Wierwille and His Friend...Drambuie

[skyrider]

Wierwille was an outlier.....he never fit in anywhere.

In childhood, he hid in the woods to avoid work. Some say that he went there to talk to the trees.

In wedding.....he and Dorothy went to Kentucky and married in secret during vic's 3rd year at Mission House College.

In pastorate...in 1941, vpw was pastor of St. Jacob's Church in Payne, OH (a vacancy of two years)

In radio......inspired by Rev. Charles Fuller's radio program, vic assembles five to start Vesper Chimes

In searching..vic attends E. Stanley Jones Ashram in July 1944. Wierwille is pictured in back row of some 160 attendees.

On the go.....vpw kept searching for more answers....or was he simply searching to find his marketing schtick?

A youngster among men.....the young pastor wierwille was eager to invite guest speakers to his Van Wert church.

Encouraged by men....Glenn Clark, who had attended Stiles' Ashram also, told young vic about "Camps Farthest Out"

Thesis work.....master's thesis, "Peter as an Evangelistic Preacher"....doctoral dissertation, "Peter the Preacher"

Challenging or lazy?........why did wierwille take the SAME thesis path for his doctorate? And, this is re-search?

Pikes Peak Seminary.....wierwille took correspondence work with this outlier seminary in Colorado. Unmerited short-cuts.

BG Leonard......wierwille stole BG's class and taught it as his own. Documented time and time again.

Still on church payroll.....wierwille stayed on Van Wert Payroll for nearly 4 years.....an outlier of his own congregation.

Brother Leonard....even visited wierwille a year later, August 1-8, 1954 to teach more about faith, healing and miracles.

Bishop KC Pillai...a rogue Anglican bishop from India was in a Tennessee Baptist church when Harry invited him to see vic.

Pillai opened India doors.....and wierwille and family were hosted by Dr. I.S. Williams during their India stay.

Unanimous vote on wierwille's resignation at St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church, Van Wert Ohio.....August 7, 1957.

Yeah....wierwille was an outlier and he went rogue as he deviated from academic disciplines and standards. Guest speakers, ministers and mentors of wierwille were, oftentimes, outside the pail of mainstream Christianity. Even wierwille's attendance at the Tulsa Convention as noted in twi's book, Born Again to Serve, shows a disdain for Oral Roberts....as wierwille is self-centered to have his own questions answered.

The scriptures speak of shepherds and hirelings........wierwille was an hireling. He did not care for the "sheep".....wierwille cared about only one thing -- himself. Isn't it rather interesting that wierwille does his master's and doctorate dissertation on Peter -- a man who was outspoken and left Jesus for a short period? Yet, did wierwille ever come full circle and embrace Jesus' deliverance and in-depth teachings in all their magnitude? I think not. Today, I would describe twi as "wierwillian".....not Christianity.

One of the major areas where wierwille went rogue, in my opinion, was his cornerstone teaching of "Believing Equals Receiving." Wierwille expounded on his teaching that "Believing was one of the greatest laws in the universe." What you believe, you become. If one isn't careful, this sort of teaching leads to "what the mind can conceive, it can achieve." Thus, the mind becomes the central focus of concern, of worship. But if believing is the central tenet.....then how did God bring to pass the impossible when Zacharias BELIEVED NOT the promise of God that was fulfilled in due season, the birth of John the Baptist? [Luke 1:20]

Wierwille sold his outlier weeds in pfal....that were pawned off as a wheat field of abundance. The weeds of "believing" and "speaking in tongues" and "man of God" etc. etc.....grew and grew to where they choked off any scriptures that had any relevance to Christians. But really, why should any of this surprise us? Look at wierwille's past. Look at wierwille's credentials. Look at all the lies and shortcuts wierwille took to acclaim a merited, scholarly position. Even 30 years ago, few in mainstream christian circles ever heard of "Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille." Today, wierwille's "work" has COME TO NOUGHT [Acts 5:38] just as Gamaliel said it would.

Sometimes, I think that Wierwille's one and only true friend was....Drambuie.

<_<

[skyrider]

Thesis work.....master's thesis, "Peter as an Evangelistic Preacher"....doctoral dissertation, "Peter the Preacher"

When one does their doctoral dissertation.....is this a common practice to advance one's master thesis work?

Or, is this a cut-and-paste job that deviates from standard academic practices?

With correspondences course-work to Pikes Peak Seminary, on the surface it appears that wierwille simply submitted his master's thesis work with a tweaked version. It almost looks like a psuedo-plagairism of oneself if you ask me. :)

[chockfull]

When one does their doctoral dissertation.....is this a common practice to advance one's master thesis work?

Or, is this a cut-and-paste job that deviates from standard academic practices?

With correspondences course-work to Pikes Peak Seminary, on the surface it appears that wierwille simply submitted his master's thesis work with a tweaked version. It almost looks like a psuedo-plagairism of oneself if you ask me. :)

Wouldnt' surprise me on the Pikes Peak Seminary. That organization was basically a 9 bedroom house that rented out rooms to people. A couple of ThD's got together and formed the seminary as a correspondance school. Sounds like an easy money business venture to me, capitalizing on their degrees to make money. I'm sure the standards for quality there were way lower, and more to the point, lacking the resources to detect plagiarism in any form.

The other thing that stands out to me is VP's interest is ALL in the homiletics side. How to be a huckster. How to sell. Put together a spiel to make people feel better. Sell some snake oil.

[WordWolf]

The "believing" occult practices were from the "Word of Faith" movement but especially

from "Christian" (occultist) Albert Cliffe.

http://www.precastconcrete.org/~messiah7/rsr_lawbelieve.htm

""I found the Kingdom-of Heaven within me and, oh, how my ideas of God changed.(3) God to me is all life, all power, all love."(4) God is the name given to that unchangeable principle which is the source of all life, of all existence. As God He is impersonal, but as we come to know Him day by day as expressed in each one of us, He really becomes personal to us...(5)"

Man, Cliffe newly concluded, must contain the divine energy for "My mind is part of His divine-mind"(6) and "we are inseparable from God"(7), Cliffe wrote. Man's goal, then, is to grow, developing his latent "God power" since "...if there is an unpardonable sin it is the damming up of God's powers within us." (8)

According to Cliffe, attainment of this goal is aided by the impersonal Christ force indwelling every human being. Since "there is no death"(9) a person simply goes to "that plane of thought which you have prepared for yourself" which can loosely be termed "heaven" or "hell."(10) Cliffe's pantheistic viewpoint combats Scripture, promoting man from sinful creature to a microcosm of the "Creator." These a-Christian beliefs have been marketed for centuries by mystics and occultists, often under the thin disguise of Christian terminology which Cliffe favors. "

[WordWolf]

Wierwille was an outlier.....he never fit in anywhere.

In childhood, he hid in the woods to avoid work. Some say that he went there to talk to the trees.

The plagiarist plagiarized that from Billy Graham, who actually did that when younger

to overcome shyness. Before the internet, that was possible to get away with.

(The "praying for the trees" bit he stole. The "hide in the woods and neglect your chores"

thing wasn't Graham. It didn't fool his father, either. According to twi's own publication,

his father said that since vpw was too lazy to be a decent farmer, he'd be a flop

as a preacher.

In wedding.....he and Dorothy went to Kentucky and married in secret during vic's 3rd year at Mission House College.

In pastorate...in 1941, vpw was pastor of St. Jacob's Church in Payne, OH (a vacancy of two years)

In radio......inspired by Rev. Charles Fuller's radio program, vic assembles five to start Vesper Chimes

In searching..vic attends E. Stanley Jones Ashram in July 1944. Wierwille is pictured in back row of some 160 attendees.

On the go.....vpw kept searching for more answers....or was he simply searching to find his marketing schtick?

A youngster among men.....the young pastor wierwille was eager to invite guest speakers to his Van Wert church.

Encouraged by men....Glenn Clark, who had attended Stiles' Ashram also, told young vic about "Camps Farthest Out"

Thesis work.....master's thesis, "Peter as an Evangelistic Preacher"....doctoral dissertation, "Peter the Preacher"

Challenging or lazy?........why did wierwille take the SAME thesis path for his doctorate? And, this is re-search?

Pikes Peak Seminary.....wierwille took correspondence work with this outlier seminary in Colorado. Unmerited short-cuts.

BG Leonard......wierwille stole BG's class and taught it as his own. Documented time and time again.

Still on church payroll.....wierwille stayed on Van Wert Payroll for nearly 4 years.....an outlier of his own congregation.

Brother Leonard....even visited wierwille a year later, August 1-8, 1954 to teach more about faith, healing and miracles.

Bishop KC Pillai...a rogue Anglican bishop from India was in a Tennessee Baptist church when Harry invited him to see vic.

Pillai opened India doors.....and wierwille and family were hosted by Dr. I.S. Williams during their India stay.

Unanimous vote on wierwille's resignation at St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church, Van Wert Ohio.....August 7, 1957.

Yeah....wierwille was an outlier and he went rogue as he deviated from academic disciplines and standards. Guest speakers, ministers and mentors of wierwille were, oftentimes, outside the pail of mainstream Christianity. Even wierwille's attendance at the Tulsa Convention as noted in twi's book, Born Again to Serve, shows a disdain for Oral Roberts....as wierwille is self-centered to have his own questions answered.

The scriptures speak of shepherds and hirelings........wierwille was an hireling. He did not care for the "sheep".....wierwille cared about only one thing -- himself. Isn't it rather interesting that wierwille does his master's and doctorate dissertation on Peter -- a man who was outspoken and left Jesus for a short period? Yet, did wierwille ever come full circle and embrace Jesus' deliverance and in-depth teachings in all their magnitude? I think not. Today, I would describe twi as "wierwillian".....not Christianity.

One of the major areas where wierwille went rogue, in my opinion, was his cornerstone teaching of "Believing Equals Receiving." Wierwille expounded on his teaching that "Believing was one of the greatest laws in the universe." What you believe, you become. If one isn't careful, this sort of teaching leads to "what the mind can conceive, it can achieve." Thus, the mind becomes the central focus of concern, of worship. But if believing is the central tenet.....then how did God bring to pass the impossible when Zacharias BELIEVED NOT the promise of God that was fulfilled in due season, the birth of John the Baptist? [Luke 1:20]

Wierwille sold his outlier weeds in pfal....that were pawned off as a wheat field of abundance. The weeds of "believing" and "speaking in tongues" and "man of God" etc. etc.....grew and grew to where they choked off any scriptures that had any relevance to Christians. But really, why should any of this surprise us? Look at wierwille's past. Look at wierwille's credentials. Look at all the lies and shortcuts wierwille took to acclaim a merited, scholarly position. Even 30 years ago, few in mainstream christian circles ever heard of "Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille." Today, wierwille's "work" has COME TO NOUGHT [Acts 5:38] just as Gamaliel said it would.

Sometimes, I think that Wierwille's one and only true friend was....Drambuie.

<_<

[Rejoice]

Unanimous vote on wierwille's resignation at St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church, Van Wert Ohio.....August 7, 1957.

Unanimous vote? Somewhere I missed this piece of history. Does it take a unanimous vote to remove a clergyman?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Rejoice

[skyrider]

The "believing" occult practices were from the "Word of Faith" movement but especially

from "Christian" (occultist) Albert Cliffe.

WW....thanks for your input and the links.

Yeah.....as all this Cliffe/occult stuff comes to the forefront, it brings to mind why I had that "law of believing"

skepticism during those twi years. And, especially when corps week came around and we were soundly reproved for our

lack of believing to STOP THE RAIN.

Wierwille was a walking carnival show.....from juggling to fire-breathing all in one.

[OldSkool]

WW....thanks for your input and the links.

Yeah.....as all this Cliffe/occult stuff comes to the forefront, it brings to mind why I had that "law of believing"

skepticism during those twi years.

Thanks as well form me, WW.

I had studied various occult writers prior to getting involved with the way international. So when I heard Christ in you (a.k.a. unleash the power within) teachings where we release power by renewing our minds, synchronized life, the law of believing, etc., I recognized it right away as the occult. Only problem was I immediately chalked it up to the adversary counterfeiting the true God's workings.

Silly me. I knew and rationalized it away.

I have never heard of Albert Cliffe until finding him on GSC.

[skyrider]

Unanimous vote on wierwille's resignation at St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church, Van Wert Ohio.....August 7, 1957.

Unanimous vote? Somewhere I missed this piece of history. Does it take a unanimous vote to remove a clergyman?

Rejoice.....I seriously doubt that Mrs. Wierwille and Karen would have included this "unanimous vote" information in the sanitized version of vpw's life and ministry from 1916-1961 had in not been included AT THE BOTTOM OF WIERWILLE'S RESIGNATION LETTER.

Why wierwille deemed it necessary, or important, to state it on his resignation letter is somewhat puzzling. It strikes me of a narcissist mindset.....that God had far more important work ahead for wierwille than this congregation. Read it for yourself below.

Here....p.215 is Wierwille's resignation letter.

On St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church letterhead:

August 7, 1957

To the Consistory of The

St. Peter's E. & R. Church

and to

The Congregation:

Greetings to you in the precious Name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Because I believe God would have me devote more and more time to the non-sectarian, interdenominational work of The Way, Inc., International; to writing and teaching, and thus I would have to be gone from the local Congregation for weeks and even months at a time, therefore, after all these years of service in your midst, I lovingly tender my resignation as your Pastor at this time.

Never has a minister appreciated His Congregation and people more nor has a minister had more joy in serving a people. I shall forever be indebted to Almighty God and you for His bringing us together and for your accepting us and my ministry. It has been your love, prayer and understanding that has allowed me the freedom to have the hours and the ministry in The Word which God has seen fit to extend to us by His mercy and grace. I have spoken of you to people the world over and I shall continue to tell them of you. You have been to us a wonderful congregation and it has been in your midst that our present ministry on The Word of God has unfolded and come into fruition. May God's continued blessing be on you now, and may His reward be abundant to each of you when we shall all appear before Him in the Resurrection.

Naturally we love you with a great love after these many years with you, and we pray that you will send us forth with your love and prayers, that our lives may be a blessing to His children around the world.

Sincerely,

In His Service,

Victor Paul Wierwille

VPW/rb

P.S. Accepted by unanimous vote of the Consistory, August 7, 1957. The Consistory furthermore accepted December 8, 1957 or anytime previous to this which would be most convenient to Dr. Wierwille as his final Sunday in our Congregation.

[Rejoice]

thank you Skyrider!

[skyrider]

thank you Skyrider!

As we pass around the "thank yous"....

First of all, I want to again whole-heartedly thank WordWolf for his diligence on GS.

Time after time, WordWolf searches out links and information that has helped immensely

through the years. The Albert Cliffe information is one that I often overlook in my

attempts to explain the wierwille doctrine. Much, much appreciated WW.....

And....a shoutout of thank you to the rest of you fine folks. :)

[excathedra]

VPW/rb -- would that be rhoda becker (i think that's her last name) as in rhoda becker wierwille? we used to work together in word processing....

Unanimous vote on wierwille's resignation at St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church, Van Wert Ohio.....August 7, 1957.

St. PETER's voted him out when he did his master's and doctorate's on PETER !!!!!!!

i was going to bring up that believing stuff and who were those sisters or somebodies he was involved with? i can't remember -- some hookie pookies

it's been a long time since i thought of him as a godly man. i just do not believe he would have done to me what he did (and many others) if he was really godly

i'm not even saying godly men aren't human or without fault, but you can't destroy people like that and be living for the lord jesus christ. yes, you can teach many things that you got from others or that are really true -- whatev

is there something in the bible about even if nutcases preached christ it's a good thing - can't remember right now

[skyrider]

VPW/rb -- would that be rhoda becker (i think that's her last name) as in rhoda becker wierwille? we used to work together in word processing....

Excie......yep, Rhoda Becker worked as vpw's personal secretary beginning in September 1947.

A wonderful, dedicated woman. With my parents not attending my wedding in the BRC......at my request, Reuben and Rhoda were seated in the groom's section,

in place of my parents.

I find it easy to separate my love for kind folks from the evil machinery of twi.

.

Edited March 15, 2012 by skyrider

[OldSkool]

i just do not believe he would have done to me what he did (and many others) if he was really godly

I couldn't agree more. He is a man who established himself in a non-profit theocracy and used it's trappings to cloak his unbridled lust.

[geisha779]

As we pass around the "thank yous"....

First of all, I want to again whole-heartedly thank WordWolf for his diligence on GS.

Time after time, WordWolf searches out links and information that has helped immensely

through the years. The Albert Cliffe information is one that I often overlook in my

attempts to explain the wierwille doctrine. Much, much appreciated WW.....

And....a shoutout of thank you to the rest of you fine folks. :)

Me too! Very helpful info!! Thanks!

I know that E.W Keynon is considered the father of the Word of Faith movement and spawned converts like Kenneth Hagin and Copeland..... right on down to Benny Hinn. Teachers you want to avoid. VP and the people he "borrowed" from are the reason I tossed the baby, the water, and the tub. There is way too much to sift through to find the few possible bits of truth mixed in with the rest.

Edited March 16, 2012 by geisha779

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

I thought Wierwille was forced to resign by the NW Ohio Synod of the E&R Church denomination or face defrockment trial because of his pamphlet Dilema of Foreign Missions and statements of accusing all denominations including his own being Satanic perversions of truth and possible threats(violence?) to his superiors, or at least from 2nd and 3rd hand discussions. Or was he boasting? similar rumors of possible dark horse candidate for the new UCC denomination.

[skyrider]

Albert Cliffe -- p.94,95 Born Again to Serve...twi's book

"Albert Cliffe was a biochemist from Canada who had seen miracles by believing God's promises. He had even successfully practiced his believing on herds of cattle. In the introduction to his book Let Go and Let God, Al wrote, 'By means of faith in a living Christ, a resurrected Christ, you can gain such security that nothing can ever defeat you, no sickness can ever overwhelm you, and by the practice of this faith you can learn to gain victory over life and death.' Al taught us that death only overtakes a person when he gets tired and quits believing to live.

Al described himself as 'a cold Episcopalian' in his early years. All of this changed, however, when he was healed by God's power of an incurable disease. The miracle occurred one day as he lay sick in bed. The radio had been turned on when, at the half hour, the program changed and the evangelist Rev. Charles Fuller came on. No one was around to change the station, and Al wasn't able to get out of bed to change it himself or he would have. So although he cursed the situation he was in, he was a captive audience. As he listened to Rev. Fuller, he became interested in the message, gradually realizing that it was directed specifically at him. Then a phenomenon occurred. He said it was Pentecost in his room as he heard 'like a rushing mighty wind.' He was born again and healed from his incurable disease that day while hearing Charles Fuller speak God's Word on the radio.

Al was the invited guest of the Spiritual 40 Club from January 4 to 8, 1953. He was the only one of our Spiritual 40 Club guests, as I recall it, who didn't stay with us in our home. All the rest stayed in Don's bedroom in the upstairs of the parsonage. But Al thought his cigarette smoking would have offended us, which, of course, it wouldn't have.

During his four-day visit with us, we held prayer clinics every afternoon. His topic was 'The Miracle of Believing.' His evening teachings were titled 'Lessons in Living.'

Al's favorite figurative statement in teaching was 'get your foot off the hose,' meaning, remove all doubt and fear from your mind so the positive answers can come into manifestation. Let the prayer hose be open so that the answers can flow through freely.

Al Cliffe taught Dr. Wierwille a great principle when our family came up against the local school board on the question of inoculating our children, which we didn't want to do but that the school officials said was mandatory. Al told us to prioritize our time, to let the fight against inoculation go by the boards so that Dr. Wierwille could spend his time and energy holding forth the accuracy of the Word. This was timely, so good advice which we have applied in many situations since then.

Dr. Wierwille stated that, 'all those wonderful men....they were fantastic....Somehow by God's mercy and grace, we just kept going on with the Word. That's what has made this ministry possible.'"

[OldSkool]

Hidden in plain sight.

[WordWolf]

I thought Wierwille was forced to resign by the NW Ohio Synod of the E&R Church denomination or face defrockment trial because of his pamphlet Dilema of Foreign Missions and statements of accusing all denominations including his own being Satanic perversions of truth and possible threats(violence?) to his superiors, or at least from 2nd and 3rd hand discussions. Or was he boasting? similar rumors of possible dark horse candidate for the new UCC denomination.

It was a lot nicer than the truth.

One person who researched the twi history got ahold of some rather hard-to-get documents.

The reason vpw was FORCED TO RESIGN involved (no surprise!) some rather inappropriate

behavior concerning a church secretary.

In typical vpw fashion, vpw pulled a "you can't fire me-I quit" and sent off the letter

we just saw, claiming his motives for leaving were pure.

The Church, of course, said, "Sure, just as long as you're leaving" and let the matter drop.

The letter he fired off said he was leaving because God was directing him to spend more

time with others and so on.

Later, vpw told twi innies he left because he got static because he exposed "foreign missions."

Typical vpw style- he told DIFFERENT lies to DIFFERENT people at different times,

each tailored to their audience of the time. As we can see, he was already rewriting history

when he sent off the letter.

[skyrider]

Hidden in plain sight.

Yep...

So according to Al......"Al taught us that death only overtakes a person when he gets tired and quits believing to live."

Gee, where does one begin to show this flawed doctrine? How about Stephen's death.....where the scriptures testify that he

was full of holy spirit, saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. Ummmm.....did "death overtake

him because he got TIRED and QUIT BELIEVING?

What about all the people noted in Hebrews 11....who withstood evil and obtained a good report through faith, that they might

testify of a better resurrection. Did they quit believing?

Well......mr. and mrs wierwille, you two got conned into teaching a false doctrine.

[excathedra]

The reason vpw was FORCED TO RESIGN involved (no surprise!) some rather inappropriate

behavior concerning a church secretary.

[skyrider]

Hidden in plain sight.

OldSkool.....the irony in Mrs. W's book gets even better.

The (occultist) Albert Cliffe is included in vpw's "fantastic men" club....which spawns the twi cornerstone of "the law of believing" and all of its tangents. The wierwilles didn't have a clue as to who Albert Cliffe really was....and, on page 93, the previous page before Cliffe is the infamous account in pfal of the fortune-teller at the Van Wert County Fair.

So, while the wierwilles pat themselves on the back for "shutting down the fortune-teller's tent".....they embrace and promote the teachings of an occultist. And further, how many twi followers will read Mrs. W's book and never see this?

Occult teachings in twi?

Who would have thunk it?

[waysider]

There were some good people, some good experiences, some good things that were taught. By and large, though, the whole thing was really a big sham.

[excathedra]

OldSkool.....the irony in Mrs. W's book gets even better.

The (occultist) Albert Cliffe is included in vpw's "fantastic men" club....which spawns the twi cornerstone of "the law of believing" and all of its tangents. The wierwilles didn't have a clue as to who Albert Cliffe really was....and, on page 93, the previous page before Cliffe is the infamous account in pfal of the fortune-teller at the Van Wert County Fair.

So, while the wierwilles pat themselves on the back for "shutting down the fortune-teller's tent".....they embrace and promote the teachings of an occultist.

that is kind of funny

--

sky, remember rb was young once

[skyrider]

sky, remember rb was young once

Yeah......just like we were