Twi was (is) stuck on reruns....DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
My friend, modern day way international's leadership mantra is .... drumroll please.... "What did we do last year."
I heard this so many times and at all levels of the leadership tree, even from Rosie herself. The problem is systemic. That stagnant little cornfield cult is run almost entirely by institutional memory and of course so many references to what "Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille's heart was for ....insert issue here...."
As for kids...if it weren't for followers raising their kids in the way int's. indoctrination there would be hardly ANYONE at the advanced class or going way disciple, and quite a few less (if that were possible) going into the way corps. Most of the kids at the advanced class go because they have to and it's a great place to meet other ministry kids. Families use way disciple as a boot camp to get their teenagers out of the house and on their own and add yet another layer of indoctrination to their kids upcoming life in cultdom.
And let me tell you, most, if not all of the kids that go into the way corps hang on to the deluded hope that they will be able to change things once their time comes because they REALLY hate the way things are done. Religious and stiff are descriptors I heard from young people over and over again when describing the current state of things in the way international. I feel sorry for them really. I shared the same hopes and found out the hard way that the way international has always been corrupt and the people who try to change it for the better will have their dreams smashed on the rocks by many pounding waves of corruption inherent in the way international. That which is crooked cannot be made straight. There is no escaping Wierwille's sordid past. Sameness is enshrined in policy, handbooks, guidelines, layers of corporate rule, and enforced by leadership at all levels at all times.
Life does NOT stand still for any of us. / life is not lived in an isolated commune of halleluahs.
I totally agree. I spent 18 years in twi. This October will mark 18 years since leaving. The first year was really good. New friends, new belief system, peace with God, all that stuff. But I still had all my old friends, too. Drug friends. Distractions. So I went wow, staying in the state I was sent to for a total of 8 years.
Looking back, those 8 years were good. I was single. All I had to do was make enough money to contribute to the family fund. Got away from my drug friends. Got an arm's length distance from my family. Summary and conclusion? I got SPACE to sort stuff out. Sure, my whole life was twi, but that was my choice. TWI was NOT so invasive that I couldn't sort stuff out.
I wasn't a total twi robot; I went to college during those years. I ran a twig for 3 years too. Those 8 years were like pushing the pause button on my life, living in a much needed greenhouse, then resuming my life by moving back to MI where I got in the word. After moving back there now twi became more of an arm's length relationship. Got promoted to management at my job, got married, 3 kids, plus my mother's health was in decline and I had to make sure she was OK while she lived. twi became more and more on the back burner.
I agree also that twi displayed very BAD stewardship of people by trying to guilt and coerce them to make committments they had neither heart nor time to give. During my 8 years in MO I saw very little of this, not enough to be disturbing, but if I have a wife and 3 kids and 2 of the 3 are special ed and they say my wife isn't spiritual enough to be in "God's elite household"....WTF? Wasn't a hard choice to leave.
I suspect the military is also guilty of coercing people into becoming "lifers". People who want to have lives. People who really don't want to be military robots all their lives. Some bosses at jobs are like that, too. You think that going on salary is a sign of success, but once they put you on salary they think they own you. Then they make you work like you're a piece of meat. Not all jobs are like that, but I know SOME are. Again, bad stewardship of people. This is among the "all evil" the love of money is the root of, IMO.
If twi would have just let people live and trusted God to supply them with willing hearts for service, like many of us had at one time, then twi'd probably still have the numbers they had 30 years ago.
If twi would have just let people live and trusted God to supply them with willing hearts for service, like many of us had at one time, then twi'd probably still have the numbers they had 30 years ago.
That, and if leadership could have kept it in their pants. ;)
johniam.....as mentioned in my opening paragraph, "Anyone who worked at twi hq a few years can certainly relate to the repetitive nature and monotony of same old, same old.....imo"...Groundhog Day was HQ-centered.
Anyways, I'd like to address what you said below:
I totally agree. I spent 18 years in twi. This October will mark 18 years since leaving. The first year was really good. New friends, new belief system, peace with God, all that stuff. But I still had all my old friends, too. Drug friends. Distractions. So I went wow, staying in the state I was sent to for a total of 8 years.
Looking back, those 8 years were good. I was single. All I had to do was make enough money to contribute to the family fund. Got away from my drug friends. Got an arm's length distance from my family. Summary and conclusion? I got SPACE to sort stuff out.
My first wow year.....2 wow families were sent to northside Syracuse, NY and 2 wow families settled in the westside
of Syracuse, NY. Twi had instructed that each 2 families to work in tandem....helping and witnessing together. One
girl in my wow family could not keep regular work, nor could she handle money. Always broke, always whining, always
begging......yet she was allowed to stay the whole year.
In the other northside family, another girl had real, deep issues.....she had health problems and skin rash. Night
after night, she would unconsciously scratch herself to the point of bleeding and raw skin. It took nearly three
months before twi was satisfied that we'd done 'our best' to help her and she was sent home. We kept plugging away
and had a decent year......but struggled financially with less giving to a family fund and other problems. So no...
twi did NOT provide "space to sort stuff out."
Quite the contrary! Why didn't twi send the big-dogs in and help us? It was THEIR outreach program, wasn't it? They
allowed her to go.....yet, we had to 'believe' to undo THEIR miserable oversight.
At the time, I took it in stride.....but looking back, I see the manipulation and guilt twi dished out.
I got SPACE to sort stuff out. Sure, my whole life was twi, but that was my choice. TWI was NOT so invasive that I couldn't sort stuff out.
Experiences on the field are unique to your direct field leadership. I have been in numerous states. Was way disciple, fellowship coordinator, candidate way corps, and good ole' advanced class grad helping build my area. Basically, if your leadership can shield you from headquarters/way of the usa then you may have an alright time. This was my experience in one of the state I lived in. I loved my branch and limb guy but it turns out my region coordinator at the time T0m and B@rbara L@lly were absolute monsters who got off on putting people through all kinds of h3ll. I was oblivious to this until my section coordinator at HQ (a couple years later) told me the h3ll he and several other people endured on account of them.
It only means you had some space while a lot of others did not. You managed to stay in the cracks.
If twi would have just let people live and trusted God to supply them with willing hearts for service, like many of us had at one time, then twi'd probably still have the numbers they had 30 years ago.
Let's pretend they leave people alone, they never have or will, buts let's just pretend a minute. Leaving people alone would not atone for the sins of the sexual predators who used to run the place (Wierwille / Martindale) nor would it atone for the evil little blue hair running the place now, who has made it her life's crowning achievement to endeavor to sweep outright corruption and scandal under the rug. You do know that the way international was facing R.I.C.O charges in the Allen lawsuit? Further more, leaving people alone would never, ever account for all the lives that were ruined nor all the broken families left behind in the wake of Wierwille's and Martindale's motor coach affairs (and other places as well like the wierwille home basement and cabin 12 at gunnison.)
Also, leaving people alone would not account for all the error they teach. Law of believing, the word takes the place of the absent Christ, speaking in tongues makes an already perfect and complete gift of holy spirit stronger, etc, etc.
But, once again, here we are ---- I have blathered enough.
Ever notice that MANY of twi's staffers are single?
Ever notice that MANY upper leaders never had kids?
Ever notice that MANY of twi's mandates exclude life changes?
And to address these points. I have noticed all three. From my experiences with people on staff that are in these categories - Many of the single staffers are bound by the marry only way corps policy, that is still in effect. I think a lot of advanced class grads used to go on staff in hopes of meeting people. And a lot of people just wind up staying single because they can't find someone that is an advanced class grad and matches what they want. So they wind up putting the ministry first and staying single. Crazy if you ask me, but hey, if they are happy more power to them.
Kids are an interesting subject. Since the Allen lawsuit TWI has dropped their no pregnancy policy and around 9 months after they did HQ was flooded with new borns. I mean it was CRAZY! Some of the way corps in TWI prefer not to have kids because they can give more to the ministry with no kids. A lot of upper level leaders are in this category, while some just can't have kids for one reason or another.
The way international's mandates are contrary to life changes and are designed to control people so the directors are not distracted from pushing papers around or meeting with their lawyers, etc. This is especially true with programs such as way corps and way disciple. You also see the same sort of crap with the staff handbook. Life's changes in a very controlled environment disrupt the program, thus the mandates.
I don't personally believe it was ever really about "moving the word". Instead, I think it was about getting people to take the PFAL class (short term profit) with a view toward getting them to become regular ABS contributors (long term profit).
Experiences on the field are unique to your direct field leadership. I have been in numerous states. Was way disciple, fellowship coordinator, candidate way corps, and good ole' advanced class grad helping build my area. Basically, if your leadership can shield you from headquarters/way of the usa then you may have an alright time.
OldSkool.......I can't tell you how many times I've heard this....
..."Local leadership trying to SHIELD others from headquarters"
I was referring to the entire 8 years, not just my wow year. I don't know...you make twi sound so continuously oppressive, but that wasn't my experience. Every year I went to the ROA and saw believers from other places and never had the feeling there was anything seriously wrong. Just other people blessed to be believers, like me. My wow year had some blooper reels in it too. One of the girls banged some guy in a park; didn't know she was being seen by several people. Whoops. She was finally sent packing 2 months before the ROA. Me and my wow brother smoked dope from time to time too. But after the wow year, routine twi life was pretty tame.
Something occurs to me. It's a lot easier to control people if they can't communicate with each other. The first time large numbers of people attempted to communicate with each other outside of the way tree structure was after the pop was read. People knew they weren't getting the truth from HQ. This hadn't happened before. Back then there was no internet, just ma bell. HQ thought they could sweep it under the rug. In my area they had a meeting with the limb leader. Only AC grads allowed. The tone of the meeting was divisive. Several people who weren't in charge got really opinionated. It was chaos. Turned out to be the tip of the iceberg. For the first time it was unclear who was really in charge, not just in my area, at HQ as well.
My wife worked in a chinese restaurant off and on for 12 years. The owners of the restaurant are Cantonese and do not speak Mandarin. Every so often someone would come into the place who only spoke Mandarin. Someone in the kitchen would have to come out and translate. There are several other chinese languages. I imagine it is easier for the Chinese govt to control all those people if large numbers of them can't communicate with each other. In the USA all the English we speak is written the same everywhere. But in twi nobody had any inclination to seriously question the motives at HQ until 1986. Well, not LARGE numbers. This DOES make for some interesting discussion.
I was referring to the entire 8 years, not just my wow year. I don't know...you make twi sound so continuously oppressive...
johniam......the intent of my postings are to direct attention to the SOURCE OF OPPRESSION.
Yeah, when I was far away from twi-headquarters.......life was ALWAYS better. I have lots of fun and fond memories of good times, exciting thrills, tender moments, God-at-work wonders, etc. I've stated this several times before. But....I come to GreaseSpot to give the other side of twi and the manipulation & deception & exploitation.
johniam......were you ever in the corps program?
johniam......were you ever on staff at hq?
If the answer to those TWO QUESTIONS is "no"..........then, how can you possibly know the inner-workings of twi? One of the MAJOR REASONS why the apostle Paul was so effective in dismantling the Pharisee oppression was, at one time, Paul was in this hierarchy of leadership. He saw it firsthand. He witnessed it. And, in God's mercy........Paul got away from the Pharisee doctrine.
If the answer to those TWO QUESTIONS is "no"..........then, how can you possibly know the inner-workings of twi? One of the MAJOR REASONS why the apostle Paul was so effective in dismantling the Pharisee oppression was, at one time, Paul was in this hierarchy of leadership. He saw it firsthand. He witnessed it. And, in God's mercy........Paul got away from the Pharisee doctrine.
The premise of this thread "Groundhog Day at The Way".....
....has NOTHING to do with everyday, on-the-field aspects of twi's followers.
The deep, oppressive inner-workings at twi's headquarters (and past accounts of corps campuses) expose their deception. Trying to understand how twi kept spiraling downward.....with Region and Limb coordinators using heavy-handed tactics on the field......is NOT going to be fully understood without deeper analysis. The source of this oppression came from WIERWILLE.
Fast-forward some 30 years later........and "life at The Way" (headquarters) is micro-managed by Rosalie.
Condoning the "twi experience" only facilitates and hides the exploitation.
Move over squirrel.......the groundhog gets his due next Thursday.
Groundhog Day is a holiday celebrated on February 2 in the United States and Canada. According to folklore, if it is cloudy when a groundhog emerges from its burrow on this day, it will leave the burrow, signifying that winter-like weather will soon end. If it is sunny, the groundhog will supposedly see its shadow and retreat back into its burrow, and the winter weather will continue for six more weeks
Well......Lookie, Lookie here.
[Drum rooooooooolllll].......It a twisted world of fate, TWI moved its operation on THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 1961
to headquarters on a very blustery, frigid winter day. [Mrs. W's book --- p.264]
I totally agree. I spent 18 years in twi. This October will mark 18 years since leaving. The first year was really good. New friends, new belief system, peace with God, all that stuff. But I still had all my old friends, too. Drug friends. Distractions. So I went wow, staying in the state I was sent to for a total of 8 years.
Looking back, those 8 years were good. I was single. All I had to do was make enough money to contribute to the family fund. Got away from my drug friends. Got an arm's length distance from my family. Summary and conclusion? I got SPACE to sort stuff out. Sure, my whole life was twi, but that was my choice.
johniam......an old post by satori summarizes and concludes an interesting perspective:
"Here are some things that occurred to me reading your post...
There were lots of good times at TWI. Friendships, adventures, great memories, some "learning," for better or worse. And there was the bad.
For some, the "baby" was the experience of living through TWI's experience for a time. We may wish to turn our backs on that part of our lives, but it's better that we embrace and understand what happened - denying neither the good, nor the bad.
For others, the "baby" is the ministry itself, the corrupt source of it all, the twisted teachings, the flawed leadership, the bureaucracy and social caste system, and Vic Wierwille who was always corrupt, along with his henchpeople who either were or became bad to join the (evil) enterprise. Some may not have clearly seen the corruption, flaws, etc., which is why they want to "save the baby" so badly.
Either perspective is accessible to everyone, though we often fail to define them, or to recognize them, in context. This causes some unnecessary confusion, I think.
oldiesman loved the experience, so much so, he forgives the enterprise. He reminds me of the assassin in the DaVinci code. It's as if the ministry gave his life virtually all of its meaning. TWI = his redemption. Where else can he go?
Others believe the corrupted root eventually corrupted the fruit, and differentiate between the quality of their initial experience and the integrity of the enterprise. Those found the experience worthwhile enough to stay until they were harmed by the enterprise, which changed their experience from good to bad.
When the experience went sour, some discovered the evil nature of Wierwille's enterprise. This sometimes tainted everything that came before it, depending upon the individual. Others blamed themselves, often because they were blamed by others, or they remain confused."
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OldSkool
My friend, modern day way international's leadership mantra is .... drumroll please.... "What did we do last year."
I heard this so many times and at all levels of the leadership tree, even from Rosie herself. The problem is systemic. That stagnant little cornfield cult is run almost entirely by institutional memory and of course so many references to what "Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille's heart was for ....insert issue here...."
As for kids...if it weren't for followers raising their kids in the way int's. indoctrination there would be hardly ANYONE at the advanced class or going way disciple, and quite a few less (if that were possible) going into the way corps. Most of the kids at the advanced class go because they have to and it's a great place to meet other ministry kids. Families use way disciple as a boot camp to get their teenagers out of the house and on their own and add yet another layer of indoctrination to their kids upcoming life in cultdom.
And let me tell you, most, if not all of the kids that go into the way corps hang on to the deluded hope that they will be able to change things once their time comes because they REALLY hate the way things are done. Religious and stiff are descriptors I heard from young people over and over again when describing the current state of things in the way international. I feel sorry for them really. I shared the same hopes and found out the hard way that the way international has always been corrupt and the people who try to change it for the better will have their dreams smashed on the rocks by many pounding waves of corruption inherent in the way international. That which is crooked cannot be made straight. There is no escaping Wierwille's sordid past. Sameness is enshrined in policy, handbooks, guidelines, layers of corporate rule, and enforced by leadership at all levels at all times.
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johniam
quote:
Life does NOT stand still for any of us. / life is not lived in an isolated commune of halleluahs.
I totally agree. I spent 18 years in twi. This October will mark 18 years since leaving. The first year was really good. New friends, new belief system, peace with God, all that stuff. But I still had all my old friends, too. Drug friends. Distractions. So I went wow, staying in the state I was sent to for a total of 8 years.
Looking back, those 8 years were good. I was single. All I had to do was make enough money to contribute to the family fund. Got away from my drug friends. Got an arm's length distance from my family. Summary and conclusion? I got SPACE to sort stuff out. Sure, my whole life was twi, but that was my choice. TWI was NOT so invasive that I couldn't sort stuff out.
I wasn't a total twi robot; I went to college during those years. I ran a twig for 3 years too. Those 8 years were like pushing the pause button on my life, living in a much needed greenhouse, then resuming my life by moving back to MI where I got in the word. After moving back there now twi became more of an arm's length relationship. Got promoted to management at my job, got married, 3 kids, plus my mother's health was in decline and I had to make sure she was OK while she lived. twi became more and more on the back burner.
I agree also that twi displayed very BAD stewardship of people by trying to guilt and coerce them to make committments they had neither heart nor time to give. During my 8 years in MO I saw very little of this, not enough to be disturbing, but if I have a wife and 3 kids and 2 of the 3 are special ed and they say my wife isn't spiritual enough to be in "God's elite household"....WTF? Wasn't a hard choice to leave.
I suspect the military is also guilty of coercing people into becoming "lifers". People who want to have lives. People who really don't want to be military robots all their lives. Some bosses at jobs are like that, too. You think that going on salary is a sign of success, but once they put you on salary they think they own you. Then they make you work like you're a piece of meat. Not all jobs are like that, but I know SOME are. Again, bad stewardship of people. This is among the "all evil" the love of money is the root of, IMO.
If twi would have just let people live and trusted God to supply them with willing hearts for service, like many of us had at one time, then twi'd probably still have the numbers they had 30 years ago.
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JavaJane
That, and if leadership could have kept it in their pants. ;)
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skyrider
johniam.....as mentioned in my opening paragraph, "Anyone who worked at twi hq a few years can certainly relate to the repetitive nature and monotony of same old, same old.....imo"...Groundhog Day was HQ-centered.
Anyways, I'd like to address what you said below:
My first wow year.....2 wow families were sent to northside Syracuse, NY and 2 wow families settled in the westside
of Syracuse, NY. Twi had instructed that each 2 families to work in tandem....helping and witnessing together. One
girl in my wow family could not keep regular work, nor could she handle money. Always broke, always whining, always
begging......yet she was allowed to stay the whole year.
In the other northside family, another girl had real, deep issues.....she had health problems and skin rash. Night
after night, she would unconsciously scratch herself to the point of bleeding and raw skin. It took nearly three
months before twi was satisfied that we'd done 'our best' to help her and she was sent home. We kept plugging away
and had a decent year......but struggled financially with less giving to a family fund and other problems. So no...
twi did NOT provide "space to sort stuff out."
Quite the contrary! Why didn't twi send the big-dogs in and help us? It was THEIR outreach program, wasn't it? They
allowed her to go.....yet, we had to 'believe' to undo THEIR miserable oversight.
At the time, I took it in stride.....but looking back, I see the manipulation and guilt twi dished out.
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OldSkool
Experiences on the field are unique to your direct field leadership. I have been in numerous states. Was way disciple, fellowship coordinator, candidate way corps, and good ole' advanced class grad helping build my area. Basically, if your leadership can shield you from headquarters/way of the usa then you may have an alright time. This was my experience in one of the state I lived in. I loved my branch and limb guy but it turns out my region coordinator at the time T0m and B@rbara L@lly were absolute monsters who got off on putting people through all kinds of h3ll. I was oblivious to this until my section coordinator at HQ (a couple years later) told me the h3ll he and several other people endured on account of them.
It only means you had some space while a lot of others did not. You managed to stay in the cracks.
Let's pretend they leave people alone, they never have or will, buts let's just pretend a minute. Leaving people alone would not atone for the sins of the sexual predators who used to run the place (Wierwille / Martindale) nor would it atone for the evil little blue hair running the place now, who has made it her life's crowning achievement to endeavor to sweep outright corruption and scandal under the rug. You do know that the way international was facing R.I.C.O charges in the Allen lawsuit? Further more, leaving people alone would never, ever account for all the lives that were ruined nor all the broken families left behind in the wake of Wierwille's and Martindale's motor coach affairs (and other places as well like the wierwille home basement and cabin 12 at gunnison.)
Also, leaving people alone would not account for all the error they teach. Law of believing, the word takes the place of the absent Christ, speaking in tongues makes an already perfect and complete gift of holy spirit stronger, etc, etc.
But, once again, here we are
---- I have blathered enough.
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OldSkool
And to address these points. I have noticed all three. From my experiences with people on staff that are in these categories - Many of the single staffers are bound by the marry only way corps policy, that is still in effect. I think a lot of advanced class grads used to go on staff in hopes of meeting people. And a lot of people just wind up staying single because they can't find someone that is an advanced class grad and matches what they want. So they wind up putting the ministry first and staying single. Crazy if you ask me, but hey, if they are happy more power to them.
Kids are an interesting subject. Since the Allen lawsuit TWI has dropped their no pregnancy policy and around 9 months after they did HQ was flooded with new borns. I mean it was CRAZY! Some of the way corps in TWI prefer not to have kids because they can give more to the ministry with no kids. A lot of upper level leaders are in this category, while some just can't have kids for one reason or another.
The way international's mandates are contrary to life changes and are designed to control people so the directors are not distracted from pushing papers around or meeting with their lawyers, etc. This is especially true with programs such as way corps and way disciple. You also see the same sort of crap with the staff handbook. Life's changes in a very controlled environment disrupt the program, thus the mandates.
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waysider
I don't personally believe it was ever really about "moving the word". Instead, I think it was about getting people to take the PFAL class (short term profit) with a view toward getting them to become regular ABS contributors (long term profit).
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skyrider
OldSkool.......I can't tell you how many times I've heard this....
..."Local leadership trying to SHIELD others from headquarters"
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OldSkool
Speaks volumes regarding how rotten headquarters really is.
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Ham
Why bring the Groundhog into all of this?
well.. February the second is a National Holiday, you know.
It's almost the time I post something with a count down to the great event.
After all.. a Marmot living in a furnished, well heated burrow, makes far more sense than twi, any day..
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Ham
I know, I know..
the Marmot will emerge from his well heated, secluded burrow, and pronounce yet another decade of winter over New Knoxville..
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johniam
quote: So no...
twi did NOT provide "space to sort stuff out."
I was referring to the entire 8 years, not just my wow year. I don't know...you make twi sound so continuously oppressive, but that wasn't my experience. Every year I went to the ROA and saw believers from other places and never had the feeling there was anything seriously wrong. Just other people blessed to be believers, like me. My wow year had some blooper reels in it too. One of the girls banged some guy in a park; didn't know she was being seen by several people. Whoops. She was finally sent packing 2 months before the ROA. Me and my wow brother smoked dope from time to time too. But after the wow year, routine twi life was pretty tame.
Something occurs to me. It's a lot easier to control people if they can't communicate with each other. The first time large numbers of people attempted to communicate with each other outside of the way tree structure was after the pop was read. People knew they weren't getting the truth from HQ. This hadn't happened before. Back then there was no internet, just ma bell. HQ thought they could sweep it under the rug. In my area they had a meeting with the limb leader. Only AC grads allowed. The tone of the meeting was divisive. Several people who weren't in charge got really opinionated. It was chaos. Turned out to be the tip of the iceberg. For the first time it was unclear who was really in charge, not just in my area, at HQ as well.
My wife worked in a chinese restaurant off and on for 12 years. The owners of the restaurant are Cantonese and do not speak Mandarin. Every so often someone would come into the place who only spoke Mandarin. Someone in the kitchen would have to come out and translate. There are several other chinese languages. I imagine it is easier for the Chinese govt to control all those people if large numbers of them can't communicate with each other. In the USA all the English we speak is written the same everywhere. But in twi nobody had any inclination to seriously question the motives at HQ until 1986. Well, not LARGE numbers. This DOES make for some interesting discussion.
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skyrider
johniam......the intent of my postings are to direct attention to the SOURCE OF OPPRESSION.
Yeah, when I was far away from twi-headquarters.......life was ALWAYS better. I have lots of fun and fond memories of good times, exciting thrills, tender moments, God-at-work wonders, etc. I've stated this several times before. But....I come to GreaseSpot to give the other side of twi and the manipulation & deception & exploitation.
johniam......were you ever in the corps program?
johniam......were you ever on staff at hq?
If the answer to those TWO QUESTIONS is "no"..........then, how can you possibly know the inner-workings of twi? One of the MAJOR REASONS why the apostle Paul was so effective in dismantling the Pharisee oppression was, at one time, Paul was in this hierarchy of leadership. He saw it firsthand. He witnessed it. And, in God's mercy........Paul got away from the Pharisee doctrine.
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skyrider
The premise of this thread "Groundhog Day at The Way".....
....has NOTHING to do with everyday, on-the-field aspects of twi's followers.
The deep, oppressive inner-workings at twi's headquarters (and past accounts of corps campuses) expose their deception. Trying to understand how twi kept spiraling downward.....with Region and Limb coordinators using heavy-handed tactics on the field......is NOT going to be fully understood without deeper analysis. The source of this oppression came from WIERWILLE.
Fast-forward some 30 years later........and "life at The Way" (headquarters) is micro-managed by Rosalie.
Condoning the "twi experience" only facilitates and hides the exploitation.
.
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OldSkool
Then start another thread and quit taking this one
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Ham
I know, I know! It's groundhog day at da way. rosie emerges, or maybe even is cattle prodded to help her rise from her heated burrow..
her handler has her (?) in a firm grasp..
she speaks in a bastardized mix between groundhogese and wayspeak..
the guy with the big hat listens carefully, and interprets:
"yah, eeet will be anoder decade of prevailing somehow in da word.."
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waysider
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skyrider
Move over squirrel.......the groundhog gets his due next Thursday.
Groundhog Day is a holiday celebrated on February 2 in the United States and Canada. According to folklore, if it is cloudy when a groundhog emerges from its burrow on this day, it will leave the burrow, signifying that winter-like weather will soon end. If it is sunny, the groundhog will supposedly see its shadow and retreat back into its burrow, and the winter weather will continue for six more weeks
Well......Lookie, Lookie here.
[Drum rooooooooolllll].......It a twisted world of fate, TWI moved its operation on THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 1961
to headquarters on a very blustery, frigid winter day. [Mrs. W's book --- p.264]
Punxsutawney Phil rules!......next Thursday!
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waysider
Legend has it that if the groundhog sees snow on the gas pumps, he shall be declared MOG.
(Most Omnipotent Groundhog)
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skyrider
No, no, no........the SIGNIFICANCE of seeing "snow on the gas pumps" was for wierwille to get moving
and gas up the vehicles and move on a wintery day to headquarters.
The timing of the revelation and the moving day coincided with February 2nd -- Groundhog Day...
....giving further evidence that humans are manipulated so easily by clouds and shadows
....and further, that all could be exploited in a repetitive fashion day after day, year after year.
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Ham
It's a pretty damned big *if*.
*seeing* is subjective, you know..
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Ham
Dammit, I just love groundhog day..
where do we go from here..
I've found a few places along the way..
one of them is even willing to pay bonifide, true American dollars..
Chirst. at least at the moment.. one can find some (inconsequential) payment for working at, or doing.. (gasp).. what one really ENJOYS.. heh.
another year and a half, and they will have computers doing (what they think) is the same thing I do..
what do we or I do then..
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Ham
GodDam administrators..
well,you know.
somebody can write a program. Maybe even that is me.. a program to figure out the payroll, who to write the checks to..
so when it comes to counting shekels and all.
Administration is not beyond reach, when one considers operating with less over-head..
yeah, I will attend tomorrow's Summit, if I am still sober enough, and the roads clear enough..
if it ends up being some kind a rah rah sys coom-bah.. I will really be disappointed.
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skyrider
johniam......an old post by satori summarizes and concludes an interesting perspective:
"Here are some things that occurred to me reading your post...
There were lots of good times at TWI. Friendships, adventures, great memories, some "learning," for better or worse. And there was the bad.
For some, the "baby" was the experience of living through TWI's experience for a time. We may wish to turn our backs on that part of our lives, but it's better that we embrace and understand what happened - denying neither the good, nor the bad.
For others, the "baby" is the ministry itself, the corrupt source of it all, the twisted teachings, the flawed leadership, the bureaucracy and social caste system, and Vic Wierwille who was always corrupt, along with his henchpeople who either were or became bad to join the (evil) enterprise. Some may not have clearly seen the corruption, flaws, etc., which is why they want to "save the baby" so badly.
Either perspective is accessible to everyone, though we often fail to define them, or to recognize them, in context. This causes some unnecessary confusion, I think.
oldiesman loved the experience, so much so, he forgives the enterprise. He reminds me of the assassin in the DaVinci code. It's as if the ministry gave his life virtually all of its meaning. TWI = his redemption. Where else can he go?
Others believe the corrupted root eventually corrupted the fruit, and differentiate between the quality of their initial experience and the integrity of the enterprise. Those found the experience worthwhile enough to stay until they were harmed by the enterprise, which changed their experience from good to bad.
When the experience went sour, some discovered the evil nature of Wierwille's enterprise. This sometimes tainted everything that came before it, depending upon the individual. Others blamed themselves, often because they were blamed by others, or they remain confused."
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