Looking back at my own experiences, I think it's pretty hard to predict who'll be drawn into a cult. All sorts of people got sucked into the Way vortex, from hippies to blue collar workers to people with advanced academic degrees. Who a cult will target and why is a whole different matter.
Looking back at my own experiences, I think it's pretty hard to predict who'll be drawn into a cult. All sorts of people got sucked into the Way vortex, from hippies to blue collar workers to people with advanced academic degrees. Who a cult will target and why is a whole different matter.
Certainly true. We came from all walks of life. But I tend to think that the way's methods for outreach intentionally target those who are most vulnerable to be drawn into a cult.
Certainly true. We came from all walks of life. But I tend to think that the way's methods for outreach intentionally target those who are most vulnerable to be drawn into a cult.
So who does this little corn field cult target?
and why?
Like vacuum cleaner salesmen........twi's sales target family, friends and co-workers. It's a soft-sale when, for instance, a troubled youth turns his life around and the parents are thankful. Sometimes, they in turn show interest and involvement.
The first few months of "love-bombing" is a deceptive ploy to get others involved. Rarily, have I seen a higher ranking leader (Region/Trunk/Cabinet/Trustee) display the kind of genuine Christian/Good Samaritan qualities for the sake of simply reaching out to help one in need. They are selling....and if you're not buying....then they wipe "the dust from their feet" and move on. Who ever hears of hospital visits? rehab visits? juvenile center visits? prison visits?
Why? One of twi's major erroneous teachings, imo, is from Acts 6:3,4 -- where seven men were chosen and appointed "over this business...to give themselves continually to the ministry of the word." In other words, THEY STAY IN THEIR OFFICES AND RE-SEARCH VIC'S WORDS TO TEACH EACH SUNDAY. Getting people to their teachings and classes is the best thing, in their minds, that they offer. To them, the Lord's business is running classes. ppppppfffffftttt
No. They don't specifically target "the vulnerable."
They target everybody.
But everybody's got vulnerabilities.
The "benefits" of PFAL on the back of the witnessing card are specific areas where everybody can be vulnerable. Who wouldn't want "more harmony in the home"?
All those parts on the back of the card ... they help target where any individual might be vulnerable.
And some other people are just hungry for positive bold Christian teaching, where their local churches seem weak, boring or irrelevant to what's going on in individuals' lives.
They are selling....and if you're not buying....then they wipe "the dust from their feet" and move on.
And here is where I think the vulnerability is exposed. If you offer a differing point of view, question them, view them with doubt and stand your ground then they are out of there. On the other hand if a person buys their logic then the hook is slowly set.
I remember so vividly being coached (like a good Kirby salesman) how to identify who to work with. The meek, those who would listen, those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, etc. In other words those who are receptive and receptive only.
"The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power For Abundant Living......"
"We should witness every chance we get."
"I suggest you read How To Win Friends and Influence People..."
"Every person and every situation will be different."
-------------------------
So, it's like fishing on a lake you're unfamiliar with. You troll from the boat to see if there is any chance of activity. If not, you move the boat, change the bait and adjust your other variables, such as hook size, depth, etc.
So there you have it. They troll for anything that ventures to give a nibble. They adjust their methods to whatever kind of "fish" happens to be biting on a particular day.
---------------------------------
I just don't think you can allow yourself to think it's your fault they reeled you in.
I agree with you to a point. No doubt at first it is a shotgun approach, target everyone and anyone. But it's in the methods used to reel a person in that the victim is selected. Of course everyone has the best intentions.
After being way disciple twice and going through the corps. We were taught how to reel people in. How to select our candidates according to criteria set before us by the board of directors. Modified somewhat, but I suspect the same criteria Wierwille used back in the beginning.
I just don't think you can allow yourself to think it's your fault they reeled you in.
Thanks, I really appreciate that - it means a lot. I have already dealt with that several times over at this stage of my recovery. I have been reading Losing the Way and am in chapter 7. I think the author does an excellent job in exposing the methods used against us from her own point of view.
One of the main techniques they brought in from the Dale Carnegie class is to listen to what people are telling you and use that to identify their "needs". Then, show them how the class can "meet" those particular needs. So, yeah, in that sense, they are searching for your vulnerabilities so they can target them correctly, using the appropriate bait. They recognize that everyone (as Twinky said) has vulnerabilities.
One of the main techniques they brought in from the Dale Carnegie class is to listen to what people are telling you and use that to identify their "needs". Then, show them how the class can "meet" those particular needs. So, yeah, in that sense, they are searching for your vulnerabilities so they can target them correctly, using the appropriate bait. They recognize that everyone (as Twinky said) has vulnerabilities.
The vulnerable, the dissatisfied, those at the end of their rope, the hungering and those searching for truth are those who heard possible hope in twi's sales spiel.
If you were comfortable or indoctrinated enough in yo' own thang, you wouldn't be in the slightest interested in what twi had to say.
The vulnerable, the dissatisfied, those at the end of their rope, the hungering and those searching for truth are those who heard possible hope in twi's sales spiel.
If you were comfortable or indoctrinated enough in yo' own thang, you wouldn't be in the slightest interested in what twi had to say.
Yeah.......vulnerable, dissatisfied, searching and all that.
Two things that come to mind: 1) Transition and 2) Tranference
Here at the cafe.......lots of discussions and exploration of past decisions attempt to uncover the attractions and reasons for committing years of our lives to twi. Like many of you, I find it beneficial to dig back into the recesses of my mind and shine some light on the question why?
Two things immediately surface:
1) Transition: At that point in time, I was a teenager looking for *meaning in life* and was heading off to college. My world was changing........transitions in location, education, emotion, friendships, and just about every aspect of life. Free-wheeling along and alone and vulnerable, I also was in need of some spiritual ground to stand on.
When traveling, one is vulnerable to unfamiliar situations, road conditions, accidents, car-jackers, muggers, etc...... one should be wary and vigilant at all times.
2) Transference: When WOW Ambassadors witnessed to me during those college years, I was intrigued by their love and care and devotion to spiritual truths. Spending that year with them gave me insight into spiritual commitment, daily prayer, heart-felt communication.......all those things that embody the Chrisitian walk as a unique member and participant in God's household.
My mistake.........I transferred these first-hand qualities assuming that twi leadership at hq, and indeed wierwille, were the spiritual impetus and guardians of these truths. Just teaching or taking pfal does NOT entitle one's spiritual worth.
I did NOT do my homework......I did NOT take the time to check out twi's credentials. The hype and hoopla of twi and all that "they" offered led me astray. Guess I was looking forward rather that UPward.
Two things that come to mind: 1) Transition and 2) Tranference
Yeah, that seems to say it pretty good.
Too bad we didn't have the internet back then. (For me the early '70s.)
My mistake.........I transferred these first-hand qualities assuming that twi leadership at hq, and indeed wierwille, were the spiritual impetus and guardians of these truths. Just teaching or taking pfal does NOT entitle one's spiritual worth.
I did NOT do my homework......I did NOT take the time to check out twi's credentials. The hype and hoopla of twi and all that "they" offered led me astray. Guess I was looking forward rather that UPward.
Back in '73, it was before all the info was out there, and by the the time it was, we were sure of our 'godliness.' :P Of course it didn't help that the newspapers could not just print the facts but turned us into arsenal hoarding anti american baby sacrificing mindless brain chomping zombies too.
Things were much different back then, it was the dawning of the age of aquarius. (For a shock to you ol' timers, try looking at the origional woodstock film, before you got groovy, you were the same as those townfolk. )
Certainly true. We came from all walks of life. But I tend to think that the way's methods for outreach intentionally target those who are most vulnerable to be drawn into a cult.
So who does this little corn field cult target?
and why?
OS, I can only speak for myself. I had a very unhappy, f-up childhood. I think I got involved in TWI, for several reasons. One of them was because, I wanted to be loved. Another was because I felt that I was special in TWI. Perhaps if my childhood had been happy, I would never have been venerable to the TWI.
I suspect the way international intentionally targets the vulnerable, those who have need of real help. I was in this position when I was first witnessed to. Struggling with cocaine, my life was a mess and I spent my time running the streets. Long about the time I wanted to change was when I decided I would give fellowship a try.
Long story short. I was confronted with circular reasoning and absolute statements that denied critical thinking. Therefore, I let myself sink into way world and I gave my all for it's furtherance.
So there I was, in my early twenties and in need of help to get my life on track. And there they were ready to take my under their wings, keep me in the safety of the household where the truth reigned supreme.
In the end I was their slave. Working for pennies on the dollar, told where to live, what do, how to act, what to think - it was all or nothing. Sad thing was their all turned out to be nothing.
Could it be that the ones who apply critical thinking to the way international's doctrines are not vulnerable? You know the one - the same ones we called worldly and possessed when they argued against the way's doctrines?
Physical circuits get built into the brain when hit with dopamine repeatedly. You have to actively work build new circuits to suppress the old ones. Because the old circuits atrophy but don't completely disappear.
I think everyone knows they can know not to give in to something, yet there's this unquestionably strong urge to do it.
I believe cults follow those same principles. One reason they are hard to overcome.
I would speculate that all those "positive experiences" at Advanced Classes and other events, where people come back with big idiot smiles on their faces . . . are ways to induce dopamine release.
Positive experience . . . which is just a show . . . results in new brain circuitry. Making it easier to repeat later.
No. They don't specifically target "the vulnerable."
They target everybody.
But everybody's got vulnerabilities.
The "benefits" of PFAL on the back of the witnessing card are specific areas where everybody can be vulnerable. Who wouldn't want "more harmony in the home"?
All those parts on the back of the card ... they help target where any individual might be vulnerable.
And some other people are just hungry for positive bold Christian teaching, where their local churches seem weak, boring or irrelevant to what's going on in individuals' lives.
Predators prey on the weak....like Twinky said we all have our weaknesses...and I think the most vulnerable are those with weak critical thinking skills.
I suspect the way international intentionally targets the vulnerable, those who have need of real help. I was in this position when I was first witnessed to. Struggling with cocaine, my life was a mess and I spent my time running the streets. Long about the time I wanted to change was when I decided I would give fellowship a try.
Long story short. I was confronted with circular reasoning and absolute statements that denied critical thinking. Therefore, I let myself sink into way world and I gave my all for it's furtherance.
So there I was, in my early twenties and in need of help to get my life on track. And there they were ready to take my under their wings, keep me in the safety of the household where the truth reigned supreme.
In the end I was their slave. Working for pennies on the dollar, told where to live, what do, how to act, what to think - it was all or nothing. Sad thing was their all turned out to be nothing.
Could it be that the ones who apply critical thinking to the way international's doctrines are not vulnerable? You know the one - the same ones we called worldly and possessed when they argued against the way's doctrines?
OS, interesting post. Why do some join religious cults like the Mormons, TWI, or the JWs? I think there are a variety of reasons why people become involved. Some of us felt unloved, and unwanted. Some of us had poor critical thinking skills, while others had low self-esteem issues. I think I got involved in TWI because I felt loved, and valued as a person. Others may have joined for reasons known only to them.
No. They don't specifically target "the vulnerable."
They target everybody.
But everybody's got vulnerabilities.
The "benefits" of PFAL on the back of the witnessing card are specific areas where everybody can be vulnerable. Who wouldn't want "more harmony in the home"?
All those parts on the back of the card ... they help target where any individual might be vulnerable.
And some other people are just hungry for positive bold Christian teaching, where their local churches seem weak, boring or irrelevant to what's going on in individuals' lives.
AND, the cult incrementally taught aspects that moved/removed moral/ethical boundaries..........sexual behavior before marriage, serving the mog, being able to "spiritually handle it," abortion--only life after first breath, serve the cult----not honor father & mother, etc.
ADD........guilt, intimidation, manipulation, exploitation........and one's "vulnerabilities" became expanded the longer one succumbed to this cult cauldron.
This is interesting because I recently looked into a bit of geographical AND botanical background about the ' tares' Jesus referred to when he mentioned about the tares and wheat growing together until ' harvest' lest the wheat ( God's people ) be uprooted along with the tares. The question of course is WHO or WHAT are the ' tares' ? The tares are of course another name for ' weeds'....but here's what I thought was interesting...in the Palestine area one of the most common weeds is the ' lolium temuletum' or ' bearded darnell'. The bearded darnell is a species of rye grass that so closely resembles wheat that it can only be differentiated ONCE the wheat has reached maturity ! Also, this bearded darnell contains a soporific poison that if ingested causes a stupor or almost hypnotic, sleepy effect to the victim !! Any thoughts on who or what the tares are ? My guess is the ' pc' brigade, but what say you ? ( maybe this shoulda been posted in the doctrinal section but when I read about these posts ala 'brain trips' couldn't help myself lol )
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waysider
Looking back at my own experiences, I think it's pretty hard to predict who'll be drawn into a cult. All sorts of people got sucked into the Way vortex, from hippies to blue collar workers to people with advanced academic degrees. Who a cult will target and why is a whole different matter.
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OldSkool
Certainly true. We came from all walks of life. But I tend to think that the way's methods for outreach intentionally target those who are most vulnerable to be drawn into a cult.
So who does this little corn field cult target?
and why?
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skyrider
Like vacuum cleaner salesmen........twi's sales target family, friends and co-workers. It's a soft-sale when, for instance, a troubled youth turns his life around and the parents are thankful. Sometimes, they in turn show interest and involvement.
The first few months of "love-bombing" is a deceptive ploy to get others involved. Rarily, have I seen a higher ranking leader (Region/Trunk/Cabinet/Trustee) display the kind of genuine Christian/Good Samaritan qualities for the sake of simply reaching out to help one in need. They are selling....and if you're not buying....then they wipe "the dust from their feet" and move on. Who ever hears of hospital visits? rehab visits? juvenile center visits? prison visits?
Why? One of twi's major erroneous teachings, imo, is from Acts 6:3,4 -- where seven men were chosen and appointed "over this business...to give themselves continually to the ministry of the word." In other words, THEY STAY IN THEIR OFFICES AND RE-SEARCH VIC'S WORDS TO TEACH EACH SUNDAY. Getting people to their teachings and classes is the best thing, in their minds, that they offer. To them, the Lord's business is running classes. ppppppfffffftttt
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Twinky
No. They don't specifically target "the vulnerable."
They target everybody.
But everybody's got vulnerabilities.
The "benefits" of PFAL on the back of the witnessing card are specific areas where everybody can be vulnerable. Who wouldn't want "more harmony in the home"?
All those parts on the back of the card ... they help target where any individual might be vulnerable.
And some other people are just hungry for positive bold Christian teaching, where their local churches seem weak, boring or irrelevant to what's going on in individuals' lives.
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OldSkool
And here is where I think the vulnerability is exposed. If you offer a differing point of view, question them, view them with doubt and stand your ground then they are out of there. On the other hand if a person buys their logic then the hook is slowly set.
I remember so vividly being coached (like a good Kirby salesman) how to identify who to work with. The meek, those who would listen, those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, etc. In other words those who are receptive and receptive only.
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waysider
From the W&U syllabus
"The basic reason we witness is to help people into the classes on Power For Abundant Living......"
"We should witness every chance we get."
"I suggest you read How To Win Friends and Influence People..."
"Every person and every situation will be different."
-------------------------
So, it's like fishing on a lake you're unfamiliar with. You troll from the boat to see if there is any chance of activity. If not, you move the boat, change the bait and adjust your other variables, such as hook size, depth, etc.
---------------------------------------------------
"Some people's reasoning and beliefs are based on: Emotion, feelings, experience, and social conformity, not logical truth."
----------------------------------------------------
"If you've got their attention, begin undershepherding....or....excuse yourself."
--------------------------------------------------
So there you have it. They troll for anything that ventures to give a nibble. They adjust their methods to whatever kind of "fish" happens to be biting on a particular day.
---------------------------------
I just don't think you can allow yourself to think it's your fault they reeled you in.
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OldSkool
I agree with you to a point. No doubt at first it is a shotgun approach, target everyone and anyone. But it's in the methods used to reel a person in that the victim is selected. Of course everyone has the best intentions.
After being way disciple twice and going through the corps. We were taught how to reel people in. How to select our candidates according to criteria set before us by the board of directors. Modified somewhat, but I suspect the same criteria Wierwille used back in the beginning.
Thanks, I really appreciate that - it means a lot. I have already dealt with that several times over at this stage of my recovery. I have been reading Losing the Way and am in chapter 7. I think the author does an excellent job in exposing the methods used against us from her own point of view.
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waysider
I think we're all kind of saying the same thing.
One of the main techniques they brought in from the Dale Carnegie class is to listen to what people are telling you and use that to identify their "needs". Then, show them how the class can "meet" those particular needs. So, yeah, in that sense, they are searching for your vulnerabilities so they can target them correctly, using the appropriate bait. They recognize that everyone (as Twinky said) has vulnerabilities.
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OldSkool
Well said.
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skyrider
And.....everyone wants to better their current state or money situation, right?
After all.....why settle for "good" when you can have the BEST..?
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excathedra
pppppfffffttttttt does a bear sheet in the frikking woods
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dabobbada
The vulnerable, the dissatisfied, those at the end of their rope, the hungering and those searching for truth are those who heard possible hope in twi's sales spiel.
If you were comfortable or indoctrinated enough in yo' own thang, you wouldn't be in the slightest interested in what twi had to say.
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skyrider
Yeah.......vulnerable, dissatisfied, searching and all that.
Two things that come to mind: 1) Transition and 2) Tranference
Transition & Transference - Click Here
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dabobbada
Yeah, that seems to say it pretty good.
Too bad we didn't have the internet back then. (For me the early '70s.)
Back in '73, it was before all the info was out there, and by the the time it was, we were sure of our 'godliness.' :P Of course it didn't help that the newspapers could not just print the facts but turned us into arsenal hoarding anti american baby sacrificing mindless brain chomping zombies too.
Things were much different back then, it was the dawning of the age of aquarius. (For a shock to you ol' timers, try looking at the origional woodstock film, before you got groovy, you were the same as those townfolk.
)
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Ham
Targeting the vulnerable..
I think da way had a lot of targets.
On one level, those searching for answers, and who could provide a little bit of money, blood and sweat.
On another, those with excess of money looking for a wort(less) organization to throw it to..
on another, those with excess of fame to provide some kind of stamp of approval..
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, I can only speak for myself. I had a very unhappy, f-up childhood. I think I got involved in TWI, for several reasons. One of them was because, I wanted to be loved. Another was because I felt that I was special in TWI. Perhaps if my childhood had been happy, I would never have been venerable to the TWI.
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Bolshevik
Physical circuits get built into the brain when hit with dopamine repeatedly. You have to actively work build new circuits to suppress the old ones. Because the old circuits atrophy but don't completely disappear.
I think everyone knows they can know not to give in to something, yet there's this unquestionably strong urge to do it.
I believe cults follow those same principles. One reason they are hard to overcome.
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Bolshevik
I would speculate that all those "positive experiences" at Advanced Classes and other events, where people come back with big idiot smiles on their faces . . . are ways to induce dopamine release.
Positive experience . . . which is just a show . . . results in new brain circuitry. Making it easier to repeat later.
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Bolshevik
And that's what old-timers are looking for . . . dopamine hits
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T-Bone
Predators prey on the weak....like Twinky said we all have our weaknesses...and I think the most vulnerable are those with weak critical thinking skills.
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Bolshevik
TWI is also a system where prey, prey on the prey.
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Grace Valerie Claire
OS, interesting post. Why do some join religious cults like the Mormons, TWI, or the JWs? I think there are a variety of reasons why people become involved. Some of us felt unloved, and unwanted. Some of us had poor critical thinking skills, while others had low self-esteem issues. I think I got involved in TWI because I felt loved, and valued as a person. Others may have joined for reasons known only to them.
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skyrider
AND, the cult incrementally taught aspects that moved/removed moral/ethical boundaries..........sexual behavior before marriage, serving the mog, being able to "spiritually handle it," abortion--only life after first breath, serve the cult----not honor father & mother, etc.
ADD........guilt, intimidation, manipulation, exploitation........and one's "vulnerabilities" became expanded the longer one succumbed to this cult cauldron.
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Allan
This is interesting because I recently looked into a bit of geographical AND botanical background about the ' tares' Jesus referred to when he mentioned about the tares and wheat growing together until ' harvest' lest the wheat ( God's people ) be uprooted along with the tares. The question of course is WHO or WHAT are the ' tares' ? The tares are of course another name for ' weeds'....but here's what I thought was interesting...in the Palestine area one of the most common weeds is the ' lolium temuletum' or ' bearded darnell'. The bearded darnell is a species of rye grass that so closely resembles wheat that it can only be differentiated ONCE the wheat has reached maturity ! Also, this bearded darnell contains a soporific poison that if ingested causes a stupor or almost hypnotic, sleepy effect to the victim !! Any thoughts on who or what the tares are ? My guess is the ' pc' brigade, but what say you ? ( maybe this shoulda been posted in the doctrinal section but when I read about these posts ala 'brain trips' couldn't help myself lol )
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