Capone is dead.
I'm under no constraints to pander to anyone's opinions, positions, or delusions.
I can, however, at least be CIVIL towards them and I'd appreciate the same- which, around
here, isn't the case. I've been called 'the devil' before for disagreeing with someone.
I didn't return the favor.
Personally, I think we do NOT have "one-sided views." We acknowledge we had some good
times in twi, as did some others, and later learned those good times were at someone else's
expense, and good people were in twi as well as bad. Non-GSC posters would say that is NOT
"one-sided", that's "fair."
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OldSkool
I welcome criticism or would not post in a public forums.
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skyrider
And......the scriptures would say that is prudent.
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excathedra
thank you for the replies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D97PRG4WAHA&feature=related
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Naten00
I know I have a biased..... I never was in the way but all of my interactions other than having family relations as in hanging out as family like they are good to me in such. Every interaction I have had with someone in the way was negative... I try not to you know come in with prejudice but it is hard...
most of it is because of what Word Wolf was speaking of. There is no listening to the other person. It is like you have to 100% agree with them or your an idiot and you can't be friends...
That may be just my limited perception and I may be wrong but I am only speaking from my experience
many times the truth superior view molds into other areas of discussion as well.
so I do have a hard time not coming into the convo on the defensive because of prior experience..
I know Christ calls me to be forgiving and to let things go..... it is just so hard.
Adding to that.... my heart goes out to all of you who have been truly hurt by TWI.
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excathedra
but be careful, my dear friend, that you don't get a hard heart
wordwolf, i can't read all those bold paragraphs, but i love you2
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excathedra
look, i'm not a big bible reader or any such thing
but i read judge not and you will not be judged
condemn not and you will not be condemned
forgive, and you will be forgiven
yes you can tell me context and give me a million more verses about sheeps and wolves
i simply wanted to tell you how i feel
not to mention let him who is without sin cast the first stone
--
i don't feel it's my life's purpose to expose the stupid way or the roman catholic church for that matter :)
not trying to argue, just trying to - i don't know -- peace
that doesn't mean i wouldn't tell my own story
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Naten00
just share this with you my wife feels the same way.... she previously being in the way says she understands but she has a hard time it is Christ like to call anyone names... I do think in some way it is like a self help group people venting but with those verses I think there is a balance and with our interactions as in the words of Paul if we have no love we are a resounding gong.
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WordWolf
In case I was unclear,
I was quoting OldSkool, but NOT commenting on OS.
I thought that was worth quoting but made a different point.
*hugs*
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chockfull
It's not my life's purpose - it's just a hobby ;) And a little bit of atonement for being their shill for years to be completely honest.
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Ham
The only one-sided views I presently hold concern myself, not any other here..
at one point I have to let go. It's not a big deal (but it is)..
where does one go when one is presented with a brick wall..
the way could NEVER provide enough money to repair what they did to me personally. Why demand it.. they can't pay the bill.. let alone even acknowledge that there IS a bill.. as far as they can slightly think, they probably think I still owe them something..
and my experience was tame compared to that of others..
it comes to a point.. that all rosie the ribetter and donna the dumpster are good for is only for a good long laugh..
but that is just my (maybe overly stated) opinion.
so while I am horrified by YOUR treatment.. how do I process mine? At least here? Sometimes it is with blunt words of dry humor..
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Ham
I'm supposed to be some kind of peace-maker.
god have mercy on the world..
by the numbers this is supposed to be true..
so where do we go from here..
it's always been some kind of fiendish, delicate balancing act..
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geisha779
I truly don't mean to be inflammatory here Excathedra, but, I do want to point out that not understanding those verses in their context or what Jesus is saying when He warns of false teachers.....is what allowed me to be manipulated with scripture in the first place. Jesus also tells us to judge correctly. How do we do that without correct information?
I don't believe that God created evil or that evil is a tangible thing......I think it is the absence of good......it comes in degrees. Evil, when it is hidden behind the facade of good or religion is one of the most insidious ways people are robbed and hurt. It can be confusing and since it is so cloaked it isn't always obvious.
Hearing the end result of people's experiences with TWI is a real red flag and probably enough to warn new people off, but for some, who got so caught up in the religion of TWI, their doctrine, their mindset......finding out where good is really absent can be healing. It can also be a recipe for some messy and confrontational discussion, but I don't think that is always a bad thing.
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skyrider
Quite the contrary, my friend.
Some of us are speaking out AGAINST the wierwille-infested religion of abuse and sexual predation.
Don't mistake conviction of principle for hardness of heart. In twi, proper boundaries were moved
by wierwille and cohorts to advance his lusts and agendas.
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OperaBuff
This is exactly right about proper boundaries in TWI. But how were our boundaries moved with such relative ease? Well, most of us were young and our leader was older and had learned how to have his way with people; most of us thought it was all about God's love, at least at first; all of us were human beings, and human beings like feeling special, bless your heart I love you you're the best how about a back rub?
God is faithful. Why would a faithful God leave us trapped in a shameless outfit such as TWI? Well, the good news is, He didn't.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13
Escape! Escape! Escape!!
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Twinky
Unfortunately, Naten, that's so true. Of some of them. I had a brush with an ex-TWI male, now a CFF "Rev" - pointed out something to him that wasn't accurate in what he said (grammatical, not "Word") and he spent the next 20 mins without pausing for breath going on at me about ... I don't know, I wasn't listening, I just wanted to see how long he could go on without any response from me, no "umm", no nod or shake of the head, no words. I don't know if he even saw me - never wanted any response or comment. After about 20 mins of this monologue, might have been more, I had to excuse myself and go and laugh/cry somewhere private. All I could think was, "What a prat! A disgrace to God, as a 'minister'!"
On the other hand, at lower levels, I've met some really awesome people who genuinely did have a care for others, when they weren't in PFAL-sales mode. That'd probably be once you'd "taken the class."
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OldSkool
Dug the post and loved the points.
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OldSkool
I dunno Excie, you did cause me to think about it a little. After throwing the prime of my youth into TWI's servitude factory (read Way Corps) I need to sort through the rubble, figure out where my life is headed, untangle the yarn, sort out my beliefs, find my identity apart from the collective, and quite a few other things. GSC is only a small part of the process and I pray that I don't sound too bitter or harsh in my posts. That has never been my intent. I would be lying to say there isn't repressed anger bubbling to the surface from time to time.
After all, I completely re-reouted my life and gave up a career and even left the city I love - I dropped everything because I believed a lie. My own fault? I suppose so. Does that excuse the liars? Not even in the slightest.
It will take Jesus Christ to lay final judgment between me and the people who have harmed me and attacked my family at a most vulnerable time. I can't say I have forgiven them, nor can I say I am without fault. I have been lectured by several in the more popular offshoots to forgive and forget. (Sort of made me wonder why they were so interested in me "forgiving" TWI - for my own good? or so they could continue unimpeded building on VPW's works? I digress)
So, what now? I dunno. More of the same until I run out of steam. This little destructive cult has generated this river of backlash by their own doings. The truth screams against them even if the truth is perhaps tainted by the witnesses personal hurts.
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