Most Fiery Confrontations Leveled at Dissenting Leadership

[skyrider]

By their fruit know them. The fruit of TWI leaders is that of spoiled little children not accustomed to disciplining themselves to have a moral Christian character, but living by their spoiled little consciences.

TWI always pinpointed the fruit of the spirit...

.....BUT rarily noted the works of the flesh.

Where is "teaching the WHOLE word for our spiritual understanding? Why the cherry-picking?

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

WOWSERS......adultery is the first one listed.

Looks like a laundry list of twi hierarchy!!

[skyrider]

While some might contend that the trajectory of twi is based on pfal....

Many of us would say that it dived downward BECAUSE of contentious, heavy-handed taskmasters.

The term "leadership" is, really, unbefitting to what I experienced in wierwille's corps or hq.

No surprise that martindale, geer AND rivenbark revel in the wierwille-blueprint of rulership.

What you look at, you become! What you mimic, you endorse!

Martindale endeavored to take scream-fests to a whole new level in twi.

And, let's not forget.......GEER TOOK A GUN TO A CLERGY MEETING AT HQ.

[waysider]

Twinky said:

Was it merely uncontrolled anger? Or was it in reality very carefully controlled anger, to elicit maximum stress and fear in the hearts of watchers - in case they themselves did something wrong. Perhaps it was a bit of both.

I have wondered this same thing as well.

There were many times in FellowLaborers when it seemed as if it was scripted and rehearsed. In fact, there was a specific incident, involving threatened dissolution of the program, that I came to find out, years later on GSC, was being duplicated at the same time for the Way Corps. Coincidence? I have my doubts.

[skyrider]

Twinky said:

Was it merely uncontrolled anger? Or was it in reality very carefully controlled anger, to elicit maximum stress and fear in the hearts of watchers - in case they themselves did something wrong. Perhaps it was a bit of both.

I have wondered this same thing as well.

There were many times in FellowLaborers when it seemed as if it was scripted and rehearsed. In fact, there was a specific incident, involving threatened dissolution of the program, that I came to find out, years later on GSC, was being duplicated at the same time for the Way Corps. Coincidence? I have my doubts.

For me.....its probably interlaced with a bit of both, but the nuances of trying to figure out this "inside baseball"

stuff masks the larger picture.

As twinky asked, "...was it in reality very carefully controlled anger, to elict maximum stress and fear in the hearts

of watchers".....STRIKES AT THE HEART OF TWI'S MANIPULATION AND DECEPTIVE WAYS.

If wierwille, knowingly and purposefully, used "controlled anger" as a weapon to beat more submission into his devoted followers,

then his actions were even more detestable than imagined. In my opinion....wierwille's sudden, abrupt and vehement anger was NOT

"scripted" or premeditated if the situation arose. That would be giving too much credit. Rather, I tend to think that wierwille

held this coveted, narcissist image of himself as THE teacher and anyone who sat at his feet should be eternally grateful.

Remember......Bob Richards, the Wheaties spokesman, who came to hq and wierwille gave him a public "slap-down" on his views?

[waysider]

Sunesis once told of an incident she witnessed. It seems she was seated under a shade tree with Wierwille, having a casual conversation. A third party happened along and Wierwille instantly went into attack mode, ripping this guy a new one. When he left, Wierwille smiled, made some sort of comment about how sometimes you have to put people in their place and shifted right back into casual conversation as if nothing had happened. Was it real, Was it staged? Either way, that's not a behavior you would expect of someone who is supposed to be a man of the cloth.

edit:spelling

Edited January 22, 2012 by waysider

[skyrider]

Was it real, Was it staged?

Three MAJOR wierwille-confrontations that I personally witnessed, two of which I detailed on this thread already,

......and the 3rd incident where a 6th corps grad fell asleep right in front of wierwille teaching on Corps Night

(which I've posted before)......ALL had the same result. Namely ---- Wierwille was so angry, so visceral, so

attack-mode that wierwille HAD TO LEAVE THE SITUATION TO "COOL DOWN."

Those were NOT staged.

In all my years, I have NEVER SEEN ANYTHING that compares to it. Nothing!! Nothing in human behavior can properly

illustrate what I witnessed.....it was like the sudden burst of an alligator on a wildebeest at the river's edge.

[Twinky]

From a well-known leadership epistle...on how to be a great leader of God's people:

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves...

Nuff said.

(By the by, remember: "strife" is one of the works of the flesh: Gal 5)

Edited January 22, 2012 by Twinky

[Rejoice]

Thr Namely ---- Wierwille was so angry, so visceral, so

attack-mode that wierwille HAD TO LEAVE THE SITUATION TO "COOL DOWN."

Those were NOT staged.

In all my years, I have NEVER SEEN ANYTHING that compares to it. Nothing!! Nothing in human behavior can properly

illustrate what I witnessed.....it was like the sudden burst of an alligator on a wildebeest at the river's edge.

Read the book, "Malignant Self Love"---which documents this exact behavior by extreme narcissists. The author suffers from this mental illness! http://www.amazon.com/Malignant-Self-Love-Narcissism-Sam-Vaknin/dp/8023833847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327253313&sr=8-1

[skyrider]

Read the book, "Malignant Self Love"---which documents this exact behavior by extreme narcissists. The author suffers from this mental illness! http://www.amazon.com/Malignant-Self-Love-Narcissism-Sam-Vaknin/dp/8023833847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327253313&sr=8-1

Rejoice......Exactly! Wierwille had been so absorbed in this elitist mindset of self-love that, its seemed as though,

he projected himself ON TOP OF THE WORLD.......LOOKING DOWN.

[skyrider]

If wierwille, knowingly and purposefully, used "controlled anger" as a weapon to beat more submission into his devoted followers,

then his actions were even more detestable than imagined. In my opinion....wierwille's sudden, abrupt and vehement anger was NOT

"scripted" or premeditated if the situation arose. That would be giving too much credit. Rather, I tend to think that wierwille

held this coveted, narcissist image of himself as THE teacher and anyone who sat at his feet should be eternally grateful.

Remember......Bob Richards, the Wheaties spokesman, who came to hq and wierwille gave him a public "slap-down" on his views?

Rejoice.....again, THAT is a book I should read.

Perhaps, it will "connect the dots" of impressions that I observed in Wierwille decades ago.

[WordWolf]

I agree that vpw was an extreme narcissist, in addition to sociopathic.

The narcissism, in short, says that the world revolves around HIM.

The sociopathic patterns say that others are insignificant insects and merely

things to be used, manipulated, etc.

Narcissism is what causes things like the explosion at people and storming off,

i.e. "How dare they have lives that don't revolve around my every word!"

He was pricked in his vanity and stormed off to salve it.

Sociopathic behavior is when there's things like the OTHER incidents- where he's

chatting casually with someone, suddenly verbally attacks someone else, then

resumes his place chatting. He saw nothing wrong, nor NOTEWORTHY about just blasting

someone for no real reason, since they didn't matter to him- he felt NOTHING about

them. He didn't need to catch his breath and pause to resume chatting because the

yelling was merely surface behavior, and his heart was absent from it- as it was

from the chatting. Interaction between him and other people was always some sort

of acting, staged in part, because he PRETENDED to care, PRETENDED to be stern, etc.

Since sometimes it was one thing, sometimes it was the other, you could never predict

with 100% accuracy which pathology would shape his behavior at any moment from among

the two.

[skyrider]

I agree that vpw was an extreme narcissist, in addition to sociopathic.

The narcissism, in short, says that the world revolves around HIM.

The sociopathic patterns say that others are insignificant insects and merely

things to be used, manipulated, etc.

Are these pathologies contagious?......like AIDS or something?

Because it seems like Cgeer has a case of these as well.

[waysider]

Are these pathologies contagious?......

Birds of a feather flock together..

[excathedra]

with my apologies, i am only posting and reading because i need a moment away from the real hell i'm going through

that said,

wierwille was insane. i told you on here many times the time i walked past him and geer and b. geer delivering puppies. apparently she did something wrong and he went FRIKKIN NUTSO -- he talked to her like she was worse than dogsheet. and there was geer not saying a word.... i guess b. deserved it

there are so many other times

when i asked him to help someone in britain (again, a geer thing) and wierwille said, "HOW LONG DO I HAVE TO SUCK YOUR WAY CORPS ASSES"?!?! what a disgusting loser

[skyrider]

Since sometimes it was one thing, sometimes it was the other, you could never predict

with 100% accuracy which pathology would shape his behavior at any moment from among

the two.

Heck.....you probably could never predict wierwille with 50% accuracy. <_<

Heads or tails?

[krys]

From time to time when either of them went on one of their famous tirades, I thought it was a spiritual takeover.

[skyrider]

From time to time when either of them went on one of their famous tirades, I thought it was a spiritual takeover.

In contrast to wierwille's famous tirades......

All those corps night meetings, when wierwille started labeling dissenting leaders as cop-outs or "tripped out"....

.....yeah, like the 6th corps Region Coordinator in the Great Lakes Area who exited in 1978/79

.....or when John R., Ambassador One pilot, left twi and returned to his home town

could it be vpw had short-term epiphanies knowing that he was becoming more ineffective with each passing day,

and more irrelevant?

[Ham]

that's about it. Sowy, the Squirrel has been very bad..

[OldSkool]

that's about it. Sowy, the Squirrel has been very bad..

ROFL!! Well that was me last night so you are not the only one who tied one on this weekend.

[Ham]

Christ.. I actually consumed two bottle of the overweight rooster..

[DogLover]

Previous poster mentioned the Twig hopper being wrecked ... never heard that...did that happen because of anger or alcohol or...what?

[skyrider]

Previous poster mentioned the Twig hopper being wrecked ... never heard that...did that happen because of anger or alcohol or...what?

DogLover.....I don't know how it happened, the reason for the accident. Wierwille was 66 years old at that time.

What I do know:

In 1983, when wierwille wrecked his twig-hopper in Ontario.....it was hauled back to hq in complete secrecy!! The front fender was bent some and the left side was scraped. A few decals had been knocked off. The guys in Flight Services, especially Jeff, were adept at paint detailing, pin-striping, leather upholstery, instrument panels, touch-up painting, etc. Therefore, the Ambassador One staffers and other insiders were designated to set up a closed-in paint booth in the OSC Warehouse and repaired it and repainted it....and added even more decals for those motorcycle shows.

Even to this day, few have ever heard about it. Kinda like a secret society......no one broke silence! No one leaked the information that the twig-hopper had been wrecked. In the aura of wierwille-mogdom, this type of incident would simply diminish wierwille's stature.

And, the mystique of wierwille lives on in the splinter groups today.

[skyrider]

I agree that vpw was an extreme narcissist, in addition to sociopathic.

The narcissism, in short, says that the world revolves around HIM.

The sociopathic patterns say that others are insignificant insects and merely

things to be used, manipulated, etc.

Narcissism is what causes things like the explosion at people and storming off,

i.e. "How dare they have lives that don't revolve around my every word!"

He was pricked in his vanity and stormed off to salve it.

Sociopathic behavior is when there's things like the OTHER incidents- where he's

chatting casually with someone, suddenly verbally attacks someone else, then

resumes his place chatting. He saw nothing wrong, nor NOTEWORTHY about just blasting

someone for no real reason, since they didn't matter to him- he felt NOTHING about

them. He didn't need to catch his breath and pause to resume chatting because the

yelling was merely surface behavior, and his heart was absent from it- as it was

from the chatting. Interaction between him and other people was always some sort

of acting, staged in part, because he PRETENDED to care, PRETENDED to be stern, etc.

Since sometimes it was one thing, sometimes it was the other, you could never predict

with 100% accuracy which pathology would shape his behavior at any moment from among

the two.

WordWolf.....imagine the polar opposites of this premise, 1) Wierwille was the "man of God" in our day and time...or 2) Wierwille had suffered from dissocial personality disorders: namely, narcissism and sociopathic behaviors.

Dissocial personality disorder

It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:

1.Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.

2.Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.

3.Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships.

4.Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.

5.Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.

6.Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.

7.Persistent irritability.

Wierwille would be an interesting case study of such disorders. Obviously, Phd's would be needed to cover the scope of this in-depth field....but even wierwille's childhood offers insightful questions.

In Mrs. W's book.....p.7 "Although Victor appeared to be a healthy newborn, his mother noticed after a short time that he was not developing as he should. Emma prayed for her baby, as her manner was. The doctor couldn't find a cause for Victor's problem; in those days people just called it "short growth." Ernst and Emma, in seeking help for their baby, called the revered minister of their church, the Reverend L. H. Kunst, to come and water baptize him. This was the best thing they knew to do, and they acted accordingly."

Furthermore, wasn't it Harry, vic's older brother, who stated that victor was lazy and would hide in the woods to avoid work? Wouldn't an introverted childhood, and birth-growth complications, only strengthen dissocial personality disorders?

.

Edited January 23, 2012 by skyrider

[OperaBuff]

with my apologies, i am only posting and reading because i need a moment away from the real hell i'm going through

I've forgotten how to type a hug, so this will have to do.

{{excathedra}}

This is a hug with two kisses on the cheek, one before the hug and one after.

*{{excathedra}}*

[outandabout]

We were in that upstairs room over the dining room at Emporia, at the start of a meeting, LCM started yelling and acreaming at some corps who WALKED IN FRONT OF THE STAGE before the meeting started.