AC 79

[waysider]

Hitler drew much inspiration from Mussolini. His (Hitler's) spin-offs, such as the Neo-Nazis, are still very active, even today.

Yeah, but Mussolini didn't get anybody born again.

Nor did Wierwille, according to the various scriptures I've perused over the years.

his biblical teachings are still thriving.

Primarily amongst those who are either unaware of the flagrant inaccuracies or are aware yet, choose to live in denial.

Actual Errors in PFAL

[johniam]

Hitler drew much inspiration from Mussolini. His (Hitler's) spin-offs, such as the Neo-Nazis, are still very active, even today.

Yeah, but Mussolini didn't get anybody born again.

Nor did Wierwille, according to the various scriptures I've perused over the years.

his biblical teachings are still thriving.

Primarily amongst those who are either unaware of the flagrant inaccuracies or are aware yet, choose to live in denial.

Actual Errors in PFAL

Believe what you want, but I believe I'm born again. I'd rather be in "denial" of a scandal sheet, than of the truth. Now I understand why some of you behave as you do.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/25/2012 at 5:37 PM, waysider said:

I find it ironic it's called the "Advanced" Class when, in reality, it's some of the most primitive religious thought one might ever encounter.

Way, we have a winner!!  It really was a primitive religious class, IMO.  I couldn't wait to leave; the class so so boring!!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/25/2012 at 4:23 PM, Watered Garden said:

We lived in Athens, Ohio during that class. It was a wonderful financial windfall for the townies who owned business like restaurants. Of course, we were taught to be notoriously bad tippers by VPW himself, though Mr. Garden and I felt quite differently. Many bars and restaurants just closed down for the summer months as a rule but stayed open for business during those two weeks.

My own recollection was that in some ways for me personally, it was a giant pain in the patootie. We shared a large house with some other folks, one of whom was a 6th WC grad who was the branch leader lady, and we actually had to move out and find another house to rent so her friends and family could squat in the house we had originally rented with another couple. I don't know if the other couple moved or not. Then Miss BL sent some people over to squat with us for the two weeks. I of course was expected to be their servant. In both places, I recall having one heckuva time convincing the "guests" to leave my dog in the house, this is not a farm, it's a town, and he could get hit by a car or picked up by the dog patrol or stolen, LEAVE HIM IN THE HOUSE!!! At least one of our "guests" was known to Mr. Garden, thanked us for the room, and minded her own business. But still, my resentment probably came from being ordered up like a pizza without asking. Of course no one paid or offered to pay or even to take us out to dinner. I stayed the heck away from getting involved with "hosting" not that a mere FLO grad would have been spiritual enough to do so.

I don't recall anything about him saying he had to cast out devil spirits. The Convo wasn't anyplace I regularly went. I do remember there were a lot of summer colds/coughs/sneezing that year and he rebuked the ill and told him to "renew their minds" because they got on his nerves. And I remember him having a fit because some girl ran up to him and gave him a kiss and she had been eating garlic.

Maybe she thought he had a vampire spirit!

WG, VPW had a lot of spirits; maybe he did have a Vampire spirit!!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/27/2012 at 2:45 PM, hiway29 said:

The rant on Joe C#@lter, was one of the low points of the 'class'. Not only was it uncomfortable to sit through, but it was all to familiar behavior from 'leaders' to 'subordinates' . At least it made clear where these junior G men learned it from. I recall talk afterwards that sounded almost like they enjoyed it. Like it was a wonderful example of the need to be the best for His highest and all that, and what an example doc was to not compromise the standard and so on and so forth. I'm sure there are psychological reasons why we subjected ourselves to people yelling at us, and ripping a new one, for the various 'crimes' like not setting a chair right, etc. After all this time, I still wonder at the zoo that outfit was.

Hiway 29, great post!!  TWI was a zoo, and VPW was it's Chief Jackass.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/29/2012 at 1:16 PM, WordWolf said:

Some people seem to confuse reality with television, movies, etc.

Twi leaders seem to do that quite a bit- we discussed recently how ROCKY- a piece of FICTION-

was very instructive as to how believing works (movies are SCRIPTED, our lives are really improv.)

Television and movies are far more DRAMATIC than reality. So-called "reality" TV is heavily edited

to give us the most dramatic incidents in a week or more, and are usually set up to invite more

conflict than reality (like finding people who are unlikely to be willing to put up with each

other and putting them together in a house. Obviously, SOMETHING will happen.)

When Melrose Place (the original) started, I LIKED it because it was similar to reality. However,

the show didn't get ratings, so they made it a wild soap opera and people kept getting thrown

into the swimming pool. People don't USUALLY like to watch reality without drama.

"Why didn't the character do the sensible thing?" "If they did, the episode would be over fast."

That's across genres- I've said things like that with sitcoms, dramas, science fiction, etc.

----------------------------------------------------

Tying that back to the discussion...

If someone actually lacks a background in something, they may be foolish or uneducated enough

to think they can "fake it" or that "it's easy" and they can just use what they saw on television

and in movies. (The television show "Mythbusters" has pointed out that the laws of physics don't

work like in movies, people are even less likely to act that way.)

So, they think that the military is all about blind obedience and yelling at the troops, and

Psychology is solving a problem within a 1/2 hour episode with no lasting effects, and they

really think they understand it all.

This seriously undervalues the HARD WORK of UNDERSTANDING both PEOPLE and PROGRAMS..

The military isn't even about a lot of yelling in BOOT CAMP- when most of the yelling takes place.

It's also not about BLIND OBEDIENCE. Soldiers who are blindly obedient get killed easily when an

order makes no sense.

That having been said, I had at least one teacher in grade school who relied on yelling. She was

least-respected of all the teachers I had in grade school. I've worked with people who supervised

and yelled, and they were respected the LEAST, and those who never yelled were respected the MOST

because they respected the people they weren't yelling at. Yelling is not how you MANAGE people.

It's most effective when ALL you need to do is get their attention. Thus, a soldier was yelled

at when he was pointing a LOADED RIFLE at people, and children get yelled at when they're about

to do something DANGEROUS to them. Most of the time, yelling is unnecessary, and doesn't help.

It can lower the respect the yeller gets, or just anger the people they're expecting to have

work with them. If that's true, the people will only do what they're REQUIRED TO DO and only

what you're watching directly, and they will leave when they can. Companies lose good workers

like that, and officers "accidentally" get hurt or killed if nobody gets them to tone it down.

If you're working with children and can't do things without yelling, then they move you away

from children, generally.

When it came to twi and yelling, at the top, it was a LACK OF DISCIPLINE, a lack of SELF-CONTROL,

that caused them to yell. Leaders who can't control THEMSELVES have no business trying to

control OTHERS- they can't lead THEMSELVES. If leaders are unqualified (as it says in the Bible)

if they can't manage a FAMILY, how can they possibly be competent if they can't manage SELF?

Way, bingo!!  I think leaders who can't control themselves, have no business being leaders.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/29/2012 at 7:45 PM, Jim said:

Getting back to the original question, yes, VPW did say that he walked around the gym/auditorium casting out devil spirits. I don't remember him saying he went down every row and isle. He did say that he wondered what kind of season the team had had, because of the spirit of depression he discerned.

Thanks for the leadership quote, Steve. It's going up on the whiteboard in my office.

I've often wanted to do a thread on the difference between the military and TWI. VPW liked military metaphors, but it was clear to someone who had been in both environments that he didn't have a clue.

Jim, Steve is right about SS in the Navy.  Only the best qualified for Sub School; at the time it was only for men.  I'm a female Sailor, and I can tell you that Boot Camp was harder than he-l!!!  I honestly don't think VPW would have made it through Boot Camp.  Boot Camp is not for the lazy; you are forced to do a lot of things you really don't want to do.  You are not in control; you are told when to do things, and how to do them.  You don't get weekends, or Holidays off.  You don't like the way things are done; to bad.  Eat Caca.  Boot Camp isn't fun for men or women.  I could go on, but I think I have made my point.  Boot Camp is hard, and it is serious business; lazy people don't bother to sign-up.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/31/2012 at 8:12 AM, johniam said:

When I think of leadership, I can't help but think of John Lennon. He wasn't as good a guitar player as George (George taught him how to play the guitar beyond basic chords), and he wasn't as good a singer/songwriter as Paul, but without his leadership, the Beatles don't happen (as we know them). I'll give 2 examples of his leadership:

1) When the Beatles first met and called themselves the Quarrymen, 1957 or so, John had already taken an art elective in grammar school. He was adamant that they consider themselves as "serious artists". Today the word 'artist' is casually thrown around, but back then you didn't call yourself an artist unless you were DiVinci, Monet, Michaelangelo, Bach, Beethoven, or somebody like that. A bunch of teens in a skiffle band? Really? Yet John was very serious about this and it had to have shaped what eventually became the Beatles.

2) After they signed their first contract with EMI they had a chance to come to the USA roughly one year before they actually did. You'd think a bunch of early 20s British guys would love to come here at that or any time, but John Lennon said no. His reasoning was that every British band who came to the USA without ever having a #1 single IN the USA was never heard from again. He wouldn't budge. Then finally 'I wanna hold your hand' got to #1 in the billboard top 100 in January of '64 and the rest.....

VP had that kind of leadership. Bud Morgan was already a pro. He wouldn't have promoted twi comparing VP to Bill Russell and Al Oerter if he'd felt coerced. In the fellowship I attend there are 3 guys who were in the military. Never been yelled at by any of them and they have nothing to say about VP except that I guess John Sommerville thought the way corps were wimps and told VP that. That might explain the running in place in the mud. I bet football players even at the high school level have had to do that.

VPs leadership inspired just too many people from too many different backgrounds to just be a "fraud".

John, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think VPW was a leader in any sense of the word.  I think he was a POS, who raped women, and used the ABS, as his personal piggy bank.  Among other things, he was a mean drunk, and didn't know Jack about God.  You have the right to your opinion about VPW, but I have the right to mine also.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 4/2/2012 at 8:27 PM, Ham said:

Mussolini's extreme right wing rantings are "thriving" as well..

it's just a thought.

along with Hitler's rantings about how the "bad people" are the cause of Germany's (or the world's) problems..

I'm a *product* of da vicster's organization. Am I born again? More likely.. the truth of the matter is I'm going to hell..

at least I'm honest about it.. an honest devil..

Ham, no way honey are you going to hell.  I think God will be thrilled to have you with him for eternity; your posts show that you are a nice guy, IMO.

[T-Bone]

On 3/23/2012 at 11:37 PM, johniam said:

It's March Madness time. NCAA basketball. Excitement is in the air. One team still in entering tonight's games was Ohio University. They were a 13th seed. Did well to get to the sweet 16. Lost tonight to top seeded North Carolina, but took them to overtime. Then it dawned on me that this is the same Ohio U that AC '79 was held at.

I didn't go to the class, but I heard things. One thing I heard was...that when VP got there he felt that something was wrong so he walked through the entire arena, row by row, then cast out the spirit of oppression/depression. Wrong righted. I also heard that prior to this, Ohio U had a really BAD home record. Well, 33 years later they seem to have a good record.

Did anybody else hear this? About VP casting out spirits? I'm just curious.

What if wierwille cast out the spirit of the hook shot…

and with it seven other spirits more inept than that…

let’s see…there was…

the spirit of plagiarism

the spirit of Drambuie

the spirit of roofie

the spirit of Elmer Gantry (usually pairs up with spirit of roofie)

the spirit of hissy fit

the spirit of The Third Reich

the spirit of Kool Menthol Cigarettes

 

hmmmm…I was at Advanced Class ’79 – and if those spirits were cast out – I don’t think “the teacher” would have showed up.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

What if wierwille cast out the spirit of the hook shot…

 

 

and with it seven other spirits more inept than that…

 

 

let’s see…there was…

 

 

the spirit of plagiarism

 

 

the spirit of Drambuie

 

 

the spirit of roofie

 

 

the spirit of Elmer Gantry (usually pairs up with spirit of roofie)

 

 

the spirit of hissy fit

 

 

the spirit of The Third Reich

 

 

the spirit of Kool Menthol Cigarettes

 

 

 

 

 

hmmmm…I was at Advanced Class ’79 – and if those spirits were cast out – I don’t think “the teacher” would have showed up.

 

 

T-Bone, great post!!  I think you are right; if those Spirits had been cast out, VPW would never have shown up.  Imagine him trying to cast out DS, what a laugh!!

[T-Bone]

Let's beef it up for an official press release:

 

"That was the greatest attempt at mass exorcism in hookey-pook  history....period !"

Edited July 19, 2017 by T-Bone
Clarity and hilarity

[Grace Valerie Claire]

43 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

Let's beef it up for an official press release:

 

"That was the greatest attempt at mass exorcism in hookey-pook  history....period !"

T-Bone, you rock!!

[skyrider]

1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

Let's beef it up for an official press release:

 

"That was the greatest attempt at mass exorcism in hookey-pook  history....period !"

That no one was there to witness the hookey-pook specialist, vpw, at work.....

Skeptics press release:  If spirits are deemed cast out and no one can corroborate.....credit goes down the crapper.

[T-Bone]

6 minutes ago, skyrider said:

That no one was there to witness the hookey-pook specialist, vpw, at work.....

Skeptics press release:  If spirits are deemed cast out and no one can corroborate.....credit goes down the crapper.

But according to Ke11yanne Con-way'$ School of Wierwille Apologetics , there's always the alternative facts to consider.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

3 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

But according to Ke11yanne Con-way'$ School of Wierwille Apologetics , there's always the alternative facts to consider.

That is true T-Bone!!

[Bolshevik]

3 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

But according to Ke11yanne Con-way'$ School of Wierwille Apologetics , there's always the alternative facts to consider.

The local population was spooked? . . . OMG, look at what we've 'attracted' . . . THAT guy  . . .  we better change our ways. 

And the area improved.

In that way, VPW had a positive affect . . .

[Grace Valerie Claire]

4 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

The local population was spooked? . . . OMG, look at what we've 'attracted' . . . THAT guy  . . .  we better change our ways. 

And the area improved.

In that way, VPW had a positive affect . . .

Bol, ?????

[Bolshevik]

4 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, ?????

It's just a joke . . maybe too dry

[Grace Valerie Claire]

2 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

It's just a joke . . maybe too dry

Bol, okay.

[T-Bone]

This just in from CNN's website - that's Chris NumbNuts (Chris G33r's alternate universe)

"look at the truth behind the facts"

[waysider]

It reminds me of an old Little Johnny joke

Little Johnny noticed one of his classmates was wearing an unusual ring. When he asked about it, the classmate said it was to ward off charging bull elephants. Johnny was quick to point out that there weren't any charging bull elephants in Chicago. To which the classmate responded, "See how effective it is?".

Edited July 19, 2017 by waysider

[skyrider]

For the past 30 years.........I'm becoming more adept at operating discerning of cults and know that I don't even have to be in their auditorium, or conferences, or classes, to detect their presence.  Unmistakably, cults huddle in clusters of groupthink and are sycophants of lockstep loyalty.  And, though they like to hide in the shadows of deception, hypocrisy, and unaccountability.........they mark their territories with exploitation and devastation of others' souls.

Hell.........I don't even need to be anywhere near their headquarters or twig fellowships to smell the cult presence.  It wreaks misery and despair as it grasps to drown others in its darkness.  Thanks to GSC-posters, this discernment is exponentially flourishing far and wide.