More like modus operandi. In present TWI the way corps on the field are the ones to really catch the brunt of the systemic cheapness. For example, branch coordinators usually work full time and then run the branch on their own time, unless it's a really large branch. In most areas their limb coordinators will question every expense that is turned in on petty cash. There is always downward pressure to do things as cheap as possible, get people to volunteer to bring cups, etc. Turning in mileage is frowned upon by most field leadership. And of course the pat answer to justify this so called frugality is for the person footing the ministry's bill to consider it abundant sharing. Drive 300 round trip on ministry business miles while gas is 3.50 a gallon? Just consider it abundant sharing and God will bless you for it.
Never mind all of these people are shelling out more than %10 of their net income each pay period to the way international for the continued movement of God's Word!!! So what is the ABS actually used for? I know - that is the 52 million dollar question, now isn't it!
but still as a learned behavior (if it isn't a disease to begin with) it is fascinating to observe.
No, I'm not angry anymore.
But isn't it intriguing.. *they* have become what it was that they once fought against.. you know.. they once spouted the doctrine that things are supposed to be used, people loved.
That sure made a difference when they USED people to supply labor to save twenty or so bucks by not having to rent the larger of the two trucks..
it's more than that. I really think they regard anyone lower than themselves in a VOLUNTEER organization as scum..
especially so if they left the organization for what would be for legitimate reasons.
You are "scum".. you owe them everything.. they will settle on 15 percent of your income and twenty-five percent of your time, they owe you nothing.
I don't think it is human behavior and thought at it's worst, but it's getting close.
I think in the old days, they'd have "believers" constructing their houses, after making the bricks without straw..
This was one of the google ads at the bottom of this page a minute ago.
Maybe that would serve as the next "brc". The sowers group could put it up in a few weekends.. uncle howie is retired. maybe be could come and help, dressed out with hammer and nail pouch..
they could partition it off, and house old trucks and tractors in the back..
One year, I was home for Christmas break. I ran into a couple local guys who had just gone into WC3 or WC4 who were also on break. (I lose track of the numbers thing.) They were all excited about how they learned you could have more abundance if you used less toothpaste. I thought, WTF??? This is the "how to" of the abundant life?? I could have gotten better advice on how to be a cheapskate from my Grandparents, who discovered all sorts of tricks during The Great Depression. Red flags waving but I chose to ignore them.
we were following a bunch of numbnuts who were mentally "damaged" by the great depression..
I have a friend whose mother went through that bleak period in American history.
This person would hoard- everything. Shoes from rummage sales, clothes. Piles upon piles upon piles.. socks. plastic bags. Hosiery. towels.. two or three hundred? Can't have enough. Shoestrings. Fifteen pairs for each pair of shoes. envelopes.. never going to write a letter to put in them, but what the heck.. the list of items goes on and on and on.
why, and I can't figure out why.. no real desire to hoard fresh food. Maybe previous stench discouraged this..
I was on the delivery crew when we replaced a broken, impossible to repair clothes dryer.
It took THREE HOURS to maneuver around piles of JUNK before the task was accomplished..
VPW's funeral...I never heard anything about that. What did happen there, anyway? I thought it was a cremation with the ashes in or under the fountain?
As Ham points out., there is a difference in being cheap and stingy......reusing disposable cups and coffee grounds and being thrifty and frugal. Taking some time and a little effort to stretch the money I work hard for is a source of pride with me. Recently I have been approached about doing PSA's on the radio....money saving minutes. I will be sharing tips on how to stretch money to make everyday purchases.
A few years ago I found myself supporting two households......working too much more wasn't an option as I also found myself caretaker to a sick individual. I had to learn ways to stretch a dollar. I learned how to coupon and to take advantage of money saving programs at large chain stores like CVS, Walgreens, and Rite-Aid. . . . . Target. It is the best thing I could have done for my situation. I actually had more than I could ever use once I got the hang of it.
I no longer support two households, but I still use all the money saving tips I learned and I donate items such as food, diapers, formula, personal care items, and clothing. In some families toothpaste is actually a luxury item.
The difference now is that I do it because I like it and because I like to use my "talent" to help others. While in TWI, I was cheap because I was always broke by shoveling what income I did have into that organization. TWI's promotion of cheapness, seems to stem in part from a desire to control people and to squeeze them dry.
I don't see much wrong with stretching a dollar....we work for them, why not work a little more to get the most from them? I do see a problem with stretching them and denying self to give money to a group like TWI. I don't think it is right that they encourage people to live on the cheap so that they can gather ABS. TWI's ABS system seems to be some kind of spiritual usury or some strange indulgence racket.
If you are going to be frugal...do it for your benefit or the benefit of someone who needs it....God isn't broke, He doesn't need your cash to survive and TWI has plenty of money they manipulated from the backs of hard working people, many whom they have tossed aside. I can't think of a LESS noble and useless effort than throwing money away by giving it to TWI.
As Ham points out., there is a difference in being cheap and stingy......reusing disposable cups and coffee grounds and being thrifty and frugal. Taking some time and a little effort to stretch the money I work hard for is a source of pride with me. Recently I have been approached about doing PSA's on the radio....money saving minutes. I will be sharing tips on how to stretch money to make everyday purchases.
A few years ago I found myself supporting two households......working too much more wasn't an option as I also found myself caretaker to a sick individual. I had to learn ways to stretch a dollar. I learned how to coupon and to take advantage of money saving programs at large chain stores like CVS, Walgreens, and Rite-Aid. . . . . Target. It is the best thing I could have done for my situation. I actually had more than I could ever use once I got the hang of it.
I no longer support two households, but I still use all the money saving tips I learned and I donate items such as food, diapers, formula, personal care items, and clothing. In some families toothpaste is actually a luxury item.
The difference now is that I do it because I like it and because I like to use my "talent" to help others. While in TWI, I was cheap because I was always broke by shoveling what income I did have into that organization. TWI's promotion of cheapness, seems to stem in part from a desire to control people and to squeeze them dry.
I don't see much wrong with stretching a dollar....we work for them, why not work a little more to get the most from them? I do see a problem with stretching them and denying self to give money to a group like TWI. I don't think it is right that they encourage people to live on the cheap so that they can gather ABS. TWI's ABS system seems to be some kind of spiritual usury or some strange indulgence racket.
If you are going to be frugal...do it for your benefit or the benefit of someone who needs it....God isn't broke, He doesn't need your cash to survive and TWI has plenty of money they manipulated from the backs of hard working people, many whom they have tossed aside. I can't think of a LESS noble and useless effort than throwing money away by giving it to TWI.
VPW's funeral...I never heard anything about that. What did happen there, anyway? I thought it was a cremation with the ashes in or under the fountain?
I was on staff at the time and was there. I don't remember all the details but I do remember that it was simple. Several clergy carried the casket (plain wood as I recall, made by staff Wayfers but I forget who, specifically) across the "Asphalt Terrace" and down the driveway to the front lawn of the Wierwille home, where VPW was to be buried. Some people said a few words. I don't recall it being very long or full of the usual hoopla of Way events.
I don't remember all the details but I do remember that it was simple.
Mrs. Wierwille's service was the same. I was one of her pallbearers. From hearse at the BRC to her site next to Vic. I felt sorry for her, really. I was there when she fell and hurt herself outside the EOB. That was the last time I saw her on grounds. She went to the hospital and then to a nursing home where she died a little later.
She had become somewhat unmanageable and would slip off by herself at odd hours and was usually found a little later wandering around on grounds. With the Wierwille family not being able to separate themselves from TWI they had no choice but to put her in a home. Let me not stray too far off topic.
I was on staff at the time and was there. I don't remember all the details but I do remember that it was simple. Several clergy carried the casket (plain wood as I recall, made by staff Wayfers but I forget who, specifically) across the "Asphalt Terrace" and down the driveway to the front lawn of the Wierwille home, where VPW was to be buried. Some people said a few words. I don't recall it being very long or full of the usual hoopla of Way events.
When Ermal died in July 1980 (?)......the service was low key and respectful. The gravesite, in the Garden of Living Waters, was the east side of the fountain.....harry's was on the west side. From what I remember, even in death...and after vpw's death.....harry would be positioned to wierwille's right and ermal on the left. Wierwille's grave was elevated at the top spot of the fountain area. I guess 'spiritual protocol' mattered....even in death.
Ermal's grave was dug by hand.....no machinery involved. Out of respect, wierwille assigned Monty R@y H0bbs to have way builders and others take shifts in digging. I was the last person to dig.....and the last person out.
Ermal's grave was dug by hand.....no machinery involved.
I forgot about part. We dug Mrs. Wierwille's by hand too. Maintenance headed it up with support from some other departments. I dug my share. For some reason or other thought it was some kind of honor.
Yeah, I'm probably cheap in a lot of ways. I HATE that I can buy something and then be expected to toss out the perfectly good box, case or container it came in. It takes some thought, little changes in how I live.
I avoid packaging and bagging when I can but there's a lot you can't. I recycle but that's an industry built on wasteful practices to begin with IMO. I do it though, get some semblance of sanity out of the insanity of modern consumptive practices of which I'm a part. Self - Loathing is my middle name. But I have tools I've owned for 40 years in my shop, pliers I bought in 1973 come to mind, shoes I've worn for 10 years, fishing gear that's been in the water all over the country. I like keeping stuff I can take care of.
Deals is my name in dog years. Always looking for the scam that will out scam the scammers that scammed up the pricing structure. Less is more when it's what goes out of my bank account.
The type of business the Way is will always creates a budgetary environment where some are getting paid, some are getting the benefits, and some (most) aren't. Getting any.
If you work for them, you get a salary (or did at one time), you get certain benefits that go along with that, be they small or not. The income supports the effort that produces and maintains the products and services. The customer pays for them.
The Way never met a class it didn't charge for. There's always a donation. The Way teaches that their product - the "Word" - is priceless so don't bitch about paying a few bucks for it, for "materials" and the delivery system. Since you can't ever really pay what the "Word" is worth the fees and charges are considered miniscule by comparison. And any effort you yourself put towards it is a privilege so shuuuudup, get to work. And the real money has always come from demanding tithes and other cash $ be given to them, a gang that would make the Mafia look like cub scouts, as they don't even guarantee protection for your per centage, push comes to shove there aren't many "good fellas" in their camp.
Any reasonably thoughtful fool will see sooner or later that you either take that on face value and go with it or opt out. The Way offers no alternatives, so it is what it is. I know some people find a happy medium they're happy with, but from the Way's corporate stance they only function one way and that's the way they always have and if you don't like it, beat it. It really hasn't changed a lot.
The fact that the Way has assets of - what? 16 million, more? it's sitting on and still functions the way they do indicates they have a plan they're acting on - they're a tiny teeny company, a small organization and have no aggressive vision to expand their base operations. They're in maintenance mode.
As a result they will be "frugal" and what they do spend won't reflect a real interest in long term quality since the long term existence of the base operation can be kept with minimal spend. Sooner or later it will crap out though, it has to but I doubt anyone there really cares to plan ahead for that.
At the Way foam core will always work where wood and brick might be preferable. Build cases for the foam core to protect it, but don't build anything that will actually stand up and last for years to come.
The few exceptions - the auditorium for example, don't amount to much in the long run IMO. You could probably build twice the facility today for half of what it cost in $ and labor. Just a guess, never done the math but knowing what's being done today by other churches that would be my guesstimate, give or take.
Cheap? Hell yeah they're cheap. They've probably still got a Benjamin or two of mine sitting somewhere being fondled by a bean counter, even still today, keeping it warm.
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chockfull
To me lately it has been opposite of the Way Burn the Chaff. All those things they said to get rid of, I think are worth collecting. Childhood memories, old vinyl albums, family and time with
outandabout
We were to Burn the Chaff - get rid of any identity regarding our families, our interests, talents, individuality. Yet, the Wierwilles were all about Weirwille Weirwille.
OldSkool
More like modus operandi. In present TWI the way corps on the field are the ones to really catch the brunt of the systemic cheapness. For example, branch coordinators usually work full time and then r
Ham
maybe they caught it from *uncle howard*..
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OldSkool
More like modus operandi. In present TWI the way corps on the field are the ones to really catch the brunt of the systemic cheapness. For example, branch coordinators usually work full time and then run the branch on their own time, unless it's a really large branch. In most areas their limb coordinators will question every expense that is turned in on petty cash. There is always downward pressure to do things as cheap as possible, get people to volunteer to bring cups, etc. Turning in mileage is frowned upon by most field leadership. And of course the pat answer to justify this so called frugality is for the person footing the ministry's bill to consider it abundant sharing. Drive 300 round trip on ministry business miles while gas is 3.50 a gallon? Just consider it abundant sharing and God will bless you for it.
Never mind all of these people are shelling out more than %10 of their net income each pay period to the way international for the continued movement of God's Word!!! So what is the ABS actually used for? I know - that is the 52 million dollar question, now isn't it!
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Ham
True..
but still as a learned behavior (if it isn't a disease to begin with) it is fascinating to observe.
No, I'm not angry anymore.
But isn't it intriguing.. *they* have become what it was that they once fought against.. you know.. they once spouted the doctrine that things are supposed to be used, people loved.
That sure made a difference when they USED people to supply labor to save twenty or so bucks by not having to rent the larger of the two trucks..
it's more than that. I really think they regard anyone lower than themselves in a VOLUNTEER organization as scum..
especially so if they left the organization for what would be for legitimate reasons.
You are "scum".. you owe them everything.. they will settle on 15 percent of your income and twenty-five percent of your time, they owe you nothing.
I don't think it is human behavior and thought at it's worst, but it's getting close.
I think in the old days, they'd have "believers" constructing their houses, after making the bricks without straw..
might be something to reincarnation, who knows..
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Ham
This was one of the google ads at the bottom of this page a minute ago.
Maybe that would serve as the next "brc". The sowers group could put it up in a few weekends.. uncle howie is retired. maybe be could come and help, dressed out with hammer and nail pouch..
they could partition it off, and house old trucks and tractors in the back..
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OldSkool
Ha!! They put one of those up in Gunnison when I was in-rez. Of course it was a work project for the in-rez corpse.
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waysider
All this cheapness....from an organization that claimed to have cornered the market on the abundant life.
It goes beyond irony.
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Ham
Ironic, yes indeed..
Then there was (you really know he wasn't your) uncle harry's claim that he never tipped a waitress beyond ten percent of the bill..
What ever happened to the concept of love your neighbor, fair wages in return for appropriate labor?
the whole place there just reeks of cheapness..
and burials of old corpse in the vey woods..
even the funerals were on the cheap. Cremate the person, spread the ashes at the fire ring area or something.. such a "bargain".
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waysider
One year, I was home for Christmas break. I ran into a couple local guys who had just gone into WC3 or WC4 who were also on break. (I lose track of the numbers thing.) They were all excited about how they learned you could have more abundance if you used less toothpaste. I thought, WTF??? This is the "how to" of the abundant life?? I could have gotten better advice on how to be a cheapskate from my Grandparents, who discovered all sorts of tricks during The Great Depression. Red flags waving but I chose to ignore them.
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Ham
maybe that is it..
we were following a bunch of numbnuts who were mentally "damaged" by the great depression..
I have a friend whose mother went through that bleak period in American history.
This person would hoard- everything. Shoes from rummage sales, clothes. Piles upon piles upon piles.. socks. plastic bags. Hosiery. towels.. two or three hundred? Can't have enough. Shoestrings. Fifteen pairs for each pair of shoes. envelopes.. never going to write a letter to put in them, but what the heck.. the list of items goes on and on and on.
why, and I can't figure out why.. no real desire to hoard fresh food. Maybe previous stench discouraged this..
I was on the delivery crew when we replaced a broken, impossible to repair clothes dryer.
It took THREE HOURS to maneuver around piles of JUNK before the task was accomplished..
and this was a relatively large house.
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WordWolf
Don't excuse vpw and company with the Great Depression.
They spent lots of money when they wanted to. They just wanted EVERYONE ELSE
to live at a low standard.
The "Corps Chalet" was promised to the people who worked on it-they and their peers
would get to use it. But it turned out nice and was given to lcm to use, no apologies
given. vpw told people that CREMATION was a good way to be buried, then had arrangements
to have himself buried in a fancier style.
lcm learned to make sure he ate enough food in college if not sooner. (College students
learn that, and any football coach will make sure his team isn't starving if he has to
get on them to eat-as if that's ever an issue.) After a few years with vpw, lcm had
learned to be so cheap that he sent of twi worker bees without any CHANCE at breakfast.
(You're not getting anything out of ME that way-I need food or that's all I'm going to
think about UNTIL I get food.) vpw had to moderate his words and try to explain the
difference between "stingy" and "cheap"-as vpw saw it, one is good, the other is not.
vpw lived in as fancy a style as he could siphon off of twi at any time. He told OTHER
PEOPLE to do things, and when they weren't looking, he had a different standard for
HIMSELF.
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Twinky
VPW's funeral...I never heard anything about that. What did happen there, anyway? I thought it was a cremation with the ashes in or under the fountain?
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waysider
"He was a mean man.".....Mrs. VPW
(overheard at his memorial service)
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skyrider
The Corps Chalet was built on the concept of visiting corps graduates, while at hdqts, to spend quality time
with Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille in later years. The structure of the chalet had a wrap-around balcony to accommodate
40-60 people in a casual, comfortable setting and the 4 'corps-tels' were for overnight guests. Each of the 4
corps-tels had a different, interior wood...ie mahogany, red oak, etc. A loft in the chalet was available for
extra sleep-over corps far less privacy than the corps-tels. The kitchen was designed to serve groups of people
with greater ease and function. On corps nights, this project and its purpose was disclosed to the corps.....
and they anticipated, and worked, towards its completion.
For about three months, Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille lived in the Corps Chalet. The master bedroom was on the second
floor with other rooms and amenities. The first floor had another bedroom for live-in assistance. At the time,
a 7th corps couple were assigned as 'valets' to help the wierwilles. And, of course.....large stone fireplaces
and a very nice office tucked on the northside with bay-window view of the way woods. Additions were made years
later.....so others would have to speak of those. I believe the last time I was in the corps chalet was 1984.
After three months (1981)......wierwille was ready to move back to his home. Some reasons were given on a corps
night, but suffice it to say......the 'vision of the corps chalet' was quickly swept aside and martindale was
president-elect at the time. In one swift motion, wierwille designated that the martindales would move into the
corps chalet as he was the Corps Director, and all. Just like that....the 'corps chalet was gone' and became the
private home of the martindales.
With each passing year, few corps were ever invited to the corps chalet. It simply became off-limits and twi's
security patrols kept people from trespassing. Yes.....trespassing.
The corps chalet was added to the list of broken promises, broken dreams. <_<
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geisha779
As Ham points out., there is a difference in being cheap and stingy......reusing disposable cups and coffee grounds and being thrifty and frugal. Taking some time and a little effort to stretch the money I work hard for is a source of pride with me. Recently I have been approached about doing PSA's on the radio....money saving minutes. I will be sharing tips on how to stretch money to make everyday purchases.
A few years ago I found myself supporting two households......working too much more wasn't an option as I also found myself caretaker to a sick individual. I had to learn ways to stretch a dollar. I learned how to coupon and to take advantage of money saving programs at large chain stores like CVS, Walgreens, and Rite-Aid. . . . . Target. It is the best thing I could have done for my situation. I actually had more than I could ever use once I got the hang of it.
I no longer support two households, but I still use all the money saving tips I learned and I donate items such as food, diapers, formula, personal care items, and clothing. In some families toothpaste is actually a luxury item.
The difference now is that I do it because I like it and because I like to use my "talent" to help others. While in TWI, I was cheap because I was always broke by shoveling what income I did have into that organization. TWI's promotion of cheapness, seems to stem in part from a desire to control people and to squeeze them dry.
I don't see much wrong with stretching a dollar....we work for them, why not work a little more to get the most from them? I do see a problem with stretching them and denying self to give money to a group like TWI. I don't think it is right that they encourage people to live on the cheap so that they can gather ABS. TWI's ABS system seems to be some kind of spiritual usury or some strange indulgence racket.
If you are going to be frugal...do it for your benefit or the benefit of someone who needs it....God isn't broke, He doesn't need your cash to survive and TWI has plenty of money they manipulated from the backs of hard working people, many whom they have tossed aside. I can't think of a LESS noble and useless effort than throwing money away by giving it to TWI.
End of sermon!!
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outandabout
If TWI actually had any love of God in them, they would encourage people to live in abundance, not scrape by and give whatever they had left to TWI.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
we will now take up the offering
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Rejoice
I think any of us would have used much more colorful language than this! Talk about beaten down...
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Linda Z
I was on staff at the time and was there. I don't remember all the details but I do remember that it was simple. Several clergy carried the casket (plain wood as I recall, made by staff Wayfers but I forget who, specifically) across the "Asphalt Terrace" and down the driveway to the front lawn of the Wierwille home, where VPW was to be buried. Some people said a few words. I don't recall it being very long or full of the usual hoopla of Way events.
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OldSkool
Mrs. Wierwille's service was the same. I was one of her pallbearers. From hearse at the BRC to her site next to Vic. I felt sorry for her, really. I was there when she fell and hurt herself outside the EOB. That was the last time I saw her on grounds. She went to the hospital and then to a nursing home where she died a little later.
She had become somewhat unmanageable and would slip off by herself at odd hours and was usually found a little later wandering around on grounds. With the Wierwille family not being able to separate themselves from TWI they had no choice but to put her in a home. Let me not stray too far off topic.
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skyrider
When Ermal died in July 1980 (?)......the service was low key and respectful. The gravesite, in the Garden of Living Waters, was the east side of the fountain.....harry's was on the west side. From what I remember, even in death...and after vpw's death.....harry would be positioned to wierwille's right and ermal on the left. Wierwille's grave was elevated at the top spot of the fountain area. I guess 'spiritual protocol' mattered....even in death.
Ermal's grave was dug by hand.....no machinery involved. Out of respect, wierwille assigned Monty R@y H0bbs to have way builders and others take shifts in digging. I was the last person to dig.....and the last person out.
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OldSkool
I forgot about part. We dug Mrs. Wierwille's by hand too. Maintenance headed it up with support from some other departments. I dug my share. For some reason or other thought it was some kind of honor.
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skyrider
OldSkool.....was Mrs. buried next to vp?
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OldSkool
Sure was.
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socks
Yeah, I'm probably cheap in a lot of ways. I HATE that I can buy something and then be expected to toss out the perfectly good box, case or container it came in. It takes some thought, little changes in how I live.
I avoid packaging and bagging when I can but there's a lot you can't. I recycle but that's an industry built on wasteful practices to begin with IMO. I do it though, get some semblance of sanity out of the insanity of modern consumptive practices of which I'm a part. Self - Loathing is my middle name.
But I have tools I've owned for 40 years in my shop, pliers I bought in 1973 come to mind, shoes I've worn for 10 years, fishing gear that's been in the water all over the country. I like keeping stuff I can take care of.
Deals is my name in dog years. Always looking for the scam that will out scam the scammers that scammed up the pricing structure. Less is more when it's what goes out of my bank account.
The type of business the Way is will always creates a budgetary environment where some are getting paid, some are getting the benefits, and some (most) aren't. Getting any.
If you work for them, you get a salary (or did at one time), you get certain benefits that go along with that, be they small or not. The income supports the effort that produces and maintains the products and services. The customer pays for them.
The Way never met a class it didn't charge for. There's always a donation. The Way teaches that their product - the "Word" - is priceless so don't bitch about paying a few bucks for it, for "materials" and the delivery system. Since you can't ever really pay what the "Word" is worth the fees and charges are considered miniscule by comparison. And any effort you yourself put towards it is a privilege so shuuuudup, get to work. And the real money has always come from demanding tithes and other cash $ be given to them, a gang that would make the Mafia look like cub scouts, as they don't even guarantee protection for your per centage, push comes to shove there aren't many "good fellas" in their camp.
Any reasonably thoughtful fool will see sooner or later that you either take that on face value and go with it or opt out. The Way offers no alternatives, so it is what it is. I know some people find a happy medium they're happy with, but from the Way's corporate stance they only function one way and that's the way they always have and if you don't like it, beat it. It really hasn't changed a lot.
The fact that the Way has assets of - what? 16 million, more? it's sitting on and still functions the way they do indicates they have a plan they're acting on - they're a tiny teeny company, a small organization and have no aggressive vision to expand their base operations. They're in maintenance mode.
As a result they will be "frugal" and what they do spend won't reflect a real interest in long term quality since the long term existence of the base operation can be kept with minimal spend. Sooner or later it will crap out though, it has to but I doubt anyone there really cares to plan ahead for that.
At the Way foam core will always work where wood and brick might be preferable. Build cases for the foam core to protect it, but don't build anything that will actually stand up and last for years to come.
The few exceptions - the auditorium for example, don't amount to much in the long run IMO. You could probably build twice the facility today for half of what it cost in $ and labor. Just a guess, never done the math but knowing what's being done today by other churches that would be my guesstimate, give or take.
Cheap? Hell yeah they're cheap.
They've probably still got a Benjamin or two of mine sitting somewhere being fondled by a bean counter, even still today, keeping it warm. 
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