Wierwille and His Friend...Drambuie

[skyrider]

"I found the Kingdom-of Heaven within me and, oh, how my ideas of God changed."

And, there you have it folks......"the law of believing" works for saint and sinner alike.

[Linda Z]

WordWolf said:

One person who researched the twi history got ahold of some rather hard-to-get documents. The reason vpw was FORCED TO RESIGN involved (no surprise!) some rather inappropriate behavior concerning a church secretary.

I've always read here that people heard that this was the reason for his being forced to resign. This is the first time I've read about there being supporting documents.

If the person who dug up those documents would post them here, it certainly would/should go a long way toward knocking VPW off the pedestal that some people still have him on.

Cold, hard facts are hard to argue with.

Do you have a copy of the documents, WW? Can you post them? If not, can you get the person who found them to post them?

[Twinky]

Here....p.215 is Wierwille's resignation letter.

On St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church letterhead:

Where did you get this from, Skyrider?? Page 215 of what?

August 7, 1957

To the Consistory of The

St. Peter's E. & R. Church

and to

The Congregation:

... I have spoken of you to people the world over and I shall continue to tell them of you.

Well, he did honor that promise. He told of them in PFAL. Most disparagingly.

[waysider]

Where did you get this from, Skyrider?? Page 215 of what?

I'm not certain but I think that may be from Victor Paul Wierwille: Born Again To Serve by Dorothea Kipp Wierwille

HERE

Edited March 18, 2012 by waysider

[waysider]

Skyrider's response was referencing Wierwille's resignation being accepted by unanimous vote of the Consistory.

Edited March 18, 2012 by waysider

[Twinky]

Thanks, Waysider.

I noticed this:

"1 new from $201.04 14 used from $30.50"

Methinks those who wish to sell for $201 will be waiting a long time. The 2nd hand book sellers have prices from $30 to $195.

And here's me using this sort of stuff for firelighting.

[waysider]

And here's me using this sort of stuff for firelighting.

That's because you've discovered its true usefulness. (snicker)

[Ham]

and, on page 93, the previous page before Cliffe is the infamous account in pfal of the fortune-teller at the Van Wert County Fair.

I don't remember this..

[waysider]

If I remember correctly, Wierwille said something to the effect that they stood outside the fortune teller's tent all day and prayed/believed for her to leave. Sure enough, she eventually packed up and left. It's a good thing she did, too. It's a known fact that business drops off drastically after closing time.

[skyrider]

Where did you get this from, Skyrider?? Page 215 of what?

Twinky.....yeah, Mrs. Wierwille's book -- Born Again to Serve

I referenced it in my post by stating -- "Mrs. Wierwille and Karen would have included this "unanimous vote" information in the sanitized version

of vpw's life and ministry from 1916-1961"

Guess I should be clearer for those who aren't familiar with this book.

.

Edited March 18, 2012 by skyrider

[skyrider]

And.....speaking of Mrs. W's writing of vpw's life from 1916-1961 (volume 1)

When is twi going to FINISH writing volume 2?

What about those years 1961-1985 of wierwille's life? C'mon twi....you're, supposedly, the ministry that pays homage to attention to detail and all. Surely, twi....you are NOT going to let wierwille's life and legacy fall by the wayside. What about the last 24 years of his life? The filming of pfal? The trips to California? Hefn_r and Doop? The Way West and The Way East? The Zero Corps? The rise of "you-can-stay-as-long-as-your-money-holds-out" martindale to receive the wierwille mantle of next twi president? What about Ambassador One, motorcoaches, motorcycles, and wierwille's inner circle of handlers? Etc. Etc.

I mean, really......this is the mog of the universe we are talking about here. You can't leave his (sanitized) biography INCOMPLETE. His life didn't stop in 1961. In fact, he'd just gotten off the Van Wert Church payroll only some 4 years prior to this......and, really, A MINISTRY THAT WAS FOUR YEARS OLD (1961) at the end of volume 1. C'mon twi......why won't you finish the work that Mrs. Wierwille set out to do?

Could it be......it gets harder and harder to sanitize actual events?

Could it be......too many would see thru the blatant hypocrisy of glossing over failures?

Could it be......the details would expose the glaring truth of fabricated lies?

Could it be......that too many ex-clergy might come forward to debunk a volume 2?

It never ceases to amaze me that the only way twi stays "relevant" is ....... TO HIDE THEIR PAST.

.

Edited March 18, 2012 by skyrider

[Twinky]

Twinky.....yeah, Mrs. Wierwille's book -- Born Again to Serve

I referenced it in my post by stating -- "Mrs. Wierwille and Karen would have included this "unanimous vote" information in the sanitized version

of vpw's life and ministry from 1916-1961"

Guess I should be clearer for those who aren't familiar with this book.

I don't remember ever seeing this book or hearing reference to it while I was in TWI. Perhaps it had already been withdrawn. Maybe my brain refuses to drag this junk up any more, LOL?

[WordWolf]

I don't remember ever seeing this book or hearing reference to it while I was in TWI. Perhaps it had already been withdrawn. Maybe my brain refuses to drag this junk up any more, LOL?

Depends on when you were in. It wasn't released before the exodus of 1988-1989.

If you were in during the 90s, you might have seen it.

[OldSkool]

I don't remember ever seeing this book or hearing reference to it while I was in TWI. Perhaps it had already been withdrawn. Maybe my brain refuses to drag this junk up any more, LOL?

I forget when it was released, but it may have been after you left for greener pastures. It's still very much in print and offers a nice, sanitized version of the early years. Even though we see it contains damaging information on VPW because you just can't make his history not stink.

[WordWolf]

I've always read here that people heard that this was the reason for his being forced to resign. This is the first time I've read about there being supporting documents.

If the person who dug up those documents would post them here, it certainly would/should go a long way toward knocking VPW off the pedestal that some people still have him on.

Cold, hard facts are hard to argue with.

Do you have a copy of the documents, WW? Can you post them? If not, can you get the person who found them to post them?

I'm not sure they CURRENTLY have a copy of the documents.

I certainly do not, and the person, last I heard, wants their privacy a lot,

so I can't tell what I DO know about who they were and how they got ahold of them.

There's enough "cold, hard facts" just going from what twi documented in its "history" books

to warrent leaving twi- "the way:living in love", "vp and me", and "born again to serve".

[skyrider]

I forget when it was released, but it may have been after you left for greener pastures. It's still very much in print and offers a nice, sanitized version of the early years. Even though we see it contains damaging information on VPW because you just can't make his history not stink.

Mrs. W's book was released in 1996.

At the time, Mrs. Wierwille had "personalized sticker signatures" to place in new release books. Rather than her

signing hundreds of books, this was her way of personalizing each book. My book was "signed by her."

Amazing......how differently I view this book today. <_<

[excathedra]

sticky

[drums4fun]

When one does their doctoral dissertation.....is this a common practice to advance one's master thesis work?

Or, is this a cut-and-paste job that deviates from standard academic practices?

With correspondences course-work to Pikes Peak Seminary, on the surface it appears that wierwille simply submitted his master's thesis work with a tweaked version. It almost looks like a psuedo-plagairism of oneself if you ask me. :)

Skyrider:

The doctoral dissertation doesn't have to advance one's master's thesis work, although it may. It depends on the field and the path of inquiry the student is taking. For me, it was 10 years between my master's and doctorate, and by the time I started my dissertation, I was in a very different place than where I'd been as I finished my master's. There is also an assumption in academia that the dissertation research should be an original and rigorous work that would make a unique contribution to the field. Did VP achieve that? And with VP's habit of using others' intellectual property as his own, I doubt that he would have made it very far in a sound doctoral program anyway.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Besides, it is generally understood that Master's thesis and doctoral disertations are property of the University/graduate school/theological seminary and the student must ask permission to reprint his/her work from the institution