I think during a fit of delusion of gandeur, he maybe IMAGINED he had the ability to run off some kind of spiritual oppression, or something..
But yes, the account is "factual". As far as the victoid's inflated self-importance, that is..
I went to a school that was within one year of achieving the *distinction* of holding the longest losing streak in any league of college football. The way, inc did not intervene and cast out spirits. However, they turned around and actually won a few championships. No help from vic.
I thought the *class* was held at Ball State University, not Ohio State. Maybe I'm wrong..
The Vicster had as much "spiritual ability" as a pet rock. He was a fraud. He may have done a rain dance or two. It might have rained. His dance didn't cause it to rain. Capisce?
Ham: PFAL '77 was held at Ball State U Muncie, IN. AC'79 was at Ohio U at Athens, OH. Ohio State is in Columbus, OH. I just wondered if VP did walk through every row of seats in that place like I heard.
We lived in Athens, Ohio during that class. It was a wonderful financial windfall for the townies who owned business like restaurants. Of course, we were taught to be notoriously bad tippers by VPW himself, though Mr. Garden and I felt quite differently. Many bars and restaurants just closed down for the summer months as a rule but stayed open for business during those two weeks.
My own recollection was that in some ways for me personally, it was a giant pain in the patootie. We shared a large house with some other folks, one of whom was a 6th WC grad who was the branch leader lady, and we actually had to move out and find another house to rent so her friends and family could squat in the house we had originally rented with another couple. I don't know if the other couple moved or not. Then Miss BL sent some people over to squat with us for the two weeks. I of course was expected to be their servant. In both places, I recall having one heckuva time convincing the "guests" to leave my dog in the house, this is not a farm, it's a town, and he could get hit by a car or picked up by the dog patrol or stolen, LEAVE HIM IN THE HOUSE!!! At least one of our "guests" was known to Mr. Garden, thanked us for the room, and minded her own business. But still, my resentment probably came from being ordered up like a pizza without asking. Of course no one paid or offered to pay or even to take us out to dinner. I stayed the heck away from getting involved with "hosting" not that a mere FLO grad would have been spiritual enough to do so.
I don't recall anything about him saying he had to cast out devil spirits. The Convo wasn't anyplace I regularly went. I do remember there were a lot of summer colds/coughs/sneezing that year and he rebuked the ill and told him to "renew their minds" because they got on his nerves. And I remember him having a fit because some girl ran up to him and gave him a kiss and she had been eating garlic.
I always thought that screaming and bitching about trivial stuff like that was evidence of a lack of self control rather than deep spirituality.
I mean, what is the big deal? So the girl ate garlic! Get over it! So you don't like the lighting? Oh, right that must surely mean there are devil spirits about? There was one time when a transformer blew and the Convo was plunged into darkness. That was of course another devil spirit tripping a switch.
I spent a great deal of time after the first week exhausted and napping during afternoon sessions, staying home to "get a few things done" and falling asleep. It got boring pretty quick.
So you don't like the lighting? Oh, right that must surely mean there are devil spirits about? There was one time when a transformer blew and the Convo was plunged into darkness. That was of course another devil spirit tripping a switch.
They still do this dog and pony show today. Each year at the advanced class there was always something pointed out as the students went into the discerning of spirits sessions that was used to prove how mad the devil was for them teaching those sessions.
The disturbance Du jour was usually thunderstorms. Yep, north western Ohio in the summer time. Thunderstorms ALL the time, every year without fail. BUT....when one happens along during the advanced class it's mad devil spirits!
Of course if nothing happens at all then they remark about how great everyone's believing was to keep the adversary at bay.
T....when one happens along during the advanced class it's mad devil spirits!
Of course if nothing happens at all then they remark about how great everyone's believing was to keep the adversary at bay.
"Marian Keech (real name: Dorothy Martin) was the leader of a UFO cult in the 1950s. She claimed to get messages from extraterrestrials, known as The Guardians, through automatic writing. Like the Heaven's Gate folks forty years later, Keech and her followers, known as The Seekers or The Brotherhood of the Seven Rays, were waiting to be picked up by flying saucers. In Keech's prophecy, her group of eleven was to be saved just before the earth was to be destroyed by a massive flood on December 21, 1954. When it became evident that there would be no flood and the Guardians weren't stopping by to pick them up, Keech became elated. She said she'd just received a telepathic message from the Guardians saying that her group of believers had spread so much light with their unflagging faith that God had spared the world from the cataclysm (Levine 2003: 206).
More important, the Seekers didn't abandon her. Most became more devoted after the failed prophecy. (Only two left the cult when the world didn't end.) "Most disciples not only stayed but, having made that decision, were now even more convinced than before that Keech had been right all along....Being wrong turned them into true believers (ibid.)." Some people will go to bizarre lengths to avoid inconsistency between their cherished beliefs and the facts."
The same guy who told me about VP going through the rows and casting out oppression/depression also told me that the spirit of O/D would make you feel like somebody was pressing their finger tips down on the top of your head. This reminds me of 2 things:
1) About a year later I was at Busch stadium watching the Cardinals play the Pirates. The Cardinals weren't doing well at first. I felt like somebody was pressing their finger tips down on the top of my head. So I prayed for God to cast the spirit of O/D out of the stadium. Not 1 minute later Ted Simmons hit a home run. Cardinals won the game. My wife is always pointing out the flawed logic of "after, therefore, because of" but that WAS the sequence of events.
2) Fast forward to 1987. I was in Universal studios in Hollywood, CA. They were herding us from one presentation to another. We were about to see a demonstration of stunt persons in a western setting. There was this clown looking guy who seemed to be working for the studios. He was waving people this way and that way where he wanted them to sit. Suddenly the clown guy whacks this bald guy on the top of his head, then turns away and continues waving people to the seats. Me and the guy I was with were already seated when this happened and the bald guy just looks around like WTF. Later the clown guy tried it again, but the person he was going to hit turned quickly in the clown's direction. The clown guy had to abort. Tried to look nonchalant. Wasn't discovered, but it was kind of amusing.
Off topic - don't spend a lot of time here or on the computer anymore - life intervened, but I couldn't help notice that johniam seems to have had an epiphany of sorts about TWI. Is that correct?
I wasn't at AC 79 but I heard that VP ripped into the camera operator for doing something slightly wrong. The operator didn't move the camera quick enough, or some such thing, so VP laid into him for about 10 minutes, right in front of the entire audience. Sounds about as edifying as a propeller blade. Bless your heart.
I wasn't at AC 79 but I heard that VP ripped into the camera operator for doing something slightly wrong. The operator didn't move the camera quick enough, or some such thing, so VP laid into him for about 10 minutes, right in front of the entire audience. Sounds about as edifying as a propeller blade. Bless your heart.
Yep. Vic stood up,and his head was out of view briefly. That, and his following tirade, were a permanent part of the AC after that. Well, until LCM filmed his own Advanced Rant... :lol:
Off topic - don't spend a lot of time here or on the computer anymore - life intervened, but I couldn't help notice that johniam seems to have had an epiphany of sorts about TWI. Is that correct?
Johniam has been expressing criticisms of twi in these forums for a long time. Usually people here seem to want to focus on his more twi-favorable views, though, and take him to task for those. It's as if his criticisms are invisible.
Johniam has been expressing criticisms of twi in these forums for a long time. Usually people here seem to want to focus on his more twi-favorable views, though, and take him to task for those. It's as if his criticisms are invisible.
He gets criticisms for trolling, whether he means to or not.
He gets criticisms for trolling, whether he means to or not.
I have to agree. It's not (usually) his opinions that come under fire, it's his posting tactics. (ie: straw man arguments, red herrings, blatant topic changes and diversions in general.)
edit: and now we've spun into a meta-discussion. (a discussion of the discussion, itself)
I dunno. If I REALLY, REALLY bought into the vicster's lies and hypocrisy.. maybe I would go to extraordinary measures to defend my decision.. of sorts.
Maybe I never really did..
I don't think I've ever really enjoyed one single step of stability along the way..
why settle on stability, when one can really LIVE?
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T-Bone
What if wierwille cast out the spirit of the hook shot… and with it seven other spirits more inept than that… let’s see…there was… the spirit of plagiarism the spirit of Drambu
Steve Lortz
Good post, WordWolf! I received my original leadership training in the U.S. Navy submarine service. While I was in The Way, I just assumed that the top leadership understood how to lead. I didn't sp
waysider
I find it ironic it's called the "Advanced" Class when, in reality, it's some of the most primitive religious thought one might ever encounter.
Ham
I think during a fit of delusion of gandeur, he maybe IMAGINED he had the ability to run off some kind of spiritual oppression, or something..
But yes, the account is "factual". As far as the victoid's inflated self-importance, that is..
I went to a school that was within one year of achieving the *distinction* of holding the longest losing streak in any league of college football. The way, inc did not intervene and cast out spirits. However, they turned around and actually won a few championships. No help from vic.
I thought the *class* was held at Ball State University, not Ohio State. Maybe I'm wrong..
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hiway29
didn't work-about the most oppressive, depressing venues I've ever experienced.
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waysider
The Vicster had as much "spiritual ability" as a pet rock. He was a fraud. He may have done a rain dance or two. It might have rained. His dance didn't cause it to rain. Capisce?
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johniam
Ham: PFAL '77 was held at Ball State U Muncie, IN. AC'79 was at Ohio U at Athens, OH. Ohio State is in Columbus, OH. I just wondered if VP did walk through every row of seats in that place like I heard.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I was at AC 79. Did Vic say he walked throughout, casting out devils? Yes. Did he do it? Unlikely. :)
I had a pretty good time at that class.
George
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outandabout
I can't believe I went to all that stuff.
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johniam
Yes, but we did it.....together
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Watered Garden
We lived in Athens, Ohio during that class. It was a wonderful financial windfall for the townies who owned business like restaurants. Of course, we were taught to be notoriously bad tippers by VPW himself, though Mr. Garden and I felt quite differently. Many bars and restaurants just closed down for the summer months as a rule but stayed open for business during those two weeks.
My own recollection was that in some ways for me personally, it was a giant pain in the patootie. We shared a large house with some other folks, one of whom was a 6th WC grad who was the branch leader lady, and we actually had to move out and find another house to rent so her friends and family could squat in the house we had originally rented with another couple. I don't know if the other couple moved or not. Then Miss BL sent some people over to squat with us for the two weeks. I of course was expected to be their servant. In both places, I recall having one heckuva time convincing the "guests" to leave my dog in the house, this is not a farm, it's a town, and he could get hit by a car or picked up by the dog patrol or stolen, LEAVE HIM IN THE HOUSE!!! At least one of our "guests" was known to Mr. Garden, thanked us for the room, and minded her own business. But still, my resentment probably came from being ordered up like a pizza without asking. Of course no one paid or offered to pay or even to take us out to dinner. I stayed the heck away from getting involved with "hosting" not that a mere FLO grad would have been spiritual enough to do so.
I don't recall anything about him saying he had to cast out devil spirits. The Convo wasn't anyplace I regularly went. I do remember there were a lot of summer colds/coughs/sneezing that year and he rebuked the ill and told him to "renew their minds" because they got on his nerves. And I remember him having a fit because some girl ran up to him and gave him a kiss and she had been eating garlic.
Maybe she thought he had a vampire spirit!
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excathedra
WG, that really really sucks
i was there and i also remember him getting all ....ed about whatever
--
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha ha ha haa ahhh ha ha ha ah hah haha hah--
i was happy to be there to escape in-residence training program
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waysider
I find it ironic it's called the "Advanced" Class when, in reality, it's some of the most primitive religious thought one might ever encounter.
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Watered Garden
I always thought that screaming and bitching about trivial stuff like that was evidence of a lack of self control rather than deep spirituality.
I mean, what is the big deal? So the girl ate garlic! Get over it! So you don't like the lighting? Oh, right that must surely mean there are devil spirits about? There was one time when a transformer blew and the Convo was plunged into darkness. That was of course another devil spirit tripping a switch.
I spent a great deal of time after the first week exhausted and napping during afternoon sessions, staying home to "get a few things done" and falling asleep. It got boring pretty quick.
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OldSkool
They still do this dog and pony show today. Each year at the advanced class there was always something pointed out as the students went into the discerning of spirits sessions that was used to prove how mad the devil was for them teaching those sessions.
The disturbance Du jour was usually thunderstorms. Yep, north western Ohio in the summer time. Thunderstorms ALL the time, every year without fail. BUT....when one happens along during the advanced class it's mad devil spirits!
Of course if nothing happens at all then they remark about how great everyone's believing was to keep the adversary at bay.
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waysider
"Marian Keech (real name: Dorothy Martin) was the leader of a UFO cult in the 1950s. She claimed to get messages from extraterrestrials, known as The Guardians, through automatic writing. Like the Heaven's Gate folks forty years later, Keech and her followers, known as The Seekers or The Brotherhood of the Seven Rays, were waiting to be picked up by flying saucers. In Keech's prophecy, her group of eleven was to be saved just before the earth was to be destroyed by a massive flood on December 21, 1954. When it became evident that there would be no flood and the Guardians weren't stopping by to pick them up, Keech became elated. She said she'd just received a telepathic message from the Guardians saying that her group of believers had spread so much light with their unflagging faith that God had spared the world from the cataclysm (Levine 2003: 206).
More important, the Seekers didn't abandon her. Most became more devoted after the failed prophecy. (Only two left the cult when the world didn't end.) "Most disciples not only stayed but, having made that decision, were now even more convinced than before that Keech had been right all along....Being wrong turned them into true believers (ibid.)." Some people will go to bizarre lengths to avoid inconsistency between their cherished beliefs and the facts."
SOURCE
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johniam
The same guy who told me about VP going through the rows and casting out oppression/depression also told me that the spirit of O/D would make you feel like somebody was pressing their finger tips down on the top of your head. This reminds me of 2 things:
1) About a year later I was at Busch stadium watching the Cardinals play the Pirates. The Cardinals weren't doing well at first. I felt like somebody was pressing their finger tips down on the top of my head. So I prayed for God to cast the spirit of O/D out of the stadium. Not 1 minute later Ted Simmons hit a home run. Cardinals won the game. My wife is always pointing out the flawed logic of "after, therefore, because of" but that WAS the sequence of events.
2) Fast forward to 1987. I was in Universal studios in Hollywood, CA. They were herding us from one presentation to another. We were about to see a demonstration of stunt persons in a western setting. There was this clown looking guy who seemed to be working for the studios. He was waving people this way and that way where he wanted them to sit. Suddenly the clown guy whacks this bald guy on the top of his head, then turns away and continues waving people to the seats. Me and the guy I was with were already seated when this happened and the bald guy just looks around like WTF. Later the clown guy tried it again, but the person he was going to hit turned quickly in the clown's direction. The clown guy had to abort. Tried to look nonchalant. Wasn't discovered, but it was kind of amusing.
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OldSkool
My cat eats cat food.
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johniam
Lucky you. My cat drinks out of the toilet.
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waysider
Marsupials scare me...because they're fast.
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Tzaia
Off topic - don't spend a lot of time here or on the computer anymore - life intervened, but I couldn't help notice that johniam seems to have had an epiphany of sorts about TWI. Is that correct?
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OperaBuff
I wasn't at AC 79 but I heard that VP ripped into the camera operator for doing something slightly wrong. The operator didn't move the camera quick enough, or some such thing, so VP laid into him for about 10 minutes, right in front of the entire audience. Sounds about as edifying as a propeller blade. Bless your heart.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Yep. Vic stood up,and his head was out of view briefly. That, and his following tirade, were a permanent part of the AC after that. Well, until LCM filmed his own Advanced Rant... :lol:
George
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Linda Z
Johniam has been expressing criticisms of twi in these forums for a long time. Usually people here seem to want to focus on his more twi-favorable views, though, and take him to task for those. It's as if his criticisms are invisible.
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OldSkool
He gets criticisms for trolling, whether he means to or not.
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waysider
I have to agree. It's not (usually) his opinions that come under fire, it's his posting tactics. (ie: straw man arguments, red herrings, blatant topic changes and diversions in general.)
edit: and now we've spun into a meta-discussion. (a discussion of the discussion, itself)
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Ham
I dunno. If I REALLY, REALLY bought into the vicster's lies and hypocrisy.. maybe I would go to extraordinary measures to defend my decision.. of sorts.
Maybe I never really did..
I don't think I've ever really enjoyed one single step of stability along the way..
why settle on stability, when one can really LIVE?
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