A little while ago, my nephew reminded me that becoming legalistic is the intermediary step between walking in the Spirit and hierarchical power structures, and legalism comes from forgetting grace, which comes from ignoring the things we have to be thankful for.
A thankful heart goes a long way to help one's spiritual walk.
Not thanks by rote (legalism) but real acknowledgment of God's blessing in one's life.
TWI had spiritual hierarchy upside down. They said, "The greatest leader is the greatest servant" but their actions were entirely opposite. Where is the hierarchy for servanthood? If the servant washing the feet of visitors was the lowest grade of servant (as TWI said), perhaps we should have expected VPW, LCM and RFR busily washing the shoes and the feet of Grounds crew? (Yeah, right.)
A thankful heart goes a long way to help one's spiritual walk.
Not thanks by rote (legalism) but real acknowledgment of God's blessing in one's life.
TWI had spiritual hierarchy upside down. They said, "The greatest leader is the greatest servant" but their actions were entirely opposite. Where is the hierarchy for servanthood? If the servant washing the feet of visitors was the lowest grade of servant (as TWI said), perhaps we should have expected VPW, LCM and RFR busily washing the shoes and the feet of Grounds crew? (Yeah, right.)
The guys who cleaned out the port-o-potties should have been seated at the head table with the microphones. Wierwille, et al., should have been unobtrusively making sure those guys' and gals' water glasses were full.
John, John and Mark of CES did servant-leadership for a little while, just before they got caught up in the Momentus debacle. During Momentus, they reverted to type.
Along with other WC, one of my RoA tasks was cleaning the porta-potties. And d'ya know what? I loved doing it. I loved making those things a place that visitors could feel comfortable and happy ("really blessed") about using. Dirty smelly loos ruin too many events.
The thought of being seated at head table for doing that, and of LCM or any of the other head honchos pouring water in my glass, is hilarious!!! :biglaugh:
Now you remind me, the reason WC had to clean the porta potties was "to keep them humble." Remind them that although they might be important "on the field," they needed to be reminded to stay humble.
Just another of those hierarchical Way things that apply to some and not to others. It wasn't the branch and limb coords who needed reminding of humility. It was the BoT.
Below is a link to an article I wrote on this subject. I wrote this in 1988 soon after leaving the Way Ministry and revised it in 2002. Lots of people have read this. Everyone that I know of that has read this has liked it and gotton a lot of spiritual truth out of it.
Thanks for posting that, Mark! I heartily recommend it to anyone, not just ex-wayfers.
There seems to be something going around in evangelical circles about how every Chritian should be under the authority of some other Christian. If anybody asks me, I'll ask in reply, "If we put ourselves under someone else's authority, aren't we making that other person our Lord? Can we serve two masters? Should we put ourselves under the authority of anybody other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself?
Seems like a lot of people are inclined to say and do things because those things sound pious, without really giving them any critical thought.
Are you familiar with the idea of "para-church ministries" and "denomonational cover"?
The people I've heard discussing "being under authority" have tended to be exclusive rather than inclusive Christians. That is, they tend to view people who don't belong to their particular denomination (or family of denominations) as not Christian. If you aren't under the authority of an approved denomination, such as an evangelical protestant one, then there is something highly suspect about your Christianity.
The way I view it, there is wheat and there are tares in every denomination that even only mouths the truths that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead. There are Christians who walk in the spirit, and Christians who have submitted to hierarchical control. It seems to me that the people I've heard discussing "being under authority" have used it in the sense that a person has to be under hierarchical control of their denomination, or they can't be good Christians.
I can't say I've studied the matter enough to make a definitive statement about what everybody means when they talk about "being under authority". The people I've heard belong to denominations that don't particularly appeal to me personally. The phrase smacks to me of a military chain of command rather than a group of accountability partners.
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
NIV
What Wordwolf recently wrote reminds me of the above scripture. Even prophets should be weighed to make sure that what they speak or write is the truth. And I looked up the Greek word that is used for "weighed" in the above scripture. I did this by examining the usages in the New Testament. This can also be translated judged and it is here in verse 29 in some other biblical versions. These judgements can sometimes be critical, but they should always be truthful and honest. The goal is so that the body of Christ can have and learn the pure and truthful word of God as our Lord Jesus and the holy spirit, which He gave, teaches us.
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Steve Lortz
A little while ago, my nephew reminded me that becoming legalistic is the intermediary step between walking in the Spirit and hierarchical power structures, and legalism comes from forgetting grace, which comes from ignoring the things we have to be thankful for.
Love,
Steve
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Twinky
A thankful heart goes a long way to help one's spiritual walk.
Not thanks by rote (legalism) but real acknowledgment of God's blessing in one's life.
TWI had spiritual hierarchy upside down. They said, "The greatest leader is the greatest servant" but their actions were entirely opposite. Where is the hierarchy for servanthood? If the servant washing the feet of visitors was the lowest grade of servant (as TWI said), perhaps we should have expected VPW, LCM and RFR busily washing the shoes and the feet of Grounds crew? (Yeah, right.)
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Steve Lortz
The guys who cleaned out the port-o-potties should have been seated at the head table with the microphones. Wierwille, et al., should have been unobtrusively making sure those guys' and gals' water glasses were full.
John, John and Mark of CES did servant-leadership for a little while, just before they got caught up in the Momentus debacle. During Momentus, they reverted to type.
Love,
Steve
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Twinky
Along with other WC, one of my RoA tasks was cleaning the porta-potties. And d'ya know what? I loved doing it. I loved making those things a place that visitors could feel comfortable and happy ("really blessed") about using. Dirty smelly loos ruin too many events.
The thought of being seated at head table for doing that, and of LCM or any of the other head honchos pouring water in my glass, is hilarious!!!
:biglaugh: 
Now you remind me, the reason WC had to clean the porta potties was "to keep them humble." Remind them that although they might be important "on the field," they needed to be reminded to stay humble.
Just another of those hierarchical Way things that apply to some and not to others. It wasn't the branch and limb coords who needed reminding of humility. It was the BoT.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Below is a link to an article I wrote on this subject. I wrote this in 1988 soon after leaving the Way Ministry and revised it in 2002. Lots of people have read this. Everyone that I know of that has read this has liked it and gotton a lot of spiritual truth out of it.
http://www.christianherald.info/lordship-of-jesus-christ-page-1.html
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Steve Lortz
Thanks for posting that, Mark! I heartily recommend it to anyone, not just ex-wayfers.
There seems to be something going around in evangelical circles about how every Chritian should be under the authority of some other Christian. If anybody asks me, I'll ask in reply, "If we put ourselves under someone else's authority, aren't we making that other person our Lord? Can we serve two masters? Should we put ourselves under the authority of anybody other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself?
Seems like a lot of people are inclined to say and do things because those things sound pious, without really giving them any critical thought.
Love,
Steve
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Mark Sanguinetti
Very good questions to ask people that you see are under an unbiblical and spiritually harmful ruling class. I hope we can help them. Thanks Steve.
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WordWolf
There's much to be said for ACCOUNTABILITY.
We should be able to show pride in our accomplishments, both in what we say and do.
Supposedly, Will Rogers said we should live our lives so we wouldn't be ashamed to
lend our family parrot to the town gossip.
Viewers of the Simpsons know Ned Flanders. When Bart was living at the Flanders home
for a time, he had a chance to learn all the day-to-day goings-on. His Dad then asked
him for all the juicy gossip. Bart was stuck for ANYTHING to say, and the best he had
was that Ned had some old paint cans in his garage.
ACCOUNTABILITY isn't the same thing as this sort of HEIRARCHY. However, the healthiest
part of religious organizations IS the accountability. vpw left his denomination because
he wanted to do whatever he wanted with no repercussions, and he CLAIMED that he spent his
entire first MONTH teaching on tithing when they supposedly told him he was free to teach
on anything EXCEPT MONEY. Supposedly, they called him to account on that, he mouthed off
at them, and then they left him alone. If there was ANY incident, I'm absolutely certain
vpw's role was greatly magnified, and their role was greatly reduced in the story. It's
just too silly. The idea IS that a new preacher needs to be watched, and all preachers
are ultimately accountable if they begin doing things considered inappropriate
(like lots of things vpw wanted to do.)
Between the opposite extremes of "everyone does what is right in their own eyes" and
"one obeys man rather than God" is a healthy balance where one's sense of right and wrong
is subject to review and discussion. That can feel confining to people who just want to
do whatever they wish- but that doesn't change that it's right.
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Steve Lortz
Thanks for the balance, WordWolf!
Are you familiar with the idea of "para-church ministries" and "denomonational cover"?
The people I've heard discussing "being under authority" have tended to be exclusive rather than inclusive Christians. That is, they tend to view people who don't belong to their particular denomination (or family of denominations) as not Christian. If you aren't under the authority of an approved denomination, such as an evangelical protestant one, then there is something highly suspect about your Christianity.
The way I view it, there is wheat and there are tares in every denomination that even only mouths the truths that Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead. There are Christians who walk in the spirit, and Christians who have submitted to hierarchical control. It seems to me that the people I've heard discussing "being under authority" have used it in the sense that a person has to be under hierarchical control of their denomination, or they can't be good Christians.
I can't say I've studied the matter enough to make a definitive statement about what everybody means when they talk about "being under authority". The people I've heard belong to denominations that don't particularly appeal to me personally. The phrase smacks to me of a military chain of command rather than a group of accountability partners.
Love,
Steve
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Mark Sanguinetti
1 Cor 14:29
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
NIV
What Wordwolf recently wrote reminds me of the above scripture. Even prophets should be weighed to make sure that what they speak or write is the truth. And I looked up the Greek word that is used for "weighed" in the above scripture. I did this by examining the usages in the New Testament. This can also be translated judged and it is here in verse 29 in some other biblical versions. These judgements can sometimes be critical, but they should always be truthful and honest. The goal is so that the body of Christ can have and learn the pure and truthful word of God as our Lord Jesus and the holy spirit, which He gave, teaches us.
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